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Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

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Comments

  • terry92270terry92270 Posts: 1,247
    They don't hide it.

    Without the ICE to re-charge the battery, significant damage can be done to it, and shorten its life dramatically. That is why the computer orders the shut-down.

    How many people are we talking about here? If a person routinely runs out of gas, our primary concern should be if they actually have enough mental capacity to have a license. :P
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    I'm in Colorado too, and in the cold, I've gone from averaging 40.2 per tank down to 34-37, depending on driving conditions. We have the special winter fuels to reduce pollution, and that always drops everyone's FE. I wish it was running at my usual 40 mpg, but I'll adjust through the winter. Plus I need to check my tire pressure because I've not done that since it got cold. If it is happening to everyone, it has to be the weather. :-D
  • I had heard that the Prius uses a "bladder" type gas tank that expands and contracts. Perhaps that is what your dealer was referring to.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I guess I believe it myself now. On my routein trip of 120 miles that I normally get 40.5; today at 22 degrees I got 37.5. Coming back I typically can get 39 and I got 37.7. It was 55 degrees on my return trip.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Now that winter is fully here you might want to take into consideration some of the following factors which can often be outside your control entirely. These generally act to decrease your fuel economy. :mad: But, hey, it's the same for every vehicle on the road as well. For some it's even worse.

    Factors affecting your FE ( and everyone else's also, btw ) in decending order of importance...
    1) Towing anything is a huge penalty possibly as much as a 50% reduction in FE
    2) Lots of weight in the vehicle, passengers cargo etc. ( EPA tests are done empty ) deduct up to 20% from your 'Norm'
    3) Short trips under 10 min - deduct 20% from your 'Norm'
    4) Snow, Rain, sleet - deduct 15%
    5) Strong head wind - deduct 10%
    6) Cold weather - deduct 5 - 10%
    7) High speed driving 0ver 70 mph - deduct 5 - 10%
    8) Many starts from a dead stop ( going from stop sign to stop sign to stop sign ) - deduct 5 - 10%
    9) Terrain - fortunately 'what goes up..' usually this balances out on a RT
    10) Winter fuel - deduct 2 - 5%
    11) Low tire pressure - ? How low

    Now these are cumulative, so short trips with a lot of stops ( -20% )( -5% ) in winter ( -7% ) on slick pavement ( -15% ) can result in as much as a 40 - 50% loss from your personal 'Norm'. The bright side of this is that your 'Norm' is higher than most others at 39 mpg. If your Norm was only 26 mpg for example you might expect to get 13-15 mpg.

    This is really really important when you consider how much more fuel you use in cold weather but also how much less you use relatively to a an ICE-only V6 driver. ( See below )

    TCH 'Norm' @ 39 mpg uses 25.6 gal per 1000 mi driven
    TCH 'Winter' @ 25 mpg uses 40 gal per 1000 mi driven

    ICE 'Norm' @ 26 mpg uses 38.5 gal per 1000 mi driven
    ICE 'Winter' @ 15 mpg uses 66.7 gal per 1000 mi driven

    In 'Normal' driving an ICE driver will only use about 13 gal more than a TCH driver for every 1000 mi. In 'Winter' however, that ICE driver will now use over 28 gal more than a TCH driver for the same 1000 mi.

    Enjoy your hybrid. It will be Spring soon. :shades:
  • I have posted here before complaining about my TCH's low fuel economy. Back then I have only used the chippest gas (87) and my tank avg was ranging from 34-36 mpg. Last week, because of the storm in seattle area the only available gas they had at the gas station(shell) was the highest octane gas (i'm not sure if it was 95 or 93????). With the same road condition and driving style, now the computer indicates the tank avg of 42 mpg .
    I don't know if someone already have talked about this but yeah,,,try the higest rated gas if your car gives you less than 38 mpg and let me know if it improves it. :)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    That's a good new number, and I'm really happy for you. I wish I could get that number out of MY TCH !!!

    But back to reality: there is not an iota of scientific evidence that higher octane gas provides higher MPG.

    If there was, then everyone would just use 95 or 93 octane and the 86/87/89 would just stop being made.
  • yeah i too was the one who kept telling people how octane gas rate has nothing to do with the FE. so i have never ever used other gas than the chippest one unless it is recommended by the manufacturer.
    from 35 to 42,,,this didn't happen slowly over long period of time. but over just one gas tank.
    i'm going to experiment more. so this time I will use 87 again and see what MPG i get.

    Question for those who get better than 42 mpg; what type/rate of gas do you use?
  • My best in town mileage is 30.
    In warmer weather, I was doing closer to 40.
    A lot of the gas we use here is 10% ethanol which drops mpg, too.
    I'd like to know if anyone in the midwest with my winter weather conditions and fuel blend is doing 40 or more.
    If they are, I'm doing something wrong.
    Thanks.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    i can see an ICE engine losing maybe up to 20%, but not 40%, like the example provided. i'll just say i have never experinced such a drop in mileage in any vehicle i have owned.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • I did try using high-octane fuel twice. Once was in summer, and the second time in the fall.

    The results were similar : a 4% improvement in fuel economy, but a higher cost per mile. So I will stick to standard fuel.

    The explanation for the higher mileage with high octane is a known scientific fact : Higher octane allows more spark timing advance (automatically performed by the ECU), wich improves energy efficiency.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    On my routein trip of 120 miles that I normally get 40.5; today at 22 degrees I got 37.5. Coming back I typically can get 39 and I got 37.7. It was 55 degrees on my return trip.

    Update: Took the trip again for Christmas. Different variables. It was 45 degrees, 750 pounds of passenger and a full trunk. Going down I drove 80 to 85 (it has been some time since I've done this. I averaged 32.5 mpg (this is the trip portion I can average 40.5 mpg in warm weather, driving under 70). Conimg back, about the same same variables as going down except I drove 75 on cruise and I got 35 mpg. The difference in 75 and 85 mph is very significant.
  • The difference between 75 and 55 is also very significant, and those of us who are concerned with saving fuel, along with getting better gas mileage, don't need to be driving 85 mph. Doesn't make sense to me to be concerned about getting better mileage or concerned about fuel supply and demand (thus prices), and then drive at 85.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I think you might be surprised. I certainly was. With the new fuel consumption graphs in the hybrids it's very very easy to measure specific situations for even limiited durations. Having driven normal ICE's all my life all I had to go by was a tank average at each fillup.

    Most times the tank average would be 32-34 mpg but sometimes it would be 27 mpg. There was no way to identify why one tank might be lower than another. now with the Fuel Consumption graphs this can be measured and quantified even for limited durations.

    This Fuel Consumption graphing would be very very useful in every vehicle. It would show clearly the effects of different conditions and different ways of driving.

    You may be right about ICE's being affected somewhat less by these conditions. But any estimate is an SOTP one.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Lessachs:

    Did you mean to say,

    "my best in town mileage is 30 MPG" ?????

    In a 2007 TCH, you are only getting 30 MPG in city driving? On dry roads? At speeds of 25-45 MPH?

    That cannot be true, or something must be wrong with your car or the air in your tires must be about 20 PSI.

    My 61-yr-old mother was here last month (who had never before driven a hybrid and is not a slowpoke per se) and she drove my TCH in Phoenix city driving and her lowest for 140 miles of driving was 35.3 MPG. I had to wonder how she got that bad of mileage, because I would have to drive like a maniac to get below 35 MPG.

    If you are getting 30 MPG in the above conditions (dry road, speeds of 25-45 MPH, and tire are at least 32 PSI) then one of two things are happening:

    1. You are driving the car too fast and too hard.
    2. There is something wrong with your car.

    There is no other explanation. Getting only 30 MPG in a normally-performing TCH is almost impossible.

    PS I thought of another possibility. If you are in REALLY COLD weather, and all your "in town" trips are 5 miles or less, you could probably do as low as 30 MPG because the car is never getting heated up enough to use the HSD system properly.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    and those of us who are concerned with saving fuel, along with getting better gas mileage, don't need to be driving 85 mph. Doesn't make sense to me to be concerned about getting better mileage or concerned about fuel supply and demand (thus prices), and then drive at 85.

    Not everyone on this board would agree with you. I have an overall average of 39.2mpg, so I'm doing my part. I typically drive under the limit. However on this trip I wanted to make some time. Gettin 32 mpg is still doing my part as my last car, Infiniti FX45 would have gotten about 15 mpg driving at that speed.

    Then again, and I've said it in previous posts, I'm not an environmentalist, although I don't mind that my car is better for the environment than most, I simply wanted to save money and at the FE I'm getting and the tax credits I've gotten, I've more than exceeded my expectations.

    While I do most of the time, I don't plan to drive under the speed limit all the time to obtain maximum FE numbers.
  • I live in the Chicago area and I've about 5000 miles on the TCH since August. My 'warn' weather average is about 35 and my 'cold' weather average is about 32. The gas mileage is terrible when the trips are short, I suppose the ICE has no chance to warm up.

    I get better mileage than my wife. I made a 50 mile trip on 12/24 when the outside temperater was between 40 and 50, and I average over 40 with about 75% highway.

    I'm happy with the gas mileage and I can understand the gas mileage may fluctuate due to driving condition.

    I don't think your car is doing anything wrong.
  • I must point out to larsb that the sort of city you drive in makes a big difference.

    I remember driving around Phoenix and I wondered about how relaxed a drive it was. Synchronized traffic lights, miles between them, no starting, stopping nor racing for the next green.

    In Montreal, I regularly drive 15 miles to a downtown customer's. On some days, I get 38+ mpg, while on other days I only get 25 mpg on the same course (all numbers are US mpg). All this because of stop signs and traffic lights.

    Since I've had my TCH, I even changed some of my routes to save up to 40% in fuel. My tire pressure is 36-38 psi.
  • Yes. I meant 30 mpg in town.:cry: Most of my trips are short..less than 5 miles to and from work. Tire pressure is 34. I changed to synthetic oil at 1500 miles. My driving sytle is average. I'm taking the car to the dealer tomorrow to make sure everything is o.k.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Youre not doing anything wrong it's just the short trips and the physical environment that's doing it. Relax and enjoy your new vehicle. It's worse for others. :shades:
  • Did anyone buy an extended warranty with their Hybrid, Im picking a fully loaded Camry up tommorow and want to know if anyone thinks it worthwhile to do the extended warranty -0- deductible takes warranty to 7 years 100,000 mile bumper to bumper
    Any comment greatly appreciated please reply to:
    [email protected]
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    The warranty that comes with your hybrid Camry covers:

    Hybrid system - 100K/96 months
    Powertrain - 60K/60 months
    Corrosion - 60 months/unlimited miles
    Emission comp - 80K/96 months
    Restraint sys - 60K/60 months
    Basic - 36K/36 months

    The hybrid battery and emission sys warranty is longer if your vehicle is bought in a state with Calif's emission system.

    It seems to me that the risky stuff is well covered already. I didn't buy one. Extended car warranties are generally the most profitable option sold by dealers. I've never bought one and over the years have saved more than enough to now pay for any possible post-warranty repair and be money ahead.

    Good luck. You're getting a great car.
  • An extended warranty on a Camry would be a waste of money.
    These cars are built to run forever. Don't do it. For more support check out Consumer Reports opinions of these ripoffs. Enjoy your car.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    That's a pretty broad comment to realistically apply to everyone buying a Camry

    I don't have an extended warranty, but I don't consider them a waste of money for many people. There are many that might prefer to finance a warranty at $16/month than to take a chance having an unexpected $3000 repair at around 80,000 miles. $16 can buy a lot of peace of mind. Not everyone is in the situation where choking up $3000 would be easy. There is still toooo many things on this that are expensive to fix and I'll be surprised if Toyota has a 100% reliability record in 4 years.

    I'm hoping my Toyota is as dependable as you think, but I would imagine there are many people that indeed need costly repairs. If not then I would think that my dealer would have nothing more than a drive through oil change facility out back.
  • Quote directly from Consumer Reports auto section:

    "What you should do: Consumer Reports does not recommend buying an extended warranty unless the car is particularly trouble-prone. Most basic warranties are sufficient, covering at least three years or 36,000 miles."

    Didn't mean to sound too sharp in my comment.
    It's ok with me if people are more comfortable with an extended warranty but for a Toyota Camry, I think its an unnecessary expense.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I've never needed one as I seldom keep a car more than a year and a half. However I drive 30,000 miles a year and I plan to keep the TCH long term. Even in my financial situation the thought of $1000 for 3 full years of assurance looks reasonable.

    If it were not for the longer term drivetrain warranty I wouldn't even hesitate and would buy it
  • gampagampa Posts: 78
    Well... I did buy the extended warranty for the Hybrid... first one I ever bought. Is it a waste of money? ... I'll let you know in seven years!
    I figure the $600 I paid... gives me the peace of mind for four years after the 3yr/36,000 original ends. Thats $150 for each of the fours years.
    Its transferable to the first sale for $50.00 transfer fee.
    so thats a selling point.
    There are just too many things that could go wrong in this complex car... I don't want to pay for those repairs... since I will probably keep the car for the seven years

    Good luck on your decision.

    Gampa
  • I average 28 mpg US around town which is a combination city street and short freeway hop in California. Dealer told me I would average 36 mpg. On board readout said 24 mpg after about 1000 miles. So I complained. Sales guru at dealer show some things about driving a hybrid, and demonstrated coasting. So I did those things, but found it hard to coast uphill.Got average up to 28 mpg city. See Steve Young on TV claiming it gets 40 mpg. I am getting the distinct feeling of razmatazz. I know some say so what, still gets good mileage - but that's not what I bought. Nice car but not sure I would have this car if Toyota and dealer were honest. Anyone else feel the same way I do?
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    We just returned from a 650 mile trip that consisted of about 500 hwy miles, the rest city. Mileage: 39.6.

    Yes, where possible I follow the coast recommendation, when I can see ahead that traffic is slowing or coming to a stop. It works. Very short, 2-5 mile, cold weather trips reduce my mileage to 34-35. I expect that will improve with the weather.

    In general, I'm pleased with the car.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    OK wvrsmith, let me attempt to help you understand why your mileage is what it is......:D

    The Toyota dealer did not lie to you, and neither did Steve Young. There are people getting 40+ MPG in the TCH - it is possible. But there ARE issues that cloud the whole truth - read on..............

    Number one, I don't know if anyone told you yet, but the current EPA test is FLAWED and is going to me modified for the 2008 model year cars. The old test, the one which rated the TCH at 40/38, does not take into effect modern day 2007 driving habits and speeds. It does not take into effect cold engines and short trips. It does not take into effect use of the air conditioner. The test also gives hybrids an unfair "boost" because it allows the hybrids to use the electric battery system in a way which is advantageous to the test results but not reflective of what REAL drivers get in the REAL world.

    That's why they are changing the test. The 2008 cars will have much more realistic EPA estimates on the stickers.

    Now - me personally, I have owned my TCH since last June, and after 19 tanks I am averaging 36.1 MPG so far, with a low tank of 32.77 MPG and a high tank of 40.6 MPG.

    I know how to drive a hybrid for max mpg, as this is my second hybrid car (my first being a manual tranny 2004 HCH) and I have absorbed a lot of tips and tricks into my driving habits. My commute is short and not conducive to high numbers, so I am at a disadvantage for trying to get 40 MPG every tank.

    If you WANT to learn how to drive your TCH for max mileage, and it DOES take learning new techniques and the desire to achieve the numbers, then you CAN do it, assuming your commute is favorable. Sounds like it is, because personally I think the only "bad" commutes for a TCH would be two hours at 75 MPH or a five-minute drive at 35 MPH.

    So look around, visit some hybrid sites, and use the instrumentation in your TCH to help you figure it all out.

    And it you want to get 40 MPG without learning any tricks, then go trade your TCH on a Prius and get the $249 a month lease and drive the Prius any old way you want and you will still get over 40 in that car....:D

    Good Luck....
  • grggrg Posts: 15
    I am not sure where you live, or how cold it is there, but I think there is hope for you once the weather warms up. I got my TCH in August and when it was warm I got as high as 42 mpg on a tank and as low as 38 mpg but I was "trying" in town. Now that it is colder, I get 34 mpg on average. I live in Colorado.
    g
  • faldocfaldoc Posts: 84
    I drive a lot of highway miles and average pretty much 39 mpg. It is slightly less in the winter, right at 40 in warm weather. Around town it goes down to about 34 mpg. I have 17k on the car in 6 months. I found that doing all the tricks gives me 1 or 2 mpg, but I got tired of driving like a grandpa so I just drive it normal, use cruise control as often as possible, and that's it.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    There is a topic thread on tips on Edmunds.

    I'm averaging 39mpg after 18,000 miles. Trips 37 to 30, rural driving 39+mpg. I don't have to drive in congested cities though.

    Winter driving is down for me considerably around 35.5 to 37 but I don't drive it in the snow so it will get fewer miles over the first few months of the year.
  • We probably have the worst MPG from what I seen on the forum. Our MPG has dropped down to 26 MPG (from 29 in the summer) since we hit 5K in Dec. and using winter formulated low emmissions 10% ethanol fuel. It is driven in LI NY. Our trip consists of extremely short trips typically < 5 miles/10 minute trips with temperatures in the 20's. As a comparison, a co-worker of ours get 33+ on 40 minute trip to work.

    In comparision our other car with a EPA rating of 19 get 13 in identical driving.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    In comparision our other car with a EPA rating of 19 get 13 in identical driving.

    It's all relative. EPA ratings can't possibly cover all driving conditions. I get 39 but I don't have to drive it to work.

    30% less gas rather it's going from 13 to 19 is still 30% less gas. It's still nice to know that if you do escape LI you can get in the 30+'s
  • I do very short trips in cold weather. My average: 24mpg.
    I had the dealer check my TCH out. He said eveyrthing is fine that a 30% or so drop in mpg is to be expected. :(
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I had the dealer check my TCH out. He said eveyrthing is fine that a 30% or so drop in mpg is to be expected

    True, but I'm guessing much of your problem is the short trips and you won't be hypermiling even when it gets warmer. Were it warmer this would still put you at or below 30mpg. Possibly not bad for your particular commute. Still with some practice and "hybrid driving" miles under your belt I see no reason to not get 35+ on normal driving.
  • plknjplknj Posts: 121
    Wanted to say 'Thanks' for your tips. I was averaging 33-34 mpg on a 100 mile a day drive. Everything you said is true... went to a couple of hybrid sites and had to learn how to drive at 54 years old! But it works and it slowed me down a bit... I am finding driving more relaxing and am getting 37-39 mpg in cold weather. My only complaint is that I wish the hills I have to travel were flatter... but I guess I can't change everything.
  • Thank you. When I got the car in November and the weather was warmer, I was doing 32-35 mpg in town. I'm hoping for the same this Spring. BTW, I had debate with a co-worker about using high octane fuel. I put in a tank of 93 octane and true to eveyrone's advice on this blog--it didn't make a bit of difference. :D
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    You are welcome, and keep up the good numbers !!! Good job !! :shades:

    Cruisin' In EV Mode,
    Lars

    PS Lifetime on my TCH after almost 10K miles is 36.2 MPG.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I had debate with a co-worker about using high octane fuel. I put in a tank of 93 octane and true to eveyrone's advice on this blog--it didn't make a bit of difference.

    You'll find many that will argue with you about that. I'm not one of them ;)

    It's a waste of money.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    PS Lifetime on my TCH after almost 10K miles is 36.2 MPG.

    I'm at 19,500+ miles and winter driving has my lifetime down to 38.9 mpg ;)

    Gas prices are just starting to rise fast again so I would expect to see more interest.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Just saw on the "other" site a link to an article about the 2008 EPA ratings. The TCH drops from 39 to 34 mpg. It makes a fairly big deal out of the hybrids not saving near as much gas as they tout. However as you read down there is a chart showing other vehicles and the ICE only vehicles also dropped 10 to 12 % as well. No big deal, my overall savings from a 39mpg average dropping to 34 mpg is still a lot better than a 12% drop in a 16 mpg rating vehicle.

    Any way I feel really good as I'm averaging 14.7% higher than the EPA 2008 rating. I looked at the F150 and the one I traded got 25% LESS than even the new 2008 rating. All things being equal, I'm guessing real world numbers for hybrids will pass the test of time.

    Now that gas hit $2.50 again, I'll have to laugh when the EXPEDITION (that's what I drove as a daily driver) drivers tell me I'm not really saving that much by driving my TCH.
  • Latest from federal DOT:

    New MPG Estimates May Cause Confusion for Some Consumers



    New 2008 model year vehicles will be the first to use EPA&#146;s newly revised MPG estimates and, although it&#146;s still early 2007, many of them are already arriving at dealerships. The new ratings are designed to provide more-realistic MPG estimates by factoring in air conditioning use, colder temperatures, higher speeds, and quicker acceleration. Therefore, new tests will likely lower the MPG estimates for all vehicles. This is a welcome change for consumers who felt the old estimates were a bit optimistic, but the new ratings will make it difficult for car buyers to compare 2008 vehicles to those from previous model years tested under the old rating system.



    Www.fueleconomy.gov has developed a tool to help consumers compare the old and new MPG estimates (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp). Consumers can simply select a pre-2008 vehicle and see what its MPG rating would be under the new system. It also shows real-world MPG estimates for many makes and models provided by other drivers.
  • plknjplknj Posts: 121
    Again, I am new to hybrids but looking up EPA ratings I came across the EPA Air pollution score site... follow this link: http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/midcar-07.htm . Really interesting information about every car, regarding air pollution and green house gas scores.
  • I was very disappointed with the new EPA ratings. It does NOT represent true life mileage. They merely applying some equation to the prior City & Hwy numbers. This is proven by using the calculator on their web site:

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculator.html

    I currently am significantly under the city (extreme local) mileage on mine, but I easily exceeded all vehicles that I have owned for the highway, even when I go 65 mph with A/C on.

    Although it may not be practical, they really need to drive the car where the true vehicle load with the wind drag is used.

    AC
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    I never thought the usefulness of mileage estimates was their ability to accurately predict what mileage drivers might expect. There are too many different driving environments and driving behaviors for that.

    As long as the measure is consistent, the value is in comparing one car to another. It worked reasonably well until the Prius came along.

    One EPA spokesperson on TV said on a change was needed "to reflect the changes in how people drive." In the background cars were lined up at a stop light. When the light turned green the sound of squealing tires got the point across.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I was very disappointed with the new EPA ratings

    Bottom line, what does it matter? They were off before, they'll be off this time as well. Too many different terrains, driving styles and habits to figure in. It's all relative and as long as everyone realizes that then it simply is nothing more than what it was intended to be and that's a guide or estimate. Most people know if they drive hard or easy. In this case I believe the TCH estimate will be easy for anyone to achieve. However we still have a lot of posters getting below 30 mpg.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    They are off this time (as they are ESTIMATES) but the new test is MUCH MORE REFLECTIVE of how people drive. The old test was just stupid.

    At least now cars are not going to leave owners screaming "What about the EPA STICKER mileage, huh?!?!?!? Why am I not getting that!?!?!?!?"

    Much better than the old test.

    By the way - my TCH mysteriously did not lose a single MPG after the new tests were announced - I was getting 36.2 the day before and am still getting that the days after....:) :shades:
  • I just picked up my new 2007 Camry Hybrid last weekend! I love the car so far. It's more luxurious than I expected. I was afraid I would be longing for a Lexus, but this is by far the nicest car I have ever owned, including an Acura I used to drive. I think it's actually the perfect car, given the balance of luxury, economy, and price.

    Anyway, on to my question. I have been resetting my mileage on the touchscreen fairly often, just to see what kind of mileage I get for a particular trip (I'm practicing to see if I can improve my driving skills to get the best mileage possible). In addition to this setting, is there another mileage indicator that I can access that would be tied to either of the trip counters (A or B), or one that I could access when I refill my tank? If not, then I guess I will have to avoid resetting this the next time I fill up in order to see what my mileage really is for a whole tank of gas (Of course I know I can calculate the mileage manually, which I will also do).

    One more question: Do most people refill their tanks when the low fuel indicator comes on, or do they wait until the estimated miles remaining is almost to zero? I was always afraid to wait too long on my previous car since I was never quite sure how much gas was left in the tank, but I'm hoping that with the Camry Hybrid's estimate on fuel remaining, I can use up almost all of the 17 gallons before I fill up.

    Thanks!
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