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Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

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  • umpire63umpire63 Posts: 19
    The last two tanks have been 37.9 and 39.8, respectively. I am finding I get much worse mileage in town (around 35 mpg) than on the highway (around 41 mpg). I'm going to have to learn how to drive in town.
  • primo2primo2 Posts: 31
    i have not been able to get better mpg in the city than on the highway...have been trying all the tricks...still getting around 37 in city and 42 on highway...which is good, since i do more highway than city driving
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I think virtually everyone is getting better hwy than city mileage in the TCH.

    I'm not sure what that says about the 4th generation HSD system. Have they scaled back the EV mode scenarios so much to protect the longevity of the battery? Or is the 3300 pound TCH just too heavy for the battery to be used effectively at lower speeds?

    Very interesting development which provokes questions.....:D
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 8,882
    I deleted the last post here which directed personal comments at another user.

    These forums are not the place to fight out personal disagreements, or hurl insults.

    If you find yourself about to make such a post, please don't.

    Edmunds Moderator

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  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    OK Max, where do you get this stuff?

    even with the whole $400 tax credit you can't break even It's a $2600 TAX CREDIT

    Oh yeah and you'll need to replace the 4 batteries at least once $4000 a piece No reason to believe this or that they will be that expensive when and if a replacement is ever needed.

    Hybrids run 4 to 5 thousand dollars more than normally aspirated counterparts Past posts show a similarly equiped Camry is within spittin range of a TCH.

    Over 80K the batteries are the OWNER's responsibilty 100,000 or 150,000 depending on where you live

    Also your car insurance goes up as well ,Your comp and collison avg 20% higher Mine went down.
  • sibbaldsibbald Posts: 106
    I have a story that will probably fit in quite well at this point. I am a 2007 Hybrid owner with 5,700 km on a car I totally love. It has exceeded my expectations in mileage and I appreciate all of the extra's you do not get in the base model. Anyway, we have a couple of taxi companies who are using the Prius and have done so for several years now. The first ones have more that 250,000 km (150,000 miles) on them. The owner I talked to said that they are no longer purchasing the extended warranty because there has been zero problems with the hybrid technology, or the car. In fact, Toyota of Japan has just bought back two of the high mileage taxi cars from my area for an engineering study.

    This is so good, the owner who took a risk, purchased a Prius a few years ago, put a quarter of a million kilometers on it (without battery or other probems), just got a brand new Prius from Toyota as a trade for his old one. This is a true story in British Columbia Canada, I was told that Toyota purchased back a total of 10 cars with the other 8 coming from the Vancouver BC area.

    Cheers, Tom
  • I have 4000 km on my TCH and my inner city driving mpg is only 25-35 mpg, but I don't mind, because I am still saving 33% compared to my 1996 Avalon.

    I believe the payback issue needs an apples-to-apples comparison. I disliked the 4-cyl and would have bought an SE V6. Buying the Hybrid made me save $ 2,000 and I got dual-zone air conditionning, powered passenger seat, etc. The hybrid has already paid itself back. And I will get a $ 1,000 tax credit.
  • Been out traveling a great deal. That is an amazing amount of savings for that length of time, not to mention the tax savings that are upcoming. The VW Phaeton I owned was a true 'automobile' in every sense of the word and I can see why Automobile Magazine picked it over the MB S500 the year it made its debut. I have not calculated my savings, but the EPA was 22/16, so my savings over the first 3000 miles is mounting up, adding in the difference between premium and regular as you did.

    My latest tank I obtained the best MPG performance yet at 42.33 MPG. I think my coworkers miss the Phaeton to ride in, but I do not miss the stops at the gas station. On this tank I went 604 miles before refueling.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I think my coworkers miss the Phaeton to ride in, but I do not miss the stops at the gas station

    I enjoyed demonstrating the FX45 on curvy roads and my friends thought I had lost it. However they realize I have a fondness for the "different" and am "cheap" so it's probably not a big surprise for them to see me in the hybrid and for me to start "downsizing" as I approach my retirement years.

    I thought I would miss the FX but so far I have not looked back.
  • Any chance that we could get back on the topic of "MPG-Real World Numbers" here?
  • My 4th fillup in the TCH had mileage of 40.6 mpg, calculated, with a running average of 40.5 mpg for the 2200 miles I have driven it.

    95% of my driving is on the highway at 65 to 70 mph.
  • "I enjoyed demonstrating the FX45 on curvy roads and my friends thought I had lost it. However they realize I have a fondness for the "different" and am "cheap" so it's probably not a big surprise for them to see me in the hybrid and for me to start "downsizing" as I approach my retirement years.

    I thought I would miss the FX but so far I have not looked back."

    I have a FX45 that I bought new in 2003 and it is approaching 60,000 miles - have had zero problems with it. I'm considering the TCH as a third car for commuting, errands and general around-town driving, but plan to keep the FX for towing my boat and other situations where I need the extra space.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I'm considering the TCH as a third car for commuting, errands and general around-town driving, but plan to keep the FX for towing

    At the risk of offending some with an off topic comment, I went ahead and traded the FX because I couln't justify a third vehicle expense just to have the FX for "Sunday driving". I have an SUV for towing and winter weather and while the FX could have performed those functions, the 20 wide tires didn't lend themselves to good winter driving and as I really didn't want to have this as my tow vehicle (I tow a tractor as well as dual jet skis). I decided to keep my fleet at 2 vehicles.
  • Forgot to mention also that my daughter will be driving on her own in a few months, so a third vehicle will be more convenient. If it was just my wife and I, we would stay with 2 cars.

    I haven't test driven the TCH yet, but from all reports it's a very safe car and should be a little easier for a teenager to handle. It's a little more compact and not TOO fast, plus from everyones' comments it seems to encourage judicious use of the gas peddle...

    P.S. to wvgasguy: I have an extra set of wheels/winter tires (18") and the FX handles great in the snow here in Minnesota!
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I haven't test driven the TCH yet, but from all reports it's a very safe car and should be a little easier for a teenager to handle

    It's got a lot of safety features to make you feel better with her on the road AND being a teenager her friends may think it's cool to be GREEN. She may take an interest in "learning to drive" a hybrid and really save you money (say over the Mustang, MonteCarlo SS and 300ZX I had my kids in)
  • I was wondering if any owners have driven their car fairly aggressively and/or in real bad traffic conditions over a tankful - what would be the worst mileage one could expect to get in a TCH?

    P.S. Thanks wvgasguy - I would only add that she's mentioned a hybrid several times, but she's also eyeing any and all BMW's that we see on the road. To which I respond, like, I'm sure she's going to get one of those! ;) (the first car I ever bought with my own money was a '67 BMW 1600 - don't remember what kind of mileage I got, back when gasoline sold for 35 cents a gallon, but I DO remember how much parts cost when something broke!) :mad:
  • I don't drive agressively, but keeping up with traffic and dealing with all the red lights in Montreal can cost me more than 9 l/100km (25 m/usg - the small display stops there) on some trips, with an average at 8.3 l/100km - 27 m/usgal.
  • I've been using my TCH as a daily commuter; 32 mile roundtrip of city or (mostly) stop-and-go freeway. First tank average of a little over 36 mph. On my third tank right now, and right at 38 mph. I doubt I can coax much better out of it. That's still 50% more than my old 96 4-cylander Camry LE.
  • jbolltjbollt Posts: 737
    Just back from a trip from Tucson, AZ to San Diego (labor day weekend)...I averaged 39.6 mpg going westbound, which includes elevation changes from 2800 ft, to (minus)-200 feet to around 5,000 feet and back to sea level. Average speed 75-80mph, A/C on constant... ECO mode, recirc, set at 74 degrees. Temps in the desert were over 105 degrees...in the San Diego area, low 80's. Always nice and cool in the car.

    While in CA, we took a short day trip up to Monterey Park, a suburb of L.A. (shudder! sorry, Angelinos, don't have much use for L.A.) and back to our accomodations in S.D. This portion of our long weekend trip included part freeway, 70 mph, part PCH (Pacific coast highway) 45 mph, with stops in Laguna Beach, and Newport Beach, and then surface streets 30-45 mph w/lots of traffic lights... about every 1/2 to 1 mile from Newport Beach to Monterey Park... and then 70 mph freeways back to S.D. All with the use of A/C. It was in the mid 90's away from the immediate coast in so cal. This leg of our trip returned 41.0 mph.

    The return trip from S.D. to Tucson, again all freeway, and 75-80 mph with A/C and cruise control set, yielded 36.9. I figure there might have been some headwinds, and it was basicaly "up hill" overall, as S.D is sea level, and Tucson is 2800 ft. Again, the same elevation changes, 5,000 ft mountain passes, and below sea level in El Centro.

    Overall, I am extremely pleased with the performance, and fuel enonomy of this Hi Tech vehicle.

    Oh, btw, the climb from below sea level to 5,000 feet, includes a very steep climb out of the desert. Using cruise control on this grade, all of my previous vehicles would shift back and forth (as far down as 3rd gear in my 05 Highlander 5 speed automatic 3.3LV6) "hunting" for the right gear, and the speed would vary by up to 10 mph..... The TCH just smoothly maintained the pre-set speed, without any drama. SWEET!

    And the sound system is incredible! iPod allowed no commercials, a fabulous sound.

    When can I take another trip?
  • I'm not sure where to put this post or how to go about doing so. I'm kind of a dummy on these forums. I suppose someone can move it to a better spot if they want. Here goes.

    I just totaled our Honda Pilot. It was a great vehicle, and a much better value for the dollar than the toyota hylander. Loved it, and it saved my life.

    Anyways, we thought it would be a good time to step down in payments and step up in fuel economy. I am having a hard time selling the camry hybrid to my wife. She thinks it is sluggish off the line and is worried about its small size and how it would fair up against a big vehicle in a collision. She thinks the interior looks kind of ford like as well. I think she is just being stubborn.

    I know it is a big jump because you lose the command you have with the pilot. Realistically, she takes alot of small trips back and forth all over town, and it is not unusual to blow through 100.00 worth of gas in 4 days. I am trying to show her how much we can save in fuel, insurance, and car payments to justify it.

    How are people liking these? The only bad thing I can say is that the little compartment doors that click shut are kind of wierd, and maybe they lack some trunk space. Other than that, I like everything else I've seen so far.

    How about performance, handling, braking, and acceleration. Do they stay pretty tight after they brake in? What about road noise--say on a trip?

    One other question for now. What is this tax incentive you get on them. Is it some sort of a tax refund? Are they fairly cheap to insure? Adam
  • Sluggish? well, if you floor it it goes. But are you buying this for the acceleration or the economy? For most driving I have no problem with the acceleration, and I came from a Lexus LS400 which was quicker but I seldom ever used the power.

    Handling is good. But it is not a sports sedan.

    Road noise is very good.

    I am getting 40.5 mpg, mostly highway. However with more city miles you might get 32 mpg. I typically go 560 to 580 miles before filling up. I fill up with about 14 to 15 gallons.

    There is a tax credit of $2600 but you have to have the car by the end of this month. After that it falls to $1300 for the next 6 months, then $675 for the 6 months after that, if I recall correctly.

    I like the car a lot.
  • You are very fortunate to have escaped your accident without injury - the Pilot is an excellent vehicle and I can understand your wife's reluctance to step down to a sedan. Certainly moving from an SUV to a sedan will require some adjustment, but the car is hardly small and its loaded with airbags and vehicle stability and safety systems. Though its not particularly speedy, the TCH is no sluggard either (many equate its power and torque to that of a 6 cylinder). As for the interior, if you are patient you can find one nicely tricked out, some reviewers have commented on the car's "Lexus like" qualities (if thats important to you). But lets face it, these are subjective factors and not everyone (your wife?) will agree with me. Now, about your questions.

    Most everyone here likes (loves) their TCH. Keep reading the threads in this forum and at Greenhybrid.com as well. We all bought our cars with the understanding that there would be tradeoffs, and that a smallish trunk was one of the most significant.

    The TCH performs like a well-made, well-designed mid-sized family car. Its not a roadster, but again, we have accepted that tradeoff in return for excellent fuel economy, a high level of comfort and some of the most advanced safety features on the road today.

    The TCH does take some getting used to. The brakes are, well, sensitive, because they regenerate energy that is transferred to the traction (driving) battery. The CVT transmission is very smooth, you will notice this difference immediately. Like many of us, you may feel a slight shudder when you pull away from a stop light as the electric motor gives way to the gasoline engine for more power. The push-button start is a hoot and the car is very quiet. Open your window at a stop light on a cool summer night and you can hear things that in any other car an idling gasoline engine would otherwise obscure.

    As to the tax "incentives." You are referring to a one-time, $2,600 tax credit (not a deduction, but an actual reduction in your federal income taxes. However, credit will fall to $1,300 after September 30, and will be halved again at the end of the year. So, if you are serious about the TCH, and want to save some money, you've only got a few days to convince your wife. A test drive could answer many of your questions (if you havent done so already). Then, your "only" problem will be finding a dealer with one for sale. Good luck!
  • Good info. I thought the interior seemed well put together. What do you think. It seemed of good quality. We are looking at the leather. I do know that the avalon has some sort of gel filled which my wife feels is more comfortable but I had no problem with the comfort of the model I tested.

    As far as the economy. The salesman told us that it would get it's better fuel economy in town verses the highway. Me and my wife kind of looked at each other. I think he was full of something. He also said that if it ran out of gas, you could run quite a while on just the generator. I could maybe see that on a flat if you were say going across Kansas but not sure.

    This tax credit. How does it work? Do you get it back as cash on the next tax return or do you just lower your taxable income by 2600? If you get it back as cash (on top of the child tax credit that we already get for 4 kids), I think I better go snap it up.

    I was also wondering if the 4 cylinder is the same one as in the standard 4 cylinder camry. It kind of sounds like it may not even be a toyota engine which is part of the appeal of buying a toyota car to begin with. Adam
  • tsytsy Posts: 1,551
    Glad you're ok- all these safety devices are great and I'm glad they worked for you, but I always hope they're never used!

    We have a Pilot and a TCH- and while the TCH takes some getting used to, it's by no means slower than the Pilot and much more comfortable and quiet. The build quality is pretty good- about equivalent to the Honda. There are some minor squeaks that seem to be easily fixed.

    Your salesperson is correct, it's EPA is better city than highway, although I find it does better on the highway than in the city. I typically get less than EPA on my commute (lots of hills) and I find I'm averaging about 36mpg.

    Someone purposefully ran out of gas and drove a mile or so without gas- but it's not recommended and I'm not sure it's really a selling point!

    The 4 cylinder internal combustion engine (ICE) is a modified Toyota engine- don't worry, no Ford engines here! ;)

    Good luck- as others have mentioned- you only have about a week to get the full tax credit!

    tom
  • Your salesman is somewhat uninformed about the TCH, which (regrettably)is not unusual. Based on the experiences of members of this forum and others, the best mileage is achieved when the TCH is driven at consistent a 40 - 50 mph - which implies neither highway nor stop-and-go city traffic. Having said that, the EPA projects slightly better city mileage than highway.

    You cannot, I repeat, cannot run your TCH off the traction battery for any extended period of driving. The battery is not designed for this and will discharge quickly.

    The tax credit is essentially an on-the-spot refund. You deduct your $2,600, on your return, from your total taxes owed.

    The internal combustion engine (ICE) is not the same as that found on the four cylinder Camrys. Its a 145 hp, Toyota-made, Atkinson cycle engine designed to work together with the 45 hp electric motor. You can read more about it in the postings here, or go to the hybrid site run by the Union of Concerned Scientists for a better explanation than I could ever provide.
  • newcarsnewcars Posts: 103
    As others have written, the tax credit is a $2,600 tax credit. Think of it as a $2,600 "cash" rebate you will get when you file and get your tax returns back. However, also as others have written, it is cut in half at the end of this month.

    However, if you are in the Washington, DC area, my local dealer that I can pick up my fully-loaded TCH, silver, today, Friday, 22 September 2006. I really like hybrids and I really love $2,600 tax credits but I don't particularly like the way Camrys drive.

    If some one wants to make me a quick offer, they can have it.
  • To add to what the others have said: the Liquicell leather is added by the distributor and in my opinion it is inferior to the factory installed leather which comes with certain packages only. If I had it to do over again I would get the better leather. The Liquicell makes hardly any difference in comfort. I had the original factory leather in an XLE V6 07 Camry, and it felt fine to me in my hour long commute. If it is factory installed you get a power passenger front seat, and manual adjustments if it is distributor installed.

    I get better on the highway than the city: about 41 to 42 mpg highway, 32 to 35 city. You cannot run the car empty of gas. If the traction battery is run down too low it will be damaged.
  • psepse Posts: 14
    Are you kidding me? Why would someone make you an offer on a car you don't own? If you don't like it let someone else buy the vehicle who will appreciate it. :mad:
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    "Anyways, we thought it would be a good time to step down in payments and step up in fuel economy."

    A short list of vehicles for a former Pilot owner, all with lower payments and better MPG than the Pilot. (Approximately in the order I would pick).

    The 2007 CR-V. It's not a hybrid, but you would probably get around 21 in town / 27 highway (real world MPG, not EPA). Top of the line is around 28K with Nav. And it's a Honda.

    There is also the Highlander Hybrid, but they are over 30K. The Saturn Vue hybrid is due out soon (23K), and there is also the Ford Escape (27K, but I take it you don't like Fords!).

    These vehicles all have good MPG, and between 25 and 35 Cu Ft of cargo room with the rear seat up, about twice that with the rear seats down. The Camry hybird is limited on cargo space in the trunk, around 8 - 10 CU ft, as I recall (I'm sure someone will jump in with the precise numbers). I'm not sure what your cargo needs are, but it is a big change in functionality from a large SUV to a midsize sedan. You should be sure that you can live with the smaller capacities in your daily and weekend chores.

    The other thing to remember is that Hybrids do not get their best MPG if the vehicle is used for short trips in town - the motor has to warm up for full efficiency. They still do better than comparable gas-only vehicles, but they do not achieve their highest numbers in this situation.

    Good luck on your search.
  • ck90211ck90211 Posts: 149
    Adam, I have a 06 Pilot, and am getting a 07 Prius (hard choice between that and a TCH) next week. Pilot is a great riding, great handling SUV. In my opinion even better than any of the Toyota's SUV's (at least for paved road use). But best mileage you can get from a EX-L (with VCM, variable cylinder management system, that turns off 3 cylinders to save gas), is mabye 17 city, 25 highway. Not bad for a SUV, but in a TCH, you are going to double that easily in the city. And in a Prius, you may even triple that. So that $ 100 gas bill is going to become $ 50, or $33.

    Safety of course is invaluable. Pilot is ranked very high (that is why we got it). But so is Camry. So I wouldn't fear too badly, especially since it has curtain bags to protect collisions with SUV's.

    Excluding gas $, I don't think you are going to save money going from a Pilot to a TCH, because Honda has some awesome leases or fiance deals for trucks. last Oct I leased my Pilot EX-L for $ 289+tax/month, nothing down, 42 months, 12000 miles/year. I don't think TCH will ever get that cheap until the next model changeover.

    So why am I buying a Prius (or TCH)? Because I want to have a car that will let me have an active lifestyle (and kids schedules) without dreading over gas costs, pollutions, and traffic (I get to use HOV lanes in CA). So what I bought is TIME and FREEDOM (of the mind), something that are also invaluable. Hope to see you in a TCH/hybrid soon. CK
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