Petroleum or Synthetic oil for my pickup truck?

135

Comments

  • erikheikererikheiker Member Posts: 230
    What you say may well be the case. It was really laziness and complacency that caused me to it. Also, I rationalized that this was just 2500 miles over the recommended change interval. Bear in mind that I was using Mobil 1, which supposedly is good for up to 25000 miles. I would never have gone 10000 miles on regular oil.
  • oldharryoldharry Member Posts: 413
    If I only went back and forth to work, I would have just over a thousand miles in three months, and when I drive more, the highway miles aren't as hard on the oil as short hauls. I use dino oil 10W30, and the least miles I've seen in three months was fifteen hundred, the most forty two hundred. Living six miles from work, contamination of the oil from short runs is a much greater worry than oil breaking down. Those of us that live close to work IMO should watch time more than miles. Synthetic would be a waste of money if changed at fifteen hundred miles.

    Harry
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    of money to change any oil at 1500 miles.

    - Tim
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    ......1500 miles took 3 months and were all short little trips that never allowed the motor to warm up. But I guess Harry already said that, Ace.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ...I'm not a believer that we should listen to the oil change people and make sure we get there at minimum of 4 times a year.

    You could change it every week....and no harm would be done...

    The newer the better right?

    I wouldn't change it at 1500 for that situation....buy hey...it ain't my truck.

    - Tim
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    year, just before it turned to sludge using Pennzoil straigt 30 wt and he got 377,000 miles before pulley broke off crankshaft. He felt using straight 30 gave him more natural crude than oil with heavy additives. Millions of articles have been written about oil changes. He thinks iam overdoing it using Mobil 1 and changing it every 5000 mi. I said, Pop, oil is cheap, cheaper than a $2000 - $5000 new crate engine. Spending $150 bucks a year changin oil/filter yourself is not too expensive. Changing oil every 1500-3000 miles is ok if you drive a $500,000 1972 Ferrari Daytona Spyder with 6 webers on top of V12 chain driven cam motor that can do 180+ on some Arizona open highway with no cars around for 50 miles.....Opps sorry off topic, back to
    topic of Synthetic or Dino juice for pick-um ups.....
  • oldharryoldharry Member Posts: 413
    Tim is right. I do change it too often, but the oil and filter cost less than a tank of gas, and I do it myself. I won't go broke buying oil.

    Harry
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    has 10w-30 at $10.40 for a case of 12.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Living six miles from work, contamination of the oil from short runs is a much greater worry than oil breaking down. Those of us that live close to work IMO should watch time more than miles. Synthetic would be a waste of money if changed at fifteen hundred miles

    Harry

    OR

    Tim is right. I do change it too often, but the oil and filter cost less than a tank of gas, and I do it myself. I won't go broke buying oil.

    Harry
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    you should bike it rather than drive it...In fact walking might be even better. Gives you more time to think of "better" responses, eh.....hehe
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    That may work on the Islands where it's nice 360 days of the year....but try that hear Pal!

    LOL

    hell...I fond myself jumping in the Ado just to go to the end of the block for Dairy Queen man!

    haha

    ...never found no girls there like Ryan though...

    ..and at least someone thinks I am right for once!

    BWHAAHHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAA

    ..and yeah....if I changed at 1500 miles....heck no would I use Mobil 1....but when I let it slide sometimes to 8K or so.....you betcha I will be using it...

    ...as for "contamination" in short runs....?>...well...that's a whole 'nother talk around the camp fire with many beers my friends.....

    - Tim
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    SHOE express, motorized Razor scooter, if larger scooter desired; VESPA, or 1958 Schwinn
    3 speed bicycle, have neighbor drop you off on way to his 80 mi commute. This will prevent severe sludge buildup on your terruk
  • erikheikererikheiker Member Posts: 230
    I also drive six miles each way to work. But there's more to consider than distance traveled and frequency of change. Synthetic flows much better during winter conditions than regular oil. Two or three oil changes a year is cheap insurance, even if it does cost me $15 a change extra for Mobil 1.
  • swampcollieswampcollie Member Posts: 87
    one thing i had heard about synthetic is that it does not stay up on the cylinder walls as well when the engine is not running. then I had a friend that switched to synthetic and went out of town for a month.. when he got back and fired up that ranger, it smoked and rattled like a diesel. we assumed it was due to the synthetic.
    I have no idea..just asking..
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    if you asked me.
  • swampcollieswampcollie Member Posts: 87
    once it warmed up it was ok... just assumed the oil ran down off the walls... the truck is fine..
  • oldharryoldharry Member Posts: 413
    I worry about contamination, so I change it more often than necessary. I never have to add oil between changes so, wholesale (I own a shop) I pay less for oil and filters for a whole year than I paid for one tank of gas a few weeks ago when the price was up. Why do I recommend changing often? Oil is cheaper than parts, if the estimate for needing an oil change is wrong.

    I do ride a bycycle, but not at rush hour on the road to town from where I live. Gas and oil together are cheaper than the ER.

    I might use synthetic too, if I lived as far north as Erik.

    Harry
  • gimpyrxgimpyrx Member Posts: 198
    Run the first,and best!
    Oil,and oil filters.
    I use amsoil 0w30 & amsoil sdf-11 oil filter,at 1,800 miles.And had tranny serviced with amsoil ATF,16 quarts pumped in with a tranny pump station at 4,000 miles.It runs sweet!
  • ncphishermanncphisherman Member Posts: 18
    what is the point of even using synthetics? It is a fact that a new Honda, Toyota, or similar foreign car has an engine life expectancy of a quarter million miles. Thats right folks, a Honda, any Honda engine, will last 225,000 miles with regular 5W-30 changed every 7500 miles. This is mathematical and this same figure has been derived numerous times by design and statistical analysts. It has to do with tolerances, petroleum dynamics, and physics- thats it.

    This is predicated on:

    1. change the timing belt every 60,000 miles, without fail. This is crucial. Change water pump with belt.

    2. use a $5 Honda oil filter or equivalent.

    3. maintain the following: NGK spark plugs every 30,000 and all the rubber parts in the engine- hoses, gaskets, and belts every 30,000 miles.

    Thats all you have to do to get 225,000 miles out of a Honda, or any Japanese engine built with the same tolerances as a Honda (not a kia or a daewoo).

    So, for the average person who drives 12,000 miles a year, this amounts to nearly 19 years of driving the same car. How many people that you know keep their car 19 years? Nobody- people use their car maybe 8 years and sell it. That means if you use synthetic, the next guy benefits from all the money you wasted.

    I have a 13 year old Honda that runs great and has always used regular oil, changed every 7500 miles. The car runs like new, but I'm tired of it- old body design, faded paint, and old, faded interior due to 13 years of sunlight.

    Conclusion: there is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in using synthetic oil unless you are the 1% of people who keep their cars for 19 years and literally the day the engine seizes from longevity.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Knowing people feel that way about it...

    I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO MAKE IT A POINT to keep using it and selling every 2 years!!

    - Tim
  • minikinminikin Member Posts: 389
    automotive design life was still around 100K mi; maybe somewhat more these days. Yeah, taking care of stuff will usually extend its useful life, but just because Grandpa accidently lived to be 105 doesn't mean most people will, no matter what they do.
    -- Don
    Btw -- Factory Honda oil filters cost me less then three bucks each @ case price. What's a timing belt? I love my Mobil One! Cheers, Tim!!
  • ncphishermanncphisherman Member Posts: 18
    You can expect 100k miles from a Chevy Cavalier, a Gmc Jimmy, or a Dodge. A Chevy Camaro with 100k is just about at the end of its useful life. The rest is just gravy.

    Hondas, Toyotas, and even some Mitsubishis and Mazdas, are at least three generations ahead of the American cars in engine design. The tolerances in these engines are 1000x closer to true than any American car. American cars are still basically unchanged since the 1960s, the only major change being a switch from carburetors to fuel injection.

    Only Mercedes have closer tolerances than the major Japanese manufacturers.

    The reason you dont keep your cars longer than 100k is because you dont know what a timing belt is. A timing belt is one of the few things that you must change before it breaks. A broken timing belt is usually the reason many Hondas dont see past 100k (Timing Belts usually break around 100k and destroy the engine).

    So, in my opinion, you are putting the horse before the carriage by using synthetic oil but never changing a timing belt or chain.
  • rayt2rayt2 Member Posts: 1,208
    only changed timing belt once at 117,000 & water pump since it's there anyway on my 91 Honda CRX commuter car. Changing every 60,000 miles is what they recommend but different driving conditions dictate when it is really needed. I still had usefull life left on it but based on my last Honda that I changed at 115,000 I figured it was time. Regular 5w30 oil works fine for me, changed every 5000 miles. Synthetic is just making oil companies richer at expense of consumer. But to each his own...... Good Luck on this one now!

    Ray T.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ....but LOOK at them man!.....don't be fooled now...use your eyes!....Tundra equals less truck for more buck...Good luck on this...

    .....errr....what came over me?...I thought I was Rube for a sec..

    Farr ahead eh?...

    depends on how ya look at it...

    I'll take my stone age 57 Chevy and 63 Vette...along with all the other classic muscle cars..throw in a 59 Caddy Convertable and a hard top convertable Ford..

    Now let't talk about them there classic [non-permissible content removed] cars...DOHHHHH!

    Ok Ok....how about the [non-permissible content removed] muscle cars now....DOHHHH

    Take your rice and go talk to someone who cares about foreign crap...

    I suppose ya like Osama too?

    LOL

    - RubeTim
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    You claim that foreign cars have tolerances are 1000x closer to true than domestic cars..

    Show us measurements and spec sheets that indicate this.. It's not true..

    You also claim that american cars are (basically) unchanged since the 1960's..
    If this were the case, then the Big3 would not even be in existance today..

    The Japanese were the first improved production efficiency and quality and that enabled them to compete very well against the Big3. That occured 25 years ago. For a short period of time (about 2 to 4 years) there was a quality 'gap'. The Big3 adopted and even improved upon these processes in order to survive.. If the big3 did not make any changes since the 60's, they would have been extinct 15years go and we'd all be driving Japanese vehicles..

    The fact that companies like Ford are still here today and strong proves you are wrong..
  • minikinminikin Member Posts: 389
    what a timing belt is; it was a joke, dude. And current Honda service manuals, at least the V-6, spec change at 105K miles.
    -- Don
  • badrammanbadramman Member Posts: 61
    My mother has a '88 Honda Accord with 160,000 on the odo. And she has never done anything but change the oil and filter @ 3,000 and put a clutch in @ 100,000 and it still runs good. The shape of the body is another story though!

    Come on, it's common knowledge that Japanese motors last longer than American ones. They just don't make any horsepower. You have to understand that the Japanese companies were built on the idea that the automobile is to get you from point A to point B needs to get 30MPG in the process. That's how they came to America in the early 70's during the gas crisis. They are getting better each year as far as horsepower goes.

    I still won't buy one though. I'm 100% American and I'll support American workers!
  • ncphishermanncphisherman Member Posts: 18
    badrammen- change that timing belt, you'll thank me for it. I support American workers....Hondas are built in Marysville, OH.

    minikin- V-6's are 105k, but 4 cylinders are 60k or 90k depending on the model.

    bess- tolerance on metal engine parts on GM cars are spec at .01". Hondas are spec at .0001". Thats 1000x closer. I'm sorry I don't remember where I read this.

    GM pushrod engines, like the 3.8, the 4.3 and the 5.7, are basically unchanged from the 1960. Of course, emissions controls have changed, and they can get a few extra horses out of these 60's engines. And of course, these are tough engines, and they can handle more abuse than a Honda engine. But they certainly don't have the longevity of a Honda engine.

    Compare a glass cup (Honda engine) to a plastic cup (GM engine). If you drop a glass cup, it will break, whereas a plastic cup won't. But after years and years of use, a glass cup will remain the same and still be useful to it's owner. A plastic cup will get shoddy and unusuable.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Is this an illustration? have any supporting evidence? or just your opinion? Call me curious.
  • bnosytbnosyt Member Posts: 23
    By the way, if those are the numbers(.01 and .0001) that would be 100X not 1000X . Is there a place where I can read about the specs being that different? I would like to see it. You were very vague about what tolerance this was.

    P.S. By the way, my father-in-law has one of those 1960's 4.3L engines in his '93 Chevy pickup that has gone just over 200,000 miles and runs great and gets 24MPG.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    He has no clue. It's just something he has "read somewhere."

    A motor won't even run @ .0001 clearance at the mains, rods, or pistons. Probably won't run very good at .01 at those areas either.

    There would of been some credibility if he'd said .002-.003 which is where most mains and rods run. Pistons are a matter of forged or cast as to where you want your clearances.

    Just another of many posts to ignore when someone thinks they have a clue.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Nowhere did I see anyone claim .0001 clearance. The poster claimed that Japanese engines have tighter clearances. You can argue that point if you want to.

    The fact is that a growing number of americans have more faith in the long term reliability of Japanese engines. I think that this is because of poor design by american auto manufacturers. Many american designed engines are designed to last just beyond the warranty period.

    Cars have become more of a commodity. A large number of americans trade their vehicles often and are therefore not interested in long-term reliability. For these people, domestic autos may be the better choice(If they don't mind taking their cars in for repair more frequently).
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    See post 129 by ncphiserman.. Claims .0001" tolerances.. And in a previous post generically claimed more stringent tolerances by japanese manufactures over domestics..

    You somewhat contradict yourself in the above post.. You claim that a growing number of americans are interested in the long term durability of Japanese engines. Then claim that a growing number of americans aren't interested in long term reliability.. You also state the first point as a 'fact'. Please present the data to support this fact..
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ...he has spewed so much crap about them Tindras...even he doesn't know what is truth or fiction.

    People trade off Domestic & Foreign cars every few years with the popularity of leases.

    There are no classic [non-permissible content removed] cars...no big [non-permissible content removed] cars....no [non-permissible content removed] cars with power.....and no good [non-permissible content removed] beer!

    ..what was the point again?

    - Tim
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    129 of 135 by ncphisherman Oct 21, 2001 (07:23 pm)
    badrammen- change that timing belt, you'll thank me for it. I support American workers....Hondas are built in Marysville, OH.

    minikin- V-6's are 105k, but 4 cylinders are 60k or 90k depending on the model.

    bess- tolerance on metal engine parts on GM cars are spec at .01". Hondas are spec at .0001". Thats 1000x closer. I'm sorry I don't remember where I read this.

    GM pushrod engines, like the 3.8, the 4.3 and the 5.7, are basically unchanged from the 1960. Of course, emissions controls have changed, and they can get a few extra horses out of these 60's engines. And of course, these are tough engines, and they can handle more abuse than a Honda engine. But they certainly don't have the longevity of a Honda engine.

    Compare a glass cup (Honda engine) to a plastic cup (GM engine). If you drop a glass cup, it will break, whereas a plastic cup won't. But after years and years of use, a glass cup will remain the same and still be useful to it's owner. A plastic cup will get shoddy and unusuable

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    What's funny is if he had said Japanese engines have tolerances that are sometimes .001 (.002 vs .003) closer than American, I might buy it. The 60's technology statement really made the BS meter go wild. The new GM V8's share NOTHING with the old 350's. Ford is all SOHC and DOHC(with timing chains I might add) Chryler has new OHC designs. Give it up Toyboys, you paid too much!!
  • ncphishermanncphisherman Member Posts: 18
    bnosyt- I stand corrected, it's 100x closer tolerance, not 1000x. Mixed up the decimals. Thats still quite a bit of difference. Some american cars get over 200,000 miles, but this is more of a rarity instead of a standard.

    modvptnl- theres no need to be rude. I never said .0001" clearance, I said .0001" tolerance on metal engine parts.

    mgdvhman- I'll put a Tundra with the 245 hp Lexus V8 in a drag race against any F-150 and bet my life savings on the Tundra.

    Tundras are the best full size pickup you can buy, bar none. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one with 100,000 miles. I would never buy a Dodge Ram with that kind of mileage.
  • eric2001eric2001 Member Posts: 482
    I will call you on your bet!!! I will put any stock F-150 lightning against any stock Tundra, and take your money.

    So sign over the accounts now!
    -Eric
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ...BWHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAA

    ...now That's what we need for old Batman!

    I wouldn't buy a Dodge either.....and how many times are we going to have the Full size VS the mid-size Tundra war?..."Use you eyes....Tundra equals less truck for more buck!"

    let's try the Ram 2500, Ford SD 250 , Chevy 2500, and the Tundra 2500.......DOHHHHHH!

    I think I'd put my money on the Ford....even not a lightning...and definitely a 5.3 Chevy VS a Tindra

    ..imagine this test with max payload?....now that would be a belly buster watchin' the old Tindra scream in pain!

    Good Luck on this one now!

    - Tim
  • ncphishermanncphisherman Member Posts: 18
    thats not a real truck- try taking that off road. I'm talking about an actual truck that has off road capabilities, not a truck with Mustang rims.

    whats next- a tundra vs. a typhoon??!!

    try a V8 Tundra vs. a V8 Ford F-150 with truck rims
  • bnosytbnosyt Member Posts: 23
    I am still curious which tolerances are that different between GM vehicles and Hondas. It is quite a bit different to talk about bearing clearances or talking about valve cover thicknesses for example.
    I also have a hard time believing there is a whole lot of difference between the longetivity of American engines and foreign engines.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Me too. However, when someone posts....I don't know where I read it....I associate that with "maybe it came to me in a dream"....same as I do with POS and FOS if you know what I mean.
  • ncphishermanncphisherman Member Posts: 18
    i don't remember where I read the article. it wasn't written by Toyota or anything, it was actually written in a statistical review. The article was about quality control, and the author mentioned that the reason Japanese engines last longer, significantly longer, on average, is due to the quality control of tolerances in critical engine parts.

    For example, if a valve is supposed to be 1", Japanese (and Mercedes-Benz) engineers will only allow .9999" to 1.0001" valves to be acceptable for use. American engineers are satisfied with .99" to 1.01". That simple fact, according to this author, is part of what makes japanese engines superior to American engines.

    If I find the article, I'll post it here.
  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    are you T.O.Y.A.

    In you "reading" did anyone think to compare like engines and materials before considering tolerances?
    The variety of materials used in engines and their
    associated thermodynamics dictate tolerances.
    Anyone that has some knowledge of engine machine work and tolerances will know that you cannot
    compare the clearance of a camshaft in a iron block versus a camshaft in an aluminum cylinder head.

    Again I see this as an attempt by the clue less to
    sway the informed to the side of ignorance.

    My last truck had 150,000 miles on it.
    Zero problems
    Could have used new carpet.
    definitely could have exceeded 200,000 miles Sold off of the dealer lot the next day.
    And it was a GMC. Made right here in the U.S.A.
    with ALL of the proceeds from the sale going to
    AMERICANS.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ....that's what these foreign buyers just don't get.......

    "but the plant is here...it's American"....

    the amount for misc parts and labor to build it is nothing compared to the chunk that is the real profit and goes bye bye...

    - Tim
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    "but the plant is here...it's American"....

    MGD - you are not making a lot of sense. Are you saying that a vehicle with an American name such as Shakerado is more American because it is built in Canada? The last time I checked, Canada was a foreign country.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    I stated that a growing number of Americans appreciate Japanese quality. I also stated that many Americans change vehicles every few years and therefore do not place a high value on reliability.

    I do not see where these two statements are contradictory.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    buyers say.....because it comes from Ohio or wherever.....falling for the gimmicks of the [non-permissible content removed]...

    and My ado came from Pontiac thank you...

    and be it built in Pontiac, mexico, or Canada.....the main profit stills goes to the USA.

    Buy your imports...love the USA less and less..when do ya move there?

    - Tim
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    See post 133, as you slightly changed your statements between 133 and 147.

    Quotes:
    "The fact is that a growing number of americans have more faith in the long term reliability of Japanese engines. "
    Next paragraph.

    "Cars have become more of a commodity. A large number of americans trade their vehicles often and are therefore not interested in long-term reliability."

    In both sentences in post 133 you refer to "long term reliability". The first implying that growing numbers americans are interested in long term reliability, the second implying that growing numbers americans aren't interested long term reliability..

    I do not find your statements in post 147 contradictory.. Although I don't know if what you state is factual..
  • badrammanbadramman Member Posts: 61
    If you want ultimate long term reliability, buy a diesel. The Cummins and Powerstroke(we won't talk about the DuraCrax) are both rated to go 300k before their first overhaul. There, how's that for durability? I got y'all beat :)
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    but you also stink up the neighborhood with air and noise pollution...........
This discussion has been closed.