Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Scott
Apparently you have no idea how to "stomp on the gas" thus you never experienced some serious torque steer. Now I understand why you think TS in a FWD is not a big deal.
Just a month ago, Lutz told Forbes "That's where the internal debate [on the Impala] is now -- no firm decision at this point, but my guess is that we will come down on the side of the front-drive car." By the time of last week's Detroit Auto Show, Lutz was telling GoAuto "I think the (Monaro/Pontiac GTO) is gone for now.... [T]hat's not the end of the market where we want to stimulate demand. We have to find ways to stimulate demand and desirability in cars that will get us closer to the 35 MPG average."
How will that be done? Perhaps by using the Alpha midsize platform and making CUV's. However, the Alpha still hasn't been signed off on, and won't be until GM figures out what -- and how many -- standards it will need to adhere to when the CAFE tug-of-war ends.
Source: Autoblog
The CTS is midsize at best but the Impala is a full-size sedan.
I never said torque steer in a FWD is not a big deal, find any post where I said that. I said that torque steer in my Azera was no big deal. Get it right.
Avalon and Camry also share platform but is the Camry "based" on Avalon?
The RWD Impala (if it happens, which is highly doubtful at the moment) will highly likely to share platform with the CTS (there aren't that many RWD platforms in GM anyway) but it's a stretch to say that the Impala is "based" on the CTS.
and they all do whether it be Azera, Avalon, Maxima, Impala etc etc.because it is simply the results of the laws of physics. Nissan products, for one reason or another, have been a champion of torque steer issues ever since the late 80s and the 190hp Maxima. My Avalon OTH despite substantailly more hp and torque, it is barely discernable - but it is there. Don't know that anybody can really contend that the TS is dangerous, and some even find it kinda invigorating. Nonetheless combine even more torque from a big ole V8, in a heavily front weight biased car all going to those same front wheels- and you are simply asking for problems.
PS If you ever get a chance, drive a little Mazdaspeed3, ~260hp turbocharged 4 banger, and a real hoot from a power perspective (sub 6 0-60s) but also a real handful if you are not expecting all the torque steer. Perhaps the ultimate 'rice rocket', but certainly not a sports sedan of any sort.
If you go back and read, I refered to the FUTURE Impala not the current one. However after a couple of other postings...it's quite possible it could be based on the same platform as the CTS or the same as the G8. Then again, by that time...maybe all of them will share the same platform. Who knows.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The ES is "based" on Camry
The Escalade is "based" on Yukon
The G8 is "based" on Commodore
The Sierra is "based" on Silverado
Get it?
No matter what, the RWD Impala would not be "based" on the CTS simply because it's not the right size.
No it isn't. The '05+ Avalon was a complete redesign. Yes it is now shared throughout the line, but was a new platform not the same one dating back to the early 90s Camry.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I am responding against my better judgment here, but I believe that poster's definition of "uncontrollable" has been identified as the fact that the car hasn't controlled the torque steer, not that the car itself cannot be controlled safely.
To all...aren't we stuck in a loop here?
Redesigned from the ground up, the Avalon now rides on a stretched version of the current Camry platform."
from Edmunds' 5-car comparison tests of full-sized sedans in 2005.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This is from Automobile mag. I read the article you mentioned above, it is probably the only article that I have ever read saying the 05+ Av is based on the previous Camry. So either an Edmund's.com reporter is wrong (I've noticed errors before in some of the reviews) or every other site/mag has a different meaning of "all new". Anyway, even if it is the same it must be highly modified as the suspension parts are all completely different and the wheelbase is at least 3" or 4" greater.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Though the current Camry platform served as the basis for the Avalon, Toyota says that the entire platform has been reworked to accommodate the longer, wider Avalon (1 in. taller, 1.5 in. wider and 5 in. longer than the current Camry.)
Oh, by the way, do you know that the current Camry is riding on a modified platform from the previous gen as well? It's typical Toyota to use one platform for 2 generation of cars, you can bet on that the next gen Camry would sport a brand new platform.
That means they changed the skin and attachment points.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I stand by my comment. And yes the 07 Camry is instead a shortened 05+ Avalon, quite the opposite what it used to be and they do share some components
, mainly in the powertrain. This is largely semantics, but if you are going to tell me that the 05+ Avalon is 'based' on ANYTHING else, then it should and would have at least some parts commonality with whatever that was - which it didn't at the time.
The Impala is based on the CTS
and
The impalas is based on the CTS platform (which is based on the Sigma platform architecture).
I don't have a problem with the later but I do with the former.
I dont' know why you think a female reviewer obviously didn't know (what) she was talking about
link title"The next-generation of Toyota's premier sedan is scheduled to appear in 2005. The Camry's older, more genteel sibling will feature an updated profile based on a Camry platform. Expected to be larger and longer than its predecessor, the new Avalon will also feature a more spacious interior. Powertrain will be a 3.5-liter V-6, which is basically a beefed-up version of the Camry's current engine. This V-6, which will probably be mated to a five-speed automatic, should be capable of at least 270-horsepower."
This next article is by two men, one of whom is an engineeer for Toyota. Would he know how the car was built?
link title
Automotive Industries, March, 2005 by John Peter
Shigeki Terashi, executive chief engineer, Toyota Technical Center (TTC), is standing beside the new Toyota Avalon, arms outstretched with his fingers pointed, like he's describing the size of the fish that got away. He's using his hands to section off the redesigned and re-engineered 2005 Avalon, showing where new technology has been added to the existing Camry platform to create the Avalon.
"He points out that from the firewall forward, the Avalon is "all new"--from the firewall to the B-Pillar, "Camry"--from the B-Pillar to the bulkhead, "all new"--from the bulkhead back, "Camry."
The Avalon also shares the Camry's shock towers and rear suspension as well as many of the underbody frame components.
"Though the current Camry platform served as the basis for the Avalon, Toyota says that the entire platform has been reworked to accommodate the longer, wider Avalon (1 in. taller, 1.5 in. wider and 5 in. longer than the current Camry.)
"The engine bay has been redesigned to accept the new V-6 engine and transmission and the rear seat area was stretched (four of the five extra inches), to create the longer wheelbase and flat, tunnel-less floor allowing for comfortable three-across seating. The rear end has extensively redesigned crumple zones and has also been modified to accept dual exhaust, a first for a Toyota sedan.
"The body uses more high-strength steel in the underbody areas and shock towers to improve safety while saving weight. The added steel also increases torsional stiffness. The rear doors have dual side-impact beams and three-stage door check rods that increase the door opening angles to nearly 90 percent.
"It's not surprising that the Avalon shares so much with Camry, as it will share the same Georgetown, Kentucky, assembly line along with the Solara. Terashi says that the next-generation Camry will use a shortened version of this platform and the new 3.5L V-6, most likely with reduced horsepower.
"Safety and Handling
The Avalon shares its suspension with Camry."
Oh, did I mention the title is Camry extra large: Toyota's "Most American" sedan finds its rightful place at the head of the family table.
Soooo, BEFORE you start suggesting someone is a "POOR MAN WALLOW IN HIS OWN IGNORANCE"...
If I understand the quote (ignorant as I am) the Avalon was based on the then current Camry chassis and some changes for Avalon found their way into the Current Camry chassis as a shortened version that's "all new" also.
Please feel free to email me with further comments, but do a little research first before you ridicule female reviewers and posters on a personal basis. I enjoy reading female reviews in our Dayton Daily News because she's less into the testosterone-challeged mindset of horsepower and size, and talks more about the cars. She works with David Mikesell of Indianapolis review fame; sometimes they both talk about the car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
There is just so much bad info out there.... the 2GR V6 is not a "beefed up" 3.0/3.3 engine at all. Not even close, its a varient of the 4.0 L V6 used in the Four Runner.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
His point is actually quite valid. You see...you jumped on me for saying that the Impala simply couldn't "share" a platform with the CTS because the CTS was "too small" in your words. Platforms can be modified for other vehicles, even if they are bigger than the vehicle it started under.
However...the statement I made wasn't really a statement, it was merely and expressed thought about one possible option. Someone else brought up the fact that the Impala could be based on the same platform that the G8 is on...which is also a possibility. I never said the Impala WOULD share (or be based on) the CTS platform, I simply said it could be. The reality is...it very well could be and that's the point that Imidazol97 made by pointing out the Avalon using a re-worked Camry platform.
Looks like someone needs to catchup on his reading skills...
Usually I don't throw stones while in a glass house, it's always some dang annoying kids who throws stones at my glass house.
You said that the CTS was too small for the Impala to be based on it's platform. Why, oh why great and wonderful Louis...can you PLEASE explain why the future Impala (if it were to go RWD) can't be based on the current CTS platform???
1. The RWD Impala can't be based on the CTS platform
or
2. The RWD Impala can't be based on the CTS but can share platform
Was it option 1 or option 2? Seriously, please stop putting words in my mouth.
The "CTS platform" is only one version of GM's Sigma platform, current vehicles based on this platforms are: STS, SRX and CTS. So since the Impala is a fullsize sedan it can't be based on the "CTS platform" but can share the Sigma platform with the CTS.
Is it clear for you now?
Okay...let's see if we can't make sense of this.
If the CTS platform exists first and it's a tad bit too small for the Impala to use as is. Then...if it were re-worked to fit the Impala, wouldn't that be an Impala "BASED" on the CTS platform?
In your own words, you basically said (when I first posted about it) that the CTS platform wouldn't work because it was too small (I dare you to go back and check that out...you DID say that). Well...with the current CTS platform having just really changed...I doubt if it would change again by the time the RWD Impala would be brought out (if it even goes RWD). Now...if they changed the CTS platform and made it bigger and it would fit the Impala, THEN...they would be SHARING platforms.
So...based on your own words, they couldn't share platforms based on what I orginally said about the FUTURE RWD Impala being based on the CURRENT CTS platform.
What was that you said about reading? :surprise:
Once again, I've said that the RWD Impala can share platform with the CTS but it can't be based on CTS or CTS platform because it is just too small. The reality is, the CTS platform is too small for a RWD Impala but both can share the Sigma platform. A CTS platform is dedicated for CTS, SRX platform is dedicated for SRX and STS platform is dedicated for STS but all 3 use the Sigma platform architecture. Do you understand now or not?
So...based on your own words, they couldn't share platforms based on what I orginally said about the FUTURE RWD Impala being based on the CURRENT CTS platform.
Where did I say they couldn't share platforms? Again, evidences please. I want to see the exact statement which I said that the RWD Impala and CTS couldn't share platforms. If you can't provide those then what you are doing is to put YOUR words in my mouth.
Once again, I've said that the RWD Impala can share platform with the CTS but it can't be based on CTS or CTS platform because it is just too small.
I'm not arguing that certain platforms may be dedicated to certain models. However...why can't GM re-work a CTS platform to work with an Impala??? Or is that what you're saying by saying that the various Caddies are based on the similar architecture? Either way...based or shared, is essentially the same thing. In order for it to be based on, it must share something in common, right?
Sure GM can re-work a CTS platform to fit a RWD Impala but that doesn't mean the Impala is based on CTS, it just meant that the two are platform mates.
ES is "based on" Camry
G8 is "based on" commodore
Sierra is "based on" Silverado
Is the Azera based on Sonata since it is built on a stretched Sonata platform? If your answer is yes then I rest my case because that just means your definition for "based on" is different than mine.
I only scanned your post because of your tone. Do some research. I'll skip your posts unless they are other than contentious.
Back to discussing full-sized cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As stated, the Azera rests on a stretched version of the Sonata platform, since it started out as a Sonata platform and they stretched it to accomodate the Azera...yeah, the Azera is based on a Sonata platform.
So, I guess...it just boils down to a definition.
BTW that would now be TWO things we've agreed on this week
In order for it to be based on, it must share something in common, right?
There are mid-size SUV's that actually use mid-size sedan platforms. The SUV has more size and room in it.
From post #5257:
I wouldn't be surprised if the future Impala would be sharing the current Cadillac CTS platform.
Scott
In theory, the CTS platform COULD be used, it just wouldn't be in GM's best interest to do so.
Thanks for the post.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Hasn't GM already started to open Buick plants in China and also built Lucerne/Lacrosse knockoffs in Shanghai? Think the Park Avenue is still available over there as well - that being a Holden. FWIU, Buick is THE car to own over there, but really, a 2 ton Lucerne with a 150hp 4 banger!!!. In any case, can export to the States be far behind ?
I wouldn't be surprised if the future Impala would be sharing the current Cadillac CTS platform.
Scott
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic