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I could care less if it has 4 forward gears. I would rather have four which are smooth and seamless than 5, 6 or 7 which are fraught with problems of driveability.
As to the issue of FWD, I prefer it in inclement weather which is frequent where I reside. What good is any sedan if you can't ascend snowy hills? If weather were not an issue, RWD is more neutral but certainly not critical.
My definition is of a mainstream large sedan since that's what the
argumentdiscussion is about...2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't think it fits anyones defintion of a sports sedan. A big engine does not a sports sedan make. There are some others such as the Holden, which might be considered a sports sedan. The Impala SS does not fit the definition, which would be a car that follows your every move, using the benchmark 550i as an example. You can get a Subaru STI to 60 in 4.8 seconds and it is much closer to a sports sedan than an Impala. Or the new M3. Admittedly much more expensive than an Impala, but then a picture is worth a thousand words.
Going 150 does not a sports sedan make.
What you're saying is that it does not fit YOUR definition.
Do you make it a habit of jumping on the gas pedal with your hands off the steering wheel. LMAO You're a funny cat.
With Hyundai creating the Genesis and already having the Azera in the large car sedment, it wouldn't do them any good to market the Sonata as a large car. However, Honda would benefit from it and then the Civic would move up to compete with the Altima and Camry...watch and see.
Hey Louiswei...give it a rest and stop crying wolf. In the real world, how often would you "STOMP" on the gas pedal (with your hands off the wheel), for the torque steer to be a real problem? Under everyday driving conditions, torque steer shouldn't even be an issue...for ANY FWD vehicle with a bit of power to it.
I did that quite often in my 330i.
Stomp on the gas with hands off the wheel, then you'll see. I know nobody drives like that but that's the only way to examinate how strong the torque steer is in your car.
If the torque steer in your 263hp FWD sedan is "controllable" then you are supposed to feel anything. In "uncontrollable" I did not mean for the driver but for the engineers.
I will put my car key on the table right now and say Accord will never compete outside the family sedan segment and to have the Civic compete with the Altima and Camry is just crazy. The large sedan segment isn't nearly as big or profitable as the midsize and compact segment as where the Accord and Civic are in right now. Why would Honda kill one of its money cows just to have the large sedan segment covered? Doesn't make any business sense at all.
By the way, with the way gas price has been going lately you can bet your bacon that the large sedan segment and even the midsize sedan segment will continue to shrink. Sooner or later we'll have the Carolla as the number one selling sedan instead of Camry.
If I get to sense torque steer with my latest 150hp Ford Fusion rental then I am pretty sure I couldn't avoid it on other 250hp+ FWD sedans.
I will give it a rest as long as no one is suggesting that a 300hp+ FWD is a good idea...
Controllable just means that it's something that can be controlled...it has nothing to do with feel.
Torque steer that is a problem would be the kind that even with your hands on the wheel, it jerks hard to the side when you stomp on the gas. I can stomp on the gas in my Azera and with one hand on the wheel keep the car straight.
The Accord could move into the large sedan segment and still be the money cow it has always been and will continue to be...by virtue of it being a Honda.
Torque steer will be present on ANY FWD vehicle by virtue of how it's set up.
Ummmmmmmmmmmm....a 300 hp FWD vehicle is already in existence and it seems to do just fine.
Oh, by the way, if a 300hp+ FWD is such a good idea let's wait and see if the next TL will retain its current FWD setup when it comes with the rumored 300hp.
If by "doing just fine" you meant the Impala SS then I rest my case...
That wasn't the point. The point IMO, and probably many others, it is not a sports sedan. It's a high powered sporty like sedan.
Also, the 4-speed has to go.
ANY AWARD to ANYBODY that is provided by a profit making organization MUST be regarded with a great deal skepticism - especially obvious when it says something equally nebulous like 'owner loyalty award' . Why don't you tell me what that exactly means because it certainly has nothing to do with the quality of automobiles? I can't draw a clearer picture.
Like CR who, of course, are promulgating their publication out of the goodness of their hearts. LOL
OK then why don't you tell me about what possible benefit CR would have to diss the Impala ( or anybody or anything else) .? CR financial statements are all available on line BTW, if you can read one you will know exactly where the money comes from (and where the money they make goes) .
And exactly in what way is the V-8 'rumble" in the SS not "properly applied?"
I guess you haven' really been following this thread, have you? The Impala should be a better car if GM can figure out a way to get enough Holden production in Australia so that Chevy can do the same thing that Pontiac is doing with the GP, putting it out of its misery and selling instead a more proper G8 GT. The GP BTW took a more aggressive approach (tire sizing) to torque steer control than the ostensibly similar Impala - typical GM 'cheap fix' but even that would indicate that even GM knows its a problem, because the bean counters are not going to allow them to be spending the money they don't have, needlessly....
Maybe someday the Impala will sell to somebody other than the rental car companies and corporations, GM will make some money on it, and improve it as it deserves. It is an icon of what the 'American' car is - even if it isn't really an American car.
Once again, if you're basing a 300+ hp FWD as a "sport sedan" then no, it's not gonna work...as I've already said a few times already. However...as a touring sedan...it would work just fine.
Just get over the fact that you've been proven wrong. Sheesh!
What does the Avalon have to do with this? Because if Accord is moving upmarket its main competitor will the be Avalon. Do you think if that's the case Accord will be able to out-sell Avalon 3 to 1?
Is the Impala SS a touring sedan? Will Nissan makes the next Maxima a touring sedan? Like I said, Nissan will not be able to out-Toyota Toyota so the Maxima is bound to be a failure if they are going to make it an Avalon wannabe. The only way the Maxima can be a success is to make it the sporty king of the segment, with that the FWD is just not going to work (I remember this is how we get into the 300hp+ FWD discussion).
So again, looks like it's someone else who has been proven wrong (as usual)...
As far as the mid-size segment...moving the Civic up to that would take care of that as well. The Accord would hold it's own against the Avalon, simply by it's solid following.
I would tout the Impala SS as a touring sedan more so than a sports sedan...that's MY opinion.
How am I proven wrong when a 300+ hp FWD vehicle exists???
Hyundai & Kia Planning AWD cars
Again, you haven't answer my question. Do you honestly think Accord will retain it's current sales figure when it goes from $26k to $36k?
If Honda moves the Civic upmarket then who's going to fill the compact sedan segment (the next hottest thing). Fit you say, okay, then who's going to fill the sub-compact segment (the fast growing segment)? So either way Honda will need a new model, if that's the case why not leave everyone in their comfort zone and if Honda really wants a large sedan (which I doubt it) then they can add a model at the top.
You are proven wrong that a FWD 300hp+ Maxima is not a good idea (which is the origin of this whole discussion).
With all the cars that Honda has...they can make it work...trust me.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh...how am I proven wrong about a 300+ hp Max? Does one exist? Has one been tried? Have you driven one to know? Oh...didn't think so. NEXT!!! :P
Add me to that list, I have always wanted Honda to offer a competitor to the Avalon.
P.S. been away on business and enjoyed catching up on this board. You guys have been busy. I was driving a Chevy Impala as a rental..... let's just say I was happy to get back into my Av
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
RWD profits the most from AWD mods and 'safety' systems such as traction control and/or stability control are more valuable to RWD layouts than FWD. In my mind, it will be interesting to see if the 'average' driver can make the switch.
Just like AWD benefitted the Lexus GS line, I think it would also bolster the Genesis as well.
Even though we were exposed to RWD, the cars we drove then didn't have the power of today's offerings. While we would have experience on our side, I think we would have some issues just with the power side of things.
A buddy of mine, who was interested in the Genesis, had the opportunity of renting a 300 while his Azera was in the shop being painted. He had the opportunity to drive the 300 on slushy covered roads and had a few experiences that left him leery of a RWD vehicle at this point.
What's under the hood should be praised. The 2.4L 4 cyclinder now gets 175hp and best fuel economy in the class; 3.3L V6 now gets 249hp with fuel economy in the top 2 I believe (maybe also first). The Azera will get second generation of the Lambda V6 family when it is due for facelift, and as promised and delivered, higher power + increased fuel efficiency.
The interior (major) revision is a welcomed addition, argubly one of the best in the class:
Call Ripley's
I believe the point of any manufacturer offering the AWD only has to do with sales and however mistakenly the car buyers are assumming AWD to be a desirable feature. Personally, I think it is generally a waste of money for carbuyers in perhaps 90% of this country.
Well...as we have already debated, it's a feature than can assist many with driving during incliment weather. The problem is...AWD provides most drivers with a false sense of security and they feel they can simply dry as they would during dry conditions.
I, personally, have yet to have a problem navigating snow covered streets with my FWD vehicles. We recently added an AWD Outlook to our garage, but that's because we take winter treks up to the mountains...I figured it would come in handy from time to time.
If you're worried about torque steer and you have a front wheel drive, simply drive backwards. :P
I would take that bet in a NY second. The fact if one lives in areas of the NE AWD makes it much easier to deal with the weather. While you can make it through the worst of conditions in bald tires, good all seasons with full AWD makes short work of any weather.
Yeah, but too bad that the same set of wheels are still doing the pulling (or should I say pushing in this case...) and turning.
My Azera does just that, it's not uncontrollable, but one better be paying attention. The worst situation occurs when pulling out to pass at 35-45 MPH - when the downshifts are complete, the car pulls hard to the right toward the vehicle being passed. Our roads around here are terrible, with deep truck grooves on rural two lanes, and maybe that added to the problem, but nonetheless, it is disconcerting.
I've driven hi -perf RWD cars since before you were born and can handle it, but drivers unfamiliar with that kind of power coupled with FWD could be unpleasantly surprised ( like my wife ).
Why? Nissan has FWD Max/Alt and Toyota has FWD Av/Cam they seem to be doing just fine. I think the FWD Impala may even stay around a little while after a RWD model is introduced because of its fleet sales.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I've seen a great deal of AWD and 4WD vehicles in ditches simply because those drivers are bit over-confident. Ice is not prejudice and if all 4 wheels should end up on ice at the same time...AWD nor traction control will help you. Same thing with hydroplaning...if all 4 tires are hydroplaning...well, again...AWD nor 4WD would matter.
For those that drive armed with patience and common sense...you're right, they can make short work of any snowy, icy or rainy condition in an AWD equipped vehicle.
Just for giggles, I took louiswei's challenge and took my hands off the wheel (wheels pointed straight) and stomped on the gas. Funny thing happened...my car pulled straight ahead and my steering wheel didn't turn one way or the other. Next time, I'll record it on video to prove it. I had to do it a few times just to make sure it wasn't a fluke or something.
also read the same thing - when the car becomes available FWIU is largely dependent on plant capacity down under. The G8 is being built there already but they are projecting enough demand that there apparently will be a limited no. of G8s shipped over here. The Impala would obviously figure to sell more cars and I guess the question really boils down to how GM will be able to produce them given that they don't have a whole bunch of money to be out building new or converting older plants.
I agree on the redundancy of the current Impala, although it is plenty big in exterior dimension it is not very space efficient interior wise. If it is a Chevy you want, then the Malibu with the more competitive 3.6HF V6 seems like a better choice. The Taurus and Avalon have interiors that blow it away space wise, as I believe a few of the newer 'midsize' entrants do as well.