Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

jimmy2x

As I mentioned before, have driven both the V6 and V8 Lucerne and while I liked the V8 better, I can certainly understand the love for the venerable 3800. It has reasonably good low end torque and like the Toyota 4Runner (my other favorite vehicle) is know to be virtually bulletproof.

tjc78

There is no doubt that it is bulletproof. I know of a Lesabre with 300K on the original engine. The entire car is falling apart but the engine is still going. I guess that because I don't put a lot of miles (my Av is 18 months old and just turned 14K) and I lease my vehicles I want the newest technology. The 3800 does ok, but in terms of power to MPG it isn't up to the task of GM's own 3.6 and not even close to the 2GR or VQ. Low end torque is pretty good but when you do rev the thing it is very rough and noisy. I had that engine in my 98 Olds 88, back then it probably was one of the best V6s available. I guess I have a hard time buying a car ten years later with the exact same motor. Although, the engine was the only thing that was ok with that car :lemon:

imidazol97

> I have a hard time buying a car ten years later with the exact same motor.

That motor has continuously been improved. The Series III has improvements over the 1998 series II version. For the folk who act like the 3.8 L is the same as the 3800 is the same as the Series II is the same as the Series III are usually trying to downplay it. I am NOT saying tjc78 did this. Others have in other forums refused to call it a 3800 because it has changed and call it the 3.8 to try to link it to its aged versions.

I do not hotrod my leSabres and I don't have to make full throttle merges daily onto nasty interstate traffic, where I can understand the fuel economy lossin lieu of horsepower and torque would make me feel safer. But my 3800's are more than adequate.

AND the H-bodies and G-bodies that have been around are often on their ownership past #2 and loads of them are running around this area.

tjc78

"That motor has continuously been improved"

I understand that is has been tweaked over the years. It isn't quite the same motor as say an '85 Regal had. However its tough to say its that improved when my 98 Olds had 205HP/220Lb and was rated at 19/29 MPG (weighed 3455)

Now an '07 Lucerne 197HP/227lb and rated at 19/28 MPG and (weighs 3792 CXL trim)

To me these are pretty identical #'s. Where were all the "series III" improvements? Was it all NVH? In all honestly I didn't notice any difference in the new 3800 to the one in my 1998 Olds.

P.S. I use 3.8 or 3800 its the same thing. I don't do it to knock the motor. Really the same difference in calling my Avalon's engine a 3.5 or a 2GR.

newcarforme

Who cares about Buicks, Avalons, and Hyundais. Let's talk about the Taurus. Great new engine and transmission, just all around incredible car. Quieter and smoother than a Caddy.

allmet33

Because...in the end, it's still a FORD!!! LOL

thegraduate

I'm not sure what your post is supposed to mean. Nobody asked a "why" question.

ppborceb

When I was a kid, about 60 years ago, a mechanic chewed me out and said "that's not a motor, it's an engine!".
Does anyone out there share this opinion?

101649

All Ford can build is trucks and SUV's; both of which they can't give away now....They have one car that sells in America...The Mustang....which despite all their efforts, they can't produce a "muscle car" with that platform and powertrain configuration....it's still a Ford......

101649

Motors rely on an outside source for power...ie electric motor....engines produce their own power...ie internal combustion engines, jet engines, etc...

vic10

Don't mind him. If he knew his Hyundai history he wouldn't have made that comment. Per elantragtclub.com: Hyundai Motor Company was established in December 1967. The young automaker turned to Ford of the UK as its first partner to provide the requisite technology for cars and light trucks. So his beloved Azera is nothing but a Korean Ford...LOL....LOL...LOL

scbob

Sorry, that was 40 years ago and it was Ford of England, not Ford of Detroit-BIG difference. Having owned cars from both, my opinion is that Hyundai moved ahead and Ford did not. Ford concentrated on trucks and SUV's and abandoned the car market. Hopefully that is changing.
Don't forget Nissan's (Datsun) first sports car was a copy of the MG/Triumph and then evolved into the 240Z-and the rest is history.

vic10

And having driven English cars (TR's, Jag's) tacking on the word "England" to "Ford" is not necessary a positive thing....

Hyundai may have moved ahead, though one of it's main selling points seems to be $$$: You get a Camry or an Avalon for thousands less--when you really wish you could justify the price of the Toyotas. But so has Ford. The Ford Taurus today is way different from the jellybean Taurus of the 1990's. I'm not particularly a Ford lover. Drove a '98 Taurus company car for two years and it was not bad, but not great. Having driven a 500 on a business trip I can say it was a vast improvement over the jellybean. Biggest weakness was engine/transmission, so I'm looking forward to renting the new Taurus to see how it does.

The point here was that there's no need to slam other people's choices. And what drives (ahem) us toward one model or another may not be just stats.

I grew up in a family were all my uncles fought in WWII. Lost one in Germany and one in the Pacific. You didn't DARE say you were going to buy anything but American in my family. So I prefer American. My Dad loved Chrysler and now I drive a 300C which is 3 yrs. old and has been trouble free. I chose it over other American makes because, well, sex sells and it's a sexy looking car. The Hemi makes it better. You can make all the comments about reliability and durability you want. But if I had to choose between Rosie ODonnell, who is functional, probably reliable and relatively low maintenance, and Catherine Zeta-Jones who is functional, not too sure about reliable and definitely not low maintenance, I'd pick Catherine. Forgetting about the fact that Hyundai is a "foreign" car. To me, Hyundai is a Rosie. No sex. Wouldn't even have been on my radar if it was American made....

Now maybe we can get back to discussing the pros and cons of cars.....

martin22

Yes, but C Z-J is British (well Welsh). To see her at her best, go to Netflix and check out the British TV series - The Darling Buds of May.

Now, back to cars!

allmet33

And you consider yourself "thegraduate"??? A "why" question doesn't have to be asked. My comment means exactly what is stated. The post I responded to made a comment about talking about the Taurus. My response was a sarcastically laden reply pertaining to the fact that it's a Ford.

allmet33

Actually Vic10, I'm FULLY aware of my Hyundai History, thank you very much. I'm just amazed that you had to go back THAT many years to pull something out. I expected something more creative.

Hyundai is so far removed from their beginnings they aren't even the same company they used to be. Ford...their technology isn't worth putting in a Hyundai these days.

Nice try buddy.

tjc78

"All Ford can build is trucks and SUV's"

Ford isn't all that bad. They just rush things into production. The 500 was/is a nice overall vehicle and only thing I could say bad about it was the powertrain. The 3.5 wasn't ready so they threw in the 3.0 and killed the car in the process. So now they rename it to Taurus and finally give it a decent engine (which already is getting knocked for NVH, rushed also). However, what they fail to realize is they already KILLED the Taurus name selling to fleets and letting the car go unchanged for so long. The same thing is happening to the Fusion/Milan, should have better powertrain options. What about the Zephyr turned MKZ... their marketing is awful. You introduce a car(s) and change its name after only 2 years :confuse:

allmet33

I guess that's why they are offering AWD on the models you've mentioned. I mean...there aren't too many other offerings in each of the classes that have AWD as an option...for the price point they can be bought at.

vic10

Acknowledged. Actually I was anticipating some comment from our lady readers, in which case I was prepared to proposed to do a Michael Moore/Brad Pitt analogy, with of course, Michael= Hyundai.

pat

The brand bashing is not getting us anywhere helpful. Let's stick to the features and attributes of the cars and leave the bashing out of it.

tjc78

That is a good point. If you need AWD and don't want an SUV or Wagon Ford does have the vehicles for it. The Taurus does have that advantage over the others here. Other than that and the bigger trunk, I think it is tough to pick it over Avalon or Azera, because it doesn't stand out in any one area.

allmet33

Therein lies another question...is there really a NEED for AWD? I ask this in comparison to FWD. I mean...all cars I've had (save for my 86 Supra) were all FWD and I NEVER had a problem in the snow or any other incliment weather.

On the flip side...the Taurus does offer a viable option for those shopping and don't want to spend Avalon money. Also, it should keep FoMoCo types happy. I mean...it is the best Taurus that Ford has made yet (IMO).

tjc78

I agree with you on the AWD. Best Taurus yet? I'd have to go with that except when the Taurus was introduced it was ground breaking and an instant hit. The '86 Taurus was a better car for the times than the '08 is. Keep in mind too that being a large car, its not going to be a volume seller. Midsizers are where the sales are.

"Also, it should keep FoMoCo types happy"

I have always liked Fords, the only thing that would truly make me happy is a redesigned Crown Vic/GM with 300+ HP driving the rear wheels in a decent looking package to compete with the 300/Charger. Probably won't happen, but would be nice.

allmet33

It was a hit for it's time, however...an 86 Taurus would, at best, be a mid-sizer today. Granted, mid-sizers are where the sales will be, but there will always be a market for the large sedans as well.

The closest you'll see the Crown Vic come to redesign and more power was the short lived Mercury Marauder!!! If anything, some FoMoCo exec. may start thinking back when the Taurus was offered as an SHO and try to re-do the same thing with the current Taurus. Now...that's not to say that it can't be done, but a lot of thought will need to go into it.

Personally, I can't knock Ford too hard, I did own a 92 Tempo GLS with the 3.0 V-6 and it was a very capable 6 for it's time.

scbob

Actually, if we are talking large cars, the Interceptor is Ford's new entry as is the Genesis for Hyundai.
I am hopeful for both of them to knock out the Euros and Japanese with quality luxo cars at a decent price and without the arrogant dealers.

allmet33

Yeah, but how close to actually dropping is the Interceptor? At this point, it's merely a concept car, right? The Genesis is slated to start dropping by the end of this year (as far as I know).

bobber1

I'm a day or two away from buying a 08 Taurus. Imports are not an option in this decision(and I'm not an import hater as I own a Honda Odyssey minivan). I didn't like the Ford 500 much due to the small engine, but the Taurus's 3.5 is a tremendous improvement. The car is also extremely quiet on the road and I'm just amazed at how much leg room and trunk room this car has. It just doesn't look that big from the outside. It's really a great value which is the icing on the cake.

I've been a GM man for 20 years and never thought I'd buy a Ford, but this one has won me over. I agree Ford's marketing campaign has been whacked for the last 5 years, but I think bringing back the Taurus name was a good idea as it offers a lot more instant name recognition. There was a time really not that long ago when the Taurus was the number 1 selling car in the country. Not sure if the current car will get there again, but it's a define step in the right direction.

chilliwack

ahhh yes...I owned a '72 Pinto sedan...rootbeer brown...2000cc, overhead cam...holly 390 4 barrel carb...header...Baby purred like a kitten. :shades:

tjc78

Once you get your Taurus, check back in with us. I felt the same way about the 500, great car, no power. When my Avalon goes back off lease I will be checking out the Taurus or Sable.

derrelhgreen

You've made your choice but you must live with it.

It's almost too late now for any of us here to get you to change.
Please don't wish later that we had been successful.