Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Azera also looks like sonata and in fact shares engine with it
The similaries between the Sonata and Azera are less than those between the Altima and Max.
why - while they certainly have the ability to do that (because they already are) but 300hp to a FWD sedan is a difficult proposition ( as shown by things like the Impala SS etc.) . A reminder that the Avalon is a physically larger car than either the current Maxima or the Azera, and is still the quickest of the bunch - it doesn't necessarily follow that a new Maxima perhaps the size of the Avalon, needs to weigh substantially more. Therefore, if the current Max with 255hp is right on the Avalon's bumper, 270 or 280 should push (pull) it past even the Avalon. I think we have gotten to a point (HP in the mid-high 200s) that FWD becomes less and less viable in any case and very few people are going to be worrying about a few tenths of a second either way on cars that are this powerful. They are much more likely to be worried about a few tenths of a mpg, if anything. It would surprise me however, if the planned Max diesel is FWD simply because of the high torque numbers likely involved.
The problem with the Maxima pulling ahead is that it's not clear how much weight the larger size and larger engine will add to the vehicle. Will it be enough weight that pretty much keeps it on pace with where the current Max is in terms of acceleration...we don't know that yet.
Whether you get a car with 300 hp in FWD or RWD...a few tenths MPG won't be an issue. I mean...you've already said that having a RWD vehicle actually hurts FE because of the added weight of the RWD components and something about extra friction to get the power to the ground (or something like that). Well...wouldn't that mean a FWD with 300 hp would be more effecient???
Nissan should either:
1. make the Maxima RWD with 330hp 3.7 and lots of luxury features (pretty much a Genesis fighter).
or
2. drop the model completely since with FWD and ~300hp it's pretty much a non-factor with the Altima also in the lineup.
It's clear that the Maxima won't be a RWD vehicle. However, only giving it 5 or 10 more hp than the Altima doesn't make sense. Other than it being slightly larger, you're pretty much in the same situation as you're currently in with it.
If you drop the model completely, then Nissan doesn't have a large car to offer.
Two words: torque steer.
A FWD 300hp "sports sedan"? Yeah right...
If you drop the model completely, then Nissan doesn't have a large car to offer.
Seems to me Honda is doing just fine without a large car...
Who said anything about it being a "sports sedan"? Just because it has 300 hp, doesn't mean it has to be a "sports sedan".
Honda will eventually move the Accord into the large car segment...merely by evolution. However, Honda's mantra is the FE King of the auto industry...large cars don't help them in that area.
Sports sedan or not, with around 300hp, torque steer in a FWD Maxima will no doubt to be nasty.
So what if the Accord will eventually move into the large car segment but Honda will still slot it in the "family sedan segment" with the rest like Camry, Altima and Sonata. Actually according to EPA, the current Sonata is also a "large car", do you see Hyundai to market it against Avalon, Impala and Maxima?
Honda's mantra is the FE king but Nissan's mantra is "sporty" that's why I said there is no way Nissan can out-Toyota Toyota with the Maxima.
I...my friend...was the one that just said just because it has 300 hp, doesn't make it a sports sedan.
Go test drive the following 3 cars with hands off the steering wheel and step hard on the gas padel. Make sure you are at an open area and no other cars around.
1. Your Azera
2. Nissan Maxima
3. Any 300hp+ RWD sedans like the IS350, 335i, G35 and etc...
Let us know afterward if you still think 300hp+ FWD car is a good idea.
However, the test you suggest is quite ridiculous...nobody, and I stress NOBODY should or would mash on the gas pedal of ANY car with their hands off the steering wheel.
I still think, with today's technology...a 300 hp FWD vehicle can work.
You see...everything you're saying makes perfect sense if you're goal is maximum performance...and on that point, I do agree.
As far as Infiniti selling a stripped down M for the $30K's just to make up for Nissan dropping the Max...I don't see it happening.
Retained Value
Edmunds' TMV® calculator values the Azera at $21,838 after 18,530 miles. This equates to 27 percent depreciation from its original MSRP and ranks it just behind its competitors in resale worth.
Our Toyota Camry depreciated by a similar 26 percent margin at the conclusion of its long-term test, although it had an additional 3,000 miles on the odometer.
True Market Value at service end: $21,838
Depreciation: $7,932 or 27 percent of original MSRP
Final Odometer Reading: 18,530
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=118914/pageNumber- =2
I'm an old-timer, owned a '66 Chevy SS, 427 tri-power when it was brand new and many other big-blocks, the FWD is certainly different entirely in its handling characteristics but it is driveable and fast, would I go back to the sixties if I could? No way.
While I don't know if everything was entered 100%, there certainly is a few thousand dollars discrepancy between kbb and edmunds. I think edmunds is optimistic, although if I were in the market for a used Azera I would certainly negotiate from the lowest number up.
I then put in the same generic responses for the Avalon, choosing the highest level trim. The number that came back for private party sale was: $22.2 fair condition, $26K excellent conditions. For trade in: dealer gives you about $3.5K less.
So,
Azera: 20,800 / 28,030 = 74.21% retained value
Avalon: 26,000 / 34,725 = 74.87% retained value
25.79% depreciation for the Azera vs. 25.13% for the Avalon
There is something else at work here - car desirability and how that might effect how close you might get to anybody's value estimates.
IT goes like this - If I'm out trading in an Avalon on a more premium brand car. the used car dept. is all over themselves to get it and will likely put the car in the front row of the lot - it effects the REAL value they allow on the car which is usually not close to Edmunds TMV or kbb etc.. Drive in with an Azera, this is NOT likely the case - they'll probably wholesale it off to a Hyundai dealer or something, thereby reducing its value - substantially. WHY - because folks out shopping the more premium brands likely have no interest in Korean cars but might consider a 'Japanese' one.They will have a bunch more trouble selling that Hyundai off a BMW lot (for example) than they do off a Hyundai lot.
Indeed? Do you own one?
I have an SS with 303 HP and it drives just fine. There is NO torque steer unless I accelerate like a maniac and even then it is rather unimpressive.
Why must people continually exaggerate the torque steer in the SS with its wonderful V-8 engine??! What other full size car will give you 0-60 times of 5.6 sec and a top end of 154 mph and at a price which is not at all unreasonable?
Why must people continually exaggerate the torque steer in the SS with its wonderful V-8 engine??! What other full size car will give you 0-60 times of 5.6 sec and a top end of 154 mph and at a price which is not at all unreasonable?
I'm curious, if you don't accelerate like a maniac, why would you want a family car that goes over 150 MPH and goes 0-60 in less than 6 seconds?
Occasionally I can utilize the performance, mostly I can not due to traffic conditions, but I still have it. That same mentally must exist for those that purchase a 100K plus vehicle to drive daily, surely they don't "need" it but they want it. Good enough reason for me. Someday I may be forced into trundling around in a 4 cylinder, but until then I choose not to..
For the same reason you don't drink Merlot with sand dabs. A Chevy 300hp V8 with FWD? A bizarre combination no other manufacturer has bothered with. Not Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford or Chrysler. The Germans would sneer at the thought of it.
How odd now, that even Hyundai (Genesis) has figured it out.
And, personally, the Impala is too softly sprung and saddled with only a 4-speed - hardly a sports sedan. A high-speed touring car in my opinion (and a good looking one in black!).
I guess by this you mean that even Hyundai has discovered that it does create some problems, (High HP- FWD) and therefore even the Koreans know NOT to do it. The Germans, I would suggest, that while they obviously understand the implications of the the same wheels doing the 'pulling' and the steering, it may also have something to do with the front biased weight distributions inherent in any FWD car.
The Impala SS - a sports sedan - hilarious - why just because it's overpowered? By that definition then the Avalon/Maxima/Azera must also be 'sports sedans' because they too are 'overpowered'. Yet another ridiculous contention. 154 mph in an Impala ( or any of these cars) - maybe if you have a death wish!
The only reason that the Impala SS even exists is because it seems that GM (in this case) only gets 'competitive' HP by using those big ole antiquated gas hog V8s instead of a wheezy selection of pushrod V6s. Topping this all off, of course, is CRs recent nomination of the Impala V8 as its worst of the worst. No matter though, the car will be replaced soon - by its Australian brethren - and that will be properly RWD for the 350hp or so that it is due to have.
Correct.
2. Anyone who thinks a FWD with 300hp+ is a good idea has neither tried a RWD/AWD 300hp+ sports sedan nor has really stomped on the gas before.
:shades:
If you are unable to appreciate the considerable virtues of the American small block V-8 with its delicious exhaust note and gobs of endless torque, you have my sympathies.
The Chevrolet Impala received the Owner Loyalty Award Winner from R. L. Polk & Company. CR should stick to evaluating toasters for they know precious little about cars.
As far as CR goes, they do certainly have their biases (FE, safety, reliabililty for example) and less on things like burning all the rubber off a set of front tires but nonetheless they are the only organization that I know of that's not in it for the money and likely remain the single most influential publication in this regard, whether you (or I) like it or not.....
2. Anyone who thinks a FWD with 300hp+ is a good idea has neither tried a RWD/AWD 300hp+ sports sedan nor has really stomped on the gas before.
Aren't you being just a bit presumptuous?
The Impala SS is very much a sports sedan with its on-demand V-8 engine that works seamlessly, its heavy duty transmission which performs smoothly and without hesitation, and its comfortable suspension that is adequate for most driving situations. Just because it does not fit your definition of a "sports sedan" in no way lessens its virtues.
And exactly in what way is the V-8 'rumble" in the SS not "properly applied?"
The RL Polk what? A good example of a store bought invented 'award' that really means nothing. I find it difficult to believe that Chevy would even bother advertising something so obviously contrived and meaningless.
Further, in what way does the Polk award mean nothing? Just how is it "obviously contrived and meaningless?"
It seems that you have an ingrained bias against the SS. Like CR who, of course, are promulgating their publication out of the goodness of their hearts. LOL
1. FF setup - FWD is the last thing that a sports sedan wants to be associated with.
2. V8 with 303hp - There are V6s that can put this V8 to shame power wise and returns better FE.
3. 4-speed auto tranny - Not even 5-speed?
4. Comfortable suspension - We are talking about "sports sedan" here right?
5. 0-60 in 5.6 sec - So what? Why not talking about the slalom numbers, skid pad numbers and front-rear weight distribution as where a real "sports sedan" is defined?
So what's your definition of sports sedans?