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And if gadgets/$ is what floats your boat then Genesis should be a great option.
'gadgets' (even though people seem to want them) - would be the last thing I would do if I were Hyundai - trying to shed this 'Korean' car image. The more complicated the Genesis is with needless gimcracks the less reliable it will logically be. Believe the Germans (among others), technology is a double edge sword. So, therefore, manufacture a simple, straight forward and well-built car and then maybe more people will change their attitudes, and sooner or later some other brand can become the butt of all those car jokes.
I seem to remember the 05 Max I looked at had reclining rear seats - like the Avalon I ended up in - the seats are/were an option?
I think Genesis is fine with its gadget contents, as long as Hyundai makes sure that there won't be major hiccups along the way. In order to be successful, this car needs a record like the original LS400: spotless.
SAAB HARDLY falls into the luxury category as they are geared more towards sport. If any of them qualify, it would be the 9-7 and MAYBE the 9-5.
Well...at least with the gadgets...they went with quality. Lexicon (Harmon Kardon...same company that makes Infinity) and the transmissions being used are either by ZF or Aisin (depending on which model you get). I know the in-dash screen in the '08 Azera is by LG, so I would imagine the same would be true for the Genesis.
Marketing is great. Hyundai could say it built the thing to take out a Testosserosa, but here on earth....
Now you understand why I was pushing for Hyundai to establish a separate luxury brand with the Genesis?
As for gadgets, trust me, a true luxury car doesn't make or break with it. Forgive me to say this but a blue-collar kind of luxury (your definition for Genesis) will never be the mainstream luxury (where the big boys play).
The Genesis will no doubt be a worthwhile flagship for Hyundai and an excellent car for its price but it is still not a luxury car.
The Azera gives one a tiny taste of luxury and the Genesis is supposed to be head & shoulders above it.
We shall see come the latter part of this year.
whatever the h--- that is - another award bought and paid for by whoever is willing to 'pay' to use the 'title'. JDP is the same way - money changes hands so it must be taken with a grain of salt. Ever notice that the mfgrs. that tend to 'win' these 'awards' are the ones that need it the most - amazing! All this said, I have no issue with it, the Azera is underpriced and is obviously underappreciated judging by its sales volume and by its resale values. .
Luxury car is defined by what it offers, not by the badge on the front of the car.
Also, if the Genesis is offered as a separate make or car line, then that will artificially inflate the price of the car.
Remember, we are talking about entry level "luxury" cars.
The big question is will Hyundai support it, will it do what they say it will, will it be problem free?
You may need to interact with the real world once a while...
Entry level luxury cars by the industry definition means the entry models from the luxury brands (BMW, MB, Lexus, Audi...). Genesis by no means is a entry level luxury cars. It is a near luxury car which includes cars from mainstream brands that include most of the luxury features and gadgets that can be found on the luxury cars.
I didn't make this up, do some research then you'll get what I am talking about.
Duke basketball team might be good enough to beat Atlanta Hawks but that doesn't mean it is a professional basketball team.
By that definition, to use an example, a Honda Pilot or Accord could be luxury vehicles.
That's why I was pushing for a separate luxury brand from Hyundai. Genesis, the car itself, might be a worthy competitor to the 5er/E/GS but as long as it is carrying the Hyundai emblem it will never be in the same league.
By the way, does Genesis have real wood trim?
"While Genesis will compete for customers with cars like Chrysler 300 and Pontiac G8, our engineering benchmarks were Mercedes E-Class, Infiniti M, and Lexus GS," said John Krafcik, vice president, product development and strategic planning, Hyundai Motor America. "Genesis provides a potent combination of performance, luxury, and value. We think it has the opportunity to be an extremely disruptive force in the large sedan and near-luxury segments."
As for the woodtrim here's what was in the press release:
Standard is a soft-touch instrument panel with woodgrain accents, Bluetooth® hands-free mobile phone interface, and USB/iPod® auxiliary inputs.
Doesn't look like the Genesis will have real woodtrim by reading this.
Source: Autoblog
"“The customer can perceive exceptional value in vehicles that are more expensive. They get what they want in terms of quality, product characteristics and features, innovation and image,” states Dr. Edwards. Value leader MINI Cooper leads its segment for the sixth year. Other winners were the Volvo V50 and Mercedes ML.
“Value isn’t simply the cheap alternative, the choice with the largest incentive, or the option with the biggest warranty. Value begins with the promises inherently made by the brand name, is then supported by the economic implications of purchase, and is ultimately defined by and ends with the product quality cues,” Alexander Edwards concluded. “With so many high quality choices today and new choices coming (perhaps) from places like China in the future, understanding how brand equity combined with the right product will be the keys to success in tomorrow’s market.”
As for how "independent" they are, maybe the captain is right. The report notes that Toyota Motor leads with 20 vehicles. They must have really paid a lot of money. Hyundai only had two -- Azera and Santa Fe. Avalon is one of the 20, just not enough value to beat out the Azera.
I checked the internet for definition of "entry level luxury car" and found this:
[edit] Entry-level luxury
The Mercedes-Benz C-Class is an entry-level luxury sedan.The entry-level luxury forms the beginning classification of the luxury vehicles; competition in this segment is typically fierce. It features vehicles with an MSRP approximately between $26,000 and $36,000 (though with options, particularly on the BMW 3 Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class, they can creep well into the $40,000 to $60,000 range), a relatively high degree of comfort is manufactured by luxury brand. If the vehicle is manufactured by a non-luxury marque its base MSRP should exceed approximately $36k and it must place an emphasis on comfort. The equivalent classification in Britain is compact executive car.
This segment mostly includes the bottom vehicles in the line-up of luxury brands as well as the top-of-the-line models of some non-luxury brands. Vehicles in this segment include the Acura TSX, Acura TL, Alfa Romeo 159, Buick Lucerne, BMW 3 Series, Cadillac CTS, Chrysler 300, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lexus IS, Lexus ES, Audi A4, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Infiniti G35, Lincoln MKZ,Volvo S60, Volvo S40, Volvo V50, Saab 9-3, and the Jaguar X-Type.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Genesis has real wood on the center stack, wheel, gear shift and on the switch gear on the doors. It's pretty clear that the use of the word 'accents' by Krafcik meant that the entire dash and upper door panels, where wood is sometimes used, in this segment, would not have wood grain but stitched leather inserts which is unique and very tasteful. I would prefer the leather over wood grain as Hyundai executed this but woodgrain is expected in part in the luxury segment so Hyundai obliged in places
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-hyundai-genesis-sedan/566576/
Captain, Louis, Kd,
Is the Volkswagen Phaeton a luxury car?
We are classifying where a car belongs. While Hyundai Genesis is likely to compete with the 30K range competitors, for the most part, it very much qualifies as a luxury car. Hyundai has pointed this out too, and in not so much words as their press releases - just because a car is expected to compete with some models under mainstream nameplates, it doesn't equate as a non-luxury car.
As far as the Phaeton goes, at least there was a partnership with a luxury automobile manufacturer, can't say the same about Hyundai. So no in my book the Genesis is not a luxury automobile.
Power rear sunshade
XM and XM NAVTraffic
HD Radio
Electronic active head restraints
Lexicon Discrete Surround Audio Systems (17 speakers; RR Phantom is the only other to have it IIRC)
Smart cruise control (SCC)
Front & rear five-link suspension
Amplitude Selective Dampers (ASD)
Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFLS)
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps with adaptive leveling
8 inch navigation with backup camera
30 gig hard drive
Push-button start
Electric parking brake
8 ultrasonic sensors
ESC
Eight airbags
Heated and cooled seats
Bluetooth
iPod/USB aux inputs
Automatic windshield defogger with humidity sensor
Rain-sensing wipers
6-speed transmissions (ZF & Aisin)
And more...plus a kick-[non-permissible content removed] warranty, and an amazing price tag
As far as the Phaeton goes, at least there was a partnership with a luxury automobile manufacturer,
If you are thinking of Audi, no it is not a manufacturer, but rather a division. What's this partnership you speak of?
A car is not a luxury car because it is not associated with a luxury manufacturer, now there's some good laugh.
The interesting brand to me is Lincoln - there is no longer anything unique in the line - just simply rebadged Ford products. Traditionally a 'luxury' brand but what is it now? Cadillac OTH seems to be doing a better job elevating themselves over the GM mayhem.
I personally think 'Genesis' is a great name that could evolve into something not perceived as 'Korean' - why not use the name for new dealerships, after 'culling' the herd of all those Hyundai dealers that seem to think that the only way to do any business is to buy it!
You can call it what you want. If your definition of entry luxury is association with a brand, Hyundai is not. If your definition is doodads, than that would include a whole other bunch of cars today not considered luxury,
Geez, if ever there was a reason for NOT buying a Hyundai it would be to avoid being put in the same "club" as some of you....
You just hit the nail on the head. Maybe Hyundai needs to be reminded of Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/ Infiniti, Honda/Accura, all pretty solid playbooks. Or, maybe Korea takes exception to Japanese successes.
While luxury cars (not brand) are generally found on more prestige lines, certainly the definition of a luxury car is not limited to luxury makers.
"A luxury vehicle is a relatively expensive vehicle that includes additional features designed to increase the comfort of the driver and passengers. Luxury vehicles usually place more emphasis on comfort, appearance, and amenities such as technological upgrades and higher quality materials than on performance, economy, or utility."
I don't know, I'm asking you. We've already tried the Phaenton. There is no difference between that and the Genesis, except about 35K? Right.
genesis is a luxury sedan because
1. it looks like a luxury sedan
2. it has a 375hp, and it's RWD(name a top luxury flagship without RWD)
3. it has all the goodies
4. it's comparable to other luxury sedans on paper and looks
phaeton failed because well it was priced well north of 60k!! they were nuts to think they can sell a VW at 65k. if genesis was 65k, no one would buy it. no one here would ever talk about it. that's just how it is.
hyundai is very smart not creating a luxury brand yet. genesis will instantly erase hyundai's bad-rep. and wait till genesis coupe shows up on the block. not only it will have all the street cred, but it will win over every so-called enthusiasts for trying. hyundai never sleeps. 10 years ago, no one would dare compare samsung to sony, but look at samsung. that's what koreans do. they never sleep. i respect their work ethic.
hyundai will forever be a player, and no one would dare to talk trash about it. go to bmw, acura, lexus forums. genesis has already getting respected by luxury fans. go to acura forum and even they think genesis is 10 times better than upcoming RL.
Actually your analogy is incorrect. It takes a sophisticated pallete to appreciate the nuiances of a fine, expensive wine. Anybody can chug a bottle of wine, but not everybody can appreciate the subtlies. :confuse
hyundai will forever be a player, and no one would dare to talk trash about it. go to bmw, acura, lexus forums. genesis has already getting respected by luxury fans. go to acura forum and even they think genesis is 10 times better than upcoming RL.
Looks like it has already started. Those Super Bowl ads Hyundai invested in, well, let's see some results:
Hyundai’s advertisement for the Genesis had the most positive impact on its brand, with 46 percent of respondents indicating it helped the brand, while just 1 percent said it damaged the brand, giving it a net improvement score of 45 percent. Anheuser-Busch once again got an overwhelmingly positive response, while Bridgestone earned the third highest net improvement score with its humorous ad featuring Richard Simmons.
Hitwise, announced the Super Bowl XLII advertiser websites with the largest increases in market share of visits on Super Bowl Sunday (Feb. 3, 2008) were Hyundai (www.hyundaigenesis.com), up 1450 percent versus Saturday, Feb. 2, 2008, Paramount’s Ironman Movie (www.ironmanmovie.com), up 800 percent and GoDaddy.com, which increased 616 percent.
:sick:
True, of course, not to mention those failures. I also cotrend that Hyundai is in no position YET to have something like the Genesis succeed almost regardless of how good the car may or may not be. Sad, perhaps, but true. The Lexus LS succeeded because it was a helluva car and also because it was a Toyota, same can be said for the Acura Legend, only Nissan lagged a bit . Hyundai was lagely associated with the whole concept of 'disposable' sub $10k cars along with things like Daewoos and Yugos. The company has yet to live that down.
Kind of like Hyundai. If you're blinded by the name planted on the hood, then you might be missing a special bargain.
I wasn't thinking Hyundai at all, but was interested in the new Accord. On the Honda boards, I defended the Honda after Sonata owners made comparisons similar to those going on in this thread. I even went out and tried the Sonata and hated its interior. Then, at a latter time, tried the Azera and loved the car, one that I could have had for significantly less than the Accord six. My paradigm changed. I started trying to find out more and more information to evaluate Hyundais and what I learned was largely positive.
I am considering Hyundai (Azera or Genesis) still and my main reservation is having to deal with what I perceive is a bad service department after the purchase.
I'm also considering a variety of other cars, but certainly wouldn't care a twit if others considered what I was driving luxury or not.
For me if it has the features, has a great ride then I really dont care what the name brand of the car is. As far as resale value - i would rather take a hit on a $30K car than a car that $70K like a BMW. With the 30K car, I can buy 2 over the lifetime and still come out ahead (assuming that the hyundai has 0 resale value)
Moderators, please note this is not a personal attack; I did not name anybody.
Betcha I didn't have to.
Just send the moderators an email with the info. Their names are at the top of each discussion page. You can click on the names for the email addresses.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I mean...you go from the $35K Passat to a $65 Phaeton. Granted, the Toureg fetches upwards of $50K for the V-10 model, but still...we're talking sedans.
Had the Phaeton been brought out under the Audi badge, it probably would have fared better as you have the A8 as bridge so the jump in price isn't drastic.
Another key folks are leaving out concerning luxury...it's a feeling that you get...perception. I mean...a brand name can invoke the idea of luxury because that's what they are known for, but that doesn't define luxury. Luxury, also, is not the laundry list of gadetry thrown at a customer. It's a feeling one gets when either looking at or into the vehicle as well as actually sitting in the vehicle. If a Nissan Sentra had all the technology and gadetry of a Benz S-Class...it still would not be luxury. First of all, luxury is supposed to make one feel exclusive, as if buying into something special. If Hyundai pulls this off with the Geneiss, there's no reason to believe that it can't be a luxury car.