Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

hardhawk

Both these cars are on my serious list. Each has attributes I like as well as disadvantages. The Azera looks and has the features of a more expensive car than the current 500. The 500 has WAY more trunk space as well as a roomier interior and better seating position (seats sit higher off the floor than Azera).

allmet33

Funny...the critics knocked the Azera for having too high a driving position.

Don't know if I agree about the 500 having a roomier interior considering the numbers between the two are neck and neck in almost every category. You would think that a car with 8 inches more overall length and 4 inches more in wheelbase space...there would be a more significant difference in net interior numbers.

I own an Azera and I sat in a 500, there's a perception of more room because of all the flat lines and surfaces in the 500. Also, the color of the interior can make a difference, not to mention a moon roof as well.

captain2

after test driving the Azera, thought the same thing when compared to my Avalon (and closer to my wife's Altima), total interior volume is, however, close to the same on all three cars, although the 500 will hold an extra 'Jimmy Hoffa' in the trunk, as you note. Exterior wise, however, both the 500 and Avalon are a good bit longer, have better rear seating space, and feel/look a bit larger, even if that really isn't the case.

hardhawk

They are all nice cars. It was not so long ago that we didn't have the choices between so many comparable cars. The Avalon is probably out for me due to its much higher actual transaction price than either the 500 or Azera. The Avalon Limited is expensive and the Toyota dealers don't deal much around here. They have that attitude of "If you won't pay my prioe the next person through the door will." Both the 500 Limited and Azera Limited can be had with decent price reductions.

allmet33

You know what the critics don't mention is that you can lower the actual height of the seat (if you desire). I'm 6'2" tall and I have the rear of the seat lowered all the way and the front is slightly elevated to have me sitting a bit of an incline. I have PLENTY of head room and I'm definitely comfortable. Personally, I don't like sitting up on the steering wheel.

So now maybe the 500 will become the new Mob car! LOL

With both the 500 and the Avalon being a good bit longer, I'm surprised that it doesn't translate into more significant numbers than it actually does. I mean, in most cases, the measurables only differ by tenths of an inch. The 500 is taller than the Azera by almost 3 full inches and yet, interior headroom (front)falls almost a full inch shorter than in the Azera, while rear head room in both only shows 3/10's of a difference.

The 500 is wider than the Azera and yet, when it comes to hip room, both front and back...the Azera has more by 2+" in both. Funny, but bigger on the outside doesn't always equate to bigger on the inside. I guess that's how they created all that extra room for Jimmy Hoffa.

In reality, when it comes to shouder room, it's only going to matter when you have 3 adults stuffed in the rear seat (which is probably the only time tenths of an inch matter). In most cases with 4 adults in the car...you won't notice.

Leg room...well, that is going to depend on who is sitting up front and how they feel they need that front seat to be set up. My wife is 5'4" and I've sat behind her while she drove and I was extremely comfortable. In turn, she has sat behind me with a couple inches between her knees and the seat back.

Sure would be nice if Hyundai could incorporate the reclining rear seats like in the Avalon, that's a really slick feature that heightens rear seat comfort. Other than that...for the average family of 3 or 4...all 3 cars (Azera, 500 & Avalon) have more than enough room inside to accomdate comfortably.

captain2

the reclinig rears do make a world of difference but they also eliminate the possibilty of the folding rear seat as well, I am your size and have never had any cause to have to move my seat up from its already full back position to accomodate rear seat passengers - even ones that also happen to be my size. The Avalon and 500 share this, almost absurdly spacious rear seats, kind of like the old Checker cabs.
You may be right, though - a good place to find a good 'used' 500 may be on the bottom of the Chicago river, just hope that there is nothing in that trunk after you get done dredging it up!

floridabob1

RE 1107
I agree. The reclining rear seat on the Avalon is a nice feature.
I am 6'3" and with drivers seat all the way back, the way that I drive my Azzy, most passengers are comfortable seated behind me.

captain2

the Avalon Limited can certainly get close to $40k (with NAV) but is a level or two above the Azera or 500 Ltds. in terms of bling - more like what you would expect in a Lexus. You also understand the Toyota dealer attitude as well, about the easiest way to be completely ignored on the showroom floor is to start asking that salesman to justify his prices or even tell him that you are also shopping something like an Azera. He would likely tell you, if that's what you want buy it - but we sell TOYOTAS here - and then promptly move on to the next mullet waiting in line, not 'wasting' anymore time with you. Honda dealers tend to be the same. They do work on commission...

quietpro

it's called a S80 and is equipped with a Yamaha V8, much in the same way that the old SHO Taurus had a Yamaha V6. Deja Vu?

Actually, the last SHOs had a Yamaha V8 as well.

allmet33

I think any passenger that's probably 5'9" and up would be uncomfortable sitting behind anyone 6'2" and up in the Azera for long periods. However...how often do you actually think that would happen. In my case, my kids are usually in the back and it'll be a long, long time (if ever) that they see the high side of the mid-five foot height on any ruler!

In the rare case someone taller (around 6'), I can actually move the seat forward a bit, tilt it forward and re-adjust the steering wheel and still be rather comfortable. :shades:

A 12 hour trip to FL with 3 adults and 2 kids went smoothly and everyone was rather comfortable for the entire trip. I drove, my brother in law (6'2" as well) rode shotgun and my wife sat in the back with our two girls. There were no arguments of being crowded...they actually slept most of the trip down. Oh yeah, not to mention, the trunk capably held all of our luggage for a week's stay on top of the sub enclosure/amp rack I installed. In my opinion...not bad at all.

hardhawk

I am 6'4" and I hit my head in the back seat of the Avalon with the seat in either position. The Avalon does have more LExus like bling for sure, I just can't get past the dealership attitudes. The best price I have ever seen for an Avalon Limited was $3000 off MSRP.

allmet33

In all honesty, it depends on what you're looking for. If you want premium features, options and reputable dependability...the Avalon is your car. If you want bang for the buck, a laundry list of standard features and a car that's more than capable from a company that's proving better and better reliablity...the Azera is your car. Now...if you want a decent family mover with cavernous trunk space, decently appointed...then the 500 is your car. :shades:

Personally, the outside styling of the Avalon just didn't grab me. Something about that crease that goes down each side from front to back that messes with me. However, once inside...you quickly forget about the outside. There are features that you come across as pleasant surprises. One thing I really like about the Avalon is the flat floor in the rear.

For me, the smooth lines and curves of the Azera caught my attention and made me want to sit in it. Taking it for a test drive made me want to drive it more. The list of standard features was long and everything is pretty much straight-forward and the pleasing part is that it looks and feels like quality that belies it's price. I definitely don't feel like a dummy for this purchase.

The 500...the outside is actually a very good look for FoMoCo. Clean lines from an American maker that paid homage to Euro-styling. Very nice mix of lines. Inside...I just didn't feel inspired to drive the car. I mean...all the straight hard lines, it almost looked clinical. The car just didn't evoke a connection from me...sorta just a take it, or leave it feeling. :confuse:

allmet33

It seems over in Korea, they have it (sxroll to the bottom)! Not to mention factory in-dash navigation/multi-media units as well.

hardhawk

I would pretty much agree with your assessment. I am hoping the 500 gets at least a mild interior freshening, but won't hold my breath. I have really enjoyed my 2005 Dodge Magnum wagon, but with my oldest son nearing driving age, my insurance agent tells me I really don't want to have a 340 HP Hemi in the garage with a youthful unmarried male in the household! So, when the lease expires this fall, it goes back and I have to find something else. I want either FWD or AWD and I have not decided if I will go with a large sedan or a crossover of some sort. I am flying up to Chicago next week to go the Chicago auto show and check everything out first hand. I can hardly wait. It was the Chicago show 3 years ago at which I first saw a Magnum in person and was hooked. When I first drove one it was all over. It has been a remarkable car that I will miss. I remember the Chicago show when the Azera was new. I was more impressed with it than ANY other car at the show. I came home and told my wife that the Azera was going to be a great car and I still feel that way. I truly have no idea what I am going to wind up with. I will use the auto show to narrow the field then start the test drives of the finalists this summer so I can get something ordered in time for the expiration of the Magnum lease.

allmet33

Well...you can always keep the Magnum and just drop it down to the SXT model and you'll have 250 ponies and still have all you love about the car.

A buddy of mine as a Magnum and my mother-in-law has a 300...both are decent cars, the Magnum is cavernous on the inside, it's definitely not your father's station wagon, that's for sure!

Soon, cars will be like computers. You blink and there will be a host of new cars staring you in your face, daring you to pick one just so you can blink again and see a fresh new batch making you wish you had held out! LOL

Good luck on your next pick!

hardhawk

I thought about the SXT but I don't think I can go back to the Magnum without the Hemi. It sounds nuts, but I can't imagine driving a Magnum without that explosion of power wating to be ignited with the drop of my right foot!

donl1

I know what you mean about the jolt you get with the Hemi. That's what I'll miss most when I trade my 300C AWD.

pahefner01

I think you make a good number of points. I like the looks of the Chrysler 300. However, I drove one as a rental car and didn't like the "short" windows and the limited visibility. However it defenitely turned heads. I bought an Azera and like the styling of it better than anything on the road at any price in a sedan but not everyone may fell that way.

allmet33

Well, you know...you can get the benefit of lower insurance since the engine is stated to be 250 HP, however...there's plenty of upgrades you can add to the engine to boost the output up to where you truly want it. I mean...anything you get with less than the 300+ HP is going to leave you feeling like you're missing something...regardless of what it is.

allmet33

Don't get me wrong, the 300 is DEFINITELY a head turner, its looks are unique and it has a commanding presence. I just don't like the fact that everyone and their brother has one.

joe131

...lower insurance premiums?
Maybe yes, maybe no. Each company has its own rules.

allmet33

You're right, it's a crap-shoot out there!

hardhawk

The problem on the horsepower penalty will be because of having a 14 year old son who will start driving! With virtually ANY insurance company, they will not like a "youthful unmarried male" driving a 340 HP high performance car, even if it is a Dodge station wagon!

joe131

...good thing it is not his 9 year old son who will start driving. Imagine what the premium increase would be for that!
But maybe he could arrange to marry them both off to the neighbor's young pre-teen and teen daughters who are likewise beginning to drive? Then maybe everyone could save a bunch of $$ !
(Or, if homosexual marriages are legal there, and the parties are willing, young boys marrying each other would maximize the savings further. Maybe enough to take them and the in-laws to Disneyworld.)

havalongavalon

When my teen started to drive recently, I didn't ever consider trading my 2005 Avalon for lower HP. Rather, we adopted a small, inexpensive, fun-to-drive Scion Xa.

My teen is not listed in the Avalon insurance, just in the Scion's.

But we all get to drive the Scion (for now).

Win-win! :shades:

jaxs1

Ford will soon announce the Ford Five Hundred will be renamed as Taurus now that the old Taurus is no longer in production.

captain2

really? think this would be a mistake, something about the reputation the Taurus has acquired over the years at Hertz. Was a competitive car about 15 years ago, wonder how many of us remember that?

jaxs1

Ford's practice of renaming vehicles a year or few after debut (Lincoln Zephyr etc.) is likely a mistake, but it's one they can't stop making.
They hope the name change will increase sales of the Five Hundred since the Taurus had more sales than the Five Hundred has had.
New grill, new engine and now new name.

hardhawk

So, we are back to the Taurus and Sable! Changing the names is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If anything will save these cars it will be the new more powerful engines!

tjc78

If the 3.5 proves reliable I think that Ford should be OK with the 500. It gives the car what it was missing from the beginning. I think the name change is good, the Taurus was a huge hit for Ford in the late 80s early 90s. It's Fords own fault what happened to the Taurus in its later years. They basically neglected it. Kinda like what they are doing to the Crown Vic/Marquis, just letting them die a slow death.

Here is a Pic of the new 500 I think it looks pretty good with it's new Fusion grill.

allmet33

I guess Ford figured if Dodge can bring old names back from the grave, why can't they! However, it would have been better if it started out that way instead of changing 500 over to Taurus for the sake of a selling name. With the consumer being even more educated in the past, simply changing the name won't bring better results. People will still "SEE" the same car. Tjc78, you're right...if the 3.5 proves a solid performer and reliable...it'll be fine.

I do think those fender vents are rather slick!

captain2

DC brought back (after some misfires called the 300M) the 300 as a car that is, for whatever faults it does have, unique. The Taurus, in my mind, even though I have been around plenty long enough, was never a car that I thought was anything other than a basic sedan. Again, something I would find at Hertz. The point being that I don't believe the "Taurus" name is strong enough to push anybody back into Ford's showrooms and may in fact, keep them away. The 'Gillette' treatment on the front end while I understand they do this for brand identification, really makes the thing look too much like the Fusion.

pat

Side note: the 300M was an extremely popular vehicle with the posters here, at least before it was discontinued, redone into the 300/300C. May not have been true for the rest of the world, but the 300M owners here were nearly beyond fanatics over their cars and there certainly seemed to be a whole lot of them.

captain2

even worse than us Avalon owners? Hard to believe

pat

Haha, 'bout the same! :P

jaxs1

It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks about past cars on rental lots.
Between the two name choices of 500 and Taurus, Taurus is a better name choice. Period. The new "Five Hundred" name that many people don't even know exists has already been proven a mistake, nothing to debate.

explorerx4

the 500 name made a promise the car could not deliver. it was bad marketing.

grayfox

Isn't this a Hyundai Azera forum?

joe97

It's a joint forum between the following:

Buick Lucerne
Chevrolet Impala
Chrysler 300
Dodge Charger
Ford Taurus (Five Hundred)
Hyundai Azera
Toyota Avalon
Nissan Maxima
Kia Amanti

allmet33

Actually, I was referring more to the Charger and Challenger that DC is bringing back. The 300/300C is more an evolution of the 300M, not a remake of an older classic.

The Taurus will evoke memories of bland, basic transportation, which after the likes of what DC has brought to the table...they won't want any parts of. The 500 name is fine, it's just instead of a home run they got a base hit out of it by under-powering the car. If FoMoCo had dropped the 3.5 into a totally new designed car from the beginning, customers wouldn't be complaining about it. To be honest, the 500 outside of the power issue is a fresh new design for FoMoCo that gives a buyer everything they could want from a family sedan. It's conservative, but not bland. It's well appointed and seems to have solid craftsmanship. Interior is clean and not cluttered or confusing, and as far as roominess...a family of 4 will be far from cramped in the cavernous cabin. Worried about hauling groceries for a large family, the trunk will swallow loads easily as it borderlines warehouse status. All in all...FoMoCo shot themselves in the foot by giving it an engine that just shouldn't have been offered with it. I mean, it's like putting a near flawless, 2 ct., princess cut diamond into a gold plated setting.

Most companies do make their cars look like each other. Infinity M-series look like beefier G-series cars. Look at what Nissan is doing...the Altima & Maxima resembled each other for a while and now the new Sentra looks like the Altima's mini-me. The Fusion is FoMoCo's most exciting offering at this point and I think they will help the 500 by offering the new 3.5 along with the Fusion inspired grille treatment to show the world they can two-step to a new beat.

allmet33

As long as it's a large sedan (full sized) for under $30K, it fits in this forum. Thus, the 300, 500, Azera, Lucerne, Avalon, Maxima, etc...

explorerx4

thanks wingman!

plekto

Actually, a couple - but the biggest omission is the Grand Marquis. You can get them at the end of the year for under $20K. Not $30K - $17K plus change. New.

joe131

Hyundai Sonata is a large sedan says the EPA. It should be included here too. It's also a large car available for under $20,000.

jaxs1

Sonata is already included elsewhere. No sense to put in more places. It is also about grouping cars together that many people crosshop and compare.
Probably not many crossshopping Sonatas and Grand Marquis.

joe131

So? Most of the listed cars in here also are included elsewhere. Not many (except police depts) are shopping Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, period.

plekto

It's the biggest "full-size" car of them all. At the end of the year, you can get a fully loaded Ultimate(or whatever they call it that year) version with every option they offer on it, including two-tone paint, alloys, traction control, and so on... for barely over $25K.

Loads of chrome and 0% Police-looking.

It certainly does belong on this list.

joe131

it's a dinosaur. most people realize it. it's almost like the last VW Beetles before they changed to front wheel drive. A modernized antique car. Not appealing to almost everyone under 70. And, for being so big and heavy it has very little legroom. Also handles poorly compared to almost any other car made for US sales.

tjc78

I've always liked the full size Fords, esp the Town Car, but The Grand Marquis (TC and Vic too) are dead! I must admit there is something about driving one (Grandpa has an '04, I had an 89 Marquis and Town Car) big, heavy and floaty. However, for as big as they are, my Avalon has much more room in the back seat. Fuel economy stinks relative to power. Depreciation is horrid. If it wasn't for the police departments the Crown Vic, Marquis, and Town Car would be no longer. Actually, they may be out the door now, was at the Philly car show last night and didn't see any of the trio. Its time for Ford to look ahead, the Fusion is doing OK and the 500/Taurus with new engine and look should really help.

captain2

the only place the current GM or the CV belong these days is in a museum. Inefficient designs from both a space and power utilitization point of view. But you are right, they are dirt cheap - you do get what you pay for.
Actually I think Ford, in this case, is missing something here. Both cars are well established and with a lot of updating - keep the RWD and fix things - like a real rear suspension (get rid of the solid rear axle), a lot of 'tightening up', and put this new 3.5 liter V6 in it that should not only improve FE but also power, and once they have that, turn around and put some sort of 300+ hp Mustang V8 in it as an option for the 'performance' freaks. Same thing that Chrysler did with the 300 with MB suspension designs, and it certainly has worked for them. The type of car that 'Detroit' should be able to do easily. Until that point, the GM/CV will remain a non-competitive afterthought in this class - as it should.