What's the best vehicle for my needs?

sebring95

Unless you're driving the car at 9/10ths all the time, the turbo 4 should return better economy. I could get along fine with one because most of my commute is normal 55-70mph stuff, but I occasionally need to blast around someone on a short passing zone.

demigawd

Wow, that's great reassurance. So Turbo is actually a benefit for passing in and out of traffic, rather than a detriment because of lag, if I'm understanding you correctly.

I've committed to hunting down G35x's, but I also need to keep some of my options open. Assuming I abandoned the absolute requirement for an AWD, but instead wanted a compact turbo car (sub-7 0-60) with a good reputation for maintenance and good handling in wintery Chicago conditions, what would you recommend? I was thinking something in the mold of a 1999 Saab 9-3 turbo that a friend of mine used to have. He had it in a hatchback and I really enjoyed riding in it. It could park easily because of the size, but had a great interior and could haul-[non-permissible content removed]. I've heard that the newer Saabs have really lost their reputation for quality, which prevents me from going for a 2003+ model. The fast Jettas fit that mold too (and, according to a post here, handle well in the winter), but I've heard bad things about THEIR reliability and maintenance as well. So is there a car that fits that mold but retains high reliability and reasonable maintenance costs?

qbrozen

So Turbo is actually a benefit for passing in and out of traffic, rather than a detriment because of lag, if I'm understanding you correctly.

Yes.

I can't suggest either Saab or VW as reliable vehicles.

I would suggest Volvo, however. I don't think it will be quite as reliable as Infiniti, but I've had good luck with them. My S70 T5 was one of the best vehicles I ever owned. Was great in the snow, the high-pressure turbo made it a blast to drive, and it was supremely comfortable. However, I did have to put some money into it at around the 100k mile mark (suspension, ABS module, turbo oil seal), but I don't think that's unreasonable, especially since I drove it so hard.

And, keeping on that turbo vs NA thing, I netted right around 24 mpg with the S70 during its stay with me. That was a 236hp turbo 5-cyl 2.3 liter. The 3.5liter 280hp 350Z that followed used to return 25.5mpg. The 3.2liter V6 Accord after that was 26.5mpg. So, again, turbo'ing a smaller engine does not automatically equal better mileage.

demigawd

I googled some photos of the S70 T5. It looks around the same size as the G35, possibly larger. Is there a smaller Volvo with the same or better performance?

qbrozen

There is the 2004.5 and up S40 T5. Can also be had with AWD, but I don't see it as necessary when it is FWD normally. I would think you could find an '04.5 or '05 S40 T5 FWD in your pricerange.

The S60 is the model that replaced the S70. The S60 is a tad tighter inside than the G35, but not by much. In the S60, when i have the driver's seat set to where I'd be comfortable, nobody can get behind me. In the G, it is still tight behind me, but someone could get their legs in there. I don't know how the outside dimensions compare, however.

I was considering suggesting an S60R for you, but finding a clean one in your range may be tough. Plus, I went through this choice myself (S60R vs G35X) and bought the Infiniti. The S60R was more appealing, but the G35X won for what I anticipate will be lower lifetime operating costs.

Even now, though, just 1 year into my '04 G35X ownership, I find myself wondering what it would be like to own an '06 S60R now. ;b

demigawd

ha, I think we have similar tastes in cars. After you mentioned the S70, I started looking up the entire Volvo line and came upon the S60R, which seems VERY enticing to me. It sounds like from what you're saying that the S60R is more expensive than the G35x, but looking at the prices used, it appears that the S60R has a substantial discount (the advantage of worse resale value, it seems). The G35x's I've seen in my area average about $17,000 for a 2005 model at 40,000 miles. The S60R models with the same specs average about $14,000. The cost of ownership appears to be similar. So I'll have to add that to my list of things to check out.

What do you guys know about Evolve? I've seen some mentions of an S60R Evolve edition, and it sounds like some kind of modification package. Any information about it? The price? Upside? Downside?

qbrozen

I believe the EVOLVE was an aftermarket body kit, pretty much.

You are finding '05s with 40k miles for $14k? That would be much cheaper than I've been seeing them for.

In any case, the reason I had a bit of a problem with it was that you have to get an '06 if you want the better automatic trans. The '04 and '05 had a weak 5-speed auto where the manufacturer limited torque in the first 2 gears to protect it. The '06 has a 6-speed auto that is not limited, so it is substantially faster. Knowing that, I just couldn't settle for an '04 or '05. PLUS, there are some known issues, like angle gear failure, that can bite you later on. So, all things considered, I decided to go with the safer, cheaper bet.

erniesdad

I've just started to consider buying a new car, and I'm a bit all over the place as to what I'm looking for. Last year, I rented a couple of crossover SUVs while on vacation, and I found that they were very convenient for loading my bike into and out of, and that I felt safer with the bike in the back of an suv rather than keeping the bike externally on the trailer rack mounted on my 1995 Crown Vic LX with the performance package.

I was also pretty impressed with the performance of both vehicles(A Ford Edge and a Toyota RAV4). So, I've started doing some browsing Edmunds, Autotrader etc looking at both crossovers and station wagons, and the odd hatchback, and the more I look, the more confused I get, because I see more candidates that might fill my need for an MLCUV(Mid-Life-Crisis-Utility-Vehicle) :P

I'm looking for the following:

1. The ability to hold a bike inside the cargo area with out having to remove the rear wheel, and if possible not remove either wheel,

2. Performance and handling better than the crown vic, 0-60 performance under 8 seconds, and preferably around 7 seconds or less(unlikely, but I can dream)

3. An AWD drivetrain, preferably, then RWD, then FWD. Auto is preferable to stick, but I can drive either.

4) Navigation and/or Ipod compatibility.

5) Not GM or Chrysler

6)NOT BE A MINIVAN!!!!!111!!!

Basically, I'm willing to go new or used, with a price under 32K, and mileage under 35K. I'm all over the place on what to buy, but the following cars have tickled my fancy:

Audi A3
Audi A4
Acura RDX
BMW 3 series wagon
BMW X3
Infiniti FX35
Infiniti EX35
Mazda cx-7
Mazda cx-9
Mazdaspeed 3
Subaru WRX
Toyota RAV4 V6

I'm trying to reduce the number of different models to look at, but every time I go to Autotrader.com or browse edmunds, I wind up adding a model or two that I will need to test drive this summer, without removing any models. At one point, I was even looking at Audi S4 v8 wagons for a bit. So, anything I've missed, or any cars I should strike off the list?

suydam

Bikes will fit in the back of the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe vehicles, and also in the Honda Fit. Both are FWD and have excellent fuel economy -- is that a consideration? The RAV-4 is a good choice too. Are you looking at a Mazda3 hatchback? That might be the best combination of price, performance and handling of the vehicles you list.

qbrozen

Well, do you need to use the backseat while the bike is in there? That could narrow the list. For instance, I know it would knock the EX35 off your list.

You have a good list there.

If you only require 7 secs, you don't need the highest performance models of each. So an Impreza vs WRX and mazda3 vs mazdaspeed3. I don't think a Mazdaspeed3 can be had with automatic, anyway.

I'd also suggest putting a Forester XT on your list. I would take the CX9 off, as it is much larger than all the others, so I don't think its what you are looking for. And you might reconsider the Audis if you are looking for longterm reliability.

If it were my list, it would be...
new: WRX wagon, Mazdaspeed3
used: EX35, 3-series wagon, V70R, Forester XT

And I'm pretty sure the Forester and 3-series wouldn't make the cut to round 2.

dtownfb

It looks like your car will qualify for the new "Cash for Clunkers" progam since your Crown Vic is rated at 17 mpg combined. Depending on what you purchase, you could get $3500 rebate. Here's a link to the websit: http://www.cars.gov/

The RAV4 and Forrester would be my first choice but they might be too practical for your tastes.

plekto

I'd say the Honda Element, the Rav-4, and the XTerra.(if only because you can get it with manual and it's competent off-road as well - not bad for $25K before haggling and rebates. (cars direct is exactly $22K out the door)

Also, if you don't mind removing the front wheel(no biggie , IMO), the Honda Fit also will work as the rear seats fold up.

shake15

I want to upgrade from my current car, but I can't decide what to get. My budget is around 15k and roughly an extra 2k towards any upgrades I might want. I currently have my eyes set on 5 different cars: 1994-1997 Mitsubishi 3000gt VR-4, 2001 BMW M5, 2003 BMW M3, 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe, and a 2003 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT. I want a high performance car that's under 13 second 1/4 miles. I'm also looking for something that will have a stylish exterior and interior. The most import thing is the performance though. Thanks for any help.

banditboy

I would the Mazda Speed 3 in their. You can get a newer one for that price as they are 21 K new.

suydam

>I'd say the Honda Element, the Rav-4, and the XTerra.<

Not exactly what I think of in terms of performance and handling. You did say you liked the RAV-4 though.

dash5

I think that covers it. I would like a used sporty luxury sedan that can fit a car seat in it.

I'm riding around in a 2001 Volkswagen Jetta and it's time to treat myself. The car I want needs to be at least as roomy inside as my Jetta, but I'd also like it to be sporty, safe and have luxury features. Also, front wheel or all wheel drive, good in snow.

Looking to spend around 15-18k, again this is used obviously. Nothing older than 2002, nothing over say 60k miles.

To that end I've been thinking:

BMW 3 series (325xi, 330xi)
Mercedes C class
Volvo S60/S70
Acura TL
Audi A4/A6

Any advice? It doesnt have to have *amazing* performance in terms of sports car, I value a powerful but clean, quiet, smooth ride with a nice interior and cockpit. Also needs to be able to handle a car seat for my son and comfortable for adults in rear too would be nice!

plekto

>I'd say the Honda Element, the Rav-4, and the XTerra.

He did say 0-60 in under 8 seconds. With a manual, he will easily accelerate as fast as the traffic around him. Also, due to the fact that they get those ratings by dropping the clutch at redline and hammer it to death to get those ratings.(read 50 such launches before the transmission pretty much eats itself).

What really matters is transitional speeds and getting in and out of traffic. Any V6 will be competant enough.

qbrozen

All decent cars in your list. Although, if you want to keep long-term costs down, I might toss the Benz and Audi.

IMHO, the S60 is the best semi-luxo used-car bargain, if you want FWD. BUT, the back seat is kinda tight for your purposes. For AWD, also consider the G35X. It is a tad roomier than the S60, but you will suffer quite the fuel penalty.

qbrozen

With a manual, he will easily accelerate as fast as the traffic around him

Poster said he wants auto, though.

qbrozen

Hmmm... I don't think any of those are cars someone should consider who is "on a budget," if it is going to be your daily driver. The corvette is probably the most durable and least expensive to fix. I'm not familiar with the long-term reliability of the Cobra, however. I would definitely knock the VR4 off the list. I've heard too many stories about the overcomplexity of them and all the things that can/will go wrong.

Stylish is in the eye of the beholder.

In any case, I think there are other options that might serve you better. How about a WRX? Doesn't take all that much to bump those up to amazing performance levels. Or a 300ZX turbo. Would be FAR cheaper to purchase, giving you LOTS of leftover money for upgrades and maintenance.

dash5

Thanks for the reply. Yes I keep hearing about the Audi and long term costs. Good point there.

Do you have any input on the BMW 3 series AWD's? I'm curious if the ride is smooth and quiet and how big it is compared to say my Jetta. Or is it more of a sports car, rough and louder revving.

Thanks again, will definitely check out the S60's.

sebring95

I'm personally quite fond of the 3-series and a nice certified unit is hard to beat. The 330xi and X3 are both terrific vehicles IMHO. I've shopped this class and if I decide to buy a car it will be one of those. Find one with 20k miles with lots of original warranty plus the certified.....worst part of the depreciation is gone. I forget your budget, but this post applies to the other guy looking at them as well. The models with sport packages might ride rougher than you want, but it's basically an even better Jetta in every way.

qbrozen

The 3-series is great, but a bit more expensive. Plus, you want to take a good hard look at the rear seat room. Bring the car seat with you, install it, then sit in the seat in front of it. Its not that you can't get away with it. I would. But most people with carseats seem to want more room.

zdogs

If you're driving a Jetta (and like it) why not look at the Passat? The 2.0 Turbo is pretty sporty and you can get a much newer one (06 - 08) for your budget than you can with the other models you listed. Plus they are very roomy in the backseat. Took a quick look on Autotrader and found an '08 2.0T with 21K miles for $19k. A few 2006 models at Carmax for $15k-$16k.

sebring95

The newer Jetta's are also bigger than the 2002 so even that might be a good option and the turbo has pretty good performance. It's not a bmw...but closer than most others.

exb0

Based on your criteria, TL would be the best option.

It is more reliable than any others that you have listed. Routine maintenance will be cheaper than any other. Back seat is roomy enough for a car seat. I had my niece in a car seat with no problems. I don&#146;t know what you mean by comfortable for adults, but I am 6&#146;1&#146; and my teenage son doesn&#146;t like sitting behind me. There is enough room for him; he just can&#146;t stretch his legs out like he does in a minivan.

Avoid the 04 model year, but anything after that would be fine.

erniesdad

Rather than reply individuall, I'll do it all in this post:
To suydam:
>>
Bikes will fit in the back of the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe vehicles, and also in the Honda Fit. Both are FWD and have excellent fuel economy -- is that a consideration?
>>
They're a little too close to an econobox for my tastes. The most powerful engine in the Matrix is 158hp. A bit too weak for my tastes, imho.

To gbrozen:
>>
Well, do you need to use the backseat while the bike is in there? That could narrow the list.
>>
Frankly, I rarely if ever use the backseat now. The only one who spends time back there is my dog. In a perfect world, I'd be able to slide the bike into one half of the back seat, and the dog can sleep on the other half.

>>
If you only require 7 secs, you don't need the highest performance models of each. So an Impreza vs WRX and mazda3 vs mazdaspeed3. I don't think a Mazdaspeed3 can be had with automatic, anyway.
>>
Sure, I don't need it, but.... The lack of an automatic can be an issue though. I can drive a stick, but I'm not sure, long term, if I'd enjoy rowing a stick, when I'm not enjoying Walter Mittyesque dreams of a career as an F1 driver. If this was a second, "fun" car, then a stick wouldn't be an obstacle at all.

>>
And you might reconsider the Audis if you are looking for longterm reliability.
>>
I just looked at the CR used car guide at the reliability ratings for Audis. Ouch.

to dtownfb:
I started checking out the Cash for Clunkers program. I'm not sure most of the cars I'm looking at would qualify me for it. Personally, I think the program is a massive waste, and place an artificial floor on the price of used cars, which will take a lot of good used cars away from the poor. Ok, off the soapbox now.
>>
XTerra
>>
No.
>>
Rav-4
>>
V6 maybe. 4-banger, no.
Honda Fit
>>
No.
>>
Honda Element
>>
MINIVAN!!!111!!!!

suydam

so as I suggested, the Mazda3 hatch might be a good fit for you. Available in auto and fun to drive as well. WRX also might be on your list. Let us know as you drive them!

plekto

Heh. Looks like the RAV-4 might be a winner, then, or a serious contender.

Note - the older, smaller version of the RAV4 is very good as well. It's OK with the 4 if you get manual because can rev it silly all day long. At ~4K RPM, it leaps into traffic like a scalded dog. Especially the smaller, slightly lighter previous gen Rav-4. I have a co-worker here at work who has one - 4 cylinder with manual - and it goes as fast as a Camry V6. Clutch is very light and easy. Looks a bit funky, though... but maybe you'll like it?

Also consider a previous gen extended cab Tacoma, if only because they are indestructible and have 4WD for bad weather. The previous gen also had less bling and plastic and was a bit smaller, making it a LOT easier to get in and out of traffic. the current one is honestly the same exact size as a 1990 or so F150.

The 4 it both are the same engines(think the V6 as well).

Other than that, I'm drawing a blank. Everything else is a minivan or SUV or some kind of mutant "softroader" thing.

demigawd

I just got back from renting an S40 2.4i. I was hoping to get my hands on an S60R, but they're almost impossible to find as a rental unit. At first, I was unimpressed with the performance of the S40. It didn't seem any faster than, say, the Camry I rented the week before. Of course, I really liked the interior and the stereo and all of that. But what I really wanted was PERFORMANCE.

And then I noticed the little M on the shift.

I googled it and discovered that it was something called Geartronic, some kind of sorta-manual option. I've never driven a manual before, so I don't know anything about them, but I did some quick reading at work, and decided to give it a shot with the M mode.

Oh my god! Is this what I've been missing in not driving a manual? It made a HUGE difference. See, my problem was never simply wanting a really fast car. It was more about car reaction time than anything else. I didn't want some other car taking an opening in highway traffic, because I found that slipping through the crevices in traffic often made the difference between getting home at 6:30 and getting home at 7:20. But that annoying two second pause while the car slows down, gets back to speed, and then accelerates would always close my window of opportunity, or sometimes put me in dangerous situations where I'm not accelerating as quickly as the car coming up behind me.

But this M - it changed everything because now I don't have to wait for the car to decide what to do, it just does it. I can't believe how quickly it reacts now.

Now what I do is when I'm cruising on open road, I'll drive it in 5. When I'm in light, or high speed traffic I'll drive it in 4, and quickly switch to 3 when accelerating. The lag time is about half of what it is in full auto, and can always catch the openings now. And when I'm in moderate or medium speed traffic, I'll actually drive it in 3, and not switch gears at all. It reacts instantaneously. I've been able to catch 90% of the openings. And I don't have to know a thing about clutches and all that to be able to drive this. It's brilliant.

While I'll never go full out manual, I've fallen in love with this half-auto/half-manual concept. I need to know what other cars have that or a similar feature.

Any suggestions? Is this an option on the entire Volvo line?

sebring95

The manual mode is common in most automatics these days. Implementation and operation can be different, but it's common. VW has a DSG transmission which really operates like a manual (it technically is a manual but without a clutch) and it REALLY feels like a manual. I've never been overly excited about the "manumatic" types but it can help for instances like you mention. Some have paddle shifters or buttons on the steering wheels to shift as well.

qbrozen

As sebring said, you'll find it on most cars these days. However, some work better than others. Volvo's geartronic is pretty good in that it will hold the gear you select rather than take control back from you and shift when you hit redline. It is not the fastest reacting, though.

Also, I wanted to point out that you rented a 2.4i. So, no, it is no faster than a Camry. And, in fact, a Camry V6 will blow its doors off. What you really want to try is the T5 model. Off the top of my head, I think its about 60 more hp and about the same increase in torque, too.

demigawd

You mentioned that Volvo's geartronic is not the fastest reacting - what woud you say is a faster reacting one? I was pretty happy with how quickly it reacted in 2nd and 3rd gear on the highway. It was average starting from a red light, but other than that, I was pretty happy with the improvement. Then again, that's the first such semi-manual car I've ever driven, so I have no basis for comparison.

I would have loved to drive a more performance-oriented Volvo, but rental companies usually stick with the base units, for understandable reasons. So finding any turbo rentals is going to be a tall order. There aren't all that many V6s, for that matter. I was able to get my hands on an '08 Altima V6 a few weeks ago, but that's the most powerful car I've ever seen available at my local rental places (airport locations have the good stuff, but usually have rules preventing them from renting to locals - and they charge 3x the price). It accelerated beautifully, but I'm not sure if the engine had a problem because it was LOUD and never seemed to coast - it was like as soon as I released the gas, the car would start to brake itself. It limited my enjoyment of the car, I'm not sure if that's just the way the Altima is, or if there was a problem with the car, or if maybe there was a configuration on there that I didn't know about that made it that way.

sebring95

How about just hitting some car dealerships for a test drive? That way you find exactly what you're looking for and it doesn't cost you anything. If you find something you really like, they should let you keep it for a long test drive or even overnight.

carstryke

loves- Manual transmission, cargo space
hates- minivans
kids 3- 2 carseats 1 booster seat

Budget - $32,000 cdn i think thats around $27,000-$28,000 for you americans
Can go higher than $32,000 but i would really love not to.
Any non Minivan suggestions?

plekto

Does the cargo space have to be covered? If not, a crew/double cab pickup might be a good option.

Volvo, Subaru, and a few others make mini wagons/wagons with manuals.

And of course, there's always things like a 4Runner or similar that aren't yuppie soft-roaders or minivans with AWD crammed on them and lifted.

suydam

I hate to say it, but no other vehicle than a minivan will give you the flexibility, passenger room, and cargo space you will need as they grow up. You can get a big hulking Chevy Suburban or something like that, but you'll have more driveability, cargo room and way better fuel economy with a minivan. The alternatives are large SUVs like the Honda Pilot. Another possibility: a big Volvo station wagon. Face it. No family vehicle will be cool.

erniesdad

They're Auto, not a stick, but a ford flex or ford edge would be a pretty good fit, particularly the flex, though that's at the ragged edge of what you are looking for pricewise. The flex doesn't look much like a minivan or SUV, more like a tall station wagon. All it needs is the fake wood paneling.

fezo

Maybe this topic would be more accurately titled What's the best vehicle for my wants.

We come to this one again and again. The best vehicle to do what you want to do is a minivan - with the exception of the manual transmission part which is nearly impossible to find in one. Poor minivans have gotten such a reputation...

How about a Mazda 5? Call it a CUV or something. You can get it in a stick. Smaller than what I think of as a minivan but probably OK for 3 kids.

I really like the idea of a Flex but they somehow seem overpriced to me.

plekto

Wait a minute - let's look at his actual list:

****
loves- Manual transmission, cargo space
hates- minivans
kids 3- 2 carseats 1 booster seat
***
OK - he has two requirements, manual aside. (if he's asking for manual only, trust me - he's a manual purist most likely and will sacrifice almost anything to keep this desire) Obviously he'd not wish to do that...

1 - it needs a wide rear seat or a third row. Compact is out, but *some* midisze and large vehicles can fit 2 car seats and a booster in the middle position.

2 - wants cargo space or at least the ability to put a full trip's worth of luggage and stuff in the back with the 3 kids in it.

That means he wants a truck, real SUV, or a large sedan. If he wanted automatic, I'd have recommended something like a large sedan, but that's a very small list with manual. Three cars, actually - the Camry with the 4 cylinder engine, the Volvo S60/(or wagon), and the last generation Altima. That's it for cars.

So let's move to smaller SUVs that would work. The Jeep Patriot is technically a minivan/softroader but doesn't look or drive like one. The Wrangler Unlimited, of course, oozes coolness and fits his every button. The RAV4 can be had with manual, though it's a TIGHT fit for 3 kids.

My gut still says a small double-cab pickup. A crew cab with V6 and manual can be had from some of the makers. 4WD for bad weather. Almost all of them are reliable as can be, since it's 90% of the time the automatics that fail and cost tons of money.(ie - Jeep with automatic is no good - manual is so simple even Chrysler can't mess it up). The same goes for any of the makers, even Ford and GM.

3/4 of the makers sell a small pickup with a double-cab and manual as an option. So there's tons of choices as well. If you want to, get a shell for the cargo area.(oh - plus you can tow with them better than a SUV) Plus, there's no minivan or yuppie image, either. Yet you are up high above traffic unlike a car.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=264118920
Hard to find, but a few crew cabs with manual were made/special ordered.(though 99% chance it's a V6 and not a 4 as the ad states)

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=262079084
There were a few Tacomas made like this as well, and I think you can STILL special order one/have one built new for you like this. The advantage here is that it doesn't weigh as much as a full size pickup or SUV and is easier to park.(if just barely - mostly due to better visibility of your corners)

The Nissan Frontier, the Ford Ranger, and the Dodge all can or could be had in the last few years with manual and a V6 and a double/crew cab. Though, you might have to get a certified one in some cases. GM stopped making trucks with manuals entirely a year or two ago, other than their full-size work chassis, IIRC.

carstryke

thank you all for your guys responses they were helpful.

sebring95

Just scratch the manual transmission off the list along with the goofy recommendation by the other poster for a truck (as a family vehicle...please). I've got a nice selection of vehicles sitting here to pick from. Odyssey is best familiy vehicle bar none but you have an aversion to them so that's your loss. I pretty much haven't seen an SUV or Minivan that was sexy, so I lump them in the "ugly but functional category either way.

I have a crew-cab Tundra and it's a lousy family vehicle...can't imagine going to a Tacoma or similar small fry. 4Runner might be ok...(wife has GX470) but the back seat with 3 carseats/boosters is a cramped mess. 3rd row is trash on most of these mid-size SUV type things.

You might be able to get into a BMW 5-series wagon with a manual transmission, but back seat will still be tight.

GMC Acadia/Buick Enclave is about the best crossover type non-minivan that actually has decent space AND easy access to 3rd row AND cargo capacity. Might be able to grab a lower end used model in your price range. Ford Flex is interesting but just as compromied as the others when it comes down to it.

plekto

Gah. Tundras are huge bloated behemoths. But a crew cab midsize truck is perfectly fine inside and every bit as decent and spacious as a SUV's passenger area. Lighter and easier to drive as well. A 4Runner is a huge bloated whale by comparison to most of these things. But he has to try to fit the seats in. Some vehicles are huge for their size and others like the CTS are basically 2+2s due to their somehow cramped rear seats. Some also offer a bench seat up front, which might work as well since the airbags don't cover the center position.

He'll have to try and test things out though...

If he wants a manual, well, he wants a manual. Automatic plus SUV or Minivan... if it was me, and I feel a lot like this guy I bet, I'd rather gnaw off my left leg and wheel myself off to a retirement home than accept such a bland soulless driving experience.

Also, the 3rd row is without a doubt a marketing ploy and not intended for real use in almost every SUV and minivan. Why? Because with the exception of a very few vehicles, it's back of the rear axle and therefore part of the crumple zone itself. If you get rear-ended at 35-40mph, any child in the rear will die barring an act of God.(same problem existed in the past for rear seats in station wagons as well, which is why nobody offers them any more) Many like the 3rd row on the RAV-4 are less than a foot from the rear window.

BMW - worst reliability possible other than maybe Mercedes SUVs. And also hugely expensive. I suspect that he wants to stay under $25K if possible Call it a hunch, given the three young kids...

dash5

Thanks again to all who responded. Yes exb0 the TL seems to be a good choice too.

Right now I'm weighing:

Acura TL 2005
Volvo S60 2006
BMW 3 series 2005

or... as a wildcard..

2007 Toyota Camry XLE

Going to check those out. My next question, do I go with one of the above or bite the bullet and spend whatever it costs (within reason) to get a 2007 model with say 20k miles on it.

2007 base TL with under 40k miles seems to run $24-25k while a 2005 with 40k miles is under $18,000 in some cases.

The 2007 got such great reviews from Edmunds. is 6k worth it for a newer model year and fewer miles? Worth it in the sense of future resale value. Decisions decisions...

sebring95

There's no mid-size truck/suv that can seat three car seats across comfortably or at all. I had a Tacoma before the Tundra....I'm familiar. My Tundra is '06 so not as bulky as the '07+ and it seats three across ok.....but it's still a miserable family vehicle in my book. Far better than my Tacoma in most every way, but still a lousy family vehicle.

Reliability wasn't on his list and BMW is not that bad and regardless has a good warranty. They can be bought in his price range. Great performance, manual tranny, good cargo room, not a minivan.

plekto

Well, he will have to measure and judge vehicle by vehicle no matter what he does short of buying a Surburban or something with three real rows of seating that are all ahead of the rear axle.(likely a full size SUV)

fritzi2

My daughter, one year out of college and working as a part-time computer tech, needs a car. The one we bought her when she graduated from high school finally died. She has $1,000 - 1,500 for a down payment but doesn't make enough to qualify for a loan. She found the perfect car at a local dealership and they were sure that they could get financing for her but, even with a 713 credit score, she failed unless she was willing to pay 20%+ interest on an 18 month loan that made her payments more than double what she could afford. I'm beginning to think that a repo is about the only thing she will be able to buy but, after hours of searching the internet, I can't seem to find anywhere to go to buy one. Can anyone point this very frustrated, unemployed mother in the right direction??? :sick:

jeffyscott

Also, the 3rd row is without a doubt a marketing ploy and not intended for real use in almost every SUV and minivan. Why? Because with the exception of a very few vehicles, it's back of the rear axle and therefore part of the crumple zone itself. If you get rear-ended at 35-40mph, any child in the rear will die barring an act of God.

I never knew this, good thing my kids are all grown now, so I only have retrospective guilt for having regularly risked their lives by having at least one of them in that back row of our Windstar (we actually did consider a Suburban before buying the minivan, but it was just too huge, not to mention much more expensive).

jeffyscott

Is she a member of a credit union? If not, she might consider joining one as they may have money to loan her at more reasonable rates. I know ours has been advertising this fact for quite some time.

A repo may not necessarily be that cheap, as they tend to be newer cars. A lot of cheap used cars, especially those being sold by private parties, are on craigslist. In my area some dealers that fix up and sell salvaged cars advertise on craigslist.org as well as autotrader.com and cars.com...those tend to be cheap, by dealer standards anyway.

In my area there are companies that rent older cars for as little as, I think, $10 per day. Perhaps something like that could be a temporary solution while she looks?

plekto

That's silly, really.

Here's what to do - get a used car for her for about $4K. Let her pay you back. Yes, it might be a decade old, but there are plenty of decent older vehicles out there.

What are her criteria for a vehicle?

****
About the rear seat/3rd row....

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/fifth-gear-season-15-episode-1-airdate-0105200- - 9/2589390523
Let it load for 4-5 minutes and then scroll forward to 38:00 Quite sobering.

(or go back 5 minutes and see some Ferrari car porn all about the California model...) :P