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Tundra vs the Big 3 - Continued II

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  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Thanks for the info, Tim. I can't believe that chevy has no rear window slider available. I checked your story on the cracks. Apparently, it's the silverado cab doing in the rear windows (too much flex). The fix was to scrape the slider and mount a solid piece of glass. It's held on with 1/2" thick bead of clear silicone caulking. This allows the rear cab frame to twist and flex without breaking the window. Anyone out there have a rear slider on 99-00 silverado?
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    You know, that if the frame wasn't flexing, then the cab would have no reason to flex. Just a thought.
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    I've noticed that the chevy has a larger gap between the cab and bed than the Fords. Could this be for accommodating frame flex/fatique?
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    I noticed the same thing - GM wasted about 1.5 inches between the bed and cab. I also noticed how "raw" the F-150 looks between the bed and the rear door. Right at the point where the read door opens. Looks like they ran out of design $$ when the got around to putting the rear doors on. .
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    Have you ever watched the gap between the cab and bed on a Chevy going done the highway?? It's kinda scary how much they flex. The '99 and up Chevy's aren't as bad, but they still flex more than a Ford or Dodge. It is really noticeable on extended cab models. I guess with the longer frame and heavier cab. I know the new frame is supposed to be technologically advanced and yada yada yada, but they still can only say it is the strongest frame ever put under a "Chevy" truck. As to the flexing, I just know someone will get on here and expound about the differences between strength and rigidity, and I already know about that, so spare us. It is a fact, though, that Chevy's just don't have as heavy of frames as a Ford's.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    BLAH BLAH BLAH this is ridiculous you can go back and forth all day.

    Buy whatever flippin truck floats (or tows) your boat and be happy who cares what the Joe next to you has as long as he likes it good.

    Ryan
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    I agree. I compared my brother's explorer and his cheyenne 2500 (both were bought at a wholesale auction). The frames had identical guage steel and the frame dimesions of the 3/4 ton chevy were only slightly larger. The other thing I've seen on some chevy's is a black rubber trim piece designed to hide the gaping space between cab and bed. The ford rear door is a little exposed. I think Toyota fixed this when they copied the Ford.
  • oldharryoldharry Member Posts: 413
    on the 97+ F-150 wraps around the cab, so you don't see the flex as much. Most of it is from compliance in the rubber cab and box mounts instead of the frame itself flexing. Designers say that customers don't like seeing light through sections of the vehicle, so in the future we may see more ways to block it similar to the Ford. Even farm equipment makers are looking into this. My son is a design engineer for one of them, and it is something he has to take into concideration in his work.

    Harry
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    I should just drive my Chevy to the junkyard now and save myself some time. I see all kinds of trucks where the cab just falls off or breaks. LOL...
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    Who said the cab would fall off?
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    The Ford did a good job of hiding a small gap. Obviously there has to be some room between the cab and bed. Chevy seems to have an extra wide gap compared to the rest. This may be to accomadate their longest wheelbase trucks.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    to have a gap.

    - Tim
  • jec2jec2 Member Posts: 3
    For what its worth. The first time I saw a Ford super duty with that big square chrome grill, I thought it was a dodge.
  • oldharryoldharry Member Posts: 413
    currently looking for a truck, and for my taste, I will get a GMC or Chevrolet. My big debate right now is 1500 vs 2500. I'll probably go 1500, as my son has a C-2500 I can use when I need to haul something heavy. Last month he was working on a deck, and filled the box to the top with 16 foot and 12 foot pressure treated lumber, then to prevent any from tipping off the back he threw ten bags of Sakrete acrossed the ends at the front of the eight foot box before tying everything down. Try that with your Tundra! The week before 2300 pounds of decorative landscaping rock didn't bottom the springs, even on bumps.

    Hmm, maybe I should go with the 2500. I'll get and older C/K, because I like for someone else to lose the first year depreciation.

    Harry
  • f150rulesf150rules Member Posts: 195
    Tundra....no limited slip diff, among many other things. Which is more important? In a real truck, the truck-like options are far more important than the luxury car-like options. Ford and Chevy are the number one and number 2 sellers of trucks for a reason.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    I agree with you on the heated seats i dont care for them. But where do you happen to live? I live close to chicago and we get below zero temps and the heated seats did come in handy on my dads Blazer this past winter the few times i drove it. I wouldnt personally get it i can deal with a cold seat for awhile but it does help and work. Just a little extravagent if you ask me.

    Ryan
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    Don't believe everything you see on BON. They are good, but sometimes they do have incorrect info. I'm not saying that is the case in this instance, just something to consider when reading BON.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    ...is pop can thin. The most unflattering view is the pickup bed itself. They should put a liner in every one. The Tundra I test drove two weeks ago had 3 miles on the odometer, but the bed looked distorted. I think it's supported on pads, to raise it up, give it room for a sheet of plywood between the wheel wells. There are several unpainted pan head torx fasteners, sticking up from the surface. The metal should have crisply stamped ridges, but looks stressed.
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Your still test driving Tundras? I thought that brand new silverado you bought was the greatest. Sounds like your still looking for truck. Check out tundrasolutions.com topic "how much have you carried in your Tundra"
    The Tundra uses 6 galvinized torx55 bolts to hold on the bed. As for crisp edges...not really sure what part your talking about. Take a look at your chevy spot welds. The ones on the bed lip. They are unevenly spaced (both laterally and vertically). The welds also vary in actual bond. Very inconsistent quality!
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    You bet I test drove it when I saw V8 4x4 in the paper for $22,800 at John Elway Toyota. The problem is Robbie, imperfect as my Silverado is, the little tindra isn't half the truck I'd be giving up. You should be so open minded and try one on for SIZE. It's obvious you too are taking a closer look these days, not just for bashing purposes I'm sure.

    Pay attention to the head room, the size of the glass surfaces, put the seat all the way back...it's like a tacoma. If you call that full size, you haven't been there.

    Make you a promise...next time up I'll consider all the trucks, including Toyota. Tundra wasn't out when I bought the Silverado. But a year and a half later, my decision would be the same. There just are not enough compelling features to change at this time, no matter how hard you try and explain away size, or cantilevered pumpkins and dancing bears, Tundra size is a Boo Boo. And it's payload and towing are overstated likewise.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    I agree with quad. I test drove a tundra last august for the heck of it. My mom was out test driving a four runner so i said what the heck. Rode nice but the interior room to put it nicely "sucked". I was very uncomfortable. I didnt test drive a dodge or ford but i did sit in them and they seemed to have (at least to me they did) a plain dash. The first time i sat in the silverado i knew this truck was for me. It fit me perfectly. Only thing that seems to be a problem is to much room gotta really stretch to give my girlfriend a kiss.

    Ryan
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    you two need a room Ryan?

    - Tim
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    The silverado is basically a room.

    Ryan
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    If you press the OnStar button, you get room service
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    wow thats cool. Might have to get a 2001 LT now. That would be great

    Ryan
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    What a piece of junk I bought. Thanks for clueing me in. Not only will the cab fall off cause it flexes so much, but the weld spots are uneven in the bed leading me to believe I can't carry anything. Probably just fall though the bed eh? Besides the shakes and rattles it has this is a real piece of garbage! Where the closest Toyota dealership??? I want a Tundra just like yours...
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    don't do it!..get back from the ledge!...there is so much more to live for!

    - Tim
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    ...I've heard it said, when we joke there is always a little truth behind it.
  • dodgeram7dodgeram7 Member Posts: 55
    You said the Ford & dodge dashes look to plain. Well i drove a Chevy and their interior looks to cheap. I would buy a Ford or Dodge any day before i would get a Chevy the have better quality materials in their trucks then Chevy.
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    I just don't feel all the extra room you talk about when I've drove the silverado. In fact driving my brothers cheyenne, I always have to lean forward to see out from under the roof at traffic lights because my head is so close to the top. This may be because the chevy has a more upright seat (felt like to me) while the Tundra seat is more stretched out. The only thing I'm jealous of would be the gas mileage. The best I can get is 19 MPG @65-70. It doesn't help to go any slower, but I lose 1.5 MPG @75-80. This is with 2 hang gliders sitting on 3 racks. It could be worse I guess (5.9 liter Dakota comes to mind).
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Thought you had a ford? Sorry if you took the bed comment personally. I just call them like I see them. I'll let you know about some poor quality workmanship on my Tundra. I'm still looking, it may take awhile. I put the truck up on jacks yesterday to rotate the tires and have a good look at everything (12,000 miles). Found a problem....a screw in a tire. Other than that I'm impressed with the truck. The frame is made very stiff and strong. When I looked under the Silverado I noticed the tubular crossmember in the rear was only partially welded at the insertion points. Is this the same on all the Silverados or just a few that slipped by? Quad?
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    rwell,
    had me worried there for a moment, but knew you couldn't find a problem with the Tundra...
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    Rwell
    There are very few welds on the new GM truck frames. Hydroformed rails allow you to form almost the entire piece w/o welding, which makes a strong, uniformly produced piece, with no brittling caused by weld. Nor is there any need for subsequent heat treatments. Very high tooling cost to produce this feature, but the high annual volumes of the frame (900K trucks, 500K sport utes) make it a very cost wise and engineering wise decision.

    The fact that the Chevy backseat is bigger than the Toyota front seat is not obvious to you?

    i'll say it again, Toyota has made a fine truck. That's 7/8 size with no options. thats probably good for a few percentage points. just like the sales figures show...
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    gas mileage a little lower than a Silverado? No way. Well, maybe it's all that power that I-Force V-8 has. One of the most powerful trucks (if not the most powerful) out there, so it probably will use a little more fuel...
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    I repaired the hole myself with one of those DIY plugs the tire shop warns you never to use. What do you guys think? I've used them before and they worked like champs. The brakes looked fine with no warp at all (even after a lady cooked them for me driving down a steep mountain road). The rear wheel bearings had just the tiniest bit of in-out play, which is normal on any truck. Anyone checked their Silverado frame, yet? I'm curious about the weld on that tubular crossmember.
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    I was comparing the front seats. There is no way the chevy backseat is more upright than the Tundra. ;)
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    rwell
    W/o even seeing one of the tubular cross members, I ask you--why does there need to be a weld there? Cross members sole purpose of existence is to prevent torsion strain of the main frame members. Force is only applied at the ends.

    Not saying I know exactly what is involved, but cross members in many trucks aren't even tubes, they are channel iron of some sort.

    There could be a 3/4" gap in the tube, and it can still do its job as designed.

    So why again do you care?

    [pause for searching]
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Rwell....any more ignorant remarks?

    Cdean..don't bother wasting your time on these folks who only know what the comic books tell them. Oh no!....that non-welded cross member...you know..the one that makes it stronger and safer!

    kids...what ya gonna do with them?

    - Tim
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Robbie may have some trouble finding flaws with his Tundra, but I found lots to nit pick about. Take the weak air conditioner. Maybe it's good enough to cool down a smaller cab, but doesn't match the powerful blast I get from mine, which has 5 fan speeds, 4 on Tundra. On position 4, the Tundra fan was quite noisy also. The horn is absurdly weak. Then there are the seats. I would weep crocodile tears at the mere thought of trading my plush buckets on those thin corolla like chairs. Even if they are comfortable at first, they don't look sturdy at all.
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Your comparison of fan speeds mad me laugh. Reminded me of the movie "spinal tap". Most bands had amplifiers that went from 1-10, but these guys modified the settings to read 1-11. Didn't change anything but made them feel that they were getting more.
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Sorry to bring up the frame issue but as an engineer those types of things interest me. So that's "why I care". The tube we are discussing is providing bracing for both a for-aft twisting moment of the main frame rails (same thing your saying/you just used the word torsion instead) and helping to keep the entire frame square. That is why I question the strength of what amounts to basically a tack weld. The fact that chevy's fix for the Silverado vibration problem is to beef up the frame substructure doesn't jive with statements eluding to the excellent strength of Silverado frames. So, to ask a familiar question, "why do you care"?
  • rwellbaum2rwellbaum2 Member Posts: 1,006
    Timmy,
    Is the "hehehehe" a laugh or cackle? Whenever I see it used, it reminds me of the hyenas in the "Lion King". My 2 year olds favorite movie. Yeah, I watched it too.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    just curious and to reiterate what cdean said, "why do you care?"

    It takes a lot of time and energy to post negative remarks about Chevy. You are not going to change anyone's opinion with your banter. I fail to see the purpose of your posts. In fact, your posts are becoming similar to trucksrme in being repetitious and uninformative. Just my opinion...
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    my Z-71 sticker fell off. Now what do I do? And the comic book said it wasn't going to last. Even though I've had no problems, I've got to find the Toyota dealership. That Tundra has got to be the way to go. I just hope the truck stays together when I drive it over there...
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    2 TIM??? You have seen 1 more than i have. TRD stands for what? Toyota racing development? Racing? In a truck ???

    Ryan
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Self portrait?
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Z71 sticker and molding fell off whoop dee
    dooooooooooo. Truck still ran great. Nothing
    mechanically went wrong. I heard actually that the
    sticker and molding didnt stay on because they
    cranked out a few trucks for these "magazines" and
    didnt care much about appearance just the basic
    truck so these magazine could test drive them.
    Obviously it didnt matter much to them thats why it
    was motor trends 1999 truck of the year.

    My picks for truck of the year for the next few
    yrs stand as:

    2001: ??? Lincoln blackwood possibly ???
    2002: Dodge Ram
    2003: Nissan full size dont know the name yet
    2004: Lexus pickup truck (haha im stretching it i
    know)
    2005: GMC terradyne hahaha
    Now im getting carried away

    Ryan
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    rwell
    You like to avoid the issue, and jabber enough to hide what's really important. you should be Al's running mate. I answer everything you question. reread my post and go find something real to b**ch about.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Why does toyota, ford, and dodge all put badges on the side or front of truck like toyota that say V-8??? Never seen a chevy with one. Im just curious if there is a reason. Maybe they just wanna "show off" and say look i have a V-8.???

    Ryan
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    People Love Badges. Friend of mine that works close to the industy was telling me that. Notice how Ford went from a little Powerstroke badge on the fender to a HUGE badge on the door. I think it looks kinda guady, but Joe Public likes it, for human nature showing off , so there ya go.
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