Quad, all your talk about the Tundra not having enough room and a weak air-conditioner is starting to make some folks imagine you as an uncomfortable, sweaty, fat guy. Add some Oakley glasses and a line-art sticker of Calvin from 'Calvin and Hobbes' peeing on a Ford logo on the rear window and you'd be a typical Silverado owner.
I think my Tundra's A/C cools the cab very quickly even on a hot Southern CA afternoon. I had mine last August and September, and it was just fine by me.
Maybe I don't require so much cooling because I haven't got as many square inches of body surface as you have?
work some of the time. A Carol Stream, Illinois tire dealer used one a couple years ago; and lost a twelve million dollar law suit as a result. The big problem is you don't know what the inside of the tire looks like. With a straight in screw and a tire that never lost air you have a good chance of getting by.
A proper repair includes:
Inspecting the tire - inside and out. Cleaning and cutting the puncture smooth. Installing an insert (plug). Preparing the inner liner. Patching the inner liner. Coating the repaired inner surface with seal coat.
Yes, it takes time, but the tire is less likely to fail later. I have samples cut from junk tires at the shop to show why a plug alone may fail.
in #271 you stated: "You like to avoid the issue, and jabber enough to hide what's really important. you should be Al's running mate. I answer everything you question. reread my post and go find something real to b**ch about."
get used to it. robby'll just pull some bs outta thin air, put it in a post and ignore your counters by posting more bs. it's a cycle i grew weary of. don't pay him any mind...his posts are usually pretty meaningless.
present4u: personal attacks are so...pointless. can all of us read from your post that you're a skinny, pencil-necked-geek, yuppy "typical of tundra owners"?
Seems the chevy boys are a little thin skinned about taking criticism on their silverautos. Settle down kyle, read and learn about your truck. If you don't like the truth then you'd better only stick to reading them chevy brochures. We aren't talking about your Momma, just a bunch of metal, rubber and plastic. When given specific structural critiques of chevy trucks, clear consumer documentation on their reliability or quality, domestic brand name owners start to squawkin' insults and namecalling. Some of the most intelligent arguments come from timmy: "heheheehehehe". At least their leader, old rube, tried to stick to some facts a little bit.
I ran over a large screw driver back in 1986. My tires (new truck) had about 500 miles on it. Tire shop would not use a plug to fix. The hole was about the size of a pencil. I took it to a tire place that sold tractor tires and they said no problem - I used that tire as a spare - used it 2 times in 13 years - it never lost a drop of air. I would not feel comfortable driving 80 MPH with a plug in my tire -
Why not just take the truck in and have the tire repaired. Discount tire does it for free - even if you did not buy the tire from them.
always get a patch VS a plug. Some places don't want to take the tire off to do it...but it's much better. The glue actually melts the patch to the tire...as they become one so to speak..
As far as ANY insurance type of plan goes, you're gonna get screwed. That's how the insurance companies make money. There are certain types of insurance that almost everyone agrees you can't go without, whether you're getting screw doesn't matter. You have to have it. Car insurance, home insurance, some people consider health insurance in that, too. It's always nice to be able to rest assured that you have something to cover you. Anyway back to the point, yes tire coverage is great, if you ever need it, which you probably won't, then in which case it was a waste of money. It comes down to the point of whether you have the money and want to play it safe. Me, I take my chances.
I was thinking more about services offered through a tire shop. Talkm about getting screwed. My tire sure took it in. I unscrewed the screw out of the tire and put a plug in. seems to be holding good 3 days later.
The Discount Tires suggestion was a good one. They remove the tire, take it off the rim, patch it from the inside, rebalance it, and reinstall it on your vehicle for free. They don't care where the tire came from. I have used their services several times.
topic 1638 has nothing to do with brand loyalty. I think that GM is a bunch of LURDS. They do however make a truck that fits my needs. Whether it be through buyback or all the fixin going on. I will resolve my issue. Toyota- will never buy one for the rest of my life. Can't stand the owners of the dealership--personal nothin to do with the vehicles. Ford-never liked #1 always pulled for the underdog. So that leaves me with Dodge and Chevy. I personally do not want to be associated with dodgeram7 or whatever his name is. So Dodge is out of the question. So by attrition, that leaves either GMC or Chevy. Actually, I could get by with a compact truck as haulin and towing is nonexistant. I guess I bought a full size just because I wanted to drive one. Again...loyalty has nothing to do with it. Come to think about it, this is my first Chevy ever. Chevy...like a rock with a few cracks...
What is this vibration fix you speak of on the Chevy trucks?? You said something in a topic, I can't remember which one, about them welding something on the frame to stop the vibration. What all can you tell me about that? Where can I get some info about it? Thanks.
Rwell, I answered every one of your questions, you just didn't like the answer. and i'm going to say it again.
Clinton and Gore did nothing. They talk a lot of hot air. Just like you. And you're doing it again. You totally made up 2 questions tangent to what we were talking about to try to fabricate a sense of knowlegde. just like C & G. fortunately, I can expose you pretty easily.
1. How in the hell do you know that the tack welds are a high stress area? I haven't seen them, so I can't say they're not, but my point was:....There CAN be a tack weld, in fact there doesn't even HAVE to be a tack weld in a tubular crossmember, there can be a GAP. If you are an engineer, then act like one. Here's the explanation. Crossmembers are usually in tension or compression. This causes longitudinal stress in the direction of the cross member, which can induce buckling. If you remember from engineering school (you did go didn't you?) hollow members or tubes are the BEST TO RESIST BUCKLING. As far as the welds go, they are only resisting hoop stress, which is caused mostly by internal pressure differentials. Unless you are trapping high pressure gas in your Toyota's tubular crossmembers, ITS NOT A STRESS POINT!
2. What the hell are you talking about? We've mentioned nothing about this? Another attempt to sound smart by going off on a tangent. Beef up the frame? IF you really were an engineer, you know that vibration occurs because of a natural frequency, which, though complicated in a vehicle, is derived by K/M, stiffness and mass. seems, easy, until you realize that you are dealing with rotating equipment, and that there is stiffness and mass elements in 3 directions. Beefing up the frame might cause a higher stiffness, but if you were an engineer YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THE SYSTEM STIFFNESS IS NOT DERIVED FROM FRAME ALONE: SPRINGS, TIRES, AXLES, CAB MOUNTS all add in a factor of stiffness that contributes to the overall system natural frequency. The question is, which subsystem is the largest contributor to the natural frequency? You might be a Peterbilt frame underneath it and still have a vibration if there is something else out of balance--because the WHOLE THING IS RIDING ON SPRINGS.
I don't bash Toyota, i don't cry about Chevy, I don't do that immature crap. I just hate to see people lie and make up crap just to make themselves feel big or when they try to bash others. Because some people actually come here to read material for information. You are one of those folks that make up crap, and your posts add nothing but lies for people actually trying to become informed. Thats why I rebute.
Tim, Ryan and the other combatants...i never post in these forrays, how did ya'll let me get involved? It is fun when you're right though. love to seem 'em squirm.
Amazing how the facts make them squirm..and their best attacks make us laugh...
I don't claim to know all...but I bet I have had more experience with actual workings of vehicles than these yuppy kid clowns.. ...(oops..did I say that)?
Boy you get upset quick! If you have not seen the weld I'm talking about, why are you running on about it without any firsthand knowledge. Talk about acting like an engineer, your hypothesizing about something you've never seen. To state a tubular crossmember is always in compression or tension is ridiculous. You left out ripping/shearing loads, torsional loads and bending forces. The Chevy frame (which you still haven't looked at) uses a tubular crossmember that encounters torsional, bending and shearing loads. As to the fix, just look at topic 1638. The frame beefing up is chevy's fix, not mine. Guess you'd be Al's protegy with all your personal attacks without facts. BTW, I've got a great wavefile on engineers I'll send to you.
well said on all accounts my friend. robby, for a cross member to be in torsion, wouldn't that mean that either side of the frame would have to be twisting in opposite directions? i'm an engineer by degree (only a civil guy though, no mech here - makes my head hurt) but i have some knowledge of this stuff. can't say i've seen a situation which would have opposite sides of my frame twisting in opposite directions - in essence, torquing any of the cross members. not sure how the cross members would encounter any bending loads either, as i don't believe they support any weight in the vertical plane. but i'll go check just for you. you'll have to do a lot of talking to convince me on the torsion bit though. say rob, what's your degree and where's it from anyways? mine's BS Civil Engineering from this little engineering school along the Hudson River just south of Poughkeepsie, NY.
All you would have to do is drop one corner of your truck, either front or rear, off into a ditch/hole, etc. This would put your truck frame, both the longitudinal and transverse members, into a state of torsion. The magnitude of the induced torsion would be dependent on many factors, including the difference in elevation between the tires. Some time ago I drove a '98 model chevy with the third door. The extra door creaked loudly when turning onto something as short as a drop-curb. This creaking was caused by the induced torsion in the truck frame, which translated into the cab area of the truck.
agree with your post...but with respect to the current conversation - about cross-members, i have to be thinking that the most applicable part of your post is the, "magnitude of the induced torsion would be dependent on many factors" part. thanks for your insight. my 4-door ext cab 'rado has no squeaks of any kind.
What about the "shearing" loads on the tubular cross member? Don't think so!
Said it before...but Kyle is 'da man!
Cdean, the reason we draw you into these forrays is because a good leader like you makes things interesting.
Robbie, five bucks says if you are fibbing about the engineering degree, we will catch you.
To all: Not sure but I think the weldment is for securing the rack and pinion box to the frame, not necessarily to "beef" up the frame. Obyone (Dean) is the one who could answer that.
weldments are to move vibration nodes, or change the frequency, not to "beef up" a frame. Chassis engineers seem always concerned about resonant frequencies being too low. Size and strength are not necessarily synonymous. And no, I am not an engineer, I am a mechanic, but I know several mechanical engineers.
Looks like quadrunner is your biggest fan. However the laws physics of engineering don't change to suit a popularity contest. Quad, I a a lowly Airframe/powerplant rating. I'm sure your much more knowledgable, than me. After all you discovered there are no such thing as "shearing loads" if it concerns a tubalur crossmember. Showed your post to the Boeing rep, he got a chuckle out of it also.
I appreciate your concise and factual info on torsional loads involved in truck frames. Unfortunately, some here would rather type insults to cover up their, less than complete, knowledge of the subject.
Thanks for your inputs. Don't sell yourself short for not holding some fancy engineering degree, from what I've seen here knowledge is subjugated to brand loyalty. I for one am willing to learn anything I can from an experienced, knowledgeable mechanic.
your posts are just about on the money. Oldharry, experience counts for a lot. The engineers should listen to the mechanics, we could actually get trucks that we could work on for a change.
The TSB that rwellbaum2 is referring to is for vibrations in the front end steering and suspension. GM has identified the rack and pinion as the problem for tire and road vibrations being transmitted to the passenger compartment. Also, the mounting points of the steering rack on the front frame crossmember may be amplifying road vibrations. The fix includes remove/replace rack and pinion with revised one. Lower control arms replaced with units incorporating a revised bushing. Power steering metering valve replaced with a revised fitting. The welding that is to be done is to reinforce the left front steering rack mounting point or crossmember reinforcement plate. Total labor time allowed for this TSB is 3.5 hours. Of the Chevy owner that have had this TSB performed, vibrations have pretty much dissappeared. Of course, there are exceptions. I think one person said he still had some vibes. All of them agree that the truck drives tighter after the TSB. Oh yeah, this fix is for 2wd only.
i agree with your statement: "Unfortunately, some here would rather type insults to cover up their, less than complete, knowledge of the subject."
but i would add: some here would rather type misleading info that makes them sound more knowledgeable than they are. they do this out of loyalty to their brand; in hopes that putting down all the others will help theirs rise above. otherwise, how do you explain your post referencing shearing loads in tubular cross members? when called on it, you simply apologize and make an off-handed remark about popularity contests.
i, for one, look forward to open, factual debate about our trucks, not our personal attributes or failures.
the votes of confidence from tim, quad, and others, i must say, i am not "da man". i am simply here to learn, like most everyone else. my knowledge as a either a mechanic or a mechanical engineer is severely limited. which is why i only offer suggestions or suppositions on these topics. the rest is simply applying logic and common sense to flawed arguments.
for those interested, i have a '00 'rado z71 four door extended cab with 5.3l v8. i've pulled an average of 16 mpg over the first 10k miles, with peaks of 19+ (primarily highway at 75-80 mph) and valleys of 12+ (primarily off-roading in 4wd). the only mechanical change i intend to make, other than switching to synthetic (M1 5w30) is to replace the shocks. too floaty for me. other than that, no squeaks, rattles, vibrations or otherwise. initial quality rating from my standpoint on a scale of 1-10 is a 10+. i frequently tell people that i expected there to be one or two minor glitches that would annoy me (as with any new vehicle) but i have yet to find any. i chose the chevy over the the other two and the tundra because it best met my needs. largest cab/opening, best $$$ deal, good past experiences with gm products/services, bad past experiences with ford products, n/a with dodge, and the fact that tundra is in it's first model year. i read what silverado went through, just as most new model years do, and i wasn't going to be a toyota guinea pig.
sorry for the long post, i just felt it necessary to get all that out. and now, i shall step down from my soap box.
Obyone I mechanic-ed from the time i was old enough to hold a wrench up until I started interning in college. Worked mostly on big industrial engines, not much automotive. decided in high school that i really enjoyed the mechanical aspect--but in engineering i didn't have to be in the 110° Texas heat--plus i was really good at math and physics...
Call false, call wolf or shout at the top of your lungs that the world is flat. Every force I descibed is a fact of life on an automobile crossmember. I didn't use any hard to understand terms or try to talk over your head. Quad has already got shot down on the torsional load question by david6. So please tell me which force I described does not affect the crossmember. By your description, the crossmember just sits there for added weight.
to use your words, "geez, don't get so upset". let's see, what else can i do to do business rob wellbaum style? hmmmm, i could personally attack you by calling you an uneducated sloth who has no idea what he's talking about. then...i could make something up about the tundra. yeah, i heard that the tundra has a problem with the wheels falling off. now, well, i guess i'll just leave it at that. oh, and if you read my posts, i don't think you'll find anything that says cross members sit there to provide extra weight. however, you will find that i SUPPOSED that they do not contribute very much to reducing torsion. which i have yet to have somebody tell me otherwise. i don't buy david6's explanation. also, i haven't seen how they support any weight which would see them incurring bending loads. now...what was it you were saying about shearing forces, rob? and, from what standpoint do you back your statements up? you are a certified what???
There are no shearing loads. Unless you mount something to the cross member. If its a tube, not sure how you would mount to it.
remember in college, Shear and moment diagrams, discontinous shear jumps at point loads--you have to have load, something has to be touching it in the middle for it to have shear.
Oops, did i just shoot someone down? trigger finger...
(and thank God for that), but if you think a ladder-type frame in a pickup is not subject to torsion and that torsion is not transmitted through the cross-members, you're freakin' crazy. For the record, I give a crap about whether its tack welded, seal welded, or held on by some dried spit. Have there been any failures because of it?? Not that I've heard of. However, lack of rigidity, by whatever cause could be the root of some of the Chevy's problems (like the bed floppin' around while driving over rough interstate, air coming in around the back glass, numerous creaks and rattles, etc.). Of course, everyone knows that if you want a "tough as nails" work truck, you get a Ford!!!!
Comments
Ryan
- Tim
I think my Tundra's A/C cools the cab very quickly even on a hot Southern CA afternoon. I had mine last August and September, and it was just fine by me.
Maybe I don't require so much cooling because I haven't got as many square inches of body surface as you have?
Ryan
Turn down your air conditioners and listen up...
....they've changed the name of M&Ms plain to M&Ms milk chocolate!
A proper repair includes:
Inspecting the tire - inside and out.
Cleaning and cutting the puncture smooth.
Installing an insert (plug).
Preparing the inner liner.
Patching the inner liner.
Coating the repaired inner surface with seal coat.
Yes, it takes time, but the tire is less likely to fail later. I have samples cut from junk tires at the shop to show why a plug alone may fail.
Harry
"You like to avoid the issue, and jabber enough to
hide what's really important. you should be Al's
running mate. I answer everything you question.
reread my post and go find something real to b**ch
about."
get used to it. robby'll just pull some bs outta thin air, put it in a post and ignore your counters by posting more bs. it's a cycle i grew weary of. don't pay him any mind...his posts are usually pretty meaningless.
present4u: personal attacks are so...pointless. can all of us read from your post that you're a skinny, pencil-necked-geek, yuppy "typical of tundra owners"?
kyle
and I would say Kyle knows his truck better than any Tundra fan thinks he knows his...
- Tim
Why not just take the truck in and have the tire repaired. Discount tire does it for free - even if you did not buy the tire from them.
- Tim
1. Why is the structural tube crossmember at a high stress area attached by tack welds?
2. If the Silverado frame is so strong and rigid, why does chevy's vibration fix involve beefing up the frame with extra steel welded to it?
3. What is your fascination with Clinton and Gore? What exactly did they do to you?
Dean
Clinton and Gore did nothing. They talk a lot of hot air. Just like you. And you're doing it again. You totally made up 2 questions tangent to what we were talking about to try to fabricate a sense of knowlegde. just like C & G. fortunately, I can expose you pretty easily.
1. How in the hell do you know that the tack welds are a high stress area? I haven't seen them, so I can't say they're not, but my point was:....There CAN be a tack weld, in fact there doesn't even HAVE to be a tack weld in a tubular crossmember, there can be a GAP.
If you are an engineer, then act like one. Here's the explanation. Crossmembers are usually in tension or compression. This causes longitudinal stress in the direction of the cross member, which can induce buckling. If you remember from engineering school (you did go didn't you?) hollow members or tubes are the BEST
TO RESIST BUCKLING. As far as the welds go, they are only resisting hoop stress, which is caused mostly by internal pressure differentials. Unless you are trapping high pressure gas in your Toyota's tubular crossmembers, ITS NOT A STRESS POINT!
2. What the hell are you talking about? We've mentioned nothing about this? Another attempt to sound smart by going off on a tangent. Beef up the frame? IF you really were an engineer, you know that vibration occurs because of a natural frequency, which, though complicated in a vehicle, is derived by K/M, stiffness and mass. seems, easy, until you realize that you are dealing with rotating equipment, and that there is stiffness and mass elements in 3 directions. Beefing up the frame might cause a higher stiffness, but if you were an engineer YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THE SYSTEM STIFFNESS IS NOT DERIVED FROM FRAME ALONE: SPRINGS, TIRES, AXLES, CAB MOUNTS all add in a factor of stiffness that contributes to the overall system natural frequency. The question is, which subsystem is the largest contributor to the natural frequency?
You might be a Peterbilt frame underneath it and still have a vibration if there is something else out of balance--because the WHOLE THING IS RIDING ON SPRINGS.
I don't bash Toyota, i don't cry about Chevy, I don't do that immature crap. I just hate to see people lie and make up crap just to make themselves feel big or when they try to bash others. Because some people actually come here to read material for information. You are one of those folks that make up crap, and your posts add nothing but lies for people actually trying to become informed. Thats why I rebute.
I don't claim to know all...but I bet I have had more experience with actual workings of vehicles than these yuppy kid clowns..
...(oops..did I say that)?
- Tim
You criticized a feature. I gave you reason why it 'could' be just fine, under the understanding i haven't seen it. You don't like it.
Who's throwing personal attacks? they sell mirrors at Walmart.
Keep spouting. You tangents prove you're only here to talk trash, not trucks. I don't bash other trucks, I feel secure about mine....
kyle
torsion would be dependent on many factors" part. thanks for your insight. my 4-door ext cab 'rado has no squeaks of any kind.
kyle
Said it before...but Kyle is 'da man!
Cdean, the reason we draw you into these forrays is because a good leader like you makes things interesting.
Robbie, five bucks says if you are fibbing about the engineering degree, we will catch you.
To all: Not sure but I think the weldment is for securing the rack and pinion box to the frame, not necessarily to "beef" up the frame. Obyone (Dean) is the one who could answer that.
Harry
The TSB that rwellbaum2 is referring to is for vibrations in the front end steering and suspension. GM has identified the rack and pinion as the problem for tire and road vibrations being transmitted to the passenger compartment. Also, the mounting points of the steering rack on the front frame crossmember may be amplifying road vibrations. The fix includes remove/replace rack and pinion with revised one. Lower control arms replaced with units incorporating a revised bushing. Power steering metering valve replaced with a revised fitting. The welding that is to be done is to reinforce the left front steering rack mounting point or crossmember reinforcement plate. Total labor time allowed for this TSB is 3.5 hours. Of the Chevy owner that have had this TSB performed, vibrations have pretty much dissappeared. Of course, there are exceptions. I think one person said he still had some vibes. All of them agree that the truck drives tighter after the TSB. Oh yeah, this fix is for 2wd only.
BTW, where's bama?
"Unfortunately, some here would rather type insults to cover up their, less than complete, knowledge of the subject."
but i would add: some here would rather type misleading info that makes them sound more knowledgeable than they are. they do this out of loyalty to their brand; in hopes that putting down all the others will help theirs rise above. otherwise, how do you explain your post referencing shearing loads in tubular cross members? when called on it, you simply apologize and make an off-handed remark about popularity contests.
i, for one, look forward to open, factual debate about our trucks, not our personal attributes or failures.
kyle
We called false on every one of you posts, and instead of defending, you change the subject and say we were insulting you. Kyle's exactly right.
Thanks for making our point.
Please show me where I've insulted you.
for those interested, i have a '00 'rado z71 four door extended cab with 5.3l v8. i've pulled an average of 16 mpg over the first 10k miles, with peaks of 19+ (primarily highway at 75-80 mph) and valleys of 12+ (primarily off-roading in 4wd). the only mechanical change i intend to make, other than switching to synthetic (M1 5w30) is to replace the shocks. too floaty for me. other than that, no squeaks, rattles, vibrations or otherwise. initial quality rating from my standpoint on a scale of 1-10 is a 10+. i frequently tell people that i expected there to be one or two minor glitches that would annoy me (as with any new vehicle) but i have yet to find any. i chose the chevy over the the other two and the tundra because it best met my needs. largest cab/opening, best $$$ deal, good past experiences with gm products/services, bad past experiences with ford products, n/a with dodge, and the fact that tundra is in it's first model year. i read what silverado went through, just as most new model years do, and i wasn't going to be a toyota guinea pig.
sorry for the long post, i just felt it necessary to get all that out. and now, i shall step down from my soap box.
kyle
Memo to Bama: Check for reports of unhappy Silverado owners with steering shaft probs....
I mechanic-ed from the time i was old enough to hold a wrench up until I started interning in college. Worked mostly on big industrial engines, not much automotive. decided in high school that i really enjoyed the mechanical aspect--but in engineering i didn't have to be in the 110° Texas heat--plus i was really good at math and physics...
thanks, appreciate your input...
kyle
remember in college, Shear and moment diagrams, discontinous shear jumps at point loads--you have to have load, something has to be touching it in the middle for it to have shear.
Oops, did i just shoot someone down? trigger finger...
Not me Robbie. I think you're confused again. I said nothing about it.
Thanks for keeping me in your thoughts anyway.
So what you are saying is it's there just taking up space?
..Like you and Tundras?
- Tim