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Uh, not really.
I posted earlier that there is definitely a turbo lag for the 335i. Minimal, but it's there. 2001gs430 then later posted the same thing and that makes it 2 of us here. I may not own a 335i but since I drive an IS350 and have significantly butt time in both the G35 and TL (and TL-S), I have a lot of past experience to compare to while test driving the 335i (twice).
Motor Trend: It's like butter, that twin-turbo six, and the turbo lag you might expect melts into smooth acceleration. But there's still a power surge to tell you turbos are in place hard and early.
Source: First Drive: 2007 BMW 335i Turbo Coupe
Edmunds: Turbo lag, the period of time between throttle application and the turbo's ability to provide meaningful boost, is essentially nonexistent for all practical purposes. Only in higher gears when modulating the throttle to adjust the handling balance can the engine's artificially aspirated nature be detected. Other than that, this new turbo engine simply feels like a larger-displacement, normally aspirated engine.
Source: 3 Series excellence, continued
Like I said, very minimal but it's there.
Of course I don't think the German driving dynamics itself is overhyped but to make it a requirement for a so-called benchmark sometimes is overhyped. I can only speak for myself (but I got a hunch that 2001gs430 might agree), due to my driving style and the condition I commute in, often times that the best handling car isn't the best option. Also, for my personal preference, German's bland (you can call it "subtle" but it's bland to me) interior styling is just a major turn off.
Is the 3-series performance overhyped? No, because it is still the benchmark. However, to many people who have different priority while driving, it may all of the sudden becomes an overhype.
Yep, test drove the car last week and put in the lease application. I will have to pick the color and I should be in one by this Wed (dealer trying to close monthend with an extra sales).
By the way, I've never said the BMW driving dynamics are bad. It just not enough to compensate for the luxury feel/features that I have gotten used to with Lexus.
Your (nick)name says it all (LOL).
Pro - Engine had good response and power, I didn't notice tranny hesitation. Features were easy to use and well thought out. Hard disk to store music was nice, I am not an Ipod guy but I do love to have access to my music. Levinson system sounded great. Overall high quality look and feel.
Con - Not nearly as fun to drive as my A8 (or a 750), no paddle shifters available. I also thought that it was strange that no dynamic suspension is offered on the regular wheelbase car - it seems less useful on the L. Although it is a great car, it just didn't feel special behind the wheel.
Verdict - I was impressed, the price is very good - $73K loaded. But it just doesn't seem like I would enjoy driving the car for the next 24-30 months. The sales rep is going to get me a lease price, I guess I would consider the LS460 at a 20ish percent discount to my current payment on the A8. If the price is in the same ballpark, I'm not interested, especially since you can get a 2008 750 at a great deal.
It is great fun car shopping these days, I am also about ready to decide on an SUV for my wife - she keeps going back & forth between the MDX and the Q7. It seems as though I'm stuck in the middle of our current German vs. Japan debate.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
Did you mash it to get a feel for its 0 - 60?
Did you try a passing test, whereby you mashed it to test the tranny's kickdown?... and if so, at what speed? and what happened?
I was impressed with the 460 from an interior design and feature standpoint
I find it to have a fairly standard dash, and center stack/console layout that's been in use for over a decade now. I agree it is feature-rich, but what did you like about the actual interior design?
TagMan
The LS's interior is well-done, but it's not beautiful. That's where the line is drawn. For example, a friend had a lease on an '04 A8L that went up last year; he got an LS460 SWB. (In fact, he wanted an S550, but that's a different story entirely) After a year with the Lexus and two to go, he is sick of it and wants to get out of the lease. His A8L was a lemon, but he says that if the A8 is now more reliable, he would buy it again in a heartbeat, because he misses its performance and design. I couldn't agree more...
Worst of all, he got it in the most boring color combo, silver/black. Sorry to anyone who has those colors, but it's true.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
My wife's '05 Vanden Plas has still not needed one single service other than standard routine visit. Mileage is class-leading in the 20's. Weight, due to aluminum, is nearly as light as as 3-series!
Kids love the movies in the back. Bluetooth, voice-command, navi all work like they should.
Plenty quiet... but not as quiet as a Lexus, but then what is?
Silky tranny, and offers sport mode. Incredible interior comfort.
I've said it before... these Jags can be practically stolen and had for a song... there is no other value out there like it, IMO. It's practically ridiculous.
TagMan
What would happen to his theory if they traded cars?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You're welcome to take up the baton.
On the other hand, not having iDrive is a positive. And the interior does look far nicer.
Anyway I'm hoping for deals in Dec, or if they're not aggressive enough at that time, then maybe summer.
IMO, A8 has the worst looking interior in its class following by the 7-series. The S-class looks okay if one can look pass the "sticking out" nav-screen. Lexus and Acura are the only luxury brands that have integrated the nav-screen into the center stack without looking awkward. BMW is the worst offender in that area, just looking at every BMW sedans, all of them has the "sticking out" nav-screen design. Totally destroyed the flow of the whole dash board IMO.
As for the A8, time to move on from the Lincoln Town Car type interior and join the 21st century.
The LS interior is more than well-done, it's smooth, sleek, I also wouldn't use beautiful to describe it because "elegant" is a much better word. That is much better than the dash boards made out of Lego pieces (S-class and 7-series) and the circa-1990 Audi A8.
Oh well, to each of his own I guess.
Tag - I - didn't notice any tranny issues but to your question, I didn't really mash it. I should have but I just didn't get the feel that the car really made for spirited driving.
Back to your point of this being a subjective area, you are correct, to each his own. I wonder why you would consider a 750 if you feel that the LS is so much better.
What makes you think that I have a 750i?
So, that's why I asked. Atlas7 reports that the problem has been fixed. So, naturally, I was curious about that fix, and was wondering about your experience... but as it turns out you didn't actually make such a test.
I've always thought that when testing an automatic, tranny kickdown is a good part of a test drive, because it represents passing situations, and potential sudden safety-related situations as well.
Thanks for the feedback. Really appreciate it.
TagMan
When I think about it, where else can you pay so little for so much luxury car?
Now, that said... if you don't like the car, or any car in this example, you should never get it, no matter what the price... IMO.
TagMan
Was it a CPO or late in the model year, and if the latter, what month did you get it?
Did you buy or lease?
The website says 1 year / 12k miles free maintenance now.
I doubt that it mattters all that much, since the warranty is still very good, and since the maintenance requirements are minimum anyway. I also received a 7-year extended warranty with a small deductible (although I initially wanted a zero deductible).
It was a great deal, as I recall it, and as I said, everything seemed to converge at the same time. There was even an extra little gift from Jaguar ($1,000), because we had filled out their guest book at the car show, and ended up buying a Jag before the year ended.
The car was sold at WAY under invoice, and they even threw in the larger factory fully-chromed 5-spoke star wheels with performance tires from another car and even installed an '06 front grill to give it that latest much-improved chrome wire mesh front end. They activated the Jaguar voice command and Bluetooth, and tossed in the 7-year warranty. I'm sure there was even more, but I can't remember it all.
The only option I did not get was the satellite, because it was an FM modulator XM unit that was not up to par at that time. At some point in the future, it will be improved significantly, and I'll have it installed.
BTW, the rear multi-media system is awesome with the twin headrest color monitors and the rear center console control system for rear passengers. Gas mileage is amazing... much better than a LS600hL! Also, in case it matters to you, the trunk is huge!
I did not lease it. I wrote a check.
That's all I recall at this moment.
TagMan
I knew the XJ wasn't perfect and had a few areas to criticize, but overall, it is a gorgeous car that can be purchased for a song, if you do your homework.
So, as it turned out, I gave up on the S-Class, and pursued the XJ, and got a wonderful deal, as I explained in the previous post.
It's turned out to be much more than good enough, IMHO. (And I still can't believe the incredible gas mileage!)
TagMan
Nissan will take on Toyota’s Lexus by offering hybrid powertrains in its Infiniti lineup within the next few years. According to Carlos Tavares, Nissan’s executive vice president for global product planning, Nissan will debut luxury hybrids first in the United States.
Nissan’s hybrid powertrain is still in the developmental phase. Not to mention its only hybrid has been the Nissan Altima, where Toyota itself supplied Nissan with the powertrain.
Tavares did not say which Infiniti models would be getting the hybrid technology.
Nissan has been very vague with its alternative-fuel strategy. The company has been repeatedly reported dancing the line between offering hybrids, diesels or electric cars. Tavares said that Nissan is also looking to offer electric cars by 2010 starting with Japan.
If we were to guess, we think Nissan will first offer hybrid technology in its M45, FX, EX models.
http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/10/29/report-infiniti-to-take-on-lexus-with-hybri- ds-in-the-us/
I have never leased before but I'll go that way if it is for a RWD car, since I eventually want both AWD and hybrid or diesel or diesel hybrid.
IMO, it's exciting and lots of fun to compare some of the very best cars, knowing that eventually one of them should make its way into the home's garage!
I wish you luck! And, you can bet, we want to hear about your progress.
TagMan
XJ8L 19
LS460L 19
750Li 18
A8L 18
S550 16
Only the S lags here, but it does have a bigger engine. Even though the XJ is light, I guess there is some sort of inefficiency somewhere else that offsets, maybe the engine isn't as modern or the tranny not as good? Anyway, all but the S have OK mpg, and even the S isn't so bad that I'd rule it out.
I know for an absolute fact through lots of hands-on experience that the XJ will most likely get better than the rated 19 combined. It depends upon how and where you drive, of course, but with reasonable freeway mixed in, achieving averages into the twenties has been no problem at all!
I mention this only in case you are interested.
TagMan
I think you mean Dr. Piech builds a lot of cars that Dr. Piech wants to build, no matter the devastation caused to the company in the process. Honda and Toyota are in the business of making money... by way of selling cars. They don't have omnipotent madmen at the top.
Every Jag I've owned up to my new XK has been used. The XJ-S and the last gen XKs depreciated by a rate of about $1,000 a minute. Not quite as bad as the XJ sedan, but bad. As long as you're careful, *lightly* used luxury cars can be great buys, and everybody has a great CPO program. A two year old CPOed luxury car usually means thousands and thousands off the new sticker, and a warranty equal to or better than that of a new one off the lot.
In the same ad, they were able to show that the car has gained considerable power and now has a VDIM-off feature, all the while the car is doing some serious d-nuts and burnouts. Very interesting coming from Lexus. This is an all-out assault on the M45, E550, A6 4.2, and of course the primo 550i.
I've seen a few of those, the "not that you should, but you can" ads. The problem is (as far as I'm aware), they haven't even touched the suspension, the steering system, or the GS V8's myriad of other performance sins. So you've got essentially the car with the lousiest handling in its class, just with an "off" button for the stability control. Wowee.
The Toyota Camry won car of the year. The GL won because Mercedes gave them a fat advertising check. The MT "OTY" awards are the most transparently phony in the business.
How did you make out regarding the "inferno"?
We are further up north, so no problems at all. but I did spend the end of last week in LA... Beverly Hills, Hollywood, and Burbank.
It wasn't very bad, but the scientists have reported trace amounts of asbestos in the air, and all athletics at schools and pulic programs were shut down, until the air measured clean enough again. :surprise:
TagMan
Supposedly Jim Press is going to be doing a bit of Ghosn style slashing and burning over at Chrysler. It's already been confirmed that a large number of worthless Chrysler models are getting the axe. The problem is Chrysler is still pumping out worthless new models as we speak. That new Dodge Avenger based crossover has to be the most hideous thing I've seen in years. It looks like something Kia would've made 10 years ago, or something the Chinese or Malaysians would be building about now. I can't think of even a single desirable Chrysler product, or any in the pipeline, and while GM and Ford seemed to have learned that spending a few extra bucks on interiors can pay dividends, Chrysler still hasn't gotten that memo. Chrysler's new interiors are worse than ever.
I think Ford (from a product standpoint) is in better shape, though Lincoln and Mercury in particular are still disaster areas. It seems like Mercury is once again getting the Jacques Nasser treatment - Mercury who? We still have a brand called that?
I was very surprised to read that bit of news a few days ago, as Ghosn thusfar hasn't had much interest in hybrids. I'm very curious to see what Infiniti does with this. The Altima hybrid's handling spanks the Camry's, so I'm sure a M hybrid would do the same to the GSh.
Toyota’s reputation for building reliable cars is continuing to crumble with news today of yet another engine problem, this time with officials in Australia holding back sales of the V6-powered RAV4 SUV.
Here's the rest of the story...
link title
TagMan
Uh, great? The flames would have to reach all the way across the country to hit us here in southern Pennsylvania. I think we're pretty safe, at least from wildfires.
What really surprised me about Toyota's quality slide was the GS. Toyota has been having issues for quite a few years, with a few million cars recalled here and there, but problems at Lexus are a new event. The '03 GX470 was a bit of a bump in the road for them, but the problems it had were (relatively) minor and they were essentially fixed by its second year on the market. The GS though was far worse than the GX in year one, and has gotten worse for its second year on the market. Worse than Acura, worse than BMW, and even worse than the Audi A6, which used to be one of the most horrifically unreliable cars on the market. When you take reliability away from Lexus, you don't have much left.
In 2000, the JD Power VDS top score was Lexus, rated at an amazing 2.15 issues per vehicle car produced. Now that type of performance places it barely above average for all brands rated for 2007! Actually the worst brand on the 2007 study, Land Rover at 3.98 issues per vehicle, would still rank above the industry standard in 2000 of 4.48 issues per vehicle!
And to think that we still hear comments here that cars like Mercedes are likely to leave people stranded on the side of the road, or spend their lives in the shop. I guess that means that seven years ago, Lexus vehicles would have been just as likely, if not more so, to strand their owners and spend their lives in the shop.
Simply preposterous... every bit of that kind of "panic" thinking.
TagMan
It is widely regarded as one of the best in the industry, if not the best.
The LS is well-built and functional... but like I said, not beautiful. Not elegant. Not pretty. "Elegant" should be used to describe vehicles that have interiors with perfect designs that stand the test of time; interiors that are simply designed rather than engineered. The LS's interior is engineered. That's the difference. They didn't build it for style. They built it for ergonomics.
The A8's interior combines style and ergonomics in an amazing package. I doubt you've ever sat in one with the comments you made.
And yes, I've had a Lincoln Town Car rental, unfortunately... they copied the A8's wood-aluminum look (with both faux wood and fake aluminum), but it's still terrible.
I just find your opinion strange, that's all. You are the only person I've ever met (or blogged with, whatever) who doesn't like the A8 interior. The S-Class interior isn't for everyone, but I love that one, too.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
One of the more recent sightings was an '07 (best model year--no bodykit and no cladding, either) Vanden Plas, ice blue, five spoke rims. I stopped dead in my tracks, just to stare. It was stunning. Simply beautiful. And much more modern than the previous gen. If you can find one like that, you'll be impressed.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
I still don't buy the A8/Town Car similarity.
You don't have to buy it, I was just expressing my opinion. As for esf, I guess now you know that the Audi interior is NOT for everybody. I believe I've posted this before but my preference of interior (sedan) can be ranked as:
Acura > Lexus > MB > Infiniti > Audi > BMW
Acura, Lexus and Infiniti interiors have more of a "technologically advanced" look with them while the MB is down right graceful. Audi's looks plain but with good ergonomics. BMW is just plain dull and unispiring.
I would also rank build quality and body integrity among makes in the same order that you ranked interior preference. Acura, Lexus, MB, infinity, Audi, BMW.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
It is widely regarded as one of the best in the industry, if not the best.
That is factual.
TagMan
That is NOT factual, it's all opinion.
It is only factual if the reviews would provide technical data with hard cold specs to prove that the Audi interior is better than the rest. If not then it remained as a popular opinion.
I do agree that on this issue I seem to be in the minority.
Specifically...
FACT: Every review of the A8 I have ever read has IN FACT commented on the beauty of the A8's interior.
FACT: It is widely regarded as one of the best interiors in the industry, if not the best.
esf's post was FACTUAL, as he worded it.
TagMan
Actually, some people don't realize that California has small earthquakes almost every day, but when it reaches tonight's 5.6... I guess it becomes newsworthy.
TagMan
I still wouldn't buy a Land Rover, but I would definitely at least lease an Audi, which I wouldn't do five years ago. BMW and Audi in particular seem to have really made impressive strides across their entire lines. M-B on the other hand still seems to have their work cut out for them, but their latest models like the S and C at least seem to be pointing in the right direction.
These kinds of industry wide improvements are probably why CR changed their system from being semi-percentage based (a full black dot meant 15%+ of owners reported a problem or something like that) to being completely based on a mysterious and ever-changing "average" new car. That way it doesn't matter really how "far below average" a black dot is. If 2% of owners reporting a problem is the worst in the industry, it gets a full black dot.