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Also, the majority of the Japanese population do acknowledge about the wrong doings back in WWII (especially in China, particularly Nanjing). It's those right wing politicians their hardcore supporters who are in denial.
I can see Both Honda and Toyota continue to gain market share in China but those Japanese right wing politicians better tone down a quiet bit, otherwise, Toyota can just about to kiss the number one auto maker title goodbye. Given that China will eventually be the largest auto market in the world and generally speaking the Chinese people do like Americans, I personally like GM's chance better than Toyota's over there.
Looks like pricing somewhere in the mid 30's which is in the same neighborhood as the ES 350. My criteria for buying any car is quite simple. I just have to really like the car. I wanted to like the Azera when it came out and actually took one for a spin. The exterior looked great, it drove fairly well, but....the interior, to my eye was quite cheap looking and something that I could never live with. I hope this car does not go cheapo on the interior, but the interior shots I have seen do remind me of the Azera.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
We'll have to see, but I think you nailed it here.
Fortunately, these pictures suggest that Hyundai has taken the interior of the Genesis to a higher level of quality than what they used in the Azera. And, they certainly don't look anything alike.
This is the Azera Interior, which definately looks cheap, IMO.
This is most likely the final Genesis Interior, which (based on the pic) has a higher quality appearance, IMO:
From the limited information that is avaiIable, it would seem that the face of the dash may be leather or wood, as it has appeared both ways to date. Upcoming pics should tell us more.
Seeing the vehicle in person, as well as test-driving the vehicle will ultimately reveal its true nature.
TagMan
TM
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
In addition, I'm doubting that it has a manual transmission option, but. . . ?
The Genesis is being unveiled next week at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show. It is the first product to be built on Hyundai's new rear-wheel-drive architecture; a sport coupe, previewed last fall at the Los Angeles show, will follow in production in late 2008 or early 2009.
The Genesis sedan will offer a choice of three DOHC engines in the U.S. — a 3.3-liter V6 rated at 268 horsepower and 233 pound-feet of torque; a 3.8-liter V6 rated at 290 hp and 264 lb-ft and an all-new 4.6-liter V8 rated at 368 hp and 324 lb-ft. The V8 will be mated to a ZF six-speed automatic gearbox, while the V6 engines will use an Aisin six-speed automatic. Both transmissions have manual shift capability.
Hyundai says the Genesis V8 will accelerate from zero to 60 in less than 6.0 seconds. Among the potential future engine options, it adds, are larger displacement, forced induction — either supercharging or turbocharging — and other technology enhancements.
Among the technical highlights are adaptive headlamps, adaptive cruise control, Lexicon premium audio system with XM NavTraffic radio, as well as USB and iPod auxiliary inputs. Options include a navigation system and rear back-up camera.
Standard safety gear includes electronic active head restraints, electronic stability control, rain-sensing wipers and eight airbags.
Hyundai is aiming Genesis at such competitors as the Chrysler 300 and Pontiac G8, as well as the Infiniti M, Lexus GS and Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedans.
TagMan
Sure does. Or Mercedes' COMAND controler. Hopefully it has an easy-to-use GUI.
TM
Please remind me not to nominate you for a profile in courage award. It has always amazed me that when status symbols and/or money come into play, people have instant memory loss. The sight of former US Army Sergeant Henry Kissinger, barely 20 years after WWII, driving around Cambridge in his MB always seemed incongruous.
Speaking of Japanese wrongdoings during WWII, the Vietnamese are not exactly fond of what they did to them eiher during the short time they were in VN.
TagMan
It is rear-wheel drive. The weight distribution isn't bad. However, the transmission situation appears driven by what sells as opposed to what enthusiasts (I think that's what I am, some of the time) want.
The competitors they list clearly avoid the cars I'm interested in -- BMW, Mercedes C & Infiniti. Even when I can get RWD and a manual, the next question comes up: Do the rear seats fold down?
This interesting car gets eliminated (for me) on the second question (manual), even though it does have RWD. Never got to the third.
Thanks again for the clarification.
Tomorrow I'm heading to the BMW dealer, and I expect to place a deposit on the 135i. I spoke to them today and learned that there will be a 135i coming in around March that I could have. I've got to decide the color I want. That new Sedona Metallic Red (exclusive on the 135i) looks good. Otherwise it's the old silver or gray colors, but I'm bored with them. Gosh, it's happening sooner than I expected.
Here's the color I'm thinking of... looks sporty to me... black interior, of course.
RWD, 306 HP twin-turbo, 6-speed manual, and yes, the rear seats fold down... LOL.
Just curious... what do you think of the color?
TagMan
You're getting what I want, colorwise. Enjoy.
TM
Regards,
Jose
I likey !
I would pick a 135i but my practical needs dictates a 335i.
Same here.
I am envious to those who have dedicated people movers in their garage so they are free to drive something impractical but fun like the 135i. For us who need practicality we can only compromise to something like the 3-series.
My wife is Chinese and we have quite a few Japanese friends.
Unlike Japan where BMW and MB rules, South Koreans choose Lexuses as their number one luxury marque despite Japanese WW2 atrocities in Korea.
Last time I went to Israel I could not help but notice all the German cars there. I live in a very Jewish neighborhood that happens to have more German cars than a neighbourhood in Germany.
Henry Kissinger driving a MB during the 60s? During the 60s Free market Germany had more in common with USA than did Britain which was ruled by socialists and labor union influences.
Consumer societies that choose their products freely are usually deaf to the drum beat of nationalism. Thank God for that.
I agree that a few ignorant Japanese politicians may infuriate some countries but in the long run the companies that make the best cars will rule the markets independent of politicians.
"Arrest Me Red!"
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Even if China continues to boom that in itself does not mean that their stockmarket prices will also boom.
The reason Chinese stockmarkets gained triple digits these past few years is because their valuations were lower than US stockmarkets. Today Chinese valuations are double that of US stockmarkets .
And what happened to Chinese stockmarket returns when their valuations were far higher than US stocks during the late 1980s:
1987 to 2003 Chinese GDP Growth 9.3 percent
1987 to 2003 Chinese Stockmarket returns -9.85 percent.
Yes Chinese returns were so negative that an affluent investor would end up becoming quite poor if he put a big chunk of his money in China.
Stock return booms are driven more by low valuations than economic growth. And right now unfortunately Chinese valuations are stratospherically too high.
I thought the Chinese stockmarket was only open not long ago for public trading?
I could be mistaken.
By the way, I know everyone drools over the power of the turbos but the 128 weighs 125 pounds less and also costs 5 grand less. I could definitely see myself buying a 128 without adding one option. The only option I absolutely have to have is those fold-down rear seats - and now they're standard on the 1.
Everyone's talking about how pricey the 1 can get but for the pure drivers you get what you need and want for under $30K (128) and under $35K (135). Yeah, yeah, you need this, that, the other thing... blah, blah... I don't want to hear it. The extras are donations to BMW in my book. Stick, radio, CD, fold-down rear seats, I'm good to go. YMMV.
I wish we'd get the hatch.
Pure drivers - don't sell that 128 short.
Stocks also trade in China but many of these shares can only be owned by Chinese nationals.
And all this time I thought I was the only one who buys BMW with minimal options (sport package and please hold the leather) Almost every BMW owner I know buys their car with a whole slew of expensive options.
I like simplicity. I like less headaches( fewer options means less can go wrong). And last but not least I like saving my money.
BTW, thanks Dewey for the information regarding China and investing in China. I see your good point about economic growth vs. stock valuations. Something to consider.
Also, Dewey, good perspective on cars vs. politicians... I agree.
D-Man, a purist could certainly get the 128i without too many extras and have a blast... no doubt about it! I really want that twin-turbo engine however (Dewey can't be the only one here that enjoys it.
TagMan
Germany, over 82 million inhabitants, 2,906,898 cars (-8.2%)
Italy, over 59 million inhabitants, 2,328,356 (6.6%)
UK, over 59 million inhabitants, 2,266,047 (2.5%)
France, over 64 million inhabitants, 1,881,995 (1.7%)
Spain, over 45 million inhabitants, 1,614,846 (-1.2%)
Italy moving ahead (in red cars?
Jose
Yet more useful information. Thanks. Generally I find four doors quite useful even though I rarely put people in the back seat. However, I could "grow" and decide that it's not all that important.
BTW, let me know when you do finally drive the 1-series... I'd like to know your impressions.
Mine won't be here until March, at the earliest.
TagMan
Haven't decided for sure, but probably so. I'm very undecided about the rest of the picture with cars. I'd like to minimize the number of cars. I'm thinking that the Porsche, the MDX and the BMW will be more than enough, and I should sell the GTI and the Jaguar. If I do that, however, I see is that there is no genuine comfortable 4-passenger vehicle other than the MDX. I'm guessing that the rear of the 1-series will be very tight because the 3-series coupe seems tight. If it is indeed too tight, then the question is whether or not the MDX is adequate as the sole vehicle to carry 4 passengers. :confuse:
TagMan
BTW, this will be my very first BMW, which seems surprising to me. I'm looking forward to it.
BTW, I sat in a "regular" seat and a "sport" seat, and quite frankly, I was very surprised to discover that I was much more comfortable in the regular power seat. It had plenty of lateral support as well as a terrific fit. The sport seat's side bolsters were too narrow, and they pinched my rib cage, so I did not order the sport seats as I intended. I'm glad I sat in them first! :surprise:
TagMan
True, but Audi/B&O are still making the best in car sound systems, followed by Mark Levinson, Dynaudio, and B&W. Lexicon is definitely up there with those names, but its nothing special.
TM
I will say I think the Genesis spells big trouble for the Avalon, 300, Lucerne, etc. None of those cars have "A-list" designer sound systems, or are nearly as nice inside as the Genesis appears to be.
I think Hyundai's name itself is the biggest obstacle. Thankfully, it's intangible. If the reality of the immense value hits home with enough people, then the Genesis will be a success. I'm already on record that it will indeed succeed, but it's no slam dunk because of the association of "cheap cars" mostly associated with the marque thus far. Don't you agree?
TagMan
But an R8 4.2 TDI would hit the absolute perfect sweet spot. It would give you just about all the performance of the petrol R8 (think 0-60 in 4.5, which is enough for me, thanks!), with about twice the fuel efficiency. It would also weigh roughly the same. Sign me up!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Oddly, the only X5's I've driven are specimens with 18" rims. A friend has a 3.0si... with 18" rims. We test drove three... with 18" rims. So I can't really speak for this. However, I go on an X5 blog semi-regularly and there is a difference in ride quality between the Sport and non-Sport models, however, it shouldn't be enough to keep someone from buying the Sport Package. Why didn't I get it? Well, my wife doesn't care about the sporty ride--she just loves the car as is.
I would imagine that the 4.8i Sport with 20" rims has the best handling.
A facelift won't be for awhile--it only came out last year! 2009 seems reasonable, as a 2010 model. Don't expect anything drastic, as is BMW's way, but there could be a new engine. I do know that there are two or three new engines coming out within the next year, rendering my car obsolete: an X5 35i (3.0 twin-turbo straight six), X5 35d (diesel twin-turbo) and X5 50i (twin-turbo 4.0L V8). The only one I'm not sure about is the twin-turbo V8, because that may just be reserved for the new X6.
I hope the Ferrari SUV doesn't happen with all my heart.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Yup. You can chalk me up for that, too... the prospect of an A8, A8L or even S8 just doesn't excite me. Bring on the RS4!!!
We may have to revise the guidelines of the "HELC" forum if we all want to stay on here!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 audi S4 Cabriolet
But an R8 4.2 TDI would hit the absolute perfect sweet spot. It would give you just about all the performance of the petrol R8 (think 0-60 in 4.5, which is enough for me, thanks!), with about twice the fuel efficiency. It would also weigh roughly the same. Sign me up!
Gosh, esf, I just love the Audi R8! Since there aren't any tests yet on the V12 diesel that I know of, I would reserve judgement until the performance data is clear, and also the driving experience itself, beyond the data. The V12 mighty feel heavy as you suggest, or on the other hand perhaps its mid-ship location might become a positive handling attribute in spite of its hefty nature... I suggest waiting to see what the V12-equipped beast can do and what it drives like before you declare it as a mistake.
You could be right, of course, but I'm just suggesting that it could be a fantastic combination, and no one really knows this car's full potential yet... except maybe the engineers at Audi... and even they may not know how far they can push it. Somehow I doubt they would announce that they are putting the V12 diesel in the R8 engine bay if it didn't deliver awesome performance characteristics. It could very well be a real screaming monster!!
TagMan
If u were not a family man will u still would have gotten x5 or u would go for something like a 911? because most messages I read every1 wants a fun car and sports sedan. no 1 really seem to like SUV no matter its a porsche or a bmw.
I like suv because of the little high seats position not because its a family or 7 to 8passenger truck.
People usually buy X5's for fun as well as to be able to handle winter. I don't think you will have too much fun with 20" wheels and I don't think you'll be getting very far in the white stuff.
I have 17" wheels/winter tires on a Cayenne and love them.
Think about it--smaller controller than either iDrive or COMAND, with a handful of buttons surrounding it. Granted, not as many buttons as on the Audi interpretation, but they're there.
Unrelated, the new A4/A5 interior looks beautiful in colors OTHER THAN BLACK. Coincidentally, black is the only color it's really been represented in on the Internet, which makes people think it's cheaper than the B6/B7 interior. Not true... all reviews I've read suggest that Audi once again raises the bar for interior refinement in the entry-exec class.
That A4 3.0TDI sounds sweet, as does the twin-turbo V6 S4, but the B8 RS4 is the one I'm watching for.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
I concur that the Hyundai name will be a mental hurdle to overcome by many people. I was one who chose to look beyond the name, simply because I could see the build quality and overall value, and bought a Hyundai for my wife 2 years ago. We've owned Volvo, SAAB, BMW, MB, Toyota, and Honda over the years, and this is the first vehicle we've ever owned that didn't have one warranty claim or any issue in the first 2 years of ownership. My opinion of Hyundai has changed since the purchase because of this, I can assure you.
Perhaps Hyundai should change their motto to: "Inexpensive to buy, and built to stay that way." Lose the word "cheap," as it has the wrong connotation. After all, Lexus is nothing other than a Toyota, and Acura is a Honda - remember what many Americans thought of Toyota and Honda back in the '70s - cheap Japanese cars, when Japanese meant anything else BUT quality.
TM