By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
That may very well be so. A small company beating the big guys would be a great story indeed.
But with this David and Goliath story the adavantage goes to Goliath since it's not only the battery technology that counts but also the ability of manufacture them with high quality control. And Toshiba, Sanyo , Fuji and other big battery companies have a manufacturing advantage over small firms such as A123.
The most likely scenario is that if A123 succeeds they will end up being bought out by a bigger company that already has the manufacturing smarts to mass produce a lithium ion battery without it exploding or burning.
However, after driven a few turbo charged- and NA-engine cars I am now more convinced than ever that given 2 engines with comparable performance and FE, I'll definitely choose NA over FI on any given day.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
So... you've driven BMW's (335i) twin-turbo 3.0L straight six? Torque delivered as low as 1400 RPM, and then all the way to redline, with no discernable lag, and talk about smooth... much smoother than most N/A engines. Also, have you driven VW/ Audi's turbocharged 2.0L FSI? Certainly not as buttery smooth as the BMW engine, but nonetheless much smoother than many N/A engines... I don't think you are giving credit where it is rightfully and very clearly due here.
TagMan
In relative term: $10k less than the RS4 and no doubt will be less expensive than the M3 and C63 by a sizable margin.
Looks like a winner! :shades:
Yes, twice as matter of fact (once with sports package and once without). You are right the torque delievery at low RPM is good and the turbo lag is almost non-existence. However, unfortunately (or is it fortunately) that I happened to drive a car with a very comparable NA engine and it is cleared to me the lag is still there but hard to detect for people who don't get to drive a butter smooth NA V6 back to back.
much smoother than most N/A engines
You hit it right on the nail and "most" is the keyword.
Also, have you driven VW/ Audi's turbocharged 2.0L FSI?
Yes I did. I had a 2.0T A4 last year for 2 weeks while my car was being shipped to California. The engine is powerful, after the turbo kicks in that is. However, I just couldn't stand the horrible turbo lag I have experienced with this car. Like I said, for any given Joe who has never drove a butter smooth modern V6 like Lexus' 2GR-FSE and Infiniti's VQ this engine might be the best thing ever. Once compared to a superior NA counterpart then suddenly the downside of a FI engine shows.
I don't think you are giving credit where it is rightfully and very clearly due here.
Since all those are from my own experience so if you still feel that way then be my guest.
I just like the feel of good low end torque without having to "stomp" on it. It goes back to my old V-8 Camaro days.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I had an "H.O." 5-speed manual tranny Camaro in late eighties. The M/T car was banned right after it was manufactured, due to emissions issues, so I felt lucky to have it. It was a wonderful car that had surprising handling, and I have fond memories of it.
TagMan
Why any company would put a turbo four in an SUV, I have no idea. Acura wanted "V6 power with four cylinder fuel economy", and they ended up with V8 fuel economy. And it still can't outrun the V6 RAV4.
The BMW 3.0TT is still the cream of the crop as far as turbos are concerned, though I think the new Audi 3.0T will be a very sweet engine also. The Lexus 3.5L is a prime example of the smoothness of NA engines, but the Nissan VQ? Sorry, I don't think so. I like Infiniti more than the next guy, but the gruff ol' dog that is the 3.5L VQ is not a smooth engine. Not when it gets to the upper end of its powerband, anyway.
Question for you guys, I am considering the 335i and I know a few of you have one. Is it smooth? Do you have the stick or auto? I agree with the current thread logic that it will be tough to beat a twin turbo in the future as a light efficient powerful enginge choice.
Happy weekend.
so 19 seems to be perfect for this vehicle rite.
thanks.
ok. roads fine. my priority is balance between both handling ride+comfort and safety.
there seems to be a lot of discussion going on abt turbos or NA. but it still doesn't seem to clear whats better and some are saying that turbos r the future engine !!!!I
It seems to me that IMO until now bmw are trying to make the best turbo to be as smooth as the NA.
I think the x5 v8 will very soon be replace by the new turbo by next year same as the new x6 v8turbo.
Is this correct if im not wrong that BMW are bringing new TT engines to save cost and gain profit for the company as well as better MPG.
thanks.
Amen!
Pardon me for being so anal with regards to that depreciation discussion of ours. Kind of reminds me of that old joke:
What do accountants suffer from that ordinary people don't?
Depreciation.
The 335i is a great car. I've driven it a couple of times, and it's definitely fun and very smooth. I think I would probably lean towards the new A4 though. Even though the 3.2 is kind of underpowered vs. the rest of the class (as is usually the case with the A4 V6), I think it looks a lot better than the 3, both inside and out. The new S4 will definitely be something to watch out for. And of course I still like the G35.
I just reviewed a printout of the order for my 135i, and I noticed that it includes "Active Steering". I'm not all that sure I want this. I have a little time to "edit" the order before it is slated for production, so I want to get it right.
What do you truly know first-hand about "Active Steering"? I've read very mixed impressions of it. Some praise it, and others say to forget it.
TagMan
From what I remember of it in the 545i, I definitely didn't like it. It seemed like the system couldn't keep up with rapid changes in speed, and it would keep changing ratios on you so that you had no idea how far a turn of the wheel would actually turn the car. There also seemed to be a big drop in road feel compared with the standard setup. I haven't tried it in the 3 series or newer BMWs since then. C&D's review of the 645 with AS was not kind. They called it "the ultimate driving simulator". From what I've read in the mags of AS systems in general, the comments seem to range from "not really noticeable" to "lousy". I can't remember a reviewer that specifically praised an AS system.
TagMan
Regards,
Jose
I also think the fact that the M division does not use AS speaks volumes. Clearly if it offered any sort of performance benefit, they would use it. It seems to be there mostly to make parking maneuvers easier, which speed sensitive steering is already perfectly capable of doing without variable ratio thrown in. The last time BMW tried to make parking easier (2001 3-series with super power assist) everyone hated it and they dropped it.
That's a bullseye, IMO! Excellent point that sums it up right there! Good thinking LG. Thanks! I won't be second-guessing myself now when I purchase the car without Active Steering.
I watched some additional video clips of the vehicle from the BMW website and others, and the more I learn about the 135i, the more I like it. This is truly a great car. I noticed that the Sedona Red color that I chose looks very different in the videos than on the main pages of the website. Still nice looking, but ,quite frankly, less attractive... so I'm not quite as sure all of a sudden about my color choice. This car seems more difficult to pick a color for than any car I've ever purchased. Give me your thoughts on this.
TagMan
For me, a BMW has to be black/tan. That's the only combo I really like them in. Of course the wife's X3 is not mine, so its blue (all her cars have been blue) with gray on the inside. I've never really been a fan of bright red cars, too flashy IMO. My main car is usually black or gray, and my Jags have been blue (wife made me do that), then BRG, then two silvers.
I've had terrific luck with bright silver metallic cars, as they keep their lustre and stay cool in the summer. Also, they don't show the dirt as quick as many other colors. The resale has always been exceptional and quick with silver cars. Perhaps not as exciting as some of the other more flambouyant colors, but it's hard to go wrong with silver. If I do end up selecting silver, I'll consider the taupe interior because it lightens up the interior a little, yet still maintains the black primary dash, which I like. White is a great color on certain vehicles, but seems out of place on this BMW, again I'm not sure.
As of now, I'm still struggling with the color, as you can tell. I've never gone through this before... strange. :confuse:
I already killed the AS (thanks
TagMan
TM
Regards,
Jose
You suggest that the Sedona Red you saw was very good? Can you describe it at all?
TagMan
The titanium silver is a really good choice.. not too grey or too white. Sort of like the "silver lining"
RE: the Active Steering... it felt to me like the car did not have that classic BMW feel. Although it did make it very responsive, like some race cars, but BMW's suspension and steering is all ready unmatched IMO. If you are going to order without a test drive then I would say go without it... you certainly know you can't go wrong there!
So my knowledge is based on what I read about Active Steering and based on that there is no compelling reason whatsover to have such an option.
Good luck! I think you will love this car.
It is incredibly smooth. Best engine in the segment IMO. Turbo lag? What turbo lag? Maybe there is but I cant feel it. I have a stick and I would never consider an auto tranny.
My spartan BMW has a Sport Package and gray paint. And that's it and I feel no remorse about not adding any more options to my car.
What I saw was this color (Sedona Red Metallic); though more brilliant—the sun was hitting it:
http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/byo/byohome.aspx?enc=DEqeqlC5gY9y07RQ1T/V- - - - - - a7dNPO0ebdnaBFmWWF4haV0=
but nonetheless more saturated than this one
http://www.carpages.co.uk/bmw/bmw_images/bmw_1_series_coupe_02_07_07.jpg
Definitely much more joyful than the Crimson Red.
Have I made clear myself? :confuse:
Regards,
Jose
based on the wide choices you have in Europe what cars are on your top list other than a 1 Series assuming that car is even on your top list.
My top choice in Europe would be a BMW 335d followed by a Audi A4 3.0TDI followed by a ????---I haven't really pondered upon immigrating to Europe in order to complete this list of mine
I envy you for the selection of cars you have in Europe. Any cars here in North America that you wish you could own in Europe but is unavailable in Europe like a Chrysler Sebring or a Buick Lucerne? :sick:
I may be off base but I think I would also choose the tan interior with the red exterior.
I have been going round and round trying to figure out what car I'm going to get to replace my daily driver but I decided today that I'm going to order a 335 convertible and just get a sedan next fall. I can get through the summer without one, I have other cars to use.
Gosh, BMW is sure popular on this forum lately.
TagMan
Dewey, you have pulled me to the very edge. Next week I will know whether my crashed 530d is going to be repaired or totalled. If the latter, I doubt I will be offered more than 27,000 €. So, I am pondering among
Audi A4 2.0 TDI DPF Quattro, 44,300 €, 240 hp, 510 torque, 6.9 l•km, 6.1 sec • 62 miles
Audi A6 3.0 TDI DPF Quattro, 51,810 €, 233 hp, 459 torque, 8.0 l•km, 7.1 secs • 62 miles
BMW 330d, 44,000 €, 231 hp, 510 torque, 6.5 l•km, 6.7 secs • 62 miles
BMW 335d, 49,600 €, 286 hp, 592 torque, 7.5 l•km, 6.2 secs • 62 miles
BMW 530d, 49,800 €, 235 hp, 510 torque, 6.4 l•km, 6.8 secs • 62 miles
BMW 535d, 56,500 €, 286 hp, 592 torque, 6.8 l•km, 6.4 secs • 62 miles
MB 320 CDI Classic 7G-Tronic, 52,300 €, 224 hp, 520 torque, 7.6 l•km, 6.8 secs • 62 miles
(Basic prices, no options; 3.78533 liters • gallon; 1.6093472 Km • mile; torque is given in mKgDIN; sorry, I have no time—nor patience—for conversions
My ranking is at present time:
535d = 530d = 335d > A4 TDI
Being 535d at the top only because of the fame of its engine. (530d is considered here the best compromise between performance, price and consume.)
But E60s are at approaching the end of their cycle. Thus, If my crashed car is totalled, I could buy a good second-hand 535d or 530d and wait a few years for the new Bimmers, or go for a new 335d.
A4 is not bad at all, but for me it would be the fourth option. This is sort of irrational: I like the Audis but I still like more the Bimmers.
All right, lets start the round of opinions. They will be very well welcomed. But may be my car will be repaired after all.
Regards,
Jose
BTW, I've seen that pic of the Sedona Red on the BMW websie... The videos on their site are awesome, but the Sedona Red looks very different in the videos than in the pictures. If you get a chance to view the videos, let me know whether the picture or the video looks more like the car you saw.
Thanks Jose,
TagMan
Regards,
Jose
Tough choices. I am showing my age but I think I would go with the Mercedes. Good luck!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
For me it would be the A4 or the A6. The current 5 has never done anything for me, and if I'm going to get a 3 series, the only option would be the 335i coupe. I know how good BMW's 35d engine is, but it isn't as good as the 35i. Audi on the other hand, the 3.0TDi is the best 6 they've got.
You are buying a performance, it may not be an 'M' but we should really acknowledge that the 135 will be HIGH performance, 2-door coupe. It will handle like a familiar leather glove with an impeccable interior fit and finish.
Of course you buy the sedona red.
If you were figuring out the color for a 4-door sedan then conservative suggests classic. In a 2-door, conservative suggests the missed opportunity to drive a 'dream' car.
Just my 2 pennies.
IMO the best looking BMW on the roads today. Unfortunately a convertible makes as much sense as a swimming pool in Toronto and yes we do have a swimming pool in our backyard and during our short summers I wonder why we even have one. :confuse:
I dont think we will see a 5 series diesel on our shores until the E60 is replaced with a future generation model.
Funny... we were just talking about it during the game... looks like the Brady Bunch has done it again!... and we realized that the 135i is being purchased for its sports attributes, not its ammenities. Like you say, that spells Sedona red!... We're still talking about the interior, but we are leaning towards solid black leather with the aluminum trim instead of the wood trim.
Thanks!
TagMan
That has to be one of the most passionless reasons I ever heard for owning a MB. Where the heck are all those MB fans in this forum? The fellow below sounds as excited about MB as a former forum member that most of us know: Merc1.
"I started driving Mercedes-Benz when I was undercover. I was posing as a gangster and I started driving these cars and they were really nice I started with a C-Class and then moved up and got the CL. This is my second CL.
"And I'll never drive another car. I will not drive anything but Mercedes. I'll walk. But I won't drive another car. And that's not a snooty thing — it's the best car in the world, so why not drive it?" says the 52-year-old Mathers, who also worked for the FBI, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, the U.S. Customs Service, Interpol and Scotland Yard.
link title
Oops, deleted. Oh well, the article you posted was interesting... inner-city Mercedes (as opposed to country club Mercedes.
TagMan
Here is the post I had deleted and miraculously is resurrected back to life
I copped out and chose wood trim. I guess middle aging is mellowing me out .
Your gray 4-door deserves the rich look of wood... fits the car beautifully!
BTW, darn that BMW bug!... Once it bites it won't let go, and I think it hooks you for life!!
TagMan
I know the feeling. Everytime I say that my next car will be a non-BMW I end up getting a BMW anyways. It's an addiction I've been afflicted with for longer than a decade and apparently there are no 12 Step Treatments except maybe a Porsche.
LOL... Gosh, even the Porsche hasn't saved me. I MUST have the 135i coupe!!!!
TagMan
Where's the product? The ML and GL are largely letdowns, and I won't even get into the R-class. The E, CLK, and SL are ancient, and the novelty has worn off the CLS. The Boxster/Cayman are better cars than the SLK. The new C-class has a better interior than the Kia quality of the '00, but it's not even close to the best. A Cadillac should not embarrass a Mercedes on the inside, but that's exactly what's happened. The CL is nice if you're looking for an enormous cruiser, but it's really just a two door S-class, a bit boring compared to a Maser GT, XKR, or Continental GT. It's cool that AMG has shown they can beat BMW M with the CLK Black Series, but you're still stuck with a CLK, and a pricey one at that. Who in their right mind is going to buy one of those when you could have an R8 or 911 instead? Really the only class leader they have is the S-class.