Luxury Lounge

1180181183185186428

Comments

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I'll take a RWD, IS-size and similar performance hybrid Lexus with 250+hp and 40 mpg over the 335d any given day.

    As of today Unicorns and the hybrid IS have a lot in common while the BMW 335d exists as of today and will soon be available to us here in North America.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    and terrific handling, as well as that familiar overall look and feel that you have grown to appreciate for over a decade

    True.

    BMW Diesel + Hybrid Toytoa/Lexus = Two New Redsidents in Dewey's Garage in the Year 2010. ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Yes, like I said before, if I am buying a car within a year, the 335d will definitely be my choice.

    By reading the press release I can sense that a hybrid IS is not going to happen. Looks like the future Lexus will be dedicated models to hybrid only like the Prius which means those will be designed from ground up to be a hybrid. However, without any further information the best we can do is guess about what kind of models those will be.

    Since I'll be again looking for a small 4-door sedan (or hatchback) it'll be delighted to see one of those models to be a RWD IS-size and similar performance vehicle with 250+hp, 40 mpg and LI batteries. Looks like those hybrids will debut in 2009 Detroit autoshow as either the 2010 or 2011 models which fits perfectly into the timeframe of my next round of car shopping.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Great reporting on the auto show. The GT-R is a beauty and kicks sand in the faces of its competitors. I dont know what has happened these past few weeks but for some bizarre reason an R8, GT-R or even the new BMW M3 are not even on my Dream Auto List. Speeding tickets and living in an area which has among the heftiest speeding fines and punishments in the world may have something to do with it.

    Awe, heck... you are still in hibernation up there. You'll wake up with a healthy appetite as Spring approaches. ;)

    edit: your 2010 garage sounds good, and very realistic. :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The all new 2009 Passat CC... will be here later this year.

    image

    image

    image

    I'm impressed, and still bullish on VW's long-term outlook.

    TagMan
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    If you've got a hankering for a V8-powered, carbon fiber-roofed über 3-series, BMW has finally named its price for the M3 coupe and sedan. $57,275 will buy you entry into the M3 Coupe, and bargain hunters willing to settle for an extra pair of doors can get the M3 Sedan in their driveway for $54,575.

    Source: Autoblog

    What does that mean to me: One can get into a M3 for only $15k more than a well-equipped (not loaded) 135i!!! :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:

    With the M3 sedan at $55k and IS F at $56k, both the C63 AMG and new RS4 better be come out swinging...
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Funny you mentioned vacation homes. I see very few "toys" (e.g., AM V8, 997 911, etc.) in high end vacation home areas. The second home owners I see are all in new-ish Tahoes. This may be either asset allocation of scarce funds ("pick one: a home on Nantucket or a new 997"), the active, equipment-intensive life style of second home owners necessitates a Tahoe to haul/tow everything around in, or , IMHO, less likely, they leave the 997 at home.

    I've always wondered if the prevalence of very high end cars in So. Fl and So. Cal was possible because of what I believe to be is the low percentage of second home ownership of residents of Miami and LA?

    Thanks for asking. The Silverado was ordered in Blue Granite Metallic with the cashmere leather interior. I ordered it with the 5.3 V8 to get the Tow package and its accompanying coolers and locking rear end for "free". With the 5.3 you also get active fuel management and the engine shuts down to just four cylinders under light load. Other options include side curtain air bags and GM's Stabiltrak stabilty control because everyone not just Volvo owners need these, the cargo load management package ($95) for lobster pots and mountain bikes in the bed, and power driver's seat. Invoice, not MSRP, was about 31K. George Bush paid 12K of that.

    It came standard with XM radio which I love. After the free intro period it is $12 per month and I have already re-upped. It is that good. How can I get XM for my home?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    If you have DirecTV, XM comes with it. Also every XM customer can listen online to XM. So, if your PC has decent speakers, you're good to go!

    BTW, nice truck! :)

    TagMan
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    Impressive. Interior shows a lot of Audi styling look and feel. Pretty nice wheels as well. I wonder if it will be offered in the US with a diesel option. VW may contend again if this is priced right.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Even the mass affluent deserves some kind of sympathy. :cry:

    The latest sign of trouble: Luxury-car sales fell 6.1% in 2007, despite strong sales for some newly redesigned big-sellers like BMW AG's 3 Series compact sedan. Hit hard were midsize and large sedans, which sell for $50,000 and up and normally generate huge profits for premium auto manufacturers. Sales of Mercedes-Benz's flagship S-Class sedan, which was overhauled only a year ago, tumbled 15.6% last year.

    Audi AG, the luxury brand of Volkswagen AG, saw its sales rise 3.8% to 93,508 vehicles, but only because it added a new sport-utility vehicle called the Q7. Without it, the brand's sales fell 9%

    James Selwa, president and CEO of Maserati North America Inc., said sales of his company's cars are continuing to rise, but noted they sell for over $100,000 and typically appeal to people who have more than $10 million in assets and are unlikely to feel much of a pinch in any economic downturn.

    But he is now seeing signs of economic stress among people one rung down on the economic ladder -- a group he calls the "mass affluent." These are consumers who typically made money in the stock market's run-up in the 1990s, bought expensive homes, refinanced their mortgages and now are getting squeezed.

    "They are feeling a lot less wealthy now," Mr. Selwa said.

    Wall Street Journal

    image
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Well, then get it with the AMG bodykit! If you can afford a CL, you can afford the (way overpriced) $6K bodykit.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Thanks for all the info. Excellent post!

    Firstly, the Nissan GT-R looks much better in real life than I could have ever imagined...

    I expected that. The GT-R is stunning, but much more so in black than in silver.

    The R8 is gorgeous, and is a car to lust for, if you are willing to wait a long time.

    Dreaming.

    The Jaguar section was jammed with people... surprising.

    I don't think it's very surprising at all. The XF deserves the attention. I'm seriously considering it now. The supercharged version, of course. ;)

    The BMW 1-series was the 128i, but thankfully it was in the Sedona Red that I've been questioning lately. The color is on the order of metallic red paint primer... sort of a clay color red. I hated it.

    LOL, I'm surprised, but happy to hear that's out of the way. Maybe it's just me, but I would recommend something other than silver. That car will look slick in black.

    The Dodge Demon two-seater convertible is adorable. This car could do very well. Better than the Sky or Solstice, IMO.

    Sadly, it will not: Dodge has decided to switch it to FWD and has rendered the car pointless in the process.

    There was a Chrysler supercar called the ME Four-Twelve that was stunning...

    That was at the Chicago show last year (???).

    The VW BlueMotion, as they call it, is a diesel vehicle that will likely get the equivalent of over 60 mpg here in the US, when it finally arrives in '09!!

    I assume you're talking about the Jetta diesel? That will be something else.

    Oh, yes, the Bugatti Veyron... there was a "for sale" sign near it... not a factory sticker or anything... $1,750,000.00.

    Oh, pfft, that's pocket change. :P

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Ah, you beat me to it! I was going to post those prices!

    Anyway, that is extremely tempting. So, the M3 coupe looks beautiful, drives perfectly, has a comfortable everyday ride and costs less than a base RS4 or C63? Sounds good to me. Audi had better step their game up with the next RS4, or BMW will win me over!

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Funny you mentioned vacation homes. I see very few "toys" (e.g., AM V8, 997 911, etc.) in high end vacation home areas. The second home owners I see are all in new-ish Tahoes. This may be either asset allocation of scarce funds ("pick one: a home on Nantucket or a new 997")

    You're absolutely right, and that's why.

    Your Silverado sounds very classy, yet rugged. I built a GMC Sierra Denali, for kicks, and it is a really nice truck. Both of them.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    No, I wasn't there. But I have news!

    Audi R8 V12 TDI Concept!
    link title

    BMW X6 Hybrid Concept!
    link title

    2009 Fisker Karma!
    link title

    Cadillac CTS Coupe Concept!
    link title

    Land Rover LRX Concept!
    link title

    Lincoln MKT Concept!
    link title

    2009 Audi TT-S!
    link title

    Every one of these cars is worth looking at... yes, even the Lincoln!

    From AutoSpies.com... they have the best photo galleries.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    tagman did u see the x6 in person? sit inside it? how does it look when compare to the x5 so entertaining keep it up guys. by the way bmws destroyed

    link title

    BMW x5 xdrive 35d 0 to 60 in 6.2 thats faster than the current x5 v8... :surprise:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Fix 'em and sell them as new?!!! OMG, that's horrible. :sick:
    TM
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I haven't seen the X6 in person, but in magazines, it looks strange! I'll save final thoughts on it until I see it up close. Regardless, my inital impressions were of disdain.

    -moo
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Sorry, there was no X6 at the show. I'm reserving opinion until the hybrid version comes out, as that vehicle seems the most practical and realistic for the X6's bodystyle... Spacious 5-door that gets great fuel economy could be a good vehicle for a lot of mom's out there.

    BTW, to clarify your post, the X5 diesel will go 0-60 in 7.2. It's the 3-series diesel that achieves it in 6.2. Still, very respectable numbers, IMO.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Gentlemen... feast your eyes and think about this! How impressive! $80,000. Compared to the Tesla, it's a steal. In fact, compared to a Lexus LS600hL it is the bargain of the century.

    image

    image

    image

    Here's the link.

    Fisker's Karma

    Finally! We are starting to see cars to actually get excited about.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Leave it to Toyota...

    image

    Coming this fall!!

    link title

    TagMan
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I see that's more like Toyota's answer to Ford Edge and Nissan Murano.

    It'll be interesting to see if Lexus is getting its own version of this.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well, the fastback is the style designator I was looking at, but I agree the segment and the price are certainly less than an X6 would ever be. The Edge appearance is a bit more traditional SUV, even if a crossover.

    This raises a good point, however, that the lines between SUVs and crossovers have blurred so much recently, it's become difficult to distinguish some of them, without looking at the chassis/suspension components to determine what is the best definition.

    A Lexus variant? Never underestimate TMC!

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Duh... no kidding.

    DETROIT – After two years of slow sales, Daimler executives are reconsidering the look of the next R-class.

    Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche admitted Sunday that the Mercedes' SUV/minivan crossover has failed to meet expectations.

    " It has definitely not lived up to our original plans," Zetsche said in an interview. " We are in the early phase of thinking about the next concept. It might be a one-for-one successor to the R class or it could be different."

    Zetsche said the crossover segment has not developed as well as Mercedes anticipated.

    He said there will be a successor, but offered few details.

    Mercedes-Benz initially planned annual production of 50,000 for the R class, with 25,000 vehicles slated for the US. The vehicle has never approached that volume.

    The R class is built in Mercedes' US plant in Vance, Alabama, alongside the M and GL class premium SUVs.

    In the US, Mercedes tried to increase sales by lowering the price by $5,000 and offering a three-seat second row, for a total of seven seats. Last year, R class sales in its main market, the US, fell 28 percent to 18,168 units.

    Daimler sales boss Klaus Maier said the mistake was assuming the R class could attract a wide range of buyers.

    " Our expectations were higher than the return," he said. " It was a lesson learned. There is a volume out there. Whatever we do in the future, it must be feasible."


    TagMan
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I love how Autoblog puts this in perspective:

    And as any recovering addict could tell you, admitting you have a problem is the first step on the long road to recovery.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ...bargain hunters willing to settle for an extra pair of doors can get the M3 Sedan in their driveway for $54,575.

    Always listen to your intuition, folks! I knew I should've waited for the M3 sedan! I KNEW it! I could've saved an additional $11.5K over my 550i Sport! :cry: Not to mention I was wanting an M3 sedan but wasn't sure when it'd be hitting the market. :sick:
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Zetsche said the crossover segment has not developed as well as Mercedes anticipated.

    Absolutely not! The crossover segment has developed beautifully! They are not really admitting their mistake here, because it was THEIR problem, not the segment's. The R-Class looks like a hearse, and it has sold accordingly.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    This mess makes the X6 look appealing. I'm sure they will still sell a bunch of them.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    Always listen to your intuition, folks! I knew I should've waited for the M3 sedan!

    I bought a Mazdaspeed3 to tide me over for a few months until the 135i hit the streets; now that I'm learning about the N54 fuel dilution problems as well as the lack of a true LSD, I'm looking at the M3 sedan as well. I want to take an extended test drive before I make the final call as it may still feel a bit too porky for my tastes. At least it still has three pedals...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    It'll be interesting to see if Lexus is getting its own version of this.

    Well there is supposed to be a Lexus crossover to slot above the RX, called the JX last time I checked. Information about it has been basically nill.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    If the sales of the newly re-designed S Class fell 17% last year, what is that going to do to the price of a used new-style S Class a couple of years from now? The (there is only one) Maine MB dealer quoted me a residual of 57% on a three year lease with 12K miles per year. Clearly this is an inflated figure. But with a drop in sales for their new model it will be hard for MB to even hold on to 47-50% of the MSRP three years out. You don't have to be Sam Zell to think that there might be some bargains out there in the S Class world in a couple of years.

    Briteness (Oh, Briteness, where are thou?) a year or so ago would post regularly about BWM's game of lease subsidization. He thought that their high residuals was a key component in a houses of cards that was eventually going to come crashing down.

    Has anyone told the two MA MB dealers who each have huge new facilities in process about this?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Relax, doomsdayer... things aren't going to come crashing down. Some collateral damage, that's all. This won't be the first recession that auto dealers have had to endure. Sure, no want wants a recession, but it happens. Is it good for the bottom line? Of course not. But as Mercedes and others get creative enough to hold on tight during the nasty ride, then good for them... and the consumer. Expect some incredible deals near term! It actually might be a great time to buy/lease a car, if you think about it.

    And... if this turns out to be an average recession, then it will be over long before those leases are up anyway. ;)

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Not good news for Acura's ad agency. In CR's latest brand perception survey, Honda scored second best behind Toyota, while Acura got the worst score in the industry, just behind Audi and Mitsubishi. Some other interesting tidbits:

    Among new-car shoppers, safety (63 percent) is the most important consideration, followed by quality (58 percent)

    Consumers consider friendliness to the environment (35 percent) to be more significant than styling (23 percent). Yeah, suuuurree they do.

    The category “technology and innovation” (15 percent) scored as least important to car buyers.

    Consumers overwhelmingly perceive Volvo as the leading safety brand. Its 77-percent score gives it a dominant lead over second-place Toyota’s 20 percent. But other automakers that are consistently on the cutting edge of safety technology—such as BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz—don’t even make it into the top five.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Among new-car shoppers, safety (63 percent) is the most important consideration, followed by quality (58 percent)

    Consumers consider friendliness to the environment (35 percent) to be more significant than styling (23 percent). Yeah, suuuurree they do.


    Exactly... doesn't seem quite right, does it? Well, once you factor in that the survey is only comprised of CR participants/subscribers, then you suddenly understand why it is quite distorted... as is quite obvious from the answers.

    Consumers overwhelmingly perceive Volvo as the leading safety brand. Its 77-percent score gives it a dominant lead over second-place Toyota’s 20 percent. But other automakers that are consistently on the cutting edge of safety technology—such as BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz—don’t even make it into the top five.

    Again, same problem with misperception. Harsh as this may sound, CR subscribers themselves should be the focus of a survey to determine just how distorted their views really are, as compared with the more mainstream reality.

    To illustrate this point, consider that if the survey was taken using only the readers/subscribers of Car & Driver magazine, for example... the results would also be distorted, but in a much different perspective.

    TagMan
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I simply don't see how Acura, let alone Audi, are down so low. They could be low for luxury brands in America--that, I'm okay with--but behind Mitsubishi, Subaru, Buick, etc?

    It basically proves to me that most American buyers are ignorant. Audi is now a leader in safety, style, performance and luxury... but they don't know that. Acura gives you a good near-luxury car for your dollar... but they don't know that.

    Even Toyota should be rated below Honda at this point.

    :confuse:

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It basically proves to me that most American buyers are ignorant.

    CR readers don't completely represent American buyers any more than readers of Newsweek, BusinessWeek, or Motor Trend. They only represent their own slice of America, which therefore is their own limited and isolated perspective. That's why it looks "ignorant" to you... which means you are essentially correct, but narrowed down to the CR survey participants. ;)

    TagMan
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I would like to put on the flamesuit and claim that CR readers do represent the majority of the average American auto buyers. Of course enthusiasts like people who frequent this board will no doubt to have different views.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I would like to put on the flamesuit and claim that CR readers do represent the majority of the average American auto buyers.

    OK. You are in the hazard suit and you've made your "claim".

    Now all you have to do is PROVE it.

    Additionally, keep in mind that the survey is comprised of subscribing "participants", which further limits and isolates the results to the pool of respondents only.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Right along with this same survey CR rated Acura second behind Honda in Reliability. I guess the readers aren't paying attention. Frankly, who cares what they think about a Brands ad agency.

    Say what you will about CR, it is probably the most influential car rating mag out there.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Now all you have to do is PROVE it.

    Let's see you PROVE him wrong! :shades:

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I can't really prove it, that's why the flamesuit was on.

    It's just a hunch that I think the majority of CR subscribers are from the middle-class, live in suburbs and single family house owner type of demography; that to me represents the average American auto buyers. Also, I am willing to bet that the percentage of Camry owners who subscribe to CR is high than the percentage of Porsche owners.

    *Flamesuit still on*
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Say what you will about CR, it is probably the most influential car rating mag out there.

    Can't really argue about that. That might be the reason why the enthusiasts are so anti-CR.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Can I just note that we have lots to talk about here that has to do with luxury cars so we really don't need to get sidetracked on this never-ending CR argument? Especially when there are more appropriate places for it?

    Comments: Consumer Reports/JD Power Rankings

    :)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... At least it still has three pedals...

    Oh, don't get me wrong. I have the 3 pedals in my 550i. But the M3 sedan's tidier dimensions are more to my liking. My 550i is still about 7" shorter than my 300M Special was, though.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Thanks for that link! :)
    TM
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    OK Tagman, I'll defer to you. But please understand, I'm a guy who thinks constantly about what my father would have called "overhead" and a newly minted MBA would call "variable costs". (Although didn't Keynes say that in the long run, all costs are variable?). I see these new 40,000 square foot all glass showrooms built on primo real estate and I wonder how the poor dealer is going to heat and cool these things with a slight drop in sales. I see the new quonset hut-look Hummer showrooms and I see an great opportunty for a rental center once the dealer-principal realizes that no one is ever going to buy a new Hummmer H1 or H2 ever again. I see overinflated residuals for German car leases, hear the rationalizations to support them, and then wonder if an exogeneous variable like a slight change in the tax laws might affect them. Heck, the government paid about one third the cost of my new Montana Mercedes (aka Chevy Silverado) pickup. Could you imagine how many company owners would no longer drive Denalis/Esclades, etc. if the tax laws were to change?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Could you imagine how many company owners would no longer drive Denalis/Esclades, etc. if the tax laws were to change?

    I agree with you that tax laws have a huge impact on many financial decisions. I do not know the actual number of company owners that would no longer drive those vehicles, but I would venture to guess that it is a significant number. The provision to rapidly depreciate and write-off a large percentage of the costs of specific vehicles certainly makes a big difference.

    It's an interesting incentive.

    edit: Poor dealer? Isn't that generally a contradiction of terms? ;)

    TagMan
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Tagman, I wrote this during lunch. I screwed it up by confusing fixed costs with variable costs. Clearly, fixed costs are the same as overhead and the poor, margin-compressed dealer will have a hard time meeting these.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I have the 3 pedals in my 550i.

    No offense intended, I wasn't slamming your 5er. I was just referring to the ongoing trend of replacing true manuals with SMG/DSG/whatever- cars such as the M5/6, GT-R, and the EVO GSR.

    But the M3 sedan's tidier dimensions are more to my liking.

    Mine too. I wish it was even smaller and lighter.

    My 550i is still about 7" shorter than my 300M Special was, though.

    Check out my CarSpace page if you want to see a real tank- slushbox and all. It was still a lot of fun, though...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    Always listen to your intuition, folks! I knew I should've waited for the M3 sedan! I KNEW it! I could've saved an additional $11.5K over my 550i Sport! Not to mention I was wanting an M3 sedan but wasn't sure when it'd be hitting the market.

    At that price I could have saved over 16K had I waited for a M3 instead of getting my '08 550i... but I LOVE THIS CAR! And glad I didn't wait. It all comes down to why are you purchasing the car. If speed & sport is your primary focus, then a M3 is the perfect choice. I didn't buy my car for the AutoX, I like the lux hwy performance and handling a lot more. Personally I feel the 550i equiped with the Sport Pkg. and 6 MT is perfectly positioned... it has the handling and sport feel as well as the lux-class of the 5 series.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.