By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I have to agree.
That facility deserves to sell RR, Bentley and Aston Martin.
Oh well, at least the LF-A (or GT F) will find it as right at home when goes on sale though.
Yes, any of the finer European marques... you are so right!!
TM
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
OK, as a follow up, I've already been able to reach my Mercedes guru, who says the '05 year is generally OK. The miles are a bit high, as I indicated, but that only means to check it's service history... which hopefully is very good, and it also has received the routine maintenance. In other words, do the usual due diligence as you would with any used car purchase.
Regarding the Designo upgrade... the initial cost of somewhere around $10K should not be worth much more today than a good clean comparable car without it. It should mostly be your gain, and the seller's loss, and hopefully it is a good-looking combination.
He suggested that you ask if there was an extended service contract on the vehicle, as they can usually be transferred to the next owner for a small fee. If so, pay the fee... it could be worth it. The only drawback in this case is that the mileage is so high that even an extended service contract would likely run out soon, or might have already expired if it was written to 60,000 miles, for example. Some of them go to 75,000 miles, or even 100,000 miles.
He didn't mention any specific concerns with the model year. I have not owned that particular car, so that's all I've got for you. Again, if anyone else here knows more, hopefully they can help. You might also check in the S-Class forum, if you haven't already. My general experience owning other models from Mercedes in the past would lead me to recommend that you check the history regarding the brakes, and the electrical.
Anyway, good luck. Let us know how it goes.
TagMan
It's about freeekin time Lexus! Is this some kind of a revelation
Having said this, I absolutely love my 2008 LS460L. It actually averages better in gas mileage than the LS600H and it sure is comfortable and fun to drive with all the "bells and whistles". Hopefully in 3 years, Lexus (or some other luxury company) will have perfected a luxury hybrid that gets awesome gas mileage. Until then I will be enjoying my present car.
I am not sure about that...
Thanks. There are defintite benefits to leasing especially for those who dont drive a lot. Also based on what you were saying in a prior post it appears that US tax laws for leased cars used for business purposes is far more generous than the ones we have here in Canada.
But let me warn you that this new distinct hybrid Lexus is not going to be equivalent to an LS. It will most likely be a Prius with a tuxedo like the ES is a Camry with a tuxedo.
If that is the case than I would prefer buying a Prius.
I don't mind it to be Prius-size but please makes it RWD, handles good, 250+ hp and 40+ mpg.
That's may very well be the new Mercedes that Dewey posted!! Otherwise, it's an imaginary car that we'd all like to own.
TM
Yeah, except wrong size.
Wrong sticker price too..
Just lease it.
TM
Can't, I drive more than 15k miles a year. Leasing is not an option for me.
Also, wrong size alone will scratch that from the list anyway.
Seems to be the same sort of deal except that the dealer is causing you pain somewhere else instead of a tooth. And you get to pay for all of this splendor.
:shades:
Louis, why not? My lease is for 18,000 mi. per year.
I guess it depends on how much you can write off.
Years ago when my BMW dealership was not sp fancy I paid reasonable out of warranty servicing costs. The very same year the dealership moved to an opulent new building I got a 6K $ estimate for repairs. I went to an independent with the estimate and told him what price he is willing to do those repairs. Turned out most those potential repairs were bogus and I only needed a $600 brake job. I spent 4 years with this independent and did not spend more than $500 annually to service and repair my car.
Opulence has a price. Personally I prefer going to a gritty looking shop with competent and honest mechanics.
Reminds me of the auto industry. BMW, Audi, MB and Lexus are planning smaller lower cost models to attract less affluent customers while Hyundai is trying to attract more affluent customers with its Genesis.
Last year Consumer Reports, a trade magazine, rated its filter coffee more highly than that offered by Starbucks
Just like a CR recommendation has helped Mcdonalds it is also helping Lexus. MB is sort of like Starbucks and is probably being negatively affected by CR results .
McDonald's is taking a big risk. About 65% of its sales in America are made in drive-through restaurants where customers stay in their cars, placing their orders and then receiving their food through a window. It is impossible to make a Starbucks-style “double-tall decaf hazelnut latte”,
Niche marketing for cars with very specific features is what BMW is all about just like Starbucks is all about making such niche drinks like a double-tall decaf hazelnut latte. While Toyota Lexus is more catered to large volume mass produced vehicles which aren't as specialized--sort of like McDonalds coffee.
Over the past ten years...we have had to make a series of decisions that, in retrospect, have led to the watering down of the Starbucks experience,” he admitted. He cited the switch from hand-pulled espresso machines to the automatic variety, which helped to speed up service but diminished the spectacle of coffee-making. The result, he conceded, was that some customers found Starbucks coffee shops sterile places that no longer reflected a passion for coffee.
The BMW experience will be dilluted with hybrid and various other energy saving technologies. Without a traditional ICE and a manual stick BMW will lose something just like the newest Starbucks outlets are losing the character of their older outlets.
SOURCE of Bolded Words: The Economist
I think that the honesty of the service department is the detemining factor. I have a good "gritty" independent BMW tech but I also use my local dealer(and I also perform some minor maintenance and repairs myself). The quality of service and the price-value ratio actually improved when the dealer moved from to their fancier digs. Case in point: Less than a month ago they only charged me $207 to change the ATF and the transfer case fluid on my wife's X3.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I agree with you 100%.
I know for a fact that there are less-than-honest independent mechanics, and also less-than-honest dealer service departments. At the same time, there are honest independents, and honest dealership service departments.
You hit the nail right on the head.
I had suggested, in fun, earlier in the week, that I was glad to purchase my BMW from a fairly nice facility. This is true. I will use them for some service because the 135i comes with four years of service included! If I keep the car after that, I can choose accordingly.
I am fortunate that one of the best independent European mechanic shops is literally in the same commercial complex where my business is located.
Good post roadburner!
TagMan
I have to agree on that one. It's certainly an impressive building, but why would I go there just to see some boring old RX350 when I see a few of them a week? Fill it full of Maseratis, Astons, Ferraris, or Lambos on the other hand, I'm there.
Amen, brother. The shop I deal with is clean enough, but just a series of bays with people working in them who can actually diagnose & repair what's broken -- not every related system that "might" be causing what's wrong (or could plausibly be at fault, when it goes to court because the car's still not right).
The Governor is BRAGGING that Arizona will collect over $120 Additional Millions from their residents this year in fines. The stated reason for this travesty is to raise add'l revenue for the state! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Can anyone from the great state of Arizona give us more info on this?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Honestly. The only ultra-luxury/sports car companies there are out there right now are European:
Aston Martin
Bentley
Bugatti
Caterham
Ferrari
Koenigsegg
Lamborghini
Lotus
Maserati
McLaren
Mercedes-Benz
Morgan
Porsche
Rolls-Royce
TVR
...
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
It seems as if the people there are from another planet. They have an insatiable appetite for arguing, and it can never be about one car. You can't say "I like the Lexus LS460" or "That Audi R8 looks beautiful" without having somebody else reply with "THE MERCEDES S550 IS FOR RICH PEOPLE, LEXUS IS FOR POOR PEOPLE" or "The Aston Martin V8 Vantage is SOOOOO much better you fool!"
I used to think it was just the Euro fanboys bashing Lexus, but now I realize it's both "sides." It seems as if the only car they agree upon is the Aston Martin DB9; all others simply must be argued over. And it's always the same flimsy "arguments," over, and over, and over, and over. The BMW/Merc/Audi fans continually use prestige as the single most important factor. Lexus fans always throw the reliability card. It gets old. Fast. I am amazed that they haven't all left.
When the site started out, it was promising. I don't remember how I found it, but the people on there were interesting to chat with and didn't argue much. Hmm, sounds familiar, doesn't it? But it has regressed to an automotive swamp and the new generation of posters are complete psychos.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
If you can't make the picture fit between the left and right sidebars, please just post a link.
Thanks.
Really? Try this on for size...
I believe that the AutoSpies website had great potential, and it has deteriorated into a pathetic swamp. Its initial success was more than its originator (the fat man, agent 001) was prepared for. He did not have a proper long-term vision for the site. Nor did he know how to delegate the site's operation, and as a result he let it slip away.
The sites problems are a reflection of the fat man himslef, who is obviously swayed by sponsorship, and he acts like a thirteen-year old when he gets anywhere near the attractive young women that work the auto shows. For a while there, he was featuring a "girl of the month", instead of a "car of the month", if you get my meaning... totally out of focus for the well-being and health of the website.
The latest ranting and hatchet-job with regards to the Hyundai Genesis received a lot of crticism, even on his own website. It represents a good example of his lack of integrity.
For a very unattractive out-of-shape individual, he sure has a very strange obsession with criticizing Sandra Burkhart over the years. It's weird. He should look in the mirror and take a good hard look at himself, his distorted views, and what he's done to his website, and the kind of example he has set that has ultimately been part of the site's problem.
In my opinion, the website needs to be sold and revamped. The potential is still there to build it up and clean it up, although it would take a lot of work considering how much it has deteriorated.
I've also noticed that most of the information posted there is essentially from other websites that have already done the homework and research.
Bottom line... AutoSpies is a dumping ground for other websites' information, lacking in concrete, objective and professional original material, with obvious exception of the photo galleries that are essentially too huge and unedited to be of any value. It takes no talent to take hundreds of pictures and dump them onto the site. It is also a swamp containing the distorted opinions of the fat man and the terrible bickering among its viewers, without any regard or conditions for civil dialogue.
...........................................................
Now... with regards to louiswei's comparison of an Audi A8 with a Lincoln... all I can say is I do not see it at all. Those two cars have very little similarity in design, IMO. They take an entirely different approach to exterior and interior layout, and they have a different path of evolution. They are different animals altogether. The Audi marque, whether one likes it or not, is well-recognized for the interiors in its vehicles... they are considered to be some of the very best in design, quality and workmanship. Comparing them to the Lincoln? C'mon louiswei... you know better than that! What's the motivation behind this? The comparison makes no sense whatsoever.
TagMan
I understand your concern. A good example is the latest addition of the 135i, which brings BMW closer to its roots than anything it has produced in a long time. While at this point in time, it is indeed a traditional ICE (w/ added twin-turbo) and comes with a manual 6-speed (auto tranny optional), what is the reason that an alternative powertrain might not accomplish a similar performance standard in the future?
I think it is a long reach to compare the Starbucks scenario with BMW's long-range plans for alternative powertrains. The dilution may be short-term, if at all. In fact, I see them as a potential for even greater performance and efficiency... which is a goal that BMW is certainly more capable of reaching than some of the other manufacturers, IMO.
I am totally convinced that over time, we will see tremendous progress in powertrain technology that will provide us with powerful (and efficient) alternatives that will retain the standard of driving experience we have all come to appreciate... in fact, possibly even improve upon the experience with smoother and more powerful torque curves from these forthcoming powertrains.
TagMan
Hmmm... are we hearing from the next owner of AutoSpies? LOL
Aston Martin
Bentley
Bugatti
Caterham
Ferrari
Koenigsegg
Lamborghini
Lotus
Maserati
McLaren
Mercedes-Benz
Morgan
Porsche
Rolls-Royce
TVR
Mercedes does not belong on the list. Otherwise, I agree with you.
TagMan
Agreed. Both gas and diesel concepts. Pioneering.
Regards,
Jose
AUDI seems to be getting better and better. Its has become a serious rival to BMW and MERC
THat may very will be so. BMW wanted to avoid hybrids because they felt that internal combustion engines are the best type of engines for their type of performance cars.
Ofcourse as we all know they raised the white flag and there will be new hybrid BMW models.
It's too early for me to criticise these hybrids since none exist yet. But I strongly believe they will end up being a compromise and their existence will not be due to performance maximization but mainly due to government green regulations.
Bentley
Bugatti
Caterham
Ferrari
Koenigsegg
Lamborghini
Lotus
Maserati
McLaren
Mercedes-Benz
Morgan
Porsche
Rolls-Royce
TVR
These cars above with the exception of Porsches and a few Benzes and maybe a Lotus though I am not too sure about that are all nothing more than unreliable badly made pieces of crap. The only way you can live with these vehicles is if you are willing to spend more on car maintenance than on a money grubbing blackmailing mistress.
I would rather pick a more mainstream alternative like a Audi R8 or a BMW M3 And yes the technology on such Audis and BMWs may be even more impressive than what can be found in these so called exotics. Also I hate the idea of being dependent on a money grubbing snob dealer for regular services whose philosophy is if "you gotta ask the price for our services than you really shouldn't be owning our highly speial and exclusive cars"
That's a little strong...
Do you consider a Rolex a piece of unreliable crap compared to a Timex because the Timex is cheaper, more reliable, has more utility in more situations and is easier and cheaper to fix?
If you take the cost out, essentially saying that money is no object, would you really pass on an Aston Martin DBS?
But when I think of a Timex I dont think of an Audi R8. I would personally prefer a Audi R8 over a Aston Martin DBS because I can get an exotic drive without the highly exotic services.
But I disagree with including the M3, RS4/6 in the same context as the exotics. They are Euro-style muscle cars.
OK I rest my case with the Audi R8.
Though I think the new BMW CS will be quite comparable to some exotic sedans.
And who knows about the Lexus LF-A? Exotic Performance with Corolla reliability and Lexus services sounds quite enticing to me.
What annoys me most about exotics is that it is the customer that ends up subsidizing an auto marque that lacks the scale to minimize costs. A marque like Audi can minimize costs with their scale and provide an exotic car without the exotic prices.
I know the term subsidizing is misused here since there are affluent customers who wants cars that are exotic not only in terms of theirperformance but also in terms of their rarity.
Remember: the old wives tale that you don't want to own a 7 Series/S Class or most any Audi out of warranty still applies.
I came away with the sure knowledge that given a choice in the price range I would not be driving a Lamborghini or Ferrari. At least the models that I saw, were all so far over the top with their design language that they were only attractive in the way that a siliconized, botoxed Vegas 'escort' is attractive.
The Rolls were just sort of silly.
Didn't see a single Maserati.
The Lotus leaves me cold.
Next to them all the Astons looked absolutely superb.
I will say, I didn't notice anyone feeling the squeeze in Vegas. At least not the financial one.
In that case you must have been surrounded by quite a few sucessful blackjack players. The unsucessful ones probably stayed far away from those exotic car dealerships.
TagMan