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Comments
Regards,
OW
Regards,
Jose
I have rotated these tires front to back on the same side 3 times at 5K intervals. The Continentals are good all-weather tires and I like them very much.
Glad to help. This 3 series is very satisfying. I am eager to try the 1'er in comparison. The 335 is almost the perfect car for me. It really doesn't get much better. Some say to try the CTS but I am having a hard time with getting past it visually.
Regards,
OW
Well... time to go meditate!
TM
With all credit due the CTS, I can understand that. The "edgy wedgy" look can be difficult to warm up to.
TM
Regards,
OW
From what I've read, the NY Auto Show should be a good one this year... you lucky dog.
Hopefully, you can take lots of pics!! (hint, hint.)
TM
Regards,
OW
Yet ANOTHER pont of view?
Keep in mind that these vehicles represent "value" and not any kind of performance data or driving experience... based on data aggregated from auto manufacturers, the U.S. government, and third-party data resources... IntelliChoice.com analyzes all aspects of the costs to own and operate a vehicle over time to determine the winners, including sticker price, depreciation/retained value, maintenance and repair costs, fuel costs, insurance and state fees.
Overall Winners...
Under $24,000 - Toyota Prius
Over $24,000 - Chevrolet Corvette Convertible
Crossover/SUV Under $28,000 - Honda Pilot
Crossover/SUV Over $28,000 - Lexus RX 350
Truck Under $27,000 - Toyota Tacoma Regular Cab 2WD
Truck Over $27,000 - Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Extended Cab 4WD
Van Under $25,000 - Toyota Sienna
Van Over $25,000 - Chevrolet Express 1500
Winners by category...
Cars
Subcompact - MINI Cooper
Compact under $17,000 - Honda Civic Sedan
Compact over $17,000 - Honda Civic Hybrid
Midsize under $21,000 - Toyota Prius
Midsize over $21,000 - Toyota Prius
Large - Toyota Avalon
Near Luxury - Lexus ES 350
Luxury - Infiniti - M35
Luxury Convertible - Audi A4 Convertible
Convertible - MINI Cooper Convertible
Small Wagon - Scion xB
Midsize/Large Wagon - Subaru Outback Wagon
Base Sport - Volkswagen R32
Sport - Chevrolet Corvette Convertible
Sport Sedan/Wagon under $38,000 - Mazda MAZDASPEED3
Sport Sedan/Wagon over $38,000 - Lexus GS
SUVs
Compact Utility/Crossover - Ford Escape Hybrid
Intermediate Utility - Toyota 4Runner
Luxury Utility - Lexus GX
Utility - Toyota Land Cruiser
Crossovers
Midsize Crossover - Honda Pilot
Luxury Crossover - Lexus RX 350
Trucks
Compact Pickup 2WD - Toyota Tacoma Cab 2WD
Compact Pickup 4WD - Toyota Tacoma Cab 4WD
Full-Size Pickup 1/2 Ton 2WD - Toyota Tundra Regular Cab 2WD
Full-Size Pickup 1/2 Ton 4WD - Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Extended Cab 4WD
Full-Size Pickup 3/4 Ton 2WD - Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Extended Cab 2WD
Full-Size Pickup 3/4 Ton 4WD - Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Extended Cab 4WD
Full-Size Pickup One Ton 2WD - Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Crew Cab 2WD
Full-Size Pickup One Ton 4WD - Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Crew Cab 4WD
Vans
Minivan - Toyota Sienna
Full-Size Van - Chevrolet Express 1500
Cargo Van - Chevrolet Uplander
Comments? Surprises?
WOW... Toyota and GM account for more than half the total list of winners!!
From my perspective, I am glad to see the Chevrolet Corvette gets so many kudos from so many different sources. With that much concensus, the 'Vette is a pretty darn good car and possibly a good value as well.
TagMan
I think everyone should put in their pic order to you in advance. Hope you've got one of those good cameras everyone's been posting about lately.
TM
Good to hear! Though if rear seating is an issue for you than the 135i should never have been a choice of yours in the first place. A BMW M3 sedan is my kind of car. It's the best right now when compared to the current offerings form MB ,Audi or Lexus(IS-f)
All this pooh poohing about the BMW M here has some merit in terms of the M5 and M6. But the new M3 is a gem IMHO ofcourse. Also the pricing when compared to other offering makes the M3 a no-brainer choice.
Though I must say my BMW 335i provides more bang for the buck than any single car on this planet earth IMHO ofcourse.
Jaguar XJ8 25%
Mercedes-Benz CL-Class 22%
Kia Rio 22%
Audi A8 21%
Lexus LS 21%
Suzuki Verona 21%
Volvo C70 20%
Hyundai Accent 20%
Audi A4 20%
Audi A6 20%
I can still recall not too long ago that a few forum members here used some bogus statistics to indicate that Lexus LS resale values depreciates minimally when compared to the BMW 7 and the MB S Class. I remember trying to point out how bogus their LS statistics were but unfortunaely with little success in terms of persuading them.
Unlike the Lexus LS at least nobody here boasted about how well Audi A8s and Jaguar XJ8 depreciate with time.
Well look above and see the reality of LS resale values. It aint pretty! :sick:
link title
Portential for a new Q45 sucessor: Likely
link title
Sport Sedan/Wagon over $38,000 - Lexus GS
Uh....
Base Sport - Volkswagen R32
Huh?
Portential for a new Q45 sucessor: Likely
I think that eventually Infiniti will use the PM platform and the GT-R drivetrain, but it will take many more years. An M50x with the 7-speed auto is a car that I would actually buy. That basically solves the one issue I have with the M45x, its 5-speed.
I am curious to see what they do with a replacement for the Q. Something that drives like the Maser QP with Infiniti reliability would be great.
There is an obvious reason for that: The introduction of the LS460.
With the all new LS in town there is no doubt that all the old LS will take a big hit on depreciation.
True. These figure reflect three year old vehicles and 3 years ago there was the prior generation S Class that did not depreciate as much as an LS.
A 21 percent annual depreciation is not small beer. I dont mean to pick a bone here with you but not too long ago in the HELC forum there were many nonsensical claims that the Lexus LS was the best luxury car in the industry in terms of minimal depreciation.
Personally if I buy a car I couldn't care less about depreication since I dont sell my cars that often.
I hate to have to agree with this list, as I have the Audi a8....One car that is still in the family is the rx300 ...That smaller suv has held it`s value more than any car I have ever paid for....I guess the original vw at a few thousand dollars was better, and a fun car to boot.. Lexus use to be a good value until this last model.. I have come to the conclusion any eighty thousand and above car is going to cost you alot...Tony
That just shows the difference between the LS460 and LS430 is like night and day but not so much for the S.
:shades:
I think you said the the new car will be your first BMW. You may not know that you can track your order through the 6 stage process until delivery at the BMWUSA web site. Sign onto to owners circle and type in your Production number, it will take your car through the cycle until delivery.
It won't make the time go faster but it may make you feel like you're close to the process.
and, to a lesser extent, Canadians — for one message: A diesel high-performance car is not a rolling oxymoron.
Look for Audi to push that message hard in the coming year.
AUDI DIESELS
The latest on the 135i Cabrio is now "scheduled for or in production".
I check it daily... can't help myself.
TM
True.
I personally don't want to see any Genesis vehicles on this board. I just won't be able to consider that a "luxury" brand until they really show innovation, in engineering and otherwise.
I've read way too many incredible reviews to turn this car down. I'm hooked on it pretty bad!!
Alright, so it's settled, is it not?
What's the point of second-guessing yourself if you know this car will work at the end of the day?
Who cares about the rear seats? (Thanks) You have a Jaguar XJ and an Acura MDX already!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
:confuse:
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
The Jag? Don't think I'll be keeping it much longer... not sure yet.
TM
IMO, it's the exact opposite. LS460 is an evolution of the classic LS formula. Yes, it has some new tech, but other than that, do you really see a massive difference? Similarly restrained design, similarly cluttered interior, similar plushness, similar pricing... other than the tech, the only thing new is the engine, which isn't saying much because the S-Class made the same switch.
On the other hand, the new S takes everything about the old S and turns it up four notches. Way better handling, way better comfort, way better ride quality, way better styling, way better luxury, way better reliability, etc...
To me, all it says is that the Mercedes-Benz S-Class has better depreciation than the Lexus LS.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
When cars are THAT close in depreciation, other factors such as the vehicle's condition, options, and odometer reading become more significant in distinguishing final values.
TM
Are you suggesting the S Class is in the 20% depreciation category?
That's news to me? Did I miss something. :confuse:
I don't think a couple of percentage points one way or another matters that much.
Are you suggesting that it is significantly under the 20% range? I honestly would be very surprised if it was.
TM
Ours did pretty well considering its age and mileage. Surprisingly, the '01 GS430 holds its value incredibly well. I don't quite get that. The design has aged quite badly, and yet they still bring in nearly $20K, thousands more than the equivalent A6 4.2, 540i, or E430 which go for the low to mid teens now.
The upcoming diesel hybrids are very interesting. Unlike the pointless GS450h and LS600h which do nothing more than exempt you from congestion charging, it seems like diesel electrics can offer huge mpg gains over gasoline. I hope they appear sooner rather than later.
It's not that surprising that Toyota still can not build enough Prius cars fast enough to meet the demand.
The market is just sooooo ripe for some very cool, good-looking fuel-efficient vehicles. It's insane from a business perspective that there aren't any out there to take advantage of the historic opportunity. When they finally arrive, I guess we'll have to wait our turn to get one.
TM
On the other hand, if you will look at EDMUND"S true cost to own section you will see that over a 5 year period the S class depreciates about 48% and the LS 430 about 46%. I checked this on 06 model years so I would not be accused of using the new style LS 460. Depreciation is broken out separately in their calcs. For the 07 model year it is even more in favor of the LS.
Even though the LS wins in this comparison, Tagman is right, they are so close it is a rather pointless comparison. Just keeping it fair and balanced.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Why not? MB cars have among the best estimated resale figures in the industry according to Kelley's Blue Book. Similarily why shouldn't NADA's results indicate that MB S Class depreciation levels are favorable when compared to other cars?
Maybe you know more than I do but what I do know for certainty is that based on the study MB S class vehicles have lower depreciation rates than the LS. Otherwise by presuming that they have "close to equivalent" depreciation rates merely because the LS and the S Class are both in the same segment of the market is a bit of a stretch IMO.
After being around them all, I still say the "long in the tooth" A8 is the best car in the class.
Reliability has been stellar for my clients. And it's just so darn elegant
They share a similar fate, when it comes to depreciation.
TM
I tried myself to get depreciation rates for various models at the NADA site and was unable to. Pardon my lack of retrieval skills but I would greatly appreciate it if you can link where you got those MB S Class figures from.
Call me nuts but I just love those depreciation figures so much that I just cant get enough of them. :shades:
Here's two different brands with the opposite problems. Infitinits such as the G37 are great cars with not the same cachet as other luxury marques. While a MB C Class is a not so great car with a lot of cachet.
Here's some blistering paragraphs from a WSJ C Class Review
If it were a Chrysler, I might be raving about the C-Class, but as it sits, it's just a car for people who can't afford the larger E-Class -- never mind the S-Class. Unlike the sporty BMW 3-Series, the C-Class has no intrinsic appeal beyond being the cheapest way to park a Mercedes in your driveway. While "inexpensive" would be a fine selling point for this $31,975 car, an empirical comparison shows that the Japanese -- particularly Infiniti, with its G35 -- offer more for the money. So we're back to my buddy who believes that buying this Mercedes would say something. It does: He's not a very savvy shopper and bought into the Mercedes myth. Because, honestly, that's really what the scions of Stuttgart are selling here.
While over the years the brand's good name was built on the twin pillars of engineering and exclusivity, neither applies much anymore. It's no secret that Mercedes's reputation for quality has taken a nose dive this decade. Just as legions of car buyers have sworn off the domestics forever because of shoddy quality, plenty of potential Mercedes owners are shopping elsewhere.
But even more harmful to the brand image is that Mercedes has diluted its unique claim as a builder of high-end luxury cars by going after nearly every product segment in the U.S. market. Mercedes dealers now sell everything from a full-size sport-utility vehicle, the GL-Class, to a poorly disguised minivan, the R-Class. A compact SUV, the GLK-Class, is coming. For 2008, Mercedes is more of a full-line brand than Ford. While none of this makes the C-Class a bad car, I'm sorry to have to tell my friend that it casts this low-end Benz as more of a toupee than any sort of automotive Rogaine
link title
OUCH!
Here;s the unfair Infiniti criticism from a Romanian Perspective
"Infinity is one of the luxury divisions of the 4X4 industry, a direct competitor of Lexus. In an unusual manner for the markets abroad, I am sure that Infiniti in Romania will be a direct competitor for the top versions of Toyota and Volkswagen, because this is how our market works, the segments existing abroad are just theory in Romania", Milea added, mentioning that Infinity will not steal Audi, BMW or Mercedes clients, because they are too devoted to their brands.
link title
The folks above dont even know how to write Infiniti correctly :sick:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'm mobile at the moment. Go to NADA site and click on the new "cost of ownership" section. It shows depreciation annually in actual dollars. Your financial expertise is more than adequate to derive any percentages or other info from there.
If you need more, I'll be back here later this afternoon.
Take it easy,
TM
But unfortunaely the specific figures you had pointed out from NADA says a lot of nada, nada, nada, nada.
$43,575 Resale Value of 2005 MB S Class 5.0L
$38,475 Resale Value for 2005 Lexus LS430
Do you notice the contradiction above? The LS based on looking at those figures above has a higher resale value than the S Class.
Why is that so?
Apparently no one can just look at those very undetailed figures provided by the "Cost of Ownership section" of NADA and make any conclusion without knowing the following:
1) How the resale car was equipped to know the relevant MSRP.
2) What was the real market price of the resale car? Most certainly there is little resemblance to MSRP.
The fact of the matter is NADA has the best data to make such computations with the above considerations and certainly not you and I. While NADA had determined that the LS was among the worst depreciators in the auto indurstry ,the MB S Class maybe another story altogether.(unless you and I have to prove more details)
Once again, you misinterpreted the NADA findings in your original post. The NADA site is very easy to understand, and, as you said, they are the final authority. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Am I missing something?
TM
Wow, amazing how anyone can predict how a 08 car will depreictae with clear certainty in the next five years.
Where do you buy their crystal ball from?
Based on those NADA figures you had provided the LS has far less depreciation than the S Class. But that is not the case in terms of their list of top 10 deprciatiors.
Why the contradiction? Apparently we dont know the details of how they were equipped . Depreciation should be based on actual cost not on MSRP since hardly anyone buys a car at MSRP. If you read that NADA uses fictional MSRP figures then fine they have the right to do so.
At any rate, as Tagman said, it really doesn't matter much. With those cars the depreciation factor is seldom taken into consideration by the buyer.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460