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  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Darn, for some reason I can't open your pics. I think I must be missing a plug-in or something. :sick:

    I will keep trying!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Go to his CarSpace page and see if you can view his album from there. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    My goodness, revenues must really be soft at Automobile magazine... they completely sold themselves out for a price. I'm not sure I've seen that before.

    TM
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    We drove 200 miles on a winding road yesterday and today. Going up to 1500 feet and down. To break in the engine, we tried to rev no further than 2250 revs, not stay fixed on a particular revs regime, and not hit heavily the pedal as to make over gas. I put the aut tranny in its three ways (the manual mostly to rev down if needed). Here there are the first conclusions.

    At the beginning, I found the car astonishing slow and lazy. Then I realized that I was too shy to awake the beast. When fueling her to her proper mood, she would go really ahead of my limits in the road.

    Even if her ride was aplomb. The car followed the steering wheel as glued to the road. Because of this, I would feel very precisely a swaying every time one of the front wheels went through a shallow road depression. One gets quickly used to this, but the first feelings were of surprise. I had felt the same with a former Citroen Xantia with assisted anti-roll bar.

    I am trying to get used to the aut tranny. By now, I felt it far too slow in the normal mode (again, without over gas) as compared with what I was used changing gears by hand. Like Hemi said, it is like butter. LG qualified it as superb. It is very true, IMO. It is like being ride by the lord's chauffeur, everything is softness and quietness but somewhat quicker. But be careful if you indulges in over gassing! Then the car jumps ahead like a tigress. In the sporty mode the tranny is still butter though most pulling. Changing gears by hand, the car can be quicker than me, at least by now :blush: :shades: .

    In brief, a world to explore. Even my wife likes it. I'll keep posting.

    Regards,
    Jose
    (TM, be prepared for the lighter 1-Series!)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    TM, be prepared for the lighter 1-Series!

    I'm prepared as I can be. ;)

    Sounds like you had a nice drive. Every really good engine I've ever owned gets so much better after a few thousand miles... especially this latest Porsche engine.

    So, if you liked it today, it will get even better!

    I have an approach to breaking in engines that has always worked for me. Of course, varying the RPMs as you mentioned is important. And, of course, never, never abuse a new engine. Also be sure to warm it up before pushing it too hard.

    But, I always keep these two things in mind...

    First, if I treat a new engine too much like a baby, it will remain a baby... so don't!!

    And second, I always condition a new engine into shape by making it exercise now and then, and then over time I gradually increase its workout.

    BTW, the 1-Series coupe isn't all that much lighter than the 3-Series, but in convertible form, the difference is significant enough, due to the 1-Series only utilizing a softtop instead of a folding hardtop. That, powered by the 300 hp twin-turbo petrol engine, and I would expect 0-6- times to be about 1/10th - 2/10th seconds slower than the 4.7 seconds achieved by C&D when testing the coupe. We should find out sometime later in the Spring.

    So far, it is all going well for you!!... Excellent! Not all that many things are as exciting as a new car, IMO. Certainly a few of life's special moments, but a new car is almost always a very cool experience. Thanks for keeping us all posted. :)

    TM
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    Yes, last time i checked, NADA doesn't buy cars!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I am trying to get used to the aut tranny. By now, I felt it far too slow in the normal mode (again, without over gas) as compared with what I was used changing gears by hand. Like Hemi said, it is like butter. LG qualified it as superb. It is very true, IMO. It is like being ride by the lord's chauffeur, everything is softness and quietness but somewhat quicker. But be careful if you indulges in over gassing! Then the car jumps ahead like a tigress. In the sporty mode the tranny is still butter though most pulling. Changing gears by hand, the car can be quicker than me, at least by now

    Keep in mind that the BMW autos are "learning automatics". It needs some time to adapt to your driving style. The engine will get much better with a few km on it, and it should be the same for the autobox. Enjoy!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I would not be surprised if Automobile Mag is owned by Cereberus Capital. ;)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Congratulations Jose!
    By the way, I like the GBR license fragment, remind of your college days? :)
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Unfortunately, though, mine don't look quite as nice as yours.

    A combination of constant usage, heavy snowfall this winter (highest in over 20 years?), and a stupid snow plow man have put a strain on the pavers.

    I'm hoping to have them looking pretty again in a couple months, if the snow ever stops... :cry:

    It would certainly make for a nice X5/S4 photo shoot.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Keep in mind that the BMW autos are "learning automatics".

    Speaking of those, I have a story.

    Audi also uses "learning automatics." My friend and I both had 2000 Audi A6 2.7T's, with his being traded in in 2004 and mine, 2005. Well, over the duration of his ownership, he quite literally destroyed the transmission. He drove the car so terribly (terribly slow) that it was forever stuck in "grandma mode." One day, when he noticed that the car wasn't accelerating like it used to, he brought it to the Audi dealership. They weren't too shy to say that he "ruined" the car. It "learned" how he drove, and since he drove slowly, the 2.7T was destined to be as slow as (or slower than) a pedestrian 2.8 quattro.

    What a waste of 2.7T!

    Of course, now he has a Lexus LS460, which is stuck in "grandma mode" from the onset. After having an A8L in between, he finds the Lexus quite boring.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    They weren't too shy to say that he "ruined" the car. It "learned" how he drove, and since he drove slowly, the 2.7T was destined to be as slow as (or slower than) a pedestrian 2.8 quattro.

    What a waste of 2.7T!


    Indeed. Why pay for the power if you're never going to use it? Fortunately the learning can be reset, which is usually done when they are traded in, so the second hand buyer isn't stuck with a slug.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Fortunately the learning can be reset

    All this discussion just begs the question, what other cars have this "learning feature", and what is the reset procedure?

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    All this discussion just begs the question, what other cars have this "learning feature", and what is the reset procedure?

    I'm not sure about the Japanese, but the Germans have been using this technology for years. I'm not sure exactly what's involved in the process, I just remember reading that part of a car becoming CPO is to have its learning software reset. I'm sure your BMW dealer could tell you more.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Manual tranny included in this, or strictly automatic?

    TM
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    I will keep trying!!

    Dan, I saw you track in my CarSpace site. I hope you could see the pics there!

    Regards,
    Jose
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Hi, David. GBR came to me just by the usual way. I did not choose it. But I am happy with those letters. They bring me back very warm Oxford memories ;) .

    Regards,
    Jose
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    First, if I treat a new engine too much like a baby, it will remain a baby... so don't!!

    Very true. I'll try not to spoil the child.

    And second, I always condition a new engine into shape by making it exercise now and then, and then over time I gradually increase its workout.

    In three days time I have to fly to Innsbruck, Austria. I have to spend there 4 days. Back to Spain, I will drove 500 miles on highway and mountain road. A good exercise for both, the car and myself, I hope.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    LG and Esf, the point you are discussing about German auto trannies is most interesting to me. I will keep in mind such a learning ability along the tranny breaking in period and afterwards. ;)

    What worries me to some extent :blush: is that, in our case, and though my wife has her own car for commuting, both of us equally drive out of town. (Well, not equally; may be 1 and 2 out of 3 are the more accurate ratios for my wife and me, respectively.) Thus, the tranny will made a compromise between both driving styles. I am quicker but my wife is more nervous while driving. Even though my stile is to be the primed one at the end, none of us will by entirely happy with the car! :( :shades:

    Regards,
    Jose
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Manual tranny included in this, or strictly automatic?
    :confuse:

    tag, come on now. The manual gets 'reset' everytime there is a new right and left foot using the pedals. I must be missing what you're saying.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Nothing bad to say, Jose. The BMW Steptronic is one of the best money can buy.

    I like being able to move the lever from "D" (Drive) (Is this the same in Spain?) to the left to activate the M/S (manual/sport) program. When left there, the sport program is activated and one gets very sharp, aggressive shifts. However, mpg takes a bit of a hit. My wife doesn't like it. :blush:

    When in M/S, you can press the lever forward or backward, the manual mode is activated and the Steptronic shifts gears. You have a choice of M1 to M6. To get back to the automatic mode, move the lever to the right to position "D". Have fun!

    I put new Contis on the 545i several days ago. The car is performing much smoother now, which probably means the original Contis weren't properly balanced on delivery of the vehicle.

    Enjoy the new 335d. Looks like a handsome devil from your photos! ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    If the "learning" s only about shift points for the auto tranny, then my concern would not apply. If the vehicle's "learning" includes any throttle response, then my question has merit. My Porsche, which is a manual, has a "Sport" mode setting which alters the throttle response. It's a dramatic difference. So... I am curious simply whether or not the BMW includes any throttle response in it's learning curve, which might apply to a manually shifted car.

    Hope that is clearer, and maybe now you understand better why I asked.

    :)

    TM
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    That makes much more sense!

    Actually it just highlights my lack of experience, I have never heard of any automation in throttle response. It makes sense when you have Porsche-level torque and horsepower that there are times that you would want to mute the response so that you're not always running into the back of the car in front in bad traffic.
  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    I am curious simply whether or not the BMW includes any throttle response in it's learning curve, which might apply to a manually shifted car.

    As it has been explained to me by my SA... this "learning" only refers to AT. Thank God, huh? :shades:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I guess all I have to do is buy the cheapest VW Golf that I can find and just drive it like a bat out of hell to assure myself of always having a fast car!! :)

    You spin a nice yarn but I do not believe that driving an A6 in a sedate manner will ruin it. Especially, as some have said, if the learning can be reset. I am sure some learning takes place but it is probably within very narrow parameters. Tag, I don't think you have to be too concerned.

    Just my 2 cents as an automotive expert! :shades:

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    The RFT on the 3 series doesn't bother me too much, as if I had one they would be replaced as soon as possible.. but not having a dipstick is simply irritating. They are forcing their "techno-computerization" down your throat. I am also concerned there are not water temp. gauges or oil pressure gauges. There is an oil temp. gauge in the twin-turbos, but what are the rest of us to do?

    I know more and more of the exotics, high-end Euro performance vehicles and the like are going to electronics but I keep thinking "what if a computer module fails and your water pump then goes out somewhere down the line". I guess you would know it when your engine burns up.

    All these new electronics and computerization is good if it serves a purpose that was not being handled effectively, or if it provides something that was not being addressed. I don't know... I am just more of a manual kind of guy that appreciates manual trannies and gauges. But hey, like you said, it wasn't enough to keep me from buying the car. :mad: :confuse: :P :)
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    That's one good looking 335d, if it has 335i sport's 18" (or is it 19"?) rims then it'll be just about perfect.

    Looks like coupe is definitely the way to go with the 3-series.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Perhaps they can add bluetooth to the ECU and it can send the on board diagnostics to you cell phone or Nav system! Coming soon to a HELC near you!

    Regards,
    OW
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I agree the coupe is the looker, but the four-door is very attractive in the 3-Series, IMO.

    TM
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agreed.

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi Jose

    What does bmw say abou the break in?? I would think a diesel would like a bit harder breakin to seat it`s rings, as it turns so much slower....The diesels I was familiar with were such big monsters, that nothing hurt them and they just ran all day long with no stopping..Tremendous lugging power.....I look forward to more reports:) Further I read somewhere ` The English know how to rule, and the Spanish know how to live`...It`s true....Tony
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Hi Tony

    BMW encourages to 'shake' the engine up and down with joy but not above 2250 revs (of 4500 total) through the first 3000 miles. (Pretty much akin to what TM said for a gas engine.) But from my experience with the former diesel, it is true that the engine will not fully break in at least until getting 30,000 miles.

    The English know how to rule, and the Spanish know how to live
    It may be true, who knows! :shades:

    Regards,
    Jose
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... Surprisingly, the '01 GS430 holds its value incredibly well. I don't quite get that. ...

    It's because they only made, like, 12 of 'em. How often do you see a GS4XX? It seems they really ramped up production of the V8 GSs of late. I see many more of those than I ever did of the first gen ones.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419

    It's because they only made, like, 12 of 'em. How often do you see a GS4XX? It seems they really ramped up production of the V8 GSs of late. I see many more of those than I ever did of the first gen ones.


    I don't think its just a rarity thing. SC400s are much rarer than GS430s, and yet they have depreciated quite badly. I'm not sure what it is.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Think about it this way: you were happy driving your 5 Series Touring, were you not? Well, as long as you're using the same characteristics while driving the 335d, it will adapt the same way. You may have just learned about this ability now, but the cars have "known" how to do it for years.

    Enjoy your beautiful coupe!

    ...Also, I have a question for Tag or LG (whoever knows more about DSG): does DSG have the "learning" feature? I'm curious. It doesn't seem very different from the day I bought it, but the again, I'm not exactly a transmission interpreter.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    image

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Oh…, well, my 5 Series was manual. As I posted, I am a rocky regarding auto trannies. :blush:

    Nice pic that you have posted!

    Regards,
    Jose
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Nice pic that you have posted!

    Indeed, the M3, which is now available as a four-door sedan is stunning, IMO.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    From what I can tell, we all need a little more concrete information about the "learning" transmission . BMW calls it ATM, for Adaptive Transmission Management. The best interpretation I am able to make from information obtained at BMW's Knowledge Base, is that the transmission is simply adapting to an individuals driving style as well as the road conditions for the sole purpose of attempting to keep the number of unnecessary gear shifts to a minimum.

    I don't see this as anything that anyone should be concerned with. Ultimately, it just means that the tranny will respond to your "typical" driving style and the road conditions a little more efficiently. That certainly doesn't prevent the transmission from responding like it should under any other driving conditions that might exist or change. In other words, the process remains a dynamic one, and the ATM does not seem to compromise that as I understand it.

    Adaptive Transmission Management

    In the automatic mode, Adaptive Transmission Management (ATM) chooses the right gear through a self-learning process and considers a range of different factors. To recognise your personal style of driving, ATM consistently registers the position and use of the accelerator pedal. It compares wheel spin and torque and adjusts gearshift to normal, winter and hill-climb/start-off conditions. ATM even takes into consideration the current driving situation and thus avoids any unnecessary gearshifts, for example in stop-and-go traffic, when taking bends or on mountainous roads.


    Hope that helps everyone. :)

    TM
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Hope that helps everyone.

    Thanks, it has helped me.

    Let me post at full extent (with my own emphasis) what I have read at
    link title
    (BMW Technology Guide)

    Adaptive Transmission Management (ATM).

    Whether driving in city traffic or coming out of a curve at speed: Adaptive Transmission Management (ATM) recognises your individual driving style and automatically selects the right gear at the right moment, eliminating unnecessary shifts.

    ATM integrates data input from the accelerator pedal and the engine management system. By analysing the timing and manner that the driver applies the accelerator, ATM autonomously learns the driver's style - noting, for example, whether the engine brake is often used, or if a gear is downshifted to accelerate out of curves. This pattern is continuously monitored, so that ATM always adapts to the style of the current driver.
    In addition to the driver's individual style, ATM analyses the prevailing driving conditions: driving in winter or in mountainous areas, ATM shifts gears differently to driving in normal conditions. Stop-and-go traffic or winding roads are recognised. This results in fewer and more precise gear shifts, letting you fully focus on the dynamic performance of your BMW.


    There is as well some posts on the subject at
    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104412

    I cannot say oppinion on the tips posted there… I have just learned that the posts exist.

    So, in agreement with what BMW site says I can expect some changes in the aut tranny after my wife's temporary driving (and vice versa). But I can be confident as well this adaptation to my wife style would change with my driving.

    This explains why I found the 335d tranny to be very lazy after the first few miles. I had drove the car very carefully. When I felt confident and pushed the car more playfully, the situation changed but after a while. Understood.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    That's a great shot. Is this the first M-3 sedan? It is a great concept taking advantage of the extra space I assume you get. Interesting....now I have to choose between a 335, 135 and M-3?

    Please help!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Thanks, TM. So, hypothetically and responding to the poster amout "Grandna Mode", if you change driving styles, (read: generations), does the ATM relearn the patterns of a different driver?

    I would consider it a negative to 'lock-in' a particular pattern considering an owner switch.

    Regards,
    OW
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    YES, it is constantly adapting to the ever-changing conditions... those conditions being primarily dictated by the road conditions, traffic conditions, and the driver's style.

    Since these things are not static events, IOW, they are dynamic events (they change) , the ATM is always applying itself. So, therefore, real-life and real-time variables (YOU instead of Grandma behind the wheel would be one of the variables) are adapted to.

    Deeper into explaining how this can work is a process known as "fuzzy logic", which in this case applies an algorithm to the monitored (or sensed) variables.

    Bottom line... mild intuitive adjustments by the ATM are helpful, but will fortunately still let you drive the way you want to, very shortly after putting your foot into it!

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The M3 is a terrific car, but BMW has a dilemma now... the 335i is soooooo good that the M3 is not as big a difference.. Specifically the measureable performance of the M3 isn't miles ahead of the 335i or 135i. That said, if you are OK with the thirstier V8 and want an even faster car, the M3 could be your ticket. Unfortunately, you would give up some spirited driving fun for sheer speed, as the M3 makes the business of going fast seem easy... almost too easy (and less exciting) according to initial reviews.

    If you want the best of both worlds, I would suggest the 135i. It is fast and spirited. The reviews are fairly unanamous about its fantastic driving dynamics... more so than the M3 so far. Some reported understeer that can be tweaked, if you are so inclined... but a near-perfect blend of characteristics that will put a giant smile on your face. If there is enough room in the 135i, I guarantee you, the 135i's price and performance make it the obvious choice. If you need a larger vehicle, then you must decide between which of the 3-Series you would prefer.

    The 135i is an amazing car... and I want to make it very clear to you that if you are OK with its dimensions, it is the choice to make. Read all the reviews as I have done and you will understand that this is one of those rare and special opportunities that you may not get often in your lifetime. And, it won't break the bank to get one!

    TM
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Excellent feedback. I was worried that if Grandma picked up my car after the lease expired she would be set to 'spirited' and have some problems...unless she's from Pasadena!

    Regards,
    OW
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    LOL... ;)
    TM
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    bmw seems to me the famous topic in this forum

    I guess every1 is a bmw fan here or most of us. :confuse:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I would say everyone is a Bimmer fan here in some degree or another.

    Just not everyone is a BMW "fanboy"...

    ;)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... Specifically the measureable performance of the M3 isn't miles ahead of the 335i or 135i. ...

    The same could be said of the M5 and 550i Sport.

    Hmm... I seem to have forgotten where I was gonna go with that point mid-post, so I'll stop here.:confuse: :(
    (edit)
    Oh! I think I remember. I believe I was gonna say that the M division is losing its edge (and value) over the regular cars. Pretty soon they'll be just like Chevy's SS division; just a badge/trim package... :sick:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The same could be said of the M5 and 550i Sport.

    Hmm... I seem to have forgotten where I was gonna go with that point mid-post, so I'll stop here.


    Funny... that sure happens to me a lot lately... sign of age... Ha!! Ha!

    Well... I'm not attempting to judge the merits of that difference other than to indicate that some of the performance difference between the 335i and the M3 isn't very large. Certainly the vehicles themselves have some significant differences. For some, ANY performance difference is worthwhile, and for others, a small performance difference is a total waste of the extra premium charged for all the component and equipment upgrades (if you want to call them upgrades)... two very opposite views. Everyone has to decide that for themselves. Many reviewers seem to suggest that the twin-turbo six is so potent that it renders the M less significant than in previous generations. That is probably true.

    If you want to include the M5 for the same reason then that's up to you.

    If you had a different point to make and you remember it, please post it... LOL! ;)

    edit: OK, now I see you've remembered... In that case... I do think that there is much more going on than badge and trim. We're talking a totally different engine in the M3 than in the 335i, and the brakes and other components are not the same. That's what drives up the price tag, yet in this case it doesn't deliver a ton of performance increase. To me, I'm not so sure it's worth it. In fact, as I posted earlier, I think the spirited performance of the 135i is clearly the best choice, if the interior room is adequate.

    Perhaps in the future, the only remaining obvious difference would be badge and trim, especially since the performance difference has diminished... unless they address that, of course.

    On a seperate note, the Mercedes 550 designations seem so good, that the AMG variants (when compared to the 550s) aren't as significant either, IMO.

    TM
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