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Audi vs. BMW?
Absurd. There is no "battle" between the two. There is no need to take "sides".
It appears that a single poster was under the false impression that Audi was being bashed here on this forum... when, in fact, the members of this forum have been overall very complimentary to Audi.
Wake me up when this war is over.
One disgruntled poster is not a war. There is no war.
TM
I respectfully agree in fictionally disagreing
The Star Wars, Episode :surprise:
Regards,
Jose
Was over at the Audi dealership today, getting the little light and grill finally fixed...Just a report on the service...I was told it would be quick, and just wait, what was what I expected to do...They had a loaner all ready although I didn`t ask for one, and had it ready at lunch time---washed and shined up, which was nice. Let me know when the R8 is supposed to come in , as I too would like to see it....Tony
BMW has a great level of performance with rear drive cars and I prefer to shift them myself - they are wonderful to drive. They have great suspension dynamics, great engines and are well built. I feel that they have some compromises - interior styling and quality of materials, I-Drive, the awd cars are good but not great, and the exterior styling is a bit too edgy for me.
Audi has Quattro which works better than any other awd system. They have great interiors, a vault like feel, and good integration of technology and performance. They have struggled with handling balance in some cars- the new A4 and A5 are much improved, they have never had the best performing standard engines, and the styling is too conservative for some folks.
I believe both companies have their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think you can say one is really better than the other, they appeal to different wants and desires. I find myself a fan or "fan boy" of great cars in general, both of these qualify. To me right now, both of these companies have more appeal to me than M-B, Lexus, or Jaguar, but I hope that changes, we as consumers win if each of these companies keep stepping up the level of competition.
Indeed, I like products from both companies (well, more Audis than BMWs). I think BMW is making a big mistake though trying to do what M-B was doing a few years ago. (R-class anyone?) A relentless new product assault usually means a drop in quality.
2008 G35x w/ Premium and Navigation
2009 A4 Premium Plus
Cost is not a factor (I realize these are "low end" luxury), but would love to hear some opinions. I have a list of pros and cons, but the list of cons is small for both. If anyone cares to share their insight, it would be appreciated! I may just get over this hump of indecision. Thanks!
http://www.leftlanenews.com/lexus-hs250h.html
Based on the above my conclusion now is definite. I will simply get a hybrid Toyota and forget the Lexus.
Why?
I love my BMWs without idrive and I have no desire whatsoever for a Lexus version of idrive. LED Lights---I think I can live without those. Luxury ameneties unlike Toyota? I love my cars spartan and simple without that ostentatious bling feeling. I guess that is why I like spartan BMWs.
I test drove an 09 A4 2.0 in early october. The car is a beauty inside and out. The drive is nice, and firm ride. I wouldn't give up my A6 for it though, only due to the fact that it felt smaller. I read someone commenting on the moonroof making a wind noise, I didn't open it so I wouldn't know. I have never driven an Infiniti in my life so I couldn't give you an opinion on one, but a friend of mine has a 2004 G35x, she likes it, but IMO the car is hidious, along with the 2008. I would buy an A4 over the G35x because the exterior and interior style is far superior, and the drive in the A4 is class leading. Good luck, if the Audi dealer doesnt give you a price lower then 600 above invoice be ready to walk out, they always call you back. Have Fun.
My 98 BMW 323i was so problem-free I could not believe it when I read CR and noticed many of those black dots for unreliability.
My 07 BMW 335i is so problematical that I am shocked when I see positive reliability results in CR and JD Powers and rosy European surveys (3 series voted second to none in terms of reliability)
I dont think BMWs in general are unreliable and they are certainly more reliable than Audis I mean here in Toronto I see so many old BMWs but hardly any old Audis. That Edmunds forum member named MarkCincinatti owned I think up to 20 Audis and he claims that he would never trust an Audi beyond warranty since they would be too expensive to repair and maintain.
Despite my positive view of BMW reliability, my particular car is a completeLEMON.
Within two months this is what happened:
Twice I had to go to the dealer for the electrical rear window motor .
My ventilation fan had to be replaced
My moon roof motor had to be replaced
The plates where my door locks are got rusty and I had them replaced
Seven different moulding pieces within the interior of my car fell apart
My trunk malfunctioned and could not close
:lemon:
I look at my 83 MB 300D and I dont think there were so many problems during over a quarter of a century while driving hundreds of thousands of miles. Usually I get attached to my cars and I keep them for about a decade and sometimes even many decades. Well that wont be the case with my BMW335i---I will get rid of it as soon as the warranty expires.
Well at least my wife's BMW 530xi Touring is more reliable than my car.
The most trouble-free car I've ever owned (so far) is our '05 Jaguar XJ Vanden Plas. But, it's not driven a whole lot, so it isn't completely fair to give it too many kudos... your incredible MB diesel sedan deserves major kudos.
My 135i needed a new fuel pump recently, which I posted.
Worst, most unreliable vehicle I ever owned... It was a 1988 Ford full-size Bronco. Yes, it was white like O.J. Simpson's. Everything went wrong eventually. Horrible vehicle, total POS... but I liked it back then.
TM
Definitely this will be a short-term relationship. Call it unsentimental love.
I can understand why you still liked your Bronco.
Unfortunately I will have to ditch it in two years when the warranty expires (no extended warranties since I dont get frequent visit rewards points at BMW except a coffee that is not my idea of real coffee).
I keep getting the impression, if you buy bmw, you really need a very big wallet.
Secondly, get rid of it as soon as the warranty is over
bmws are like a super model, its a dream to drive, the most exciting, but just won't last :sick:
It just so happens I got the short end of the stick in terms of the specific car I got.
How was your service?
In my case I was told my car would be ready by 5:00PM and if any delays arose my service rep would call me. At 4:30PM I received no call but I checked just in case. Turned out my car did not even go into the shop and would not be available at that day. I hung up and phoned the sales manager to report how inept this disservice rep was.
Within 10 minutes a rental Pontiac Montana was in front of my door.
Next day I get a call from that very same BMW Disservice Rep and was told that my windows were just perfect and there was no problem whatsoever. I call back his service manager and I informed him that it malfunctioned many times this past month and I knew perfectly well that a thorough inspection was not done.
Within one hour I got a call back from the service manager and was told that the motor of my electrical window was not functioning due to a short circuit and it will be fixed within 24 hours.
I dont mind driving a Pontiac Montana for 3 days but I do mind the kind of idiots BMW hires in their services department. :mad:
I recently said I may buy another BMW. I am definitely reconsidering that notion.
I'm driving the 911 today, and I already miss the 135i. Yes, it really is that good.
TM
In my case I've tried three different dealerships with little satisfaction.
Just after visiting my dealership the sliding cover of my moon roof is rattling. I drown out the noise with my audio system but I am afraid if I continue this I will go deaf.
Within 24 hours of my serivce I may have to make another appointment :sick:
Hell I may sell my car before the warranty expires. :lemon:
TM
The Koreans have gotten their allocation of the new 2009 Hyundai Genesis Coupes and it seems like one customer felt his Genesis Coupe could push the limits a little more than he thought possible. Needless to say that he learned the hard way by crashing into the concrete base of a metal light pole.
As you can see from the images, the 2.0T Genesis Coupe you see here was the only car involved in the accident leading us to believe that the driver lost control and the Brembo brakes of the Genesis weren’t strong enough to slow him down.
What’s more interesting is that the airbags failed to deploy. You can see that the front driver side received the most damage. Wonder what Hyundai has to say about this.
You could change your user name to "crashking"... you do such a good job of posting major crash photos... LOL. just kidding. I am glad to see you have been enjoying the egmcartech website that I informed you about.
Seriously, though, no deployment of air bags is a serious malfunction. I hope Hyundai is ready for a major lawsuit... but then again, the driver is probably already dead... so the spouse or closest relative will likely file the lawsuit.
Tragic.
TM
Sorry to hear that. Our BMW shop is ok, not great. The X3 has been in three times to try and fix the terrible transmission programming, all to no avail. This is my wife's first BMW, and it will be her last. My experience with the Audi shop on the other hand has been very good. They are very quick - call for an appointment in the morning and everything is done by mid-afternoon, they are very thorough and they always call when the car is ready.
She's looking forward to dumping the X3 for a new Q5.
I've always loved BMWs and I would tolerate the two situations below:
Lousy service for a reliable car
Great services for an unreiliable car
But having an unreliable car combined with lousy services has turned me away from their brand.
I have no intention upon buying an Audi or an Infiniti but I may keep my eyes open to the onslaught of new hybrid Lexus vehicles. If they turn out to be rebadged Toyotas then I will just get a humble hybrid Toyota instead.
Trade ins in my case dont work out since I find selling cars privately far more advantageous in terms of what I can realize price-wise.
Private sale prices are almost always better than trade-in prices.
But, your vehicle's service history is normally disclosed during your private sale, and depending upon the severity of its service record, the price and motivation of the buyer will be impacted.
And, if you take the dishonorable route, and fail to disclose the vehicle's service history, the buyer will ultimately find out, and might respond in an "unkind" way. :surprise:
That was why I was considering that your car, with its nasty service record, might just be easier to trade in. Either way, good luck with it.
On the other matter of Toyota vs. Lexus... I totally agree that if the Lexus variant isn't worth it, the Toyota would be a fine choice. However, don't forget that the Lexus service experience has a reputation of treating its customers like royalty, something you haven't experienced at your local BMW dealership. I guess I've been luckier here. The facility and folks are nice...
TM
Just one of the advantages for car sellers living in Canada
Here are pictures of my two recent nightmares. I always try to escape from these two places but I always end up going back. It's like the movie "Groundhog Day"--almost everyday is the same.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
As bad as that crash looks, I seriously doubt it was fatal. You have to remember that cars are made these days to practically disintegrate in even a minor impact. What is disturbing is how distorted the steering wheel is! :surprise: The driver clearly saw what was about to happen and held the steering wheel with a death grip! The Pucker Factor was off the charts! :P It's probably good that the bags didn't deploy, otherwise he'd probably have a couple of broken arms (if he didn't sustain some anyway.)
Also, airbags aren't activated when cars are delivered from some of the manufacturers. That is part of the initial dealer prep before they're put out on the lots (or at the port if it's an import/export.) They may have forgotten to activate the bags. Or it could've been a test vehicle. Manufacturers continue to test vehicles for a few years even after they're in production. That's part of the reason why we get manufacturer recalls; that and a pattern of repairs at the dealerships.
BTW, the Parkview BMW facility has a similar design as the BMW dealership I use here. Also, the Mercedes Benz dealership here has that semi-circular approach to the front. It's a modest facility, but nice.
As I recall, there are some awesome Lexus dealerships out there that Lou had posted pics of last year.
TM
This is the only forum where there is activity. I have my eyes on a 2008 535i in the CPO program. Has 28K miles on it, which seems like a lot of driving for a one year old car. Don't know why the person turned it in. Sales said they had the carfax for me. I want to talk to the owner, to find out if he liked the car, and why did he turn it in. Any chance of that happening? Also, what' the deal with gas mileage. I'm mean "REAL gas mileage, never mind what BMW says. When I hear Turbo, I think Gas guzzler. I want a good reliable car, I usually keep them a long time. I have my 1996 328i for 12 years. I can't think of driving a Lexus RX, just doesn't do it for me, yet I hear it's a great car.
What do you think guys, give me some advice, I'm not a professional driver. I just love the look of this 535i, solid black, all the pkgs.......no nav. Also iDrive has me scared.
Gardis in CT
gardis72@gmail.com
iDrive is a little frustrating, but I actually like it overall.
If you don't need NAV, you're OK, but if you do need it, maybe you should wait for one that has it factory installed.
Definately look at the carfax ASAP. Talking to the previous owner might not do you any good, as you don't know what he/she will say, but I guess it wouldn't hurt. Maybe you can find out why there are so many miles in one year.
Good luck! If it's not this one, there are others out there! Be patient!
TM
Too much California stop-n-go works itself into the average, so I can't escape the 17.2. If I just averaged the "normal" driving, it would be better. Also, I admit that I hit the pedal hard when I get the chance. I need that acceleration, or I might as well use mass transit.
The only joy I'm expecting I'll get out of a future hybrid would be watching the fancy grahics display show me that I'm saving lots of gas... somehow I'm hoping it will be a rewarding experience. I kind of enjoyed it when I rented a Prius down in Hollywood earlier this year. I almost got in an accident, however, because my eyes were too often glued to the display monitor, which puts on quite a show.
I just checked the 135i data, and yes, 17.2 is still the average... sigh.
TM
Tagman, I live by this philosophy. In my business I run across people who only look out for themselves. It's amazing how many phone calls I've had from these same people after falling into an unfortunate circumstance. I ALWAYS try to help them, regardless of the past. First of all, I hope someone would do the same thing for me. Secondly, everyone wants to be your friend when you are on the top; but almost no one wants to know you when you are down and out. Help someone when they need it and if they ever make it back to the top they will remember who helped them along the way. And if they don't? It didn't hurt me, only made me feel good about helping someone.
You can do better.
If you want a CPO, go to BMWNA's website, click on "CPO", and then "inventory". You can probably find many more attractive CPO 2007 and 2008 535i's in your area with more reasonable mileage. I would definitely take a pass on that vehicle! That's already 2 years of average driving on a 2008. :surprise:
Whatever CPO you decide on, don't forget to bring some Lysol with you to spray on the seats!
link title
New York Times
I
That particular "lesson of life" that I posted was first made when I was in my twenties. I'm glad to learn that you share that perspective.
Consider the idiot who steps on everyone as he rises to his success, treating them with utter disrespect... and then 30 years later, when something causes him to fall from the position of success he once enjoyed, he ends up in a situation of depending upon the assistance of those he originally stepped on. :surprise: Uh oh.
TM
How the heck have Chrysler, GM and Ford stayed in business so long?
And GM wants a bailout? :surprise: American Motors sure didn't get bailed out, and the world didn't come to an end. And I sure don't miss them... but... I do miss the wacky ads, like..."What's a matador?" and the ad with the Sandwich King's 4-foot submarine sandwich built across the back seat of his Pacer, all to prove how wide the car was. ... Crazy, huh?... LOL. YouTube - AMC Pacer Ad
TM
1974 AMC Matador X - road test
I can only imagine Jeremy Clarkson behind the wheel, and his comments. :surprise:
One day maybe we will be remembering GM ads.
TM
Generally cars that are driven like that for a year and then dumped are either lemons, or the owner just buys something new every year. If you're seriously interested in this one, definitely check for repeated unscheduled services in the history.
When designed properly and mated to the right car, turbos can provide an excellent balance between performance and efficiency. Audi's 2.0T and BMW's 35i engines are both great examples. When designed improperly or mated to the wrong car, turbos can be inefficient gas guzzlers with no real benefit over a normally aspirated engine - see Acura RDX and Mazda CX-7.
The Lexus RX isn't really a competitor to a car like the 5. If long term reliability is one of your chief concerns, I would suggest seriously considering a new 2009 Infiniti M35. For '09 the car gets the VQ35HR from last year's G producing 303hp, and a new 7-speed automatic with a much taller final drive to take care of the old car's droning at highway speeds. The M's NAV system is hard drive based and significantly easier to deal with than iDrive. The new A6 3.0T is also worth looking at.
My local BMW dealer had poor service too, they had to take the hard blow of being outsold by Audi across town to get it (somewhat) right now. Still not happening, better but far below Audi constantly rising service standards. For comparison among premium brands here, top customer services are:
1) Lexus
2) Audi/Porsche/Volvo/Saab/MB (all under the same dealer)
3) Acura
4) Infiniti
5) Jaguar/Land Rover (again, same dealer)
6) Chrysler (surprised? same here)
7) BMW
8) Cadillac/Hummer
9) Lincoln
Source from local newspaper report (add Hyundai ABOVE Lincoln if you wish to add them to comparison - Genesis is supposed to be a premium right?).
Local Audi dealer here got the most amazing service I can think of. The moment you enter the lot a salesperson greets you, remember how salesman sticks to you like scalp? If you say "We're just looking", the salesperson always says "Sure. Take your time, let me know on desk #(insert number) if you need anything" and leave. The second you step inside you'll be offered a drink (latte, tea, juice or water) and snacks (donuts, cookies or apples). They disclose every official rebates and incentives, almost no secrets there. Another addition is if you buy a car new or used, you'll get free carwash every other week under one condition: it must be the brand the dealer sells (Audi-Porsche-Saab-Volvo-MB). So if you buy a used Lexus there you wont get the free carwash, but a used Saab is fine. I remember visiting w/ a friend who needed a control module replaced in his A4. The car had to stay overnight and they had no loaners left, so the GM lend his personal A6 for the day. How Lexus managed to top that is still a mistery to me, maybe because the cars are more reliable. With the bar set that high I wonder how my local BMW will ever catch up.
TM, I bet the driver's alive. The door's trashed alright, but the rest of the cabin is intact. Whether he/she's concious is the real mistery.... Thats too bad. I personally think the Genesis coupe is the first good looking car to come out of Korea, especially the rear quarters. There's too much Lexus IS up front, but I can accept it.
First thing you should note is the harsh sounding engine and (sometimes) tranny. No its not falling apart, its just the unwelcomed noise which leads to a feel of unrefinement. The seats are great, the driver's somewhat softer than the passengers and offers great support, but I do recommend you to retry them if you're a large person. The dash seems complicated with the million buttons, but seriously its easy to figure out. Also the gauge pod moves along with the steering column which is very convenient for anyone's height imo. The brakes still tend to be a bit grabby, a minor but can be annoying flaw. The last thing you may want to consider is that the interior feels richer than previous gen's, but still behind competitors, better than Cadillac but behind even Acura, should such thing matters to you. Last, I'm not sure if this is a factor but the 09 A4 is a first MY, meaning you will potentially face myriads of bugs and glitches in the future. Goodluck.
I spent one day visiting dealerships and get a taste of the XJ, 750i, and A8. Tag, how come you never mentioned that the XJ's leather is smoother than even the Audi's? The quality of the leather and wood is amazing it makes BMW feels outclassed immediately. My only real issue inside is the gauges light a cheap feeling green, whereas others are lit in white (though I must admit its easy on the eyes). Also the rear seat is so upright, why? Well, then again who cares, I dont sit there anyway :P .
I also went to try 2006 Lexus LS (yeah people, I didnt know what got into me) and I was surprised to find the cream interior the best looking, quietest, best quality compared to others. Perfect combination of light cream/parchment with grey dashtop and light colored wood. The rest of the car is crap.
Honestly the Audi got most right, but along with the 7er I felt no need for the extra space, so I've decided to nix all large cars except XJ from my list. I'm so leaning towards the XJ now, too bad the dealer doesnt have a single XJ that interest me. The must have list includes:
1) Cream or parchment interior, black at least
2) 19" wheels
3) easy on the chrome (I'll probably replace that grille and mirror caps as starters)
There's one, but the leather seats already shown signs of wear (that shiny worn leather thing), and looks like it wont go away no matter what I do. Oh well, I'll wait and see.
Regards,
OW
Meanwhile, from the latest issue of Autoweek:
"BMW is reevaluating its entire future model lineup as part of a broader cost-cutting initiative."
Translation: Due to BMW's plunge of third-quarter sales by 62.9%, you will never see the drop-dead gorgeous 8-Series 4 door coupe. "It does not meet the internal requirements for rates of return"- BMW Chairman Norbert Reithhofer.
That's it; my life is over.
Part of the outcome = smaller, more affordable cars from BMW... that would just be horrible, heh?
TM
Yes indeed. Value of the century. And you will appreciate the amazing gas mileage.
TM
Tony
That 535i has my heart beating.
Veritas
Regards,
Jose