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But, which manufacturers will effectively make this transition, and make it fast enough and green enough to make a difference?
TM
HINT: The two car companies that you and I are interested in terms of buying a fuel efficient car. Both Toyota and Honda. Both sell green products that many North Americans want. Diesels are fine for highway cruisers or Europeans like Jose who have the benefit of subsidized diesel fuel. But those two situations do not fit my situation at all.
Also many high paid lawyers and accountants will lose a lot of business if taxes are so simplified that even a average person will be able to file their tax returns.
I drove to the farm to check on the huge earth project that has wrapped up for this year, and saw a BMW 3 on the drive back....Man it is a beautiful car.....There was also a black Porsche---not a 911---with a blond haired lady driving it and that combination was also outstanding....I also drove by several miles of auto dealers, and the inventory was impressive.......I suspect when we Americans get out confidence back there will be a huge catch up on postponed purchases of cars...Just think if GM produces a couple of hundred thousand cars a month, to me that is a mammoth amount, and if that displacement in our economy is removed, it is hard to fathom the hardship that could take place....It would be scarry..Tony
Tony, I am a firm believer in free-markets. The federal government is making a huge mistake in interfering by providing bail out money. They should do with the auto companies what they did with Lehman Brothers.
Instead of dumping money at our auto manufacturers, who have demonstrated for many years that they cannot compete successfully, the government should double the monthly unemployment benefit and provide it for an unlimited amount of time, in anticipation of the layoffs to come from Detroit, if market forces are allowed to proceed naturally. Survival of the fittest should be the guiding rule.
The federal government should show firm resolve and say "NO" to bail outs. This is not their business, nor is it that of the American taxpayer. They are just making things worse. Market forces will prevail, if allowed.
IF BO stands up to the auto industry and says "NO", he will go down in history as one of the greatest and most courageous American presidents. I'm not holding my breath.
Regards,
OW
If only that were true, it may not exist in its current guise: Lawyers, Accountants, Financial Planners, The IRS! (and probably a few more professions) benefit handsomely...
And a quick note regarding raising taxes: One of our esteemed posters here noted that BO will only be raising the tax rate 3% on the top earners. 3% is no big deal, and they would not mind paying a bit more to help out those (me!) below that magical (and I believe) mythical floor. Here's the trick: You always could pay more! The amount paid each year is the minimum owed, I'm sure that the IRS would not refuse an additional amount submitted with your tax return with a note from the benefactor asking to distribute this largess to those more in need. Which I'm sure that they would: To fund the next self approved raise for our Congressman!
It's Cynical Sunday!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Gee, who could that esteemed poster be? LOL.
I hate taxes, so let's be clear about that. I do believe they serve a purpose, however, and I recently posted that if I had my way, we'd have a flat tax. I see that Dewey also likes the idea of a flat tax.
Taxes are a necessity, but our Congress wastes our taxpayer dollars on ridiculous programs and pet projects. Even the military, which needs to be strong, is given massive amounts of money that is terribly misguided and wasteful.
Again, I detest taxes, but here's where I'm coming from... I hate a sick economy even more!! My original point was that I'd be willing to pay a little more in taxes if it meant that our economy would get the boost it really needs. But no matter how much money we have given the Congress during these last eight years, they have all too easily wrecklessly spent it, and even more, until the point of a massive deficit beyond description.
So, quite frankly, yes, I'd rather pay a little more in taxes on an income that is healthy due to a good economy, than pay lower taxes on a lower income due to a troubled economy.
I was making tons more money under Clinton than I've made under George Bush, and I admit I voted for George Bush. But now, I'd gladly go back to the healthier economic picture and the tax rates that were in effect when Clinton was President.
Anyway, I'm just hopeful that BO can help to revitalize the Bush-era economy... 'cause it sucks... :sick:
TM
I don't disagree with you. I don't hate taxes, I hate how convoluted our tax code has become. Rather than simplify, it just keeps bloating with new laws, regulations, "temporary" cuts/increases... And, as oft mentioned, what is done with our tax $. I guess I just fear MUCH higher taxes from the lower middle on up to "be neighborly" to those below. Even those who paid no taxes (for various reasons, of course. Some would probably be thrilled to pay taxes!) will be getting more "spread the wealth" help from our government, as I interpret the best of intentioned President Elect.
I'm hoping that BO is a fab POTUS. Certainly more Clinton-like in the positive way that affects our economy, people and world. I had hoped that "The Decider" would be a fab POTUS (whom I did not vote for, twice), but alas...
OK, I'm being selfish. I'd rather give more of my $ to the Gov to redistribute as they see fit as opposed to directing it myself to Make a Wish, Habitat, The Jimmy Fund, MSPCA or my local Jag/Porsche/Audi dealer!
Go POTUS Elect! Tax and spend!
Again, it's Cynical Sunday!
And Lehman Bros, rather than going Chapter, couldn't Fuld have just loaned 'em back some of the half billion he so richly deserved for, well, running a morally and financially bankrupt company?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Most Audis out there have VW engines--- you know the 2.0T you find in VW Golfs and Jettas. In fact if I am not mistaken most Audi A4s globally are front wheel drive cars. THe A3 and the Q7 are rebadged VW Golfs and Touraregs. Platform sharing and engine sharing with VW naturally will produce better margins than a stand alone premium company like BMW or MB. I am sure Lexus margins are higher than BMWs because they share a lot of engines and platforms from Toyota
But my question is so what? Audi A3, A4 and A6 are the key cars that represents the Audi brand and I must say each of these Audis are inferior to the BMW 1 series, 3 series and 5 series in almost everyway. You can call the GT-r a ricemobile but if I was a sport obsessed driver (which I am not) then I'd definitely pick the car that is superior in terms of performance and handling specs and that would certainly not be an Audi R8. Personally In this particular case I prefer rice over sauerkraut.
Oh yes ofcourse there are very impressive S and RS models that are selling at premium prices. But those models are as representative of Audi as a Corvette is representative of Chevrolet. Yes there are certain RS models that can beat a M series and yes the S4 may beat a BMW 335i but unfortunately the Audi engineers are not able to design RS or S models that can compete with BMW M series or 335i models in terms of price. Engineering excellence also involves cost constraints since a car that can compete with more expensive models is certainly more praiseworthy than a car that can compete with cheaper models.
Strange how on this site if one does not pay homage to BMW, one gets immediately attacked. No wonder this site lacks variety in opinion. Sounds like today's media.
Finally, the strength of a marquee is also determined by its business intellect. In general, BMW like Audi, MB and Lexus operate in a very conservative market. The vast majority of luxury buyers are over 40 and many are still over 60. Likely, this demographic admires the traditional solid Bauhaus style of BMW, as is the general German design theme in the premium sector, and they were likely not impressed by BMW's or Bangle's controverisal design turn. However, BMW was likely committed to the new styling and now has found itself having to offer substantial incentives to meet its target volumes. BMW is reducing its supply of units by 60,000 to the US alone. In Germany, once highly profitable BMW dealers are actually going bankrupt, trying to match the discounts offered by BMW's wholly owned stores. Audi has never moved in this direction. Yes, some of this might be due to the ecomonic downturn, but on the flip side the economic downturn has shown the potential business error by BMW for the sake of volume based luxury. So, it's good to be the biggest premium brand I guess.
I strongly and respectfully disagree. This site does not lack variety in opinion at all. Goodness, there are many different views about the various Japanese vehicles, especially Toytota/Lexus, and Honda. There is a tremendous variety of opinions about the Korean vehicles, particularly the Genesis by Hyundai. There are many various opinions regarding the German marques, and then there's always Jaguar, with many opinions.
Now that said, there certainly isn't anything nothing wrong with loving BMW, but even BMW has gotten lots of criticism... especially about the way the company seems to be spreading itself out a bit too far with too many models. The 7-Series has received a lot of both positive and negative criticism. The X6 has been hammered on this site. BMW as a company has been criticized, as have their vehicle financing methods. Their exterior body styles and interiors have been intensely scrutinzed.
Now, moving on to Audi... Audi has received more kudos this last year than almost any of the marques. Hemi bought himself an R8, and esf has owned a number of Audi vehicles. I used to have major arguments with the Doc, who does not post here any more, about how Audi was in the beginning of a major ascention in the US market, and I do believe my prediction is proving to be true. Lexusguy has put his money where his mouth is and bought himself an Audi, and another Audi (IIRC, S5) will be delivered to yet another poster in the near future.
In addition there has been talk of the tremendous value associated with some of the previously owned Audi vehicles.
Gosh, pay attention... Audi is a highly respected marque around here, that's for sure. And, there is plenty of variety of opinion.
edit:
...Audi and VW using the same 2.0T, though Audi massages it and changes it to fit their needs...
TM
That sounds like a great idea, but there's just one big hole in it; what happens to all the retiree pensions? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "survival of the fitest," and believe that if they can't compete, let 'em die. But that would be really bad for the retirees. It's a bit of a conundrum concerning the American auto industry and what's best for the economy/taxpayers. :sick:
The federal government will be responsible under the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation for the pension payouts.
At least with the free-market solution, resulting in GM going under, the problem is finite.
Once the government gets involved by giving the US auto makers handouts, without changing the structure of the companies, they will be dumping our tax money their way forever!!! This will be be far more expensive in the long run.
The US auto makers have tried for the last 35 years to become competitive with Toyota and Honda. They have failed.
The only way a government bail out can work regarding GM would be if the government destroys the power of the UAW union and in return for money, forces GM to dissolve its current stock shares ( which this morning are already predicted to go to "zero"), issue new equity shares with the federal government as majority share holder-so, we the tax payers, can benefit if and when the reorganization saves GM from the brink of death.
I pray BO just says "NO" to GM and if he doesn't, and he offers them money, he does so on condition that there will be a complete re-structuring of the company with the government in charge and kisses the UAW goons goodbye.
Yes, but have they really tried? Seriously. :sick: A couple decades ago, the Japanese used to try to undercut the U.S. mfgs on price (and it showed in their quality.) The U.S. answered by building cars to price instead of quality. Over the years, however, the Japanese have significantly increased prices (over $30K for a top-of-the-line ACCORD!! Who'da thunk it!?) along with a commensurate increase in quality. The U.S. has only increased price (and size) w/ no significant increase in quality. (Note I'm saying quality, not reliability; two wholly different animals.) In my opinion, the U.S. auto industry has done very little to try to compete with the Japanese. They are still building to price which, in itself, is self-defeating. The Japanese have already proved that people will pay for quality. How dumb do you have to be to not see that??? :lemon: The Civic, in its class, is comparably a good bit more expensive than a Cobalt; yet I see way more Civics than Cobalts on the road. Why is that? Get a clue, GM/Ford/Chrysler!! :mad:
Honestly, I'd much like to hear that, myself. I'm not a "fanboy" of any sort, but to my mind and eyes, Audis are rebodied/rebadged VWs. :surprise: They use VW engines and drivetrains. The bodies look basically like VWs after a nice spa treatment. (And face it, the Phaeton is a mildly disguised clone of the A8.) In all honesty and seriousness, I'd love to hear of the difference between Golf/A3, Passat/A6, Jetta/A4, etc. And relocating a few mounting bolts from spot A to spot B does not a different chassis make. That'd be like saying the G35/G37 coupes have nothing to do with the 350Z because the wheelbase has been stretched. It's still the same chassis, engine, and drivetrain which amounts to a rebody/rebadge job.
Historically the Passat, A4 and A6 shared platforms. But today the B8 platform of Audi is exclusively an Audi platform.
The Touareg and Q7 share a platform.
If I am not mistaken the upcoming Audi A1 and Q5 will share VW platforms.
The fact that Audi stopped sharing the A4 platform with a VW is proof that VW realizes the advanatages of having a distinct platform. VW realizes that if they want to be taken seriously they need to distance themselves more from VW.
Audi's history consists of such cars as a Fox. Cars that are best off being forgotten. But times are changing and now Audi has a few models that do compete with BMW.
GM has been for years now, making cars that Americans won't buy and giving away the store with ridiculously rich labor contracts with the UAW. The current expensive waste of money project with the ridiculous Volt that goes 40 miles before one has to plug it in, just continues the former. GM has learned nothing.
It's time to pull the plug on GM as we know it.
If the government wishes to step in, it must fire the entire management team, pull the plug on the UAW, and restructure the company with government people in charge, declare current outstanding shares null and void and issue new GM shares with the government as the principal shareholder.
Have long been disgusted with GM and the arrogance they displayed in contnually building non-competitive cars, updating the body every few years, sometimes slapping another badge on 'em (yeah, Cimarron) and thinking that they could fool most of the people all of the time. This was one of the most powerful corps. on earth, full of talented engineers and " car people." But, run by bean counters (Roger Smith!), and run into the ground.
It appears that slowly GM is coming around, maybe too late? 'Twould be a shame to fade away now, but the sins of the past have finally apparently placed a stranglehold upon The General. Thanks to the UAW, too... I'm not sure putting "Government people" in charge would be the answer. Maybe some car people/businessmen. Lutz ain't too bad a start?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
What I do know is if the government does nothing except give GM money to stay afloat, they will only be prolonging inevitable bankruptcy-the equivalent of hooking someone brain dead to a respirator.
I do strongly believe the government has no business interfering in competitive free-market business, whether it be banks, automobiles or airlines.
Where is the incentive to excel if big brother will always be there for support?
PS-Reports I have read indicate the Enclave and Arcadia are near the bottom of the heap regarding reliability. GM has had plenty of chances. It's time for a radical government overhaul or dissolution. Their stock price is on its way to zero.
Hey guys here is pt 1 of season 12.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Top-Gear-American-Muscle_198099.htm
Btw, Tagman, when are you going to test the M3? why not also test the IS F and the R8?
I turned the computer back on, with the idea of saying I disagreed with you, but by the time it booted up, I do agree with you philosophically(sp) .. In normal times... I also think the government should just enforce the rules and let the free market take it`s own course.....Of course the rules haven`t been enforced, so the American people stepped up to the plate and changed the show.....I think we are in such a strange situation, that no one really knows of the magnitude, and if they do, they aren`t being direct....I think the government should do something , even if it is just a stop gap measure, to re-organise General Motors.....Maybe GM should take the chapter 13 route, and the labor issues could be handled that way---and then slowly dismantled to a company that could be understood...and managed....I sure hate the thought of millions of additional people dismissed.....Tony
Hey thanks, bmlexus, for the suggestion.
My wife has stopped showing any interest in a new 1-series of her own, so I no longer have the "his & hers" concerns I did earlier in the month. For now, I am quite happy motoring around in the 135i.
I know I've threatened this before, but after coming out of the hospital, and after some serious thinking about my priorities in life, and given the current economic situation, I have decided to sell my 2007 Porsche 911 Carrera S Cab.
Giving up a Porsche 911 isn't a happy experience, but what makes it worse for me is that it is an exclusive car that Porsche built especially for the Porsche display at the International Auto Show. I saw the car at the show, all roped off, on display under the spotlights. I have gone so far as to retain all of the "official international show-car" documentation, and even the display literature that was inserted in the acrylic stand that was situated at the display, which also indicates the vehicle's serial number. So, being an official international "show car" definately adds a bit of a "cool factor" to the vehicle.
Gosh, the original window sticker was over $108,000, and with only 7K miles, I'll be lucky to get $75K, or a reasonable offer. :surprise: It's just pitiful... I mean the car is impeccable, freakin' brand new in every way. What a shame.
A "friend of a friend" is going to completely handle the sale of the vehicle for me, as I have no time or patience for the sales procedure... and I especially refuse to receive phone calls from the general public with questions about the car. My privacy is also very important, and therefore I really appreciate that my friend's friend is going to help me sell the car, even using his name and telephone instead of mine. I realize that could sound a bit unusual, but my situation sort of requires it.
So... no serious test drives any time soon. No R8, no M3, no IS-F. After the Carrera S Cab is sold, I might test those other vehicles out, but I have little to no motivation now.
Hey... wish me luck selling the 911. I suppose I might be overly pessimistic about our economy, but I do believe that it will take many, many, many months to sell my Porsche. Some lucky person is going to get an awesome car at an incredible price. Oh well, that's life...
Thank God, I've got that twin-turbo BMW 135i to keep me happy.
TM
I don't envy BO inheriting this mess. I wish him luck.
By the way, Tony, I'm lovin' the 328i. Tomorrow I take the dude out for some aggressive driving. If I come back with anything less than a stern warning, I will be greatly disappointed. If I do get stopped, I may tell the good officer about my General Motors restructuring plan. Sure hope he's got a half hour.
PS-I put a photo of my Alpine White 328i (in front of the servants' quarters), on my car space page. I was driving over with their monthly wages. I was wearing very dark sunglasses and a phony big nose, since I value my privacy and wish to keep my identity a secret. If they found out who I am, they may stone me to death one day in front of the local Walmart.
Relax Tag, relax.
108K to 75K is considered great perfomance especially when compared to returns you would get from an investment fund ( even among the best ones).
At least you enjoyed the ownership of your Porsche vehicle more than an investment vehicle.
Only problem is you cant claim your Porsche resale loss as a taxable capital loss.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler got drunk on the SUV gravy train in the '90s. They pretty much handed the entire car market to the Japanese. When the music stopped on big body-on-frame SUVs and pickups, they were caught utterly unprepared. They are desperately trying to develop competitive small cars now, about 10 years too late.
Cerberus/Chrysler deserve absolutely no help. Those financial geniuses knew exactly what they were getting in to when they bought Chrysler from Daimler. They had bad products then, they've done nothing, and they have bad products now. No one is buying. Big surprise.
Ford Europe has been successful with their Mondeo and other smaller models (e.g., Fiesta), even though all of them are uninspiring—Fiesta is the only one escaping from blurriness, IMO. Ford Europe designs can be everything from painted bubbles to Lord Vader casks. Ford Europe designs currently have no common defining traces to which proud buyers can identify themselves. Ford left the luxury segment time ago. Ford Sierra Cosworth is the last Ford model I can admiratively remember. Even so, Ford has kept selling cars over here up to now.
Opel is topping the bunch. Mechanically attractive, aesthetically sober and definite, they are looked as a cheaper alternative to the 'other' German cars in Continental Europe. (Vauxhall was very successful in the UK on the other hand, but I cannot say if this so nowadays. I'm paying very short airport to airport visits to the UK in recent years).
Regards,
Jose
Actually, most have nothing to do with VW. Everything that rides on Audi's new "MLP" structure - A4, A5, the next A6, A7, and Q5 - are riding on Audi exclusive architecture. The current A6 and the Passat are on two different platforms. The A8's aluminum space frame is Audi exclusive, the Phaeton is made from steel. The 3.1FSI V6, the new 3.0TFSI supercharged V6, the 4.2FSI V8, and the 5.2FSI V10 are Audi engines.
Compared to Audi, Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus engage in significantly more platform/engine sharing. I'd still take the A4 or the G37 over the "exclusive" C-class.
I knew it all along Howard . The Federal Witness Protection Program would disallow you to reveal your true identity anyways. Almost every man who is in that program is named Howard.
Below is a picture of Howard Smith who is also in the program but is not wearing sunglasses and a phony big nose:
I have accumulated so many top-quality bottles of rum, I have decided to sell some of them. Since I value my privacy, as indicated by my 3 hungry Dobermans and electrified fence with barbed wire on top, I will let my nephew handle the sale.
Your digs are not appreciated. Before you spout out in response to my post, when I mentioned that I need to have another individual handle the sale of my Porsche, you should understand that there are circumstances. Circumstances I really didn't want to go into. There are times when I need to make sure that I maintain a reasonable level of privacy for my family. What you don't know is that my son is involved in the entertainment industry, and it is very important that I keep his life and our family's life as normal as possible.
So, again, before you jump to your sarcasm... perhaps you can be a little more understanding. Is that asking too much?
TM
108K to 75K is considered great perfomance especially when compared to returns you would get from an investment fund ( even among the best ones).
Ha... reasonable perspective, yet sad. But thanks for the ecouragement.
Well, the Porsche dealer is now telling me to expect only $60K - $65K... if I'm lucky enough to sell it at all. I guess things just keep getting worse.
TM
I completely understand. :shades:
BTW, nice pic of the 328i in front of your quarters...
I completely understand. :shades:
TM
Thanks, but the photo I took looks a lot better than the car space version.
I'm in trouble. The wife started driving 11 days ago and today for the first time she asks me, "Can I take the VW out alone?" This with a learner's license. :surprise:
A promise-I will come up with better material!
I honestly hope it all works out well.
TM
Just kidding, one man's normal is another man's excess...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
That's so true. Some live in abundance and others are in need. Many are somewhere in between. Gosh, I hope you aren't suggesting to spread the wealth around.
Y'know, I've learned an important lesson in life... "Always be good to the people you meet on the way up... because you are going to meet them again on the way down."
In other words, financial success isn't necessarily permanent, and what matters much more than the amount of money in an individual's bank account is the amount of integrity in that person's mind and the amount of love in that person's heart.
And, when it comes to raising kids, it's hard to find that sweet spot... where they can have a reasonable level of nice things, yet still develop a good perspective, good character, a work ethic, responsibility, and a genuine concern and respect for others. Personally, I keep my kids in organized sports as much as possible. I honestly believe that is one of the best things parents can do for their kids.
Anyway, enough rambling.
TM
100%.
And, I already weighed in on the question of Audi... which we also agree 100%.
TM
Sure. She is not a natural driver. I hope the VW can take her unsmooth acceleration, occasional jamming on the brakes and forgetting to release the parking brake.
I'm pretty sure that if she passes the drivers' test and gets her license, I will be tagging along until she proves to me that she can hack it alone. When that time comes, I may also put a freeze on my credit cards.
"This is a car that by GM's own admission, won't make money.... which expects to price the car at up to $40,000."
"Were talking about a headache of a car that will have to be recharged for six hours to give 40 miles of gasoline-free driving. What if you park on the street or in a public garage? Tough luck. The Volt also will have a small gas engine onboard to recharge the battery for trips of more than 40 miles...... Hardly mentioned is the fact that gasoline goes bad after a few months. If the Volt is used as intended, for daily trips of 40 miles or less, the car's tank will have to be drained periodically and the gas disposed of." "Even as GM teeters toward bankruptcy and wheedles for billions in public aid, its forthcoming plug-in hybrid continues to absorb a big chunk of the company's product development budget."
I would hope that our government rejects GM plea for bail out cash and recognizes the free-market principal of survival of the fittest. GM has demonstrated over the last 35 years that they cannot compete with Toyota and Honda. Throwing government money their way without a radical restructuring of the company is a criminal waste of taxpayer money.
Where oh where are all those BMW fanboys anyways :confuse:
Am I one of them :surprise: Me the fellow who posts many critical things about BMW
As a former Audi owner and a potential Audi owner I have not a clue on which side of the battle I am on: BMW or Audi?
I appreciate your highly informative and objective post about those BMWs that cant drive on snow like an Audi, cannot sell as many cars as Audi and do not have the Lexus-like reliability of a Audi.
I guess this is why I am going buy a hybrid Lexus instead of either a BMW or Audi. Lexus is like Switzerland--a neutral party among the great warring armies of BMW and Audi. Yawn, yawn, yawn, yawn. Wake me up when this war is over.