Luxury Lounge

jlbl

"The difference I would say again is in comfort level, not necessarily performance. When I push the Accord around a corner, it feels harder to handle- not slower, but harder to handle."

Fully agreed!

For instance, Citroen has traditionally been very good in FWD drivetrains and suspensions. I owned a couple of Citroens with computer-assisted, both hydropneumatic suspension and anti roll bars (years before BMW introduced something comparable to the latter in its cars). Very good indeed. But I would finish any long trip much more tired than I had it done with a comparable RWD because of my fighting all trip long with the steering wheel, in spite that it was also hydropneumatically assisted.

Additionally, I feel that it is much more effortless to correct the driving line (once you are within a corner with some speed) with a RWD than with FWD. The latter is better for calculate the line, move accordingly at once the steering wheel, and resist the steering torque to avoid the under steering. (I hope I have explained myself :sick:)

Regards,
Jose

brightness04

And somehow swapping ends is better?

brightness04

Wet surface simply brings traction limit that much closer to the car's ability to put wheel torque to the ground. Cranking up engine horsepower output achieves the same thing by bringing wheel torque up to the road surface traction limit regardless what wheels are driving.

brightness04

Guess what, they are all designs derived from those made for Formula racing, which bans AWD. Considering how many Enzo's have run off the road and crashed in off-track use, I wouldn't cite Enzo if I were trying to make an argument for RWD over AWD. Enzo is a classic case of where AWD would have benefitted the car's survivability in real life performance driving tremendously.

brightness04

Glad we agree that RWD is not the king of the hill when AWD is around. IMHO, even FWD is not categorically inferior to RWD. When done right, FWD has the advantage of less weight and less parasitic drive train power loss. As we know, power-to-weight ratio is a critical ingredient for performance. The dynamic advantage that you mentioned regarding rotational moment in the XZ-plane (moment about the Y axis) is not a free lunch.

brightness04

Regarding Cayman vs. 911, you are comparing a two-seater to a four seater. More importantly, Cayman's engine is behind the driver's seat! Not up in the front of the car to drive wheels in the back. Same goes with Lamborghini. That setup once again shortens the drive train length, reducing weight and parasitic power loss at the same time.

Lotus? That also has the engine and driving wheels both located behind the driver's seat.

hpowders

Saw a Cayman two days ago in an indoor mall, of all places.
While indeed striking, it is a bit too low to the ground to be comfortable for ingress/egress for my rapidly oxidizing 6'2" frame.

Ahh... For the flexibility of youth!!

designman

Glad we agree that RWD is not the king of the hill when AWD is around.

That's not what I said. I said AWD has certain benefits. If you make the argument about parasitic power loss and weight with FWD, you have to apply it to AWD also. We can compare AWD with FWD forever but RWD comes out on top in terms of drive train of choice with sports cars and sport sedans. Comparing them is a tough task on matters of performance so I don't care to speculate on king of the hill. There's theory but not enough empirical data.

I don't care for the AWD Porsches. It takes away the fighter-jet nimbleness. On the other hand, it makes the 911 easier to drive hard due to skewing the weight balance away from the rear in addition to adding pulling vs pushing, reducing the oversteer when powering through corners.

cdnpinhead

". . .rapidly oxidizing. . ."

Well put.

Believe me, I feel your pain.

hpowders

Thanks!

Certain vehicles are not for me anymore and I regret that the Cayman is one of them. But it sure does look like it would be a blast!

I was thinking of my next vehicle being a BMW SUV to carry my road bike but I am so sick of getting flat tires, I just may toss the road bike! I'm not an SUV person anyway. I'll always be a BMW sedan person. Designman made a potent argument against the 335i convertible, which I would have to agree with.

You know, reading and occasionally interacting with the intelligent and wonderful people who live in this thread somehow slows the oxidation down just a tad.

cdnpinhead

I can't always remember what I've said to whom on which boards (that's another indicator, of course), so forgive me if I've run through this with you before.

I'm looking forward to a 3-series wagon (estate, avant, whatever) for my next vehicle. Given that my present car has spent at least 60% of its life (7 years, 110K miles) with the seatbacks down & my bike in the back, it seemed like the right thing to do. I ride a mountain bike to take advantage of the Phoenix-area canal banks &, a couple of times a year, actual trails in Winter Park or Sedona.

My requirements for my next vehicle haven't wavered at all for the past several years: manual transmission, RWD & room enough to carry my bicycle inside the vehicle. The herd gets culled in a hurry, especially if one is unwilling to deal with Cadillac or Mercedes.

I agree that it's rewarding to exchange thoughts with many on the boards here. Edmunds has become a touchstone for me, especially when I travel on business. The people make the thing, for better or worse.

drfill

Having a similar problem with my Integra. Is wearing my left knee out getting into it at 6'4".

Would I give a knee for a Porsche Cayman.....

Cayman S. The first truly beautiful Porsche!

DrFill

hpowders

I may be wrong, but I do not think there is enough room in the rear with the seats down for your bike in the 3 wagon.
Even in the X3 which has more room than the wagon, one has to put the bike in diagonally.

hpowders

As with Angelina, I will just have to admire the Cayman at a distance.

dan67

My experience with a 911 was very mixed. I loved and hated the car depending almost entirely on where I was going to drive. I think if you look for used 911's you'll see a remarkable number of older 911's with very low mileage from previous owners like myself.

For a drive of up to 150 miles on curved mountain or sea shore type roads I loved the car. Nothing holds the road as well or is as much fun to drive. The 911 has terrific power and running the gears is what this car was meant to do. Also the 911 seems dependable, beautiful, sounds great, and gets pretty good mileage.

For short trips around the city or for long trips on the highway the 911 is IMO a horror. It is too low for good visibility in the city and difficult to enter and exit with frequent stops. On interstate type roads it is too harshly sprung leading to true discomfort on expansion joints and it's very tight seating. Using the stick in stop and go is not an exercise I would choose for fun.

Buy a 911 as a second car and enjoy it for what it does well.

tagman

My experience with a 911 was very mixed.

Dan,
Your description of the 911 experience is very different from most of us that have the current model. It is 180 degrees different! The 911 forums are a great indication of this, but let me share my personal take on this.

I use the 997 regularly... on the current model, it's not really that harsh as long as the PASM is not turned on sport mode or set to stiffer suspension. In fact, it's surprisingly smooth in the "soft" setting, and when the call arises, the push of a button is all it takes to activate the monster. Visibility is fine and entering and exiting the vehicle isn't really that bad at all.

I've also been in plenty of vehicles that seem good at first, but after a while they become a torture chamber with seats that are either way too soft and mushy or too darn stiff like a park bench. I've had absolutely no problem finding the sweet spot with the Porsche 911 driver's seat (and saving it to memory #1).

Here in California, you can bet I've driven it over very rough roads as well as smooth. Sure it's no luxury sedan, but it's plenty smooth enough most all of the time.

Considering the incredible amount of fun it offers, I have no complaints. The shifting is so easy and precise... it's no big deal even in traffic... and I'm sure you know that we sometimes get plenty of traffic here in California. The engine and gear box allow you an incredibly wide operating range so when you are in the really nasty traffic, you can essentially stay in the most appropriate gear without having to constantly shift. But, heck, I like shifting the 911... it's a joy to shift and drive it.

Your remark about finding older Porsche's being available is interesting. I wouldn't claim to know the many reasons people trade in various cars. But I do know that I'm just being honest with my experience with the latest Carrera S. So far, it's an absolute joy to drive in almost any type of situation, and the more I drive it, the more I appreciate it. My last Carrera was an '86, and it wasn't nearly as comfortable or forgiving as this '07 is, although I really liked it a lot.

Again, with the PASM set the right way, and those incredibly comfortable seats adjusted properly, the latest 911 Carrera S serves me well in almost all of my driving situations. The upgrade stereo system is absolute top-notch, and is a pleasure to use once in a while. Hands-free telephone is integrated, if you activate the feature. The interior is first-class in this latest model. Navigation works well and the climate control is terrific. For a sports car with so much major performance to offer, it truly cradles the driver lavishly, IMO, and still can instantly deliver an adrenaline fix!

Just so you know, there are plenty of posters on the 911 board that use their current 911 as a daily driver, or for regular use, and are totally pleased... so my situation isn't unique.

Now, when I need to haul around a bunch of people or gear, I park the 911, and then it's SUV time... which doesn't bother me a bit. I don't mind an SUV once in a while. Actually, I kind of like SUVs, and IMO, they make perfect sense.

TagMan

lexusguy

And somehow swapping ends is better?

Than comical levels of understeer? Yes, absolutely. Cars with severe understeer are just not fun to drive. I saw a show (may have been Fifth Gear) where they were testing a FWD "sports car" on a track. The driver went into the corner too quickly, and the car began to plow across the road. He turned the wheel all the way to lock, nothing happened, it just kept on plowing. The amount of skill that the driver has in this type of car just doesn't matter, because past the limit the car completely ignores the steering wheel entirely. The only thing you can do is brake and hope the car doesn't plow off the road.

If the rear end steps out on the other hand, a driver with some skill can use the wheel and the throttle to get the car back in line. That's "fun".

tagman

Cars with severe understeer are just not fun to drive.

Amen.

drumminham

I can relate the whole rear wheel vs all wheel drive to my mountain bike racing career [short lived]

When full suspension mountain bikes came out in the early 90's they were heavy [very heavy] but offered something that hard tail bikes didn't, the ability to not have to chose your line so carefully. They also proved to be less fatigue inducing as less harshness was transferred to the rider.

The problem was, they were so heavy. They also transferred less road feel due to suspension bob, kind of like squatting to much, but wasting traction and power to do it.

All that to say, full suspension bikes have gotten much lighter, and like DSG style transmissions, riders just want whatever gives them an edge.

I'm still a hard tail guy [Specialized stump jumper comp, thank you very much] But the benefits of full suspension are rapidly putting hard tails out of business.

I think as all wheel drive gets lighter, like what Ricardo is doing with torque vectoring, and as company's get better with torque split, and weight distribution [see Audi R8]All wheel drive will prove to be more and more dominant in the years to come. For the reasons I stated earlier, less driver fatigue, the ability to put power down at goofy chasis angles.

Drifting is fun, but racing is about putting power down. All wheel drive is the future IMO.

tagman

I do expect to see a growing AWD segment. IMO, however, it will be best marketed as a helpful aid to weather-related driving challenges than as a performance booster. With so much of the country subjected to winter, it is natural for folks to perceive that they will be safer and more sure-footed if they purchse AWD. The same mentality has proved to be true with SUVs, equipped with AWD or 4X4... even though most of the 4X4 functionality is rarely engaged and rarely sees the light of day... it is mostly there for peace of mind.

But that said, there are valid points to be made for all the drivetrain configuratons. Personally, I hate torque steer and I hate understeer.

BTW, what AWD system do you think is genuinely well- engineered... and why?

TagMan

dan67

Tagman,

Thanks for your input and good news about the 911.

My experience was with a 2000 Carrera so I should have made it clearer that my opinion only related to that year. Sounds like Porsche has made major improvements in the driver comfort area since 2000. I'll have to try one.

Dan

drumminham

The Nissan system in the GTR's seem to be well done. Also the R8's drive train seems well sorted out. Audi is getting better as they gear quattro more towards performance rather than overall grip.

Understeer is something that's dialed in to every mass produced car that I can think of. It's a safety feature for the "less experienced" that can be corrected with throttle input by the "experienced". obviously easier in some rear drive cars of course. I'm sure your Porsche understeers initially in very tight slow corners, does it not?

Also, I think what Acura has done with SH-AWD is very interesting and gives a hint at what Ricardo will be doing with future Audi's [my opinion, nothing official yet]

There is something to be said [at least for me] for the feeling of 0 drama through corners that all wheel drive provides. I understand that at the limit, 2 wheel drive can be more intuitive, but that's coming down more towards drive line tuning, rather than strict rules of what wheels are driven.

Also, a sports package equipped car is more engaging than a non one IMO. A drive of a lowly little Audi 2.0T with sports package was far more come hither in an Angelina sort of way than the 335 bimmer non sports package. [and the bimmer was way more powerful....obviously]

My ultimate point is that there is far more to driving enjoyment than just drive train orientation.

lexusguy

I think as all wheel drive gets lighter, like what Ricardo is doing with torque vectoring, and as company's get better with torque split, and weight distribution [see Audi R8]All wheel drive will prove to be more and more dominant in the years to come. For the reasons I stated earlier, less driver fatigue, the ability to put power down at goofy chasis angles.

Drifting is fun, but racing is about putting power down. All wheel drive is the future IMO.

You could be right. One of my favorite cars, the Skyline GT-R, absolutely dominated the Japanese GT circuit until it was banned from using AWD. It will be interesting to see what happens with the new, 450hp+ GT-R. Same goes for the upcoming V-10 powered Audi R8.

lexusguy

BTW, what AWD system do you think is genuinely well- engineered... and why?

I think the current leading approaches to performance AWD are Quattro and ATTESA E-TS. Now that Audi is starting to push the front wheels ahead of the engine, the next RS4 could be a real monster. While most electronic AWD systems operate in FWD mode and shift torque rearward when necessary, ATTESA operates in pure RWD until it determines some extra traction up front is necessary, providing the best compromise of RWD performance with AWD security. It's pretty tough to tell the difference between a G35x and non sport G35 behind the wheel under normal conditions.

Unfortunately, Infiniti (along with most of the rest) have decided that buyers apparently don't want AWD and the sportiest available seats, suspension setup, and wheel\tire combos. Until that changes, RWD variants will continue to be around as the "sport" model.

We won't know what SH-AWD is really capable of unless Acura puts it in the NSX.

tagman

We won't know what SH-AWD is really capable of unless Acura puts it in the NSX.

And that is not out of the question I suppose.

TagMan

dewey

Also, a sports package equipped car is more engaging than a non one IMO. A drive of a lowly little Audi 2.0T with sports package was far more come hither in an Angelina sort of way than the 335 bimmer non sports package. [and the bimmer was way more powerful....obviously]
My ultimate point is that there is far more to driving enjoyment than just drive train orientation.

I agree! IMO and I repeat IMO I cant imagine driving a other car than a manual RWD perforance car with a sport package.

A Audi 2.0T with sport package better than a BMW335i without a sport package? Hmmmmm!

I never test drove a BMW 335i without a sport package but I do own one with a sport package. . In fact the AWD Audi S4 I test drove is not even close to my RWD BMW 335i (sport package) in terms of performance and handling.

dewey

Why would anyone waste their money on a BMW550i when they can buy a BMW535i?

SOURCE: NATIONAL POST

This twin turbo engine in the 535i is a gem of a motor, even more impressive in its own understated way than the King Kong V10 that powers the M5 and M6.

Deep inside the new 5 Series' specification sheet, almost all the way to the bottom of the numbers BMW uses to describe the updated sedan's features, dimensions and performance, is the only number that counts -- 6.0. Actually, it isn't the only one that matters; it needs contrast if it is to be truly illuminating. So, just to its right is the second-most-important number in the updated BMWs' repertoire--5.7.

What makes this comparison so interesting is that the first number represents the time it takes the new 535i to sprint to 60 miles an hour, while the second represents the time the topline 550i takes to scurry to the same speed.

Traditionally, there has been worlds of difference between the performance of BMW's six-cylinder 5 Series and the monster-motored V8 that represents the pinnacle of the range. Normally, the gap would be at least a second, the extra increase in power being justification for the added expense BMW distributors traditionally demand for having a more impressive numeral on the trunk lid.

But, BMW upset the apple cart late last year when it sprung its new twin-turbocharged 3.0-litre six -- dubbed not quite accurately as a 335 to lend emphasis to its outsized performance -- in the 335Ci Coupe. Many, including Yours Truly, expressed cynicism at BMW's decision to incorporate turbochargers -- the company has precious little experience with forced induction -- on what has always been its signature inline engine. It took only a short ride to turn that skepticism into outright fawning. The 335 sedan, coupe and cabriolet have won rave reviews and the turbocharged in-line six is this year's overall International Engine of the Year ( See Motor Mouth, DT2).

Now BMW is about to perform the same magic on the 5 Series. And the only downside -- at least if you're a BMW salesperson -- is that it threatens to relegate the top-of-the-line 550 to mere badge bling. Such is the 535i's outstanding performance that you're essentially buying the 550i for the bragging rights of two extra cylinders, not necessarily for any dramatic improvement in performance that those extra pistons bring.

The handling, as one might suspect, is exemplary, especially in the firmly suspended 550i and the 535i equipped with the $2,600 Sport Package. Body roll is minimal, grip is excellent and the steering is all that for which BMW is much lauded. The 535i may be even better in this last regard than the 550i. Weighing in at 1,660 kilograms, its 130-kg weight advantage over the 550i translates into slightly more delicate and precise steering.

link title

dewey

Demand for the new Lexus LS600h in the USA is relatively limpid compared to Europe and Japan. Why? Because North AMerican luxruy car buysers want POWER more than anything else.

There was once a theory proposed in this forum that Lexus lowballed the sales of the hybrid LS to maintain exclusivity. What a load of BUNK! The real reason is because demand is so incredibly low for such a luxury hybrid.

So how will this relate to the future demand for luxury diesels like an S Class Blutec or a Audi A8 TDI here in North America? Who knows? But this article indicates that fuel efficiency will not be the main reason for owning a diesel luxury vehicle.

Also one thing is certain: fuel efficient VW and Honda diesels will like hotcakes. MB, Audi and BMW diesels? Only time will tell.

SOURCE: WALL STREET JOURNAL

The auto maker expects to sell 180 LS models a month in Europe and 400 monthly in Japan, where overall Lexus sales are only about 30,000 vehicles annually. Toyota says it plans to sell 100 LS sedans monthly in China beginning in August.

The cautious sales estimates for the key U.S. market point to American consumers' thinking that hybrid gasoline-and-electric technology tends to come in more niche models like the Toyota Prius or more economical, mainstream cars like the Honda Civic. Unlike in Japan, where even the wealthiest consumers demand fuel efficiency, analysts say American buyers spending more than $100,000 on a car tend to be more concerned with performance than gas prices.

"There's a real difference in the acceptance of hybrid systems in the U.S., Europe and Japan," Mr. Sadakata said.

link title

dewey

Somebody here in this forum claimed that the majority of Lexus LS460 model are Long Wheel Base.

Nope that aint so! In otherwords most LS models sold today are the same as the older LS430 short wheel base versions

SOURCE LA TIMES

Lexus sells about 30,000 LS's in the U.S. each year. About 30% (9,000) of them are the long-wheelbase models.

link title

hpowders

"Why would anyone waste their money on a BMW 550i when they can buy a BMW 535i?"

I agree. Having a 535i out there makes the 550i seem pretty close to irrelevant. It will be interesting (to me, anyway) to see how BMW sets the leasing money factors and residual values for these two vehicles.

I can hardly wait for 2008 when I finally will be able to get serious and test drive some of those great new BMW's: the 335i sedan, 535i sedan, hopefully a diesel or two and a couple of X's.

The 535i must now be considered my number one pick at the moment. Not as quick as my 545i, but only "slower" by 0.2 seconds. (5.8 seconds, 0-60 mph, for the 545i) That's acceptable. :shades:

tagman

Somebody here in this forum claimed that the majority of Lexus LS460 model are Long Wheel Base.

Nope that aint so! In otherwords most LS models sold today are the same as the older LS430 short wheel base versions

From my recollection, I believe that everyone has been clear on that... but if someone stated that, then you have provided the correction.

Now there is something, however, regarding the LS460 that I remember being commented on... specifically that it was next to impossible to find an LS460 in its base version.... in other words the lowest price version of the vehicle being for advertising only, rarely seen in real life. I wonder if this has turned out to be true or not.

TagMan

dewey

can hardly wait for 2008 when I finally will be able to get serious and test drive some of those great new BMW's: the 335i sedan, 535i sedan, hopefully a diesel or two and a couple of X's.

I would wait for the diesels. A 530d/535d sounds most tempting to me.

dewey

These are the only stats I have and they are a few months old. That $72k range figure for an LS which includes probably about 30 percent LWB models suggests that many SWB and most likely LWB models are not fully loaded. If LS models were fully loaded then the average price figure would be far higher. Unless ofcourse LS models were already heavily discounted early this year.

dewey

"Ultimately the whole thing backfired on (Audi) because there were so many complaints to city councillors that in the end city councillors ended up calling us to find out what was going on with these signs because none of the bureaucrats knew," said Blackett.

Toronto is a bureaucrat's paradise but a marketeer's hell.
A guerilla marketing campaign for Audi's TT has backfired quite badly here in Toronto. Coincidentally the picture below is at a park near my house and I was quite amused when I saw it unexpectedly during a morning jog.

Linked below is an article regarding this disastrous Toronto Audi endeavor



AUDI CLASHES WITH BUREACRATS

tagman

That represents January sales... think that could include '06 LS models?

TagMan

dewey

Was the new 07 LS not introduced in the USA during Fall 06 or even earlier?

houdini1

Saw one up close and personal today and the pics do not do this car justice. Does anyone know if Audi has any plans to bring a diesel version of this thing over here?

hpowders

"I would wait for the diesels."

Not only depends on precise timing ( my 545i lease ends July 31, 2008), but also whether my area has readily available diesel fuel. As of now, the closest diesel is 17 miles away.

It would be a real shame for me to have to settle for a 535i.

tagman

I don't know the exact intro, but I think it was late fall. My question was geared towards the possibility of any left-over '06 LS430's... in January's LS sales data. ???

TagMan

dewey

Tagman,

as far as I know the new 07 LS460 was defintely introduced in Canada and the USA during October 06.

Have you seen the " 13 days to turn" LS figure on the chart on post 1773?

Obviously those figures used to compute the average sales price are not at all affected by 06 LS models that had over "120 days to turn" by ending Jauary 07. Otherwise the LS days to turn figure would have been far higher than 13 days.

Those average price figures definitely reflects 07 models with little if not any distortions from 06 leftover models.

dewey

Yeah Howard,

I remember you had posted that 17 miles away distance from a diesel pump before.

In that case I can fully understand why you are hesitant about diesels. Where I live that is not an issue. Our family would not have lived with the same diesel MB300D for almost a quarter of a century if the nearest diesel pump was 17 miles away. In fact we would not have even owned one.

The fact that our MB300D has lasted longer than most marriages (with or without pre-nuptial agreements) is a testament on how good diesels are in terms of longetivity.

dewey

Does anyone know if Audi has any plans to bring a diesel version of this thing (Q7) over here?

Note the words "this car will go on sale in 08 in North America." Hopefully that will be the case

More down to earth is a Q7 fitted with a 3.0-litre diesel engine that uses Bluetec technology, which Audi licenses from Mercedes-Benz. This car will go on sale in 2008 in North America.

link title

tagman

Good logical thinking, Dewey... no doubt they were all '07s... and the original point being that they probably included basic standard equipment versions w/o lots of extra options and packages.

TagMan

tagman

Houdini - I might need to check out that Q7. My wife's not big on the exterior styling, but if the interior is as good as most Audi interiors, maybe THAT could win her over.
My neighbor is about to get one (a Q7). He'll be trading in his X5. Maybe I'll check his out after he takes delivery. The diesel version (when it arrives) will be extra sweet!

TagMan

cyclone4

Unlike in Japan, where even the wealthiest consumers demand fuel efficiency, analysts say American buyers spending more than $100,000 on a car tend to be more concerned with performance than gas prices.

Well then, I must have the Japanese mindset living in America. The reason I cancelled my order for the LS600HL is due to what I consider poor gas mileage for a hybrid and nothing else. The LS600HL has more than enough power/performance to please me. It also has many other terrific features, but I just cannot see buying a hybrid that "only" gets 21 mpg. My decision also has nothing to do with the high cost (and getting higher) of gasoline these days.

cyclone4

I can settle this little "misunderstanding" right away. dewey is correct. I was also under the assumption that there are quite a lot more LS460L's being sold than the SWB model. However, when I was at my Lexus dealer a few weeks ago, I stated to the salespeople standing by that there were a lot more LS460L's being sold than the LS460's, right? The answer was an unequivocal NO. They said that at least at this dealership, only about 30-35% were LS460L's. I imagine it is very similar in all Lexus dealerships. I was very surprised by this. Obviously, most folks want to pay less than $70-72K and are sticking with the SWB. Personally, I think that the LS460L is much more of a car and I am ordering the 2008 LS460L as soon as the new specs are released.

hpowders

"Hesitant about diesels."

Well, Dewey, if not next year, hopefully by 2010, the diesel situation will improve down here.

I plan on leasing for only 2 years at a time because I see many great BMW's coming down the pike. The next 10 years should be among BMW's most glorious. I would like to drive as many as I can. 5 BMW's over the next 10 years sounds about right.

brightness04

A little critical thinking is in order here, IMHO. These numbers are estimates made by Lexus for the sake of market allocations. Read the first line of that article you quoted, the author is writing from Tokyo, where the price of LS600hL is $124,000. What is the MSRP for LS600hL in the US? $104,000. Given that Lexus has an outstanding track record of volume management to maintain price level, and that all LS600hL have to be shipped from Japan . . . it only makes sense that Lexus is limiting production to a level that won't be a case of overcapacity within a year or two when the initial craze dies down. Given that limited production level, which markets should have the high priority initially? Markets in which the price premium is the highest. It's no different from consumer electronics makers routinely release new generations products to the gadget-happy Japanese first. It's not necessarily saying that Americans would reject the product, but a simple case of selling to the highest bidders first.

lexusguy

but if the interior is as good as most Audi interiors, maybe THAT could win her over.

Audi has been using basically the same interior in all of their cars since the introduction of the new A6. If you like the inside of the A6, you'll like the Q7.

jlbl

May be Audi will launch this diesel Q7 in the USA on the next future. It will be in Europe in June 2007. Its performance is announced to be comparable to that of the gasser V8 Q7, but with lesser consume. The new diesel Q7 will add itself to the 6l V12 Q7 TD with 500 hp.

Audi Q7 TD
V8,
4,2 l,
326 hp,
0-100 km•h in 6.4 sec
236 km•h, max speed
11,1 liters•100km, average consume

Regards,
Jose