Luxury Lounge

dewey

Well here are some stats that may or may not arouse the curiosity of the majority of Amercian forum members.

Here's a link to a list of cars owned by various Presidential candidates:

link title

Notice how many own a hybrid . Are their hybrid choices based on public relations appearances or environmental convictions? A dubious question indeed.

Also Obama who happens to have shown how green he is lately drives a Chryser 300C :confuse: I dont know if it is a V6 or a V8 Hemi but a V6 is not much more fuel efficient than the Hemi.

esf

The LS600hL can't even hold 800lbs; it has a 250kg load capacity. Pretty pathetic, IMO.

The 760Li isn't much quicker than the 750Li, but the A8L W12 is definitely quicker than its 4.2L cousin.

'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330

esf

The 300C only comes in Hemi form- that's why it's called the 300C.

All other variants besides the SRT8 carry the simple name "Chrysler 300." So, yes, Obama has a Hemi.

'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330

dewey

Yikes, my knowlege of Chrysler products needs to be refreshed a bit. :sick:

I just found out that they no longer sell Cordobas and Plymouth Volares

hpowders

In the US, the fold-down rear seat costs extra as is metallic paint, both for $475 each, which is really pushing it, IMO.

I was pleasantly surprised to find such great insulation from bumpy surfaces in the 545i. Much better than the 3 Series.

blkhemi

Absolutely menacing!!!!!!

I guess the big intakes in the front bumpers are a new German desing theme, judging by the new BMW CS and this RS5, along with some of MB's upcoming product and current Audi product

With the current RS4 already giving the M3 something to worry about, even with it's poor weight distribution and heavier weight, this much better machine should definitely ring it in with the V8 M3, C63, and IS-F. The CTS-V, as I've heard, will not be something to take for granted as GM has found a way to wedge the new 450hp LS3 in the engine bay. And this time, there will be a CTS-v+ with the 510hp 7.0L LS7 crammed in there. Will be interesting indeed, this class of car.

anthonyp

Hi Blkhemi

I look forward to when you get another Audi...I personally also like the quality of the interior materials much better than the BMW...One of Audi`s weak spots has been the hp in the regular powered cars, so I hope they address that in the next a8...along with breaks that do not get the wheel so dirty so quickly..Almost, if not all, the European cars wear that dirty wheel badge, but I`m not paying five thousand extra for ceramic(unless it is built into the price in a sneaky manner) Later Tony

brightness04

BTW, the Miami airport is plastered with the new 3 series convertible ads, not one plate, but several plates in different locations touting the "flight simulation" . . . not sure if it is just new product introduction or too many of us who would have bought it are playing chicken with BMW on the interest lease rate issue. It's just "unsconscienable" to charge 7.5% when other cars on the same platform are charging only 2.5%. That's $2500 a year difference every year! But, hey, the company is out to make money not to be charitable; we will just have to hold our line longer waiting for the early birds to exhaust themselves.

brightness04

Is that for real? I can't find any load capacity (weight) spec on LS600hL. If it is indeed only 250kg (or about 550lbs), that would be the first major stumbling block for the car. It's kinda pointless to make a stretch car that can not hold three adults due to weight limitation. I'd like to know if that's for real.

altest

I'm not rich enough for a BMW, Lexus, etc. I just heard from a friend that BMW pricing follows this strange rule: the price is approximately the number on the car times 100, e.g. price of 540 would be 54000! I visited a dealer recently to check the rule and found that it's pretty good!

hpowders

BMW always jacks up the money factors on the new vehicles, so no surprise with the 335i convertible.

I never could understand those guys who have to be the first ones on the block with the latest cars and wind up paying through the nose.

Anyhow, I'm sure next year, the 335i convertible's money factor will be a bit more palatable. Especially from September-December 2008.

In this months "Roundel", BMWCCA's monthly magazine, some genius extols on the virtues of the 328xi wagon as being a much smarter choice over the X3.

I never realized that at this time paying $700 a month for the wagon on a lease from BMWFS is smarter than paying $530 for the X3. One also gets 10 cubic feet more cargo space with the X3, the option of comfort seats (not available in the wagon) and the option of front and rear parking sensors with the X3 whereas the wagon only has rear sensors available.

anthonyp

Hi Jose

I appreciate your posts, and would guess you to be a nice person, with much to share with your experiences abroad..Thank You Tony

tagman

we will just have to hold our line longer waiting for the early birds to exhaust themselves.

So, you are waiting to get one? I'm envious... I wouldn't mind at all having a 335i convertible.

TagMan

dewey

The conclusion of a LA Times LS600 Review:

What we have here is the automotive equivalent of a Hollywood blockbuster, a creative and technical tour de force, a tent-pole under which all the other Lexus cars can bathe in the shade.

It hardly matters if the company makes a per-unit profit, because the LS600h L puts down the marker. OK, Bentley, all right, Mercedes. Top this.

There's only one problem, and that is the car, wrapped in endless layers of refinement and cottony quiet, networked and sensor-ed to beat the band, is just so damned uninvolving.

The steering has zero feel. The brake pedal -- even with its electronic stroke compensation la-di-da -- has no touch worth mentioning. The computerized, cyber-managed air suspension does, indeed, deliver a gorgeous ride. How can something that is so hedonistic be so anhedonic?

It goes like crazy, but it drives like the world's most exotic electric shaver.

Yes, the 600h is significantly more economical than the V12-powered sedans with which it competes, but that's kind of like saying a whole-wheat Krispy Kreme doughnut is better for you than the full-fat version.

Until and unless Lexus can dial in the quintessence of driving pleasure -- cf. Bentley Flying Spur, Audi S8 -- the company will never be the team quarterback, but only the president of the chess club.

It's a paradox, really: You can have everything in a car; you just can't have everything.

link title

brightness04

Agree with you on all points. Not to mention that the sub-$500/mo X3 comes with the 3.0Si engine, whereas the wagon is the standard "-28" engine with 30 less horsepowers. BTW according to my caculator, a plain Jane one with automatic (standard equipment) is close to $400/mo, before tax; a local dealer is advertising $239/mo with $3800 cap reduction for a 24-mo lease . . . working out to be just a tad over $400/mo with no money down.

Also noticed that the same local dealer is advertising lease special on 328i Convertible! $399/mo with 5800 for 24/mo lease . . . working out to be equivalent to around $675/mo with no money down. Still quite expensive for what it is, but I'm encourage by the leasing ad this early in the product cycle (albeit for the not so exciting 328i). Perhaps we won't have to wait too long after all for our 335i convertible :-)

brightness04

For the price the dealers want right now though, I think 911 convertible makes for a much better deal. For me, half the fun in the game really is the hunt . . . see how low I can get it for . . . a little like angling in the Keys. Personally, I have set a goal of sub-$600/mo for the 335i convertible; the number is quite workable when BMWFS reduces the MF to sub-0.002 range like for most of their cars. The MF for sedan is only 0.0014. If the projected wait is too long, I may be tempted by a sub-$350/mo Z4 for a couple years to tide me over :-)

BTW, the new 3 series convertible is quite a porker, with the 335i weighing in close to 4000lbs, more than even the SC430! That and combined with the lack of visible convertible penache when the top is up, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be a marketting flop, and will need incentives to keep the cars moving. For comparison, Mustang is 600lbs lighter, and is a bigger car. The extra few inches in the rear hip room makes all the difference in terms of placing a suitcase there between the baby seat and the baby sitter on vacasions.

tagman

BTW, the new 3 series convertible is quite a porker, with the 335i weighing in close to 4000lbs, more than even the SC430! That and combined with the lack of visible convertible penache when the top is up, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be a marketting flop, and will need incentives to keep the cars moving.

335i a marketing flop? I doubt it.

From what I've seen and read so far, I really like the 335i convertible... and so does most everyone else. I'd sure like to drive one in the near future.

TagMan

brightness04

Sometimes I can't help wondering if the professional car reviewers are a little off kilter on their pursuit of handling. People don't buy 200+" cars for handling prowess. For the same amount of money, in the $100-300k class, Porsche, Ferrari and Lamboghini offer plenty cars that can run circles around the 200+ inchers as far as handling is concerned. Now with Paris Hilton about ready to actually do what jokes had Martha Stewart doing (shows with the host wearing pin-striped pajamas), the stretch-HELC buying public would probably give more thought to downloading the onus of day-to-day driving to someone else, and reserve personal time behind wheel for some weekend fun car like a real sportscar or something when one is focused on driving fun.

lexusguy

Mother:



Son:

jlbl

You are welcome

Jose

jlbl

Agreed! Nice pictures.

Jose

jlbl

"No sight of any luxury Japanese marques (I heard somewhere that Infiniti and Acura will be establishing their brands beyond North America)"

Dewey, I had forgotten to comment on that.

No, Infiniti and Acura are not seen much around here. In fact, Acura has still not been introduced in Europe to the best of my knowledge. Honda offers the Legend 3,5 VTEC, 295 hp, from € 57,500 (in Spain).
Infinity has been introduced, and you may see a few of them. Infinity is nonetheless going slowly up.

On the other hand, American cars like CTS/STS Cadillacs and Chrysler 300 C appeal some buyers because they are offered with great equipment and nice price. Also because of the "American car legend" reminiscence. From time to time you may see Corvettes (C6 and Z06). I have not selling figures of any of them.

Regards,
Jose

hpowders

It wasn't the first time I saw an article praising a 3 Series wagon over the X3.
I wonder why the MF for the 3 Series wagon is so high? It's not that great a mover in BMW's stable.

hpowders

You know, Brightness, I was thinking the same things!

The vehicle is quite heavy and is not that great-looking with the top up, IMO. Given some time, who knows? $600 a month or less for the 335i convertible would just about throw the X3 out the window for me. It's a long shot on the price but we'll see what happens. I do believe the money factor will be a touch lower next year, but not a whole lot.

designman

Ha ha, you should have P-shopped the roundel on the snout.

designman

For the price the dealers want right now though, I think 911 convertible makes for a much better deal.

Porsche leases: it doesn't get any worse from what I hear.

designman

I wonder why the MF for the 3 Series wagon is so high? It's not that great a mover in BMW's stable.

Probably the low production and poor market for wagons in general.

designman

I could be wrong but I don't think the convertible could ever be had at a bargain so don't hold your breath. Also it couldn't carry the torch of handling with the sedan and coupe. I think it gives up a good amount of torsional rigidity. Yeah, it's a heavy sled, a boulevard cruiser. A nice one though. Weight is also a major problem with the M3 convertible.

Cure for the top-up blues: keep the top down. Also, take advantage and savor the hardtop. The old ragtops with plastic windows are a major PITA.

Funny, the 3-series convertible started out hot in this thread. By the end of the day we may be picking out of the trash.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, just wanna soak up the s-u-u-u-u-u-n.
I wanna tell everyo-o-o-o-ne t-o-o-o-o l-i-i-ghten u-u-u-u-u-p
I wanna soak up the sun!

dewey

OUCH! Who would think a 38 Billion dollar stock deal would fizzle into nothing. In fact Daimler's paying to get rid of Chrysler.

OUCH again!

SOURCE: WALL STREET JOURNAL

DaimlerChrysler’s $7.4 billion “sale” of Chrysler has a great looking headline number. But a parsing of the company’s own press release shows that this is anything but a sale.

In fact, the numbers show it’s an outright giveaway. It’s actually going to cost Daimler about $650 million to unload a business it spent $36 billion on about 9 years ago.

Admittedly it’s early over here at Deal Journal headquarters, but we are still shaking our heads at the PR-doublespeak of Daimler’s press release, which gives a very strong impression that Cerberus Capital Management is taking over a majority of Chrysler “for $7.4 billion.”

As the release itself explains:

Cerberus is contributing $5 billion into the new company (this does not go to Daimler). And another $1.05 billion goes into the financial business (this, again, does not go to Daimler.)

Daimler gets $1.35 billion (but will loan the new company $400 million.)

So Daimler makes about $1 billion then, right?

Actually, no.

Like a politician obliquely saying “mistakes were made,” Daimler goes on to say that the restructuring “will give rise to a cash outflow” of $1.6 billion.

In sum, the net outflow will be about $650 million, plus another $878 million of “prepayment compensation”, Daimler says.

And that’s how a $7.4 billion windfall actually turns into a bill

dewey

Designman,

I guess you can recall our prior posts about Porsche and VW and the news below has been a forgone conclusion months ago:

BERLIN (AFP) - Management at Volkswagen, Europe's biggest car maker, Friday said it had unanimously rejected a takeover offer from German luxury sports car maker Porsche.

VW said in a statement following a special session of its supervisory board that management was convinced that "the value of Volkswagen shares is superior to the price offered."

Stuttgart-based Porsche announced in late March that it would exercise an option to buy an additional 3.6-percent stake in VW.

The additional shares raised Porsche's interest in VW to 30.9 percent, effectively obliging it under German law to launch a public takeover for all outstanding VW shares.

Under an offer to run until May 29 Porsche said it would propose 100.92 euros per ordinary share, which is well below VW's current price of around 111-112 euros.

Analysts have predicted that few VW shareholders would be tempted to take up Porsche's offer, adding that Porsche in effect has no intention of buying all of VW's share capital just yet.

They see the move as a means by which Porsche could increase its stature in VW without being forced to pay for any additional shares.

bristol2

Ouch indeed!

I wonder waht-now for the future of Chrysler? Private equity will be an interesting ownership paraidgm for such a storied brand.

Will it be good or will it be bad?

I would imagine that a sell-off of the 3 brands within Chrysler Holdings (the new company name) has to be on the agenda for someone. Private equity generally breaks a company down into components to amximize pay-back, but who knows, maybe Cerberus wants to be a car manufacturer...

dewey

What amazed me most about Europe were not the cars but the engines.

I saw a BMW 518i and 316i. And even a MB E180 (if I can recall correctly). That was years ago . I guess now many Europeans are reducing their fuel bills with more potent diesel engines than driving such cars with low displacement engines.

brightness04

True. However, at $800-900/mo, 911 convertible is within striking distance. It's absurd to pay that much for a high volume car based on the 3 series; it's not a GT3 or something (I know it's oxymoronic for me to even think of that, what GT race would take convertibles? not since the 1920's anyway). All IMHO of course.

dewey

The key benfit for Daimler is that they have reduced their liability to pay off Chrysler's humungous health/pension legacy costs.

Cerebreus has experience with their existing auto supply businesses and I guess they think Chrysler will mesh in with these businesses. It will be interesting to see how they will deal with the UAW and CAW unions.

brightness04

hahaha, we are a tough to satisfy and ungrateful bunch :-) I wish BMW did something like the VW EOS, which allows the hardtop to be a paranomic sunroof when the top is up. The market place is very weak; even the EOS is not selling well, despite much early dealer excitement. I was quite surprised at the lease special ad running so early for the 328i convertible. The reviews so far keep referring to the car as a nice boulevard cruiser . . . which IMHO is a back-handed praise (or slap in the face) for a 3 series. SC430, Solara and EOS are boulevard cruisers . . . not the 3 series; at least not how it should be.

The old ragtop with plastic window was E36. E46 convertibles had glass windows. I agree that the plastic windows were morbid; I would have got an E36 M3 convertible a long time ago if not for the plastic window; that car had a reliable engine and tranny combo well suited to driving this side of the pond.

brightness04

Good catch! Wow!

$37 billion over 9 years (plus another 650 million "closing cost" at the end), even at 7-8% commercial interest rate, that's over $70 billion! At an average per-vehicle sale/lease+sale total life time revenue of $35-40k, that's nearly 2 million cars hitting the concrete wall! So much for the idea of trade deficit . . . MB gave the US free cars for a decade!

hpowders

I guess.

hpowders

Ouch!

hpowders

I can see myself driving my new 335i convertible, a fast-moving, unpredicted thunderstorm approaches(not unheard of in Tampa), I quickly press the top-up button and....nothing happens. Admittedly a worst case scenario. :surprise:

dewey

It may get even worse for Daimler.

They will still own 19.9 percent of Chrysler which means they will be exposed to 19.9 percent of future Chrysler losses down the road.

hpowders

I come up with just over $700 a month for the 335i convertible at this time-similar to "my" 545i. I would be interested if I could pick one up summer-fall 2008 for $650, 24 months, tax included, no money down, one payment made for me by BMWCCA.

It is the perfect Florida car-it's like summer here all year round. The only problem would be dodging the uncannily accurate bombs launched by those obnoxious people-mocking gulls! :surprise:

My binding contract with BMWFS allows me the patience to wait.

tagman

This, from USA today...

the 600 doesn't seem worlds better than the LS 460 sedan.

Trip computer in test car showed 17.8 mpg
in a mix of sedate around-town driving and quite enthusiastic two-lane highway driving.

What's the point? Nuzzle up to super-affluent buyers, where Lexus hasn't yet made inroads.

The review is overall very complimentary and fair, but the impression one gets after reading is that the main purpose of the LS600hL is once again mostly about "marketing hype" and "image positioning" than anything else... which seems to be very true.

TagMan

tagman

True. However, at $800-900/mo, 911 convertible is within striking distance.

IMO, this looks like one of those apples and oranges comparisons that you generally don't like.

However, I certainly agree with you that the 911 cab is a more compelling aquisition than the 335i convertible, especially if it is true that the monthly lease numbers are as close as you suggest they are.

Given the terrible lease rate on the 335i, maybe dealing off the MSRP is much more relevant to acquiring it than its lease payment.

I didn't lease my 911, so I'm not sure of the Porsche lease program.

But, when all is said and done, and with all its faults, the 335i convertible is still one sweet car, IMO.

TagMan

hpowders

Correction: The 335i convertible, moderately-equipped, MSRP $54125, at the current base money factor of 0.00320(7.68%)from BMWFS would cost me $915 per month for 24 months, 7% tax included, no money down.

$650 per month on this vehicle will never happen, IMO. :surprise:

I also don't know how anyone comes up with $800-$900 a month for any 911 lease, unless you are talking about putting something like $30,000 down as a capitalized cost adjustment.

anthonyp

Hi H
Just drive a little faster, and have the wife have the garage dor open, and prepare to get wet....When you jump out the car just `laugh`, you`l be young again--briefly--Tony

hpowders

Sounds good on paper Tony.

designman

Yep, forgone conclusion. I guess the only factor was if VW share price went below the offer and it looks like it did come down somewhat IIRC.

designman

Here's a post from the forum on 911 leasing:

I received a quote for $1,200/month, tax already included, for a 36 month lease with 12k miles/year for a 2007 911 Carrera with an MSRP of $74k. Residual is 57%. $0 down.

designman

They're fun, yes. But if anyone is a first time vert buyer you should think twice. The thrill wears off quickly for most people and the window for good top-down weather is narrow unless you are cavalier about freezing your butt off or frying said butt. Weather permitting I always have the top down but notice that many many people with convertibles don't.

brightness04

Here's an ad from my local dealer:

http://media.bzresults.net/static/c/2110/uploads/advertisement-1299208626.pdf

The $800-900/mo figure was for 335i, not 911 convertible. My original statement meant if 335i costs $800-900/mo, I may as well pay a couple hundred more and get a 911 convertible.