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When I needed to upsize a bit from my A4, I drove a G35 as a cross-shop with the TL (this was in 2005). I liked the G35 somewhat but felt that it was....a bit "rough". There's a stretch of freeway ramp in my area that I use for test drives - you can take it at about 65mph on a moderate curve. It has a spot in it where there is a seam and some asphalt patch on top of the concrete - it generates a bump while you are in a moderate G turn. My A4 was as solid as a rock on that turn. On the TL, still solid (although steering is more mushy). On the G, the steering wheel wanted to yank out of my hands when it hit the bump. That handling effect, combined with the moderate coarseness of the G35 engine, is what ruled out the G for me. I don't know if the G37 has improved in that area.
This sure gets a WOW outa me! So, are you placing an order yet? What will this baby cost? $300-400K? That's just a drop in the bucket for you, right
Interesting. I drove a first gen G35x and didn't like the Nissan grade interior, but I didn't notice any serious handling vices like what you describe. The VQ V6 remains a bit of a gruff old bear, but other than that, the G37 is much more refined that the car it replaced.
I suspect that the next version will be superb considering the rate at which Infiniti is improving their products, but it's not due until 2012 or so.
Drop in the bucket? You are too funny! I got a wife and kids here. A sixteen year-old daughter who is a Junior in high school. Any money I am scraping together is going to her college fund. In addition to that, I've got a 10-year old son. Both kids are into so many different things, it's costing a fortune just to make ends meet around here. Not to mention the wife has needs too. If there is anything left over for me, I haven't seen any of it lately.
And... We relocated this year, and sold our previous home... the tax man cometh. :sick:
No more expensive cars for me for me for quite a while... if ever. And, to be perfectly honest... I really don't care.
Maybe Len can give us some advice that will make us a fortune!
TM
Indeed, I have.... and I have to say that this forum did influence me a wee bit. We had so much "debate" about style, performance, luxury, sport, value, reliability, etc.. etc... ad nauseum about these cars that was very informative. The quality of the debate and the points raised on all sides were really good and as a trained scientist, I appreciate hearing opposing viewpoints and ultimately evaluating these myself to see if it re-inforced my set beliefs or added new things to my knowledge. The latter was the casem and I was indeed happy to change...
Life is too short, why not live it to the fullest.... be open to new ideas and give it a shot.. who knows, you may be a changed person like I am
You and I are so similar, eh!
No more expensive cars for me for me for quite a while... if ever. And, to be perfectly honest... I really don't care
This I do NOT believe.... You are too much a car nut not to "dabble" regardless of your circumstances... besides, you have the means, why not...
And... We relocated this year, and sold our previous home... the tax man cometh
You need a good CPA. My wife is a CA-licensed CPA and she does wonders for our home tax filings... We somehow always end up with $$ from the IRS.. go figure
BTW, today is going a long way toward reaching my 9200 objective. As of this writing, the Dow is trading at about 9550. Wasn't the high a couple weeks ago, just above 9900? That was about the timing of my "sell, sell, sell, while others were buying, buying, buying" (from Trading Places).
This is definitely good advice. Hey, who knows what I will be driving (God willing) about 2-3 years from now. I suppose if I choose a Mercedes, Merc, the long time MB lover, will be resurrected :surprise: .
Which is the point about BMW. Why are they selling a compromised vehicle whose problems they refuse to address? Let me tell you about what the BMW dealership says I should do with my brand new car:
- Drive in SD mode all the time as a work around for the failure of the X3 to consistently move forward when the pedal is pushed.
- Get used to the bouncy, rocky, bucking ride because that is what the car does.
- Get used to the failure of the car to move out of the lower gears when climbing hills. It just does this.
- Engine brake stopping the car sans brakes causing it to suddenly stop short? No answer.
I don't even blame the dealership as they have no answers either. They do, however, know about this car as they already knew about the s/w upgrades for the transmission and the work arounds...work arounds? They should stop selling this car...oh right...they are going to stop selling it.
How does that help current owners at all? Well known problems? Well know to who? I didn't hear about all of these serious problems until after I had bought the car, experienced problems and went online to look specifically for these problems.
I do not enjoy feeling deceived about a car and I really don't like reading about ongoing, multi-year problems. The fix for this car is not a new car, it is a fix for MY CAR and yes, the problems are so bad that there will not be another BMW in my future.
From my personal experience I have to disagree.
I now have a car with the middling reliability of the Europeans and with a drive that is absolutely the worst of any car I have ever driven including the rental Impalas that I have gotten recently. The drive is incompetent. I do not know any other way to put it...incompetent.
If they can build one car like this, what makes anyone think they can't built 10 or 100 like this? Are they beyond their technological capability at this point? I am thinking that the answer is yes or else they would have fixed things by now.
From what I have personally experienced, in trying to make the car 'smart' and capable of 'learning' how a person drives, they made the car psychotic and stupid. It does things inconsistently and does other things for no apparent reason. That doesn't even begin to address what is wrong with the ride itself which, I think at this point, is a mechanical problem.
I must say that at this point I am stunned. Before this experience, I never would have thunk it about BMW either...I had to experience it for myself.
I would say between about 50 and 52. However, I need to inform you that I don't necessarily look at what price I should by buying individual stocks. I am more interested in trying to jump in at a certain level reached by the broad sector such as the S & P and the Dow. In this case, I am thinking that I will start to purchase stocks again when the Dow reaches 9200 or the S & P reaches around 990-1000.
Market timing is dangerous.... unless you work at Goldman Sachs where you have the computer tools and resources to beat the market at any level. Scary but true...
What is magical about the Dow at 9200 or the S&P at 990-1000? Nothing, really... The Dow could be at 15000 and sme stocks could be well under water... and vice versa. I don't care about the broad market, rather about a particular sector of the market and the dynamics that drive that sector. That's my investing concept... Hence I don't pay any attention to the Dow or NASD or S&P at any level... just focus on those market sectors of interest to me, and how those players are doing. The Dow/NASD/S&P numbers are just that - numbers.... may have some emotional connection for people, but not me.
Just my $0.02
Anybody have thoughts on the new C-class? Boy, that is a really handsome car IMHO. As a former A4 owner, I've been leery of MB for cost and reliability reasons, but I think the current C is the best looker of the smaller sporty sedans. I'm not really likely to buy, but one can fantasize. How does it drive, and how is the interior?
We ended up buying a Mazda 5. Same room, *outstanding* steering, no luxury interior but didn't pretend to be, and half the price. Its steering is *better* than my Acura TL, and it is a micro-minivan!
Agree with most of what you said, but disagree that even those with the software can repeatedly and successfully time the market.
You know what they say "I see all of the brokers' yachts.....where are their clients' yachts?!"
I think it is a tragedy when folks buy a car that is sub-par or has issues. I can't help but remember how General Motors and Ford treated vehicle safety as if it was a four letter word and an inconvenience to deal with.
There is no excuse, IMO, to sell cars that are unreliable junk. I strongly urge you to carefully do your homework next time. Also, you should really stand up for yourself and make sure your vehicle is serviced for everything that is wrong with it.
Get everything in writing. Document the whole situation. There might be some recourse for you eventually.
TM
Years back we had a lovely forest green Passat VR6 GLX wagon. Drove beautifully and looked like a million plus change, but spent some 83 days in the shop over a two-year period. I vowed never to own another VW - not based on the problems encountered or the inconvenience endured, because the car was such a delight to drive and look at, but rather on the what-did-you-do-to-our-car attitude of VWUSA service. That I have never forgiven.
TM, did you close on something in the Southland? I haven't kept up I'm afraid.
We have made our little shack in Carmel very comfy while I pen the plans for the remodel and start the permitting process.
The Audi S4 is the most compelling car out there in its segment. Canadian pricing has dropped down to the level of BMW 335xi . In this case Audi wins hands down.
PROBLEM with the S 4: Just like my BMW 335i it does not have enough rear seat space for my needs. My Prius surprisingly has comfortable seating space for 3 people
oak, you are absolutely correct on e at least one point. There is absolutely nothing magical about 9200. I picked that point a few weeks ago when I decided to sell basically all my stocks that I had been buying since the first of March. Call it luck or call it whatever you want. I got out near the top since I felt strongly that the market was due to a nice correction. I am bullish on the stack market, but it had gone up too much and too fast.
My thinking is that if the Dow sells off from 9940 to 9200 or so that is enough of a correction. I obviously reserve the right to change my mind at any time, but I am planning to start buying the same stocks I sold near the highs if the Dow reaches this level. A lot of my trading is based on feeling and I try to use some common sense of mostly buying dips and selling rallies. Also, I start to get worried when everybody is leaning one way. This is especially true in commodities trading.
I am not clever enough to look for individual stocks or sectors as you suggest. I figure that if I am right on what the S & P or Dow will do, I will make money on almost any stock I choose. To each his own on this one.
Timing is everything in trading. There are a lot of doom and gloom folks out there. I am not one of those at this time. We have seen the low in the market (March 1). However, I was doom and gloom in the summer of 2008. I had a strong feeling that we would be witnessing an economic collapse and I was trying to warm my friends and relatives to sell every stock they own. Some did and some did not. I actually started feeling a lot better about the economy once Obama got elected. This is one reason I started to buy in early March of this year. Anyway, I am looking to buy stocks again over the next month or two, hopefully after a little more correction. I repeat. Timing is everything.
I know exactly what you are talking about.
A BMW is suppose to be for people who love cars. Both our BMWs made us hate cars.
I read recently in a forum in which someone compared Volvos of the 70s/80s with the Prius. Both cars are anti-cars and both cars provoke strong passions among their owners. I hated my BMW so much that I yearned for an anti-car. I yearned for a Prius and now I feel much better off with my Prius then I would with any BMW.
My Prius sun roof works well as long as there is no shade on the solar panels.
I used to love BMWs. The proof is in my past posts.
But here's the situation imagine a dining connoisseur who eats a fugu blowfish and gets poisoned so badly that he spends 32 months in intensive care at a hospital.
When this connoisseur walks out of the hospital do you think that same connoisseur will crave a fugu blowfish again? I dont think so.
The same is applicable with my BMW after owning it for 32 months.
We have made our little shack in Carmel very comfy while I pen the plans for the remodel and start the permitting process.
Well, let's break out the Kool-aid! Seriously, congratulations on the Carmel shack! The shack I am buying is in Malibu, and no, we haven't closed on it yet... but all contingencies are removed and everything is approved and ready to close according to schedule... first week of November.
Like you, we are working on plans to remodel and update. We're working with a cool local architect, and expect to review some draft plans as early as next week. It's exciting, yet will be a pain in the butt while all the work is being done. Short walking distance to one of the world's best beaches makes it all worth it!
Watch your diet. Carmel and surrounding Monterey area have soooo many incredible eateries... I'd be in a heap of trouble... eating all the time.
TM
Regards,
OW
Well the engine is basically directly out of the Camry hybrid, so I imagine it drives a lot like a Camry hybrid. For me, the problem isn't so much the 4 cylinder as it is the styling and the interior. From the outside it looks too much like a generic Toyota economy car, and the interior is well.. Toyota economy car. I'm not impressed.
great to see you again.
What took you so long and why the heck are you on the wrong team again?
Before you were avidly defending Japanese cars and I was avidly defending German cars.
Now your hybrid Camry drove you into the arms of the Germans and my BMW 335i drove me into the arms of the Japanese.
So put on your boxing gloves because our fight is not finished yet.
Designed for optimal efficiency, the A5 prototype swaps its steel body construction for Audi’s aluminum space frame. The result is a body structure that is 40 percent lighter than that of a standard issue A5 Coupe.
Other carbon fiber bits also help to keep weight in check, dropping the A5 prototype’s weight to 2,888 pounds from 3,130 pounds.
Take THAT, BMW!!...and not a runflat to be seen...
A5 Featherweight
Regards,
OW
Your garage is a witness to a marriage that is made in Heaven or should I say Ingolstadt, Germany..
Remember your MINI. Didn't you say you didn't want to own a MINI ever again.
If I bought a Audi S4 and it was a lemon as my BMW 335i then yes I would boycott all German cars, German electrical tooth brushes and last but not least German coffee makers.
I agree. The X3 ride quality issues have been known since the car was first put on the market. The transmission and throttle response issues began with the '07 X3 (our year) and there wasn't a lot of information about it then, but there sure is now. A simple search of the X3 on sites like carreview have post after post of complaints about the bad transmission and throttle programming. If all you're getting from the dealer is a "they all do that" excuse... which is largely true in this case ironically, contact BMW NA, and if that doesn't work, go the lemon law route.
I'm not a fan at all. Its just another typical C-class, cramped, not particularly luxurious, not particularly great to drive. It is much better looking than the blob it replaced, but the blocky interior looks and feels cheap, and it doesn't offer several features available from the competition. Start loading a C350 up with options and its the same money as the S4, which is senseless. The Audi just rips it to shreds.
This car is everything other then what it should be.
It's not only an anti-car. It's an anti-everything or even a better description: a pro-mediocrity.
http://www.godubai.com/citylife/press_release_page.asp?pr=29697
This marketing communication is so low brow that it is embarassing for BMW.
I know BMW and Joy are two three letter words that mean opposite things to you. But here's one blessing for you. You dont have run flat tires. I hated them with a not so joyous passion
Dewey, there wasn't any concrete negative information about the Mini that should have warned me... most information was quite positive, just like there wasn't any major negative information about your 3-Series. Most information about the 3er was incredibly positive. But, contrary to that, there has been an abundance of negative information on the X3 that should throw enough caution to the wind.
And, don't forget that I bought numerous European cars since that Mini... and glad I did. I certainly didn't write-off all cars from Europe. That's just ridiculous, IMO.
And I repeat, I own American, Japanese, British, and German. All doing just fine... although the MDX is nearing the end of its useful life, and we have absolutely no idea what we will replace it with. Maybe a Prius?
TM
I read the reviews, did the test driving and, oh, I had a 5 series with over 100K miles on it that was the most comfortable, best driving car I had ever driven. Not great on maintenance but I used to put lots more miles on my cars and now I don't. My biggest concern with the X3 was the reliability after it was nearer 100K miles not a myriad of issues when I still have less than 500 miles on it.
I didn't see the problems with the X3's 2007 AT until after my X3 couldn't make it up a little hill without jerking and it couldn't drive without bouncing. It was then that I found all the complaints including those on the NHTSA site. Even then people were saying that the issues were mostly cured and, BMW couldn't possibly still be selling the *** transmission in the 2009 could it? After all, that would be nearly 3 years after the problems began to surface.
Blame the customer for not seeing all of the issues during a test drive is not high on my priority list. It is up to the manufacturer to have a car that drives well especially when it is, pound for pound, the most expensive car in its class. That is why I say BMW is like GM from 30 years ago and I don't see the other Europeans as any better...some are actually worse.
I wish they would just go back to making cars that were engaging to drive, had reasonable ride characteristics, and didn't feel like rolling retirement homes or mission control. I don't want to launch the space shuttle from my dashboard, I just want to drive to work and enjoy the experience with responsive steering, a great gearbox, and an acceptable suspension. I would also like a radio.
If you get that right, its amazing how much else you can forgive. The 2002tii, the '81 528i, and the '97 M3/4 were all fantastic to me. I think the M3/4 did everything I could ever ask of it.
Volkswagen did a research project in the states a while back and one of their findings was the market in Europe focused on driving, and the market in North America focused on not driving. They then started adding cupholders and MP3 players to their vehicles.
I have repeated myself here enough times and continue to state that I disagree with your perspective as you stated in your post whereby you stated you were totally done with all European cars until they find and fire the guys responsible for your X3 problems.
I believe that there are many better European cars than the X3, and that shutting the door on them entirely is just a bit extreme, to say the least.
I also offered you the suggestion that you try to document your issues in writing, because you may have some form of recourse available to you as time unfolds, and your experience with the X3 broadens.
I'm on your side. Just dont' agree with the extreme reaction to ban all of the European marques.
TM
Holy smokes, Dewey... are you that much anti-BMW? This sounds like heresy to my ears... Indeed, I have been gone way too long to understand how that 32 months of the 335xi did to your German heart. Sorry about the fugu
OK, so your Prius can seat 3 people, can it drive those 3 up a 35degree incline without coughing blood? But, I am no fan of the 335i either.... My love belongs to the Audi family.
So put on your boxing gloves because our fight is not finished yet.
Hehehehe... those were the days, eh? What would Len think of me today reading my love for Germans, and lukewarm to Japan? Geez, I cannot even believe myself sometimes.... its like my body has been re-possessed by a Martian, ehm... a German
So what if it only does 35mpg!!! For the same price as the HS250h (~$35K), that'll be a steal... get all the hybrid/eco-friendly stuff plus a car that actually drives like a car...
One can dream.... :shades:
A very well chosen metaphor I understand why and how you are fed up with BMW for a long while (I cannot daresay for life
All the best for you and your Prius and may be the Audi-to-come!!!
Regards,
Jose
OIC. Thanks.
That would give BMW the booby prize for deception in peddling the X3? That is not a confidence builder. The situation is so bad that I wouldn't trust another European car manufacturer because I do not think BMW is the worst of the Europeans. I do not think that VW/Audi/Porsche/Whatever is any better. Volvo? Volvo was providing $6K factory cash and 6 year warranties. Ford is still peddling them to the Chinese I believe. Who else is there?
Why would I ever take another chance of having yet another miserable experience for $45,000? We are not buying a box of cookies, this is a major purchase and when it goes this badly then I am not coming back....I am not the only one.
Fool me once.....
But just can't agree on the total European ban.
TM
BMW's emphasis and priority now is efficiency dynamics not performance anymore.
Both of us having a Prius in our garage know that should not be a bad thing BUT it could be very bad if we anticipate a future 2002tii.
MB has been going downhill on reliability, Audi/VW/Etc. isn't any better...who else does that leave? Remember the British makes? All I remember are cars that enthusiasts loved that were so weird and unreliable that no one else did.
I understand how this guy feels:
http://www.egmcartech.com/2009/06/03/disgruntled-land-rover-owner-lists-problems- -with-suv-on-window-leaves-it-outside-dealership/
Helping him into a new vehicle? Do they think that the customer never wants one of their vehicles? This kind of frustration doesn't just begin and end with a single vehicle, it extends to other vehicles...just how far that net is cast depends on how differentiated the other cars/manufacturers are.
In this case...not much difference. From what I see now, there is some fictitious 'premium' in drive 'quality' that is so subjective and downright silly in standard driving applications (commuting, going to the mall, etc.) that it doesn't really exist.
If the European makes have no real difference in drive quality then what are they going to offer? A nice logo?
Nope. BMW = GM from old.
Fuel efficient performance works wonders with a Telsa that can rev at 0 and at the same time accelerate at Ferrari levels. But with Toyota's current HSD it just not going to work as a thrilling andrenalin dripping performance vehicle.
Cliff climbing with my Prius?
Not a problem here in flat Toronto. I guess your hybrid Camry has to climb those Califronian slopes which is far from ideal for a hybrid.
Makes me wonder why Toyota hyrbids per capita are sold at their highest levels in Calfornia ? The mountains in that State makes hybrid cars less than ideal.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Maybe I'm insane to want a Audi S4. But if I do buy one and it ends up being a disappointment then my insanity will be cured and I will never buy another German car again.
I dreaded attending these forums because I may convince myself in buying a Audi S4. If I was sane I would avoid this forum . All these Audi compliments in this forum is as toxic to my mind as a opium cloud.
Ditto the transmission problems that began in the 2007 GM6 AT. They supposedly fixed the issues with the s/w upgrades. My car has the lastest s/w. Do we then agree that BMW is INCOMPETENT?
I use the term incompetent to mean that BMW sells at least one car that is so bad it should have AVOID written all over it? You know, it still does not. There are posts saying that it is a great car, it has really good reliability, it drives like a sports car, yada, yada, yada. How can anyone know what is the truth and what is hype?
One major reason you buy from a premium manufacturer is to get a better car. That is my point. Your expectation is that you will pay the money, get a better car and be happier for it. Otherwise, why pay up?
Blaming the customer for being stupid enough to buy a 'compromised' car is not on my priority list.
At this point of time I couldn't think of a better car. Except maybe a Audi R Spyder. Otherwise none.