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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Speaking of Mercedes getting the short end of the stick, has anyone else seen the new Audi commercial starring Jason Stathom? It's hilarious! He's playing a getaway driver.

    That's actually a fairly old ad, it may have been from the Superbowl if I remember correctly. It covers four eras, the '70s, '80s, '90s, and '00s. The message is basically - in the '70s you drove a Mercedes, in the '80s you drove a BMW, in the '90s you drove a Lexus, although in the funniest part of the commercial, he looks at an ES300 and just sighs, he wouldn't even drive it. Finally, cut to the modern era, and an A6 3.0T.

    It's a good commercial, and you can watch it on Audi's website by clicking on the photos and videos section under the A6. IMO Audi's best commercial though is still the online only "Meet the Beckers". Their jabs at BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus in that are much sharper.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Speaking of TV technology, is DLP a dead platform? :( I have a Mitsubishi HD DLP and I love it. To these eyes, it's every bit as good or better than the plasmas and LCDs I've seen. I can't recall having seen an LED set yet. I don't do a whole lot of TV shopping. Heck, I still have a 12 year old 33" Goldstar CRT TV going strong in my bedroom.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I've been following this story recently, and thought I'd make sure you gentlemen are aware of tomorrow's (Oct. 29) race whereby General Motors Company’s Vice Chairman Bob Lutz will be racing a Cadillac CTS-V at the Monticello Motor Club against those have have accepted his challenge. Of course, there was a screening process in place, but it all appears to be very legitimate at this point.

    I think this will be interesting, because the Caddy truly does have credible specs...

    6.2L supercharged V8 (LSA) that produces 556-hp with a peak torque of 551 lb-ft.
    0-60 mph in just 3.9 seconds.
    Top speed of 195 mph (6-speed manual, 171 mph with 6-speed A/T.)

    To my surprise... just today, it seems Jaguar has changed their mind and will pull their XFR out of the race... Reason? Apparently, Jaguar said that the XFR lacks better brake cooling and probably couldn’t lap the Monticello without endangering the driver. Shame on you, Jaguar... you are no Leaper, just a pussycat.

    Tomorrow is the day. Any predictions on the results?

    (Brief off-topic note: I believe this is now the market "correction" I was talking about. I personally went back in a little too early, but nonetheless, think about being ready to buy at/near the lows.)

    TM
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    TM, could you tell me if the linked list of competitors is updated?

    Cadillac CTS-V vs. Jalopnik

    Regards,
    Jose
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Here's where to continue that line of conversation: Home Theater.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Please post any further market comments here: Stock Market and Investing. The most recent comments were moved there, so the continuity will be appreciated!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    TM, could you tell me if the linked list of competitors is updated?

    Jose,

    The news is scattered around the internet, and seems less organized than it should be, but this site and its blogs and links might be one of the more helpful ones...

    link title

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    OK. boss... Will do. I honestly do understand how some of this got out of hand over a period of time, but... even a tiny reference within a predominently on-topic auto-related post is now frowned upon? Sounds like we've navigated to a total zero-tolerance policy. Does it really need to go that far? It's obvious that we prefer to post here and not there. Can't there be a balance?

    Take a moment to help us all out here. :)

    With full and genuine respect,

    TagMan
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Uhh, admittedly I don't know much on the background of the drivers as race pilots. Based on what I've quickly researched, a combination of a professional driver and the Evo or the RS4 looks to me as difficult to be beaten.

    But I'm only putting my "honrrilla" in my betting on the winner and the "colocado". :P

    Regards,
    Jose
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The problem is that every off-topic reference begets (hah!) a response which begets several more responses and there we go.

    We have appropriate places to pursue the off-topic interests that some of you have. We are simply asking that you use them.

    If you use the features related to Watched Items, it is a snap to follow several topics at one time and not even care that you have moved from one to another. You folks really should try it instead of dismissing it out of hand.

    :)
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Does it really need to go that far? It's obvious that we prefer to post here and not there. Can't there be a balance?

    My humbler and most sincere support to that.

    Regards,
    Jose

    Edit: Too late posted.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Jose, tagman, anyone else who wants to chime in:

    I am sorry, this is not negotiable. Please see my last post as I added a suggestion about Watched Items.

    Let's not get off track on a debate that doesn't have more than one outcome.

    Thanks, I really appreciate your cooperation.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Jeffrey must be reading this forum. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Thanks Lexusguy and Sanjaysdca,

    now I know which TV is the Audi S4 of the industry.

    .
  • raymmerraymmer Member Posts: 16
    Bravo, Bravo, I don't come here looking to hear about the Stock Market! I come to hear about Luxury Cars! thanks Pat.
    RRS
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    "And please don't tell me that Audi S4 of yours is yellow or else I will become green with envy..."

    Nope, Ice Silver Metallic! I didn't know of your fondness for the S4?! As you know, Tony and I are part of a growing minority around here. I've been touting Audi's here and abroad for years only to be told that they are second tier, unworthy, faux-luxury posers! Well these posers are sure making some dents in the luxury car arena. How does a 7 year old A8 continue to be at the top of rankings and lists? The new A4(particularly quattrosport and S4) have received nothing but rave reviews. Even 3-Series-leaning C&D had to tip the hat in the S4's favor here recently, in a wide margin!

    I don't think the rear seats are anymore cramped than those of my traded 335i, maybe a bit bigger by accounts. This car is much wider than the 3 and on a longer wheelbase, so I think that helps out in passenger room.

    Regarding the Benz, it was just a thought. I think I will take sabatical from the uber-luxo rides for a while, maybe just until the new A8 comes aroung maybe, or A7. The new 7-Series just doesn't seem to do it for me(abrupt throttle tip-in, somewhat flinty ride), and as you'll remember, I got rid of an S600 after 3 months of ownership.

    Good luck on your chase for the S4!
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Tell your mom to try the new A6 3.0T S-Line. It is quite impressive and a blast to drive. It beat the new E-Class plus other cars in this segment in a recent comparo (I think it was Motor Trend last month). The A6 is highly reliable and one of Consumer Report's best and beats the E-Class in reliability. My mother had a 2000 A6 4.2 which was had no problems for the 5 years she owned it. Then she bought another A6. This time a 2005 A6 4.2 which over the last four years never had an issue. This past summer she went all out and bought herself a 2009 S6 in "Adventure Blue Pearl Effect" and added the 20" rim option to boot. At 78, she hates being boring and her S6 sure stand outs among her friends' Lexus. They all want a ride from her. The young guys at gas stations are always asking her if she knows what she is driving. She quickly points out that she came here from Germany and doesn't need the car lesson.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    "At 78, she hates being boring and her S6 sure stand outs among her friends' Lexus..."

    Wow! I will get out of the passing lane if I see your mom in that S6! She sounds a lot like my mom, who @ 94, drives her 2004 SL500 like she stole it! No Buick Roadmasters, Mercury GM's, or Lincoln TC's in her garage! Just that and my late father's 2006 Dodge Ram 3500 dually that she refuses to sell as that it is what she uses to pull our Coachmen when going to the mountains(of course she makes me drive!). She refuses to stop... Ah, and the old man bought a brand new '06 Z06 before he passed on @ 93! Now do you see where I got it from?

    Nice to hear from you again! Still enjoying those Audi's?
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Nice to see you back to the forums. I pop in and out in terms of posting, but keep up with the blog. See you still have an impressive garage. Yes, still enjoying my Audis. Seems to be a family affair as you can see. Yeah, I can barely keep up with my mom. She has an unkany talent for apexing from one lane to the next that I seem not to have inherited. She thinks American drivers are too slow. She misses the Bavarian autobahns near our home outside of Munich. My dad was the same. Many cars. I mean we had a '75 Jensen Interceptor (now that was one fast heavy car). So, I know where you are coming from.

    I am looking forward to the upcoming A7/S7 or the new S8 (>600 bhp). Potential new rides.
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    Hemi - I agree, I am driving my second A8, a 2009 and I timed the lease to expire 9/30/2010 so I can get the new model as it arrives on our shores next fall. I feel that Audi is really doing a lot of things well as they have been able to really improve all aspects of their cars and I think are well poised to continue to gain share in the marketplace.

    In an effort for full disclosure I also have a Benz and a BMW but they may be the last of both of those brands that I buy for a while. I feel that each of those guys have made product based decisions that will not align with my future buying habits.

    I have never driven an S4 but I did drive an A4 as a loaner yesterday as I had to go to the same dealer for service for the second week in a row, and due to a big mistake on their part, I'll have to return again next week.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    TM, could you tell me if the linked list of competitors is updated?

    The "pro" challengers are Jalopnik, Jack Baruth from TTAC, and Lawrence Ulrich from the NYT. Unfortunately no manufacturer wants to supply them with a car, so the contest has devolved from "may the best car win" to "can somebody please beat Bob Lutz". Not much to see here unfortunately. US auto blogs don't have Top Gear's kind of power to just assemble a bunch of supercars on a track whenever they feel like it.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I think I will take sabatical from the uber-luxo rides for a while, maybe just until the new A8 comes aroung maybe, or A7.

    The A7 looks like a sweet machine indeed. I'm perfectly fine if Audi decides to leave future A1s and A2s in Europe, but they really should bring the A7 to these shores.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I don't think the rear seats are anymore cramped than those of my traded 335i

    True. And that is exactly why I find them cramped. My kids complained about my BMW 335i.

    Future European car design will change in the future especially in terms of interior rear space. Why? Because Chinese tastes will have a big affect on how cars are designed in the future. By then it will probablybe far too late for me since I may end up being an empty nester who yearns to have a two seater in 2019

    BEIJING -- A decade ago, in search of inspiration for an ultra-luxurious Mercedes-Benz, designer Olivier Boulay studied Japan's chauffeur-car culture.

    Now, as he dreams about the future of the automobile, he zips around the streets of Beijing on a $367 electric bike, along with throngs of the city's residents.

    "China is the perfect place to think about the future shape of mobility," said Mr. Boulay, the 52-year-old design chief for Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz unit in China, who moved to Beijing from Tokyo this year. "It's my job here to push my staff to push the envelope and think about the global automotive future from Beijing."

    Mr. Boulay reflects a profound shift taking place in the car industry. As the Chinese car market expands, global auto makers increasingly are making design decisions in China. The result is that consumer trends in China are being felt in models sold around the world.

    While China accounts for only about 4% of overall Mercedes sales, customers around the world are seeing features the Chinese like: bigger, limousine-like back seats with more-advanced entertainment and climate-control systems

    Wall Street Journal
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Your mother has definitely brought the Autobahn culture to our continent.

    My mother too is from Hamburg, Germany and despite that she's no enthusiast since she learned her driving here in North America in a 67 Ford 500 Custom. That kind of car would pre-empt anyone from becoming an enthusiast.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I have never driven an S4 but I did drive an A4 as a loaner yesterday as I had to go to the same dealer for service for the second week in a row, and due to a big mistake on their part, I'll have to return again next week.

    Almost sounds like your Audi dealership is run by the same guys who ran my BMW dealership
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi Dewey

    Back in 67 we didn`t really care that much about the drive, as no one I knew had any money to spare on fancy cars.....Now if we did, if would be for a Parsche, and as you know it certainly wasn`t plush......Sorry you missed the discouraged financial opinions recently, as you know you could have made some good points---oh well all in the past......Tony
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    This... according to the White House...

    Edmunds.com's "faulty analysis suggesting that the cash for clunkers program had no meaningful impact on our economy or on overall auto sales. This is the latest of several critical 'analyses' of the cash for clunkers program from Edmunds.com, which appear designed to grab headlines and get coverage on cable TV," the White House said on its blog Thursday afternoon. "Like many of their previous attempts, this latest claim doesn't withstand even basic scrutiny."

    This... according to Mike Jackson, chairman and CEO of AutoNation...

    While Edmunds is usually highly respected within the automotive industry for its accuracy and reliability, he said, its analysis of the cash for clunkers program is "shoddy."

    "Simply put, they've misrepresented the facts, and the White House is completely justified in calling them out on it," Jackson said, adding that it appears "Edmunds' political views have tainted their usual rigorous approach to research."

    "I know from our sales at AutoNation just how significant the impact of the cash for clunkers promotion was in our dealerships, and our own internal figures indicate that the rate of increase was consistent with what other retailers, manufacturers and governmental agencies have been estimating," he said.

    "We believe that the incremental sales are over 500,000 new vehicles. Edmunds may not want to believe Ford or General Motors or Moody's or the White House or any of the dozens of other reliable parties who saw significant sales increases as a direct and indirect result of the program, but that doesn't make the increases any less real."


    Sounds like Edmunds and Edmunds CEO Jeremy Anwyl are in a bit of a pickle on this one. You guys can decide for yourself. Here's the link. link title

    TM
  • skarieskarie Member Posts: 78
    Evidence mounting that 2010 Audi S4 is underrated

    Everyone knows that the BMW 335i is the most underrated car currently on the market in terms of raw thrust and grunt. BMW claims 300 hp and 300 torques, but even dogs know that BMW's trick 3.0-liter twin-turbo engine puts out much closer to 350 hp and 350 tire-spinning pound feet of torque. Why? Well, lower insurance rates for their customers probably isn't one of the reasons. However, remember that when the E90/E92 3 Series came out, BMW was still selling the 333 horsepower E46 M3. Meaning that it would be pretty hard to sell an older, $55,000 car with less power than a newer and just as quick $40,000 car. Or so the theory goes, though we should point out that BMW engineers angrily call us liars when we bring this scenario up.

    And guess what? Looks like Audi is pulling the same trick with their new supercharged S4. Volkswagen and Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques.
    link title
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I think this post should be allowed since it's related to one of the luxury marques
    I've just read that the entire production run of the LFA will be just 500 cars. So, this car is already a classic even before they make them. It should at least double in value by the time people can actually buy them off the leases.
    link title
    Scrap that real estate investment idea... I am ready with my deposit. I hope they will save a copy for me. :blush::blush::blush:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Jeremy A. is in a pickle sandwich afaic when he stated we should be raising gasoline taxes to incent buying fuel efficient vehicles. He's been on my "S" list from then on.

    No surprise that Edmunds has changed over the years but some aspects of the changes do NOT produce accurate analysis. The feel of the site has faded recently from my POV.

    As far as posting off topic comments, there was a time when Luxury Lounge included all things of luxury including the financial world which leads to the means to squire Luxury vehicles in the first place. The strictness lately has reflected some of the junk that is flowing down hill from the Executive Suite, no doubt. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I am with you. This is the only car forum I found interesting for what it was.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    a month of hiatus and I missed all the good stuff :P
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    These are what seems to be the "final" standings. If so, an Audi RS-4 placed 11th.

    1. Cadillac CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560
    2. Cadillac CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183
    3. Cadillac CTS-V (Aaron Link): 2:48:902
    4. BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424
    5. Cadillac CTS-V (Jack Baruth): 2:51:153
    6. Cadillac CTS-V (Lawrence Ulrich): 2:53:026
    7. Cadillac CTS-V (Bob Lutz): 2:56:321
    8. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X (Wes Siler): 3:08.126
    9. BMW M5 (Michael Mainwald): 3:08:989
    10. Cadillac CTS-V (Chris Fairman.): 3:14:292
    11. Audi RS4 (Tom Loder): 3:15:702
    12. Jaguar XF (Archan Basu): 3:16.670

    I believe that these these standings were not quite final...
    So, the Audi and Jaguar changed positions.

    image

    No matter what... the Caddy certainly showed its stuff. Not a bad showing for one of my favorites... the BMW M3.

    TM
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    So, as for my betting…
    :sick: :sick:

    Seriously, it seems there was quite a big gap between the first and the 12th classified; not so between the first and the 6th.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I am personally taking all these results with a big grain of salt.

    But, the main point has been made, regardless... The cadillac CTS-V is indeed a formidable vehicle with plenty of clout that deserves respect... perhaps more than it gets from certain circles.

    TM
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The Caddy is going to get respect but it seems to me as this car is akin to a new entrant into an elite motor club of sedans never having a U.S.-made member before.

    I am still not convinced that GM's Cadillac is a world class elite car manufacturer by a wide margin. Also, when it comes to the full package, the list changes drastically in my view.

    Regards,
    OW
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi

    I was wondering if you were really serious with the Mercedes, and now see you have re thought that position...I agree with you, as I really don`t think the Mercedes would excite you at all..Just too big...I was thinking of the diesel e, and dropped that idea also, although I do think the e is an attractive car, and think Mercedes is doing the right thing to offer the higher grade options if a person were to desire them.....Tony
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "No, I don't see why if you're, say, a dentist and you can afford a $375,000 car and you really have a passion for Lexus technology and Lexus engineering, you can't end up in one of these cars," Di Felice said.

    Who has a passion for Lexus technology and Lexus engineering? Dentists.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    No matter what... the Caddy certainly showed its stuff. Not a bad showing for one of my favorites... the BMW M3.

    Technically the M3 won. The contest was "you come with whatever sedan you want and try to beat Bob Lutz in a CTS-V." Mr. Cooper did just that in his M3. The contest was never about beating Cadillac engineers and test drivers. I suspect if Motorsport actually got involved and brought their own engineers and test drivers, the M3 may well have been at the top of the board.

    In any case it succeeds at what it was always designed to be, a PR stunt for Cadillac. The CTS-V is an impressive machine, no doubt about that, but I wonder how long the whole V series will continue to exist when faced with the reality of the business. Based on Nurburgring times the CTS-V is the fastest thing with 4 doors short of a Panamera Turbo, but unlike GM, the Germans still have some money, and will continue to improve their cars.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Technically the M3 won. The contest was "you come with whatever sedan you want and try to beat Bob Lutz in a CTS-V." Mr. Cooper did just that in his M3.

    Ahh, thank you LG for putting that in perspective. Yes, technically the M3 won.

    In any case it succeeds at what it was always designed to be, a PR stunt for Cadillac.

    That was quite obvious from the start. The question becomes, just how effective was it? GM has big hurdles to jump... even bigger than before, now that the world has witnessed its near collapse. The actual GM company itself, beyond its already questionable products, is further burdened with a negative stigma to overcome.

    I expect we'll be seeing plenty more PR attempts from GM down the road.

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I expect we'll be seeing plenty more PR attempts from GM down the road.

    Of course, that's been the GM culture for decades. It's always about the next stunt, or gimmick, or sale. The "V-series challenge" does nothing to move more Malibus, and it also sort of glosses over the fact that other than the CTS, the rest of the Vs are either dead or dying. There will certainly be no round two with an XLR-V against XKRs and Porsches.
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    Almost sounds like your Audi dealership is run by the same guys who ran my BMW dealership

    The service problem that required the A4 loaner was actually on my Porsche not my Audi, the dealer sells both brands under one roof.

    I took the Porsche in two weeks ago for a routine oil change and service, it only has 13,000 miles in 3.5 years. I told the tech that the cruise control wasn't working and I wanted it fixed before the Warranty ran out next spring. Well the routine Oil change service was a deal at only $694.94 (Cayenne loaner - Panmera test drive day), and the tech said that they had to order a new instrument cluster to fix the cruise issue. One week later, the part is in, I return to get the work done (A4 loaner) and when they call me to tell me the work is done they mention a slight problem that they had.

    The tech that put the new instrument cluster in the car had to re-set the miles on the new digital dash with the actual miles that were on the car when I brought it in that morning. Well he hit the wrong button and it set it to Kilometers so my car has gone from 13K mile down to 8K miles, not too bad of a problem but the car has already been logged into their service record system with 13K miles. So they have to order another part at their expense - almost $2,000 according to them, and I have to take the car back again, kind of a hassle, they will make it up to me I was told.

    I think any service experience for any brand is always open to human error as this case was. It happens in the low end cars and the high end cars.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    After testing and looking on different colors, I highly recommend darker hues. Somehow, it shows the lines nicely without being overt, and to this person's eyes at least, the brighter colors make the car look cheap, particularly in silver.

    The interior, nicely done with premium materials, but everything goes down the drain thanks to the soap box design.... :( Btw, has anyone tried using the seat mounted controls? I'm not sure why but the controls felt cheap to the feel and touch, plus IMO it makes the seat uncomfortable to use even for a skinnier guy like me...

    I won't say much about the engine as the ones MB offer here are ridiculously tiny and underpowered 2.0 and 3.0 lt engines (the 3.0lt unit is the same engine used in C300).
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Btw, has anyone tried using the seat mounted controls? I'm not sure why but the controls felt cheap to the feel and touch, plus IMO it makes the seat uncomfortable to use even for a skinnier guy like me...

    I have no idea why MB tacked those on. You cant see them when you're actually in the seat, much less use them while driving. They sucked just as much in the old Infiniti G, and Infiniti was smart enough to get rid of them.

    Overall the interior doesn't do it for me. The coupe is better with its conventional shifter, but I can't get past the weird creases on the passenger side in the coupe. Ultimately I don't see any reason to buy an E over the upcoming 5 or A6.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Tony,

    I myself was thinking about a 2010 MB Blutec E320 but here was the deal killer for me: Run flat tires! Forget it!

    The reason the diesel version has run flat tires is to eliminate the need of a spare tire in order to accomodate that urea bag sold with MB diesels.

    Run flat tires are hideously priced here in Canada ($800 each for 18' tires) and it was run flat tires that really annoyed me when I owned my BMW 335i.

    So you asked if I have regrets that the financial discussions here are over?

    No. Not at all.

    In my very particular case almost all my time is spent with investments. All I want here in this forum is a diversion from investments. Today I am like a Lonely Maytag Repairman who is ignored by his clients. I cherish this loneliness because I know when markets go down my telephone will not leave me alone all day.

    Market indexes are up almost 60 percent and now is the least exciting time to talk about markets. Unlike exciting March when almost everything was bargain priced and worth buying.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I think any service experience for any brand is always open to human error as this case was. It happens in the low end cars and the high end cars.

    True. It is a human error and is forgiveable.

    But the frequent recurring problems with my BMW 335i was inhuman and unforgivable....well at least until I get bored with my Prius.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Uh, the coupe looks fine until I see the odd side windows. But overall I agree with you, I don't see how the E is more appealing than a 5er or an A6. That is, assuming BMW will go easy on the pig snout and Audi will refrain from making all their cars look the same (why the heck did Audi ruin the A6's nice rear end and replace it with bloated A4's :confuse: ).
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Inhuman... that reminds me of an old friend who bought an 04 Maxima the first time it came into the market. 26 unscheduled dealer visits in 1 year encouraged him (deeply) to file for lemon law.

    I dont remember all of them but I recall 10 visits on fixing the leaking "coinslot" moonroof alone. First it leaked, and then it leaked again, and again, and... well, you get the idea. Another 5 or so involved electronic glitches (how about no display at all on the center screen?). One big bummer was stuck tranny, which refused to move from P.

    Nissan finally gave him another car. First they offered a new, pre-inspected fully loaded Maxima for no extra charge. He refused and the company gave him a Murano instead. A decision he sometimes regreted a bit due to it's harsh ride (hey at least your sunroof's not leaking anymore!!!) :P :shades:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    26 unscheduled dealer visits in 1 year encouraged him (deeply) to file for lemon law.

    That's a lot of unscheduled visits! Sometimes I wonder what it actually is that causes a specific individual vehicle to be plagued with issues.

    Someone once told me that the day of the week, as well as the time of day, the car is manufactured can make a big difference in the assembly line worker's state-of-being, and if the car is built at the "worst" time, it has a greater likelihood of having issues than a car built at the "best" time of the week and day.

    I don't know if that is true or not, although it makes sense to a point, I suppose. But, there must be something that causes an individual car, regardless of brand or model, to be plagued with issues.

    They can't all be flood victims. And, a bad part would usually only cause that single issue, even if repeated, instead of many unrelated issues on the same vehicle.

    Any of you gentlemen truly know what causes an individual car to become a lemon?

    TM
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Any of you gentlemen truly know what causes an individual car to become a lemon?

    For the answer, you need to look at failure rates in the production process. Many issues are linked to disconnects between design and mfg. The U.S. auto industry continued to ignore and put off the quality inroads Asian mfgrs made on the small cars. It was easier to get quality incrementally improved on the simpler, smaller units. Later, when marquees such as Lexus, Infinity and Accura were introduced, the Quality systems already supported extremely low defect rates learned on the simpler models.

    Even the European manufacturers were untimely in addressing continuous improvements in quality in both design and content. VW is a parallel to GM, F and C afaic....sporadic at best. Until recently, BMW, Merc and Audi suffered the same perceptions which, at the end of the day, ARE reality.

    If it weren't for the Asian embracing quality as a competitive tool, we would not be seeing late improvement in the western auto companies.

    As was the case in Dewey's 335i example, one unit had multiple flaws and it seems to me the systems are not yet in place to catch/fix these problems ex-assembly line in most western companies as effectively as T or H does. They should have taken that abomination off the sales roster in Germany let alone suffer the extents of incompetent perceptions that are now burned into history and Dewey's perception of BMW.

    As for the reason for an individual lemon, it usually means a system-wide issue that allows the defects to pop up at a certain rate. IOW its not bottom up but top down thinking that allows this to continue. The Japanese work the other way around...from the ground up. Works much better if you ask me. :blush:

    Regards,
    OW
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