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Comments
You're right, & I stand corrected. It's easy to forget that only a subset of what BMW makes is available here. Sad to say, it's not the best subset.
I agree LG, and I am a member of the BMW CCA. As of now my 2008 335 will probably be my last BMW. Too many compromises for the sake of market share gains and profit growth per unit have offset the tremendous engine and a few other worthy features.
I thought it was really galling to see on the press release for their 2011 ActiveHybrid 7 which starts at over $100K, they are charging $400 for the Ipod plug. I paid the same amount for the same plug on my 335, but on their top tier car, it seems even more absurd.
They are not the same company that many of us have admired in the past. :lemon:
But c'mon let's be fair here.
Lack of diesels?
BMW has diesels in North America and yes there are rumors that will be bringing smaller diesel engines to North America. Timidity with diesels is not a BMW phenemona. That timiditly spreads among all auto marques in North America.
A computer on wheels?
Now, now and what exactly are those high end Audi and Benzes and Lexuses and every other premium marque except Lotus? Yup that's right, they are all computer on wheels.
BMW has compromises? Ofcourse they do. THey arer not Lotus. They are not going to solely focus on enthusiasts because that would be the road to extinction. BMW does not make cars like in the 1970s/80s because they are no longer in the 1970s/80s. During the 70s/80s mechanical excellence meant everything and electronic excellence meant something you see in an office and not in a car.
BMW is a suriviror and the sole survivor among independent luxury marques. Why? Because they make cars that people are willing to spend extra money on. Because they know most BMW enthusiasts are Luddites living still in the 80s with their 1987 BMW M3 watcing Jane Fonda fitness videos. Thier focus is on here and now! And that is why they are a success. They know their market is bigger than the number of people who attend this forum.
My rantings about my lemon BMW 335i is a very personal critique and should be treated with a grain of salt here since not everyone owned my BMW 335i. Blieve me I've seen my share of MB and AUdi lemons out there.
Run flat tires is an inexusable weakness with BMWs. Go to any tire store and ask the fellow who owns or works in the shop what he thinks about run flat tires and observe the smirk on his face while he tells you what he really thinks about them.
Because there is a a very small demand for it beyond this forum where everybody hates it. But even with that very small demand BMW will make humungous margins on the suckers who will buy the few X6 M vehicles out there.
Nothing wrong with that. If you were in business and customers wanted to buy things that gives you fat profit margins per vehicle would you refuse to sell it? I wouldn't! And BMW certainly wouldn't
Despite my criticisms about h large hybrid luxury sedans I think it is smart that they are introducing them if they can make a big profit by selling them at ludicrously high prices. Smart for the automaker but certainly not smart for a buyer of such hybrid vehicles.
IMO, the 135i is more about the drive than the fluff. If any of you haven't taken a 135i with a 6-speed manual out for a spin, then you owe it to yourself to do so. After that, you might actually give BMW credit for building it... and find out why it got such rave reviews... and why it is the car I choose to own and drive.
TM
On the other side, there's the hatchback, which I tried and wasn't impressed with. BMW pushed the 1er into the small car territory competing with Audi A3 and MB B-class, where it pretty much flops in terms of practicality.
So as a niche product the BMW 1-series is really something, but as a mass production car (aka the hatchback)..............
All luxury cars could be accused of overpricing options.
Yuz getz wahtz you payz for! Here is a snip it of a recent Panamer review.
The six-digit price syndrome has crept quietly into the luxury-car market in the past few years. It is difficult to keep the price of a BMW 750Li or Mercedes S550, with a few options, under $100,000. Still, I was put off by the test car's $122,975 sticker. Granted, it had a lot of added features, but its overall feel was not commensurate with the price. Its performance was brisk but not breathtaking. The interior is luxurious, but gimmicky with its array of buttons. Its exterior styling is strong, but far from pretty -- I can think of no contemporary cars that share the Panamera's humpback aesthetic.
Porsche is known for focusing more on its cars' engineering than its looks. But beauty is a reasonable expectation for customers who pay this much for a car. Its lack of it is yet another way the Panamera misses the mark.
Porsce Sedan
Now I know the 335i could outmaneuver this big baby, despite the RFT's and no oil dip stick!
Regards,
OW
To an extent that's true, and MB was actually leading the way towards over-computerized madness a few years ago, but I think BMW now firmly holds that title. To be clear, when I say "computer with wheels", I'm not talking about NAV or media systems, LCD screens, etc. The M5 has a bunch of dumb functions that only seem to serve to make the car worse. Not one of the seven adjustable transmission settings make the transmission smooth or enjoyable to use. Maybe rather than giving the driver seven transmission choices and 400, 500, and 500 "Sport" engine power choices, BMW should've spent the time making the car as good as the one it replaced. That car had no transmission aggressiveness controls and no power settings. The power settings control was the throttle.
The Jag XFR still gets it. The M5 just doesn't. It's so obsessed with computers and options and choices that it forgot how to be enjoyable to drive.
I pretty much agree with the Panamera review, I drove one about a month ago which stickered about $120K as well. I was actually very impressed with the way the car felt, more than I thought I would be. But thinking about the $120K price combined with having to cringe every time you look at the rear of the car makes it a tough proposition for me.
I also agree with your point that the lux cars have high option prices, my IPod point on the 7 was more around - when will this stop? If BMW is going to charge the same $400 for a cheap IPod wire to people who buy a 128i and people who will buy their $106K Hybrid 7, that doesn't show a lot of respect towards their best customers.
Gotta luv it!
Regards,
OW
If Motorsport wants to be another AMG, that's certainly their prerogative. If I recall correctly though, BMW deliberately kept the M badge off of the old X5 4.6is and 4.8is because they didn't want it to be like the performance brand that will slap their name on the R-class and G-class to make a quick buck selling over-powered super trucks to idiots.
I don't think Audi would ever do a Q7-RS. They could prove me wrong of course, but at this point it still seems like the RS brand is purely about enthusiast machines, which is what M used to be.
Different configuartion settings which makes the driver more in control in terms of choosing what types of modes of driving styles is this new phenemona that exists not only in a BMW M5 but also in the more humble machine called the Subaru WRX sti. It's stupid I agree but welcome to the 21st century this is the "it thing" in terms of driving premium priced cars which are not neccessarily more fun to drive than more humble and less expensive and more dated performance cars.
The best configuaration for any performance car is a manual stick. The computer guys will never be able to figure out a better configuation then that (DSG eat your heart out).
Having said that enen in my Prius I sit there wondering what the hell is all the hullabaloo about the new EV mode button. I can drive my car on battery power by the way I press the pedals and the way I choose to drive without even pressing that silly EV button.
Also there is a "B setting on the transmission" that uses the brake to recharge the battery. I haven't read the literature in depth but this choice IMO is totally useless when I can choose to engage the brake myself by pressing the brake whenever I go downhill and that in itself will recharge the battery. Why on earth do I need to choose "B" when there is a brake pedal to begin with?
Pardon me for not correcting some of the grammitical mistakes above since right now I am pressed for time.
It's not that I'm necessarily against the idea entirely, I just think that the core aspects of the car should be worked out first. Recent Audis work with or without Drive Select because the transmission and throttle response have been properly sorted by the engineers first. The Q5 isn't unbearable to drive unless you have DS in comfort mode, but that option is there if you want it.
BMW should've first figured out how to make the SMG usable in daily traffic, and then worked on the seven settings you can customize.
The A3 TDI is already available, and it won the "LA Auto Show Green Car" award. The Q5 Hybrid should be arriving mid-2010. So, it is on its way, though a Q5 TDI would be much better than any hybrid.
Don't forget the Nissan GT-R. Such cars are built to appeal to the "Playstation generation." I am part of the older sect of that generation, somewhat, but I despise all that gee-whiz gimcrackery. Some people just love tinkering with stuff. Even in the computer market, there is a whole sect dedicated to overclocking and overclocking tools and equipment. Those guys spend more time trying to beat an overclock benchmark than actually using the computers! :confuse:
Anyway, just give me a powerful car with a smooth, responsive engine (V8 preferably), a manual transmission and a well sorted out suspension, and I'm happy. No need for a bazillion buttons and dials to change this and that or "active roll stabilization." Just build a good car!!
This... from AUTOCAR... link title
Greetings from Malibu! :shades:
TM
Nissan’s GT-R, often known as “Godzilla,” is already a force to be reckoned with as far as fast cars are concerned. Now, a leaked report published in Japan is suggesting that Nissan has plans to increase horsepower with the aid of an electric motor.
Japan’s Nissan brought us the current GT-R, and now Japan’s Best Car Magazine has brought us a glimpse of what the next GT-R just might have in store.
According to the magazine, the next GT-R will come equipped with an “electric motor capable to deliver around 160 hp but also with a powerful gasoline engine which will deliver around 440 hp.”
It appears as if Nissan will be tapping into the performance properties made possible by electric engines, much like Lexus has been doing with its larger hybrid sedans. For instance, the large GS 450 hybrid sedan is capable of a very respectable five second zero-to-60 time – compliments of a more performance-oriented gasoline-electric hybrid system.
No official specifications have been confirmed by Nissan at this time.
For goodness sakes, improved the batteries already! I want 4 in-wheel electric motors with 160 hp each...I can almost TASTE it!
LG has already specked out the ICE engine surround sound amplification engineering!
Regards,
OW
Holy Smokes! :surprise: Something even more insane to look forward to.
I saw a white GTR yesterday... it was very impressive, although I think a black GTR could be quite menacing.
For goodness sakes, improved the batteries already! I want 4 in-wheel electric motors with 160 hp each...I can almost TASTE it!
Yes indeed... once the battery technology is truly solid, then all hell will break loose. A new era of muscle cars will be upon us all. Can't wait!
TM
A Few Glitches
Regards,
OW
Obviously, when the battery technology allows for genuine quick charging, say on the order of 5-10 minutes, everything will change. We might even see charging stations just as we now see gas stations.
Looking not quite so far ahead, I promise you I would buy a product like the Volkswagen L1 if it became available. It makes the most sense to me. A true hybrid with a small clean and efficient TDI diesel engine married to an electric motor.
TM
It's amazing to me... Acura has sytematically ruined the MDX... the front appearance is now uglier than ever!
If I could, I would fire the people responsible for this. They are asleep at the switch... brain dead. :sick:
It's so perfectly clear that the Acura folks should come up with a whole new design theme for their entire line... otherwise they limit their own sales... it's self-inflicted injury. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot!
I sincerely ask the folks at Acura to reply to this: Is it smarter to defend and attempt to market a hideous design, or lose some pride and go back to the drawing board and design a totally revamped good-looking theme for Acura vehicles?
TM
TL sales are down 29% YTD compared to last year, so its probably safe to say that taking one of their best looking cars and turning it into one of the ugliest cars on the road was not a "smart move". The RL has completely collapsed. They will struggle to sell 2,000 this year. 2,000 cars is a bad month for the 5 series. The TSX and MDX did better this November compared to last, but overall Acura sales are still down nearly 30% compared to last year.
Since Acura decided to reset the focus of the brand down market and scrap most of the stuff they were working on, the current crop of eyesores will be expected to sustain them well into the next decade. Acura's total reliance on technology to cover for weak designs and pedestrian platforms is also starting to hurt. Their multimedia/NAV setup is the same as it was in 2005, and its starting to look very old these days when pretty much the entire rest of the luxury industry has recently rolled out brand new interfaces. Not good.
Their marketing seems well done and exploits the idea that an Audi buyer is self-assured and doesn't need external validation when he buys a car. All in all, they seem to be positioned well for the "new normal" of non-conspicuous consumption. Sure, the dealerships don't have the same impressive plants that MB and Bimmer dealers do but think of it this way: the Audi dealer body probably has less debt to service than the dealers that were forced to build Taj Mahals during the boom years and should be able to withstand a downturn better. In New England some of the all glass, 40,000 square foot Bimmer and Benz dealerships that I see must cost a fortune to heat and cool.
This is exactly the image Audi has been promoting for themselves in Europe for decades now—which on the other hand has leaded to Audi cars being the relative majority in many neighborhoods. A contradiction in itself, but marketing is nothing without taking into account emotions and feelings.
Here in Spain Audi uses the same dealers as VW does most of the time. Is it like this in NA?
Regards,
Jose
That's not really true. Audi NA is working on setting up more exclusive stores, but currently a significant majority of Audi shops are shared with somebody, usually Porsche. My dealer is an Audi/Porsche shop.
Years ago, as dealerships became larger and larger and started carrying numerous brands, some of the manufacturers insisted that their cars be separated from the others. Some dealers accomplished this by having totally separate facilities, while others provided adjacent showrooms within the same dealership, each displaying its own brand.
This whole approach to having excusive showrooms and/or facilities has been expensive and has substantially contributed to increased overhead. There is little benefit to increasing a dealer's operating costs. It adds price pressures which ultimately hurt the consumers in the sales and service departments.
Given the recent economic trends, I think we will see a return to the older days of brand consolidation and mixing, instead of so much exclusiveness. It is so much smarter, from an economic perspective, IMO, for a dealer to be able to minimize the overhead and to combine brands within the same facility.
TM
Given the recent economic trends, I think we will see a return to the older days of brand consolidation and mixing, instead of so much exclusiveness. It is so much smarter, from an economic perspective, IMO, for a dealer to be able to minimize the overhead and to combine brands within the same facility.
A multi-brand shop can definitely work - provided there's some sort of synergy there and not an abundance of product and price overlap. The local Subaru/Acura shop for example makes a lot of sense, especially with Acura's recent switch to AWD. Porsche and Audi also work well together, which is probably why there are so many Porsche/Audi stores. I'm not sure that VW/Audi makes as much sense, at least in the US.
A serious problem that GM had with exclusive stores is that Pontiac and Saturn dealers were demanding minivans and such to compete with the Chevy dealer down the street, which led to GM sticking five different badges on the same car or truck.
Understandable. Over here there is two sorts of Audi stores, depending on the neighborhood. That is, either VW/Audi stores with separated show rooms to each line, or dedicated Porsche & high-rank Audi showrooms. I think it is a clever brand policy. It must be taken into account that Audi best seller is AWD A4—A3 being also popular.
Regards,
Jose
740i and 740Li
Now, the '92 740i A/T 0 -60mph took 10.3 seconds. I'm sure twin turbos pushing 4,500 lbs/2,041kg. will take a shade less time. :sick:
Regards,
OW
Seems the relationship is legendary.
TM
Thanks,
Chintan
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Regards,
OW
BTW, crazy gorgeous day here today... temps hit the 70's... put the top down in the 135i. Great little car.
TM
After seeing the e-Tron, it's a little hard to get excited about a 9+ second, 2 ton electric 1 series. Since unlike the Volt these cars cannot continue on past their battery range and are thus basically toys, you might as well go all out with a sub 5 second sports car.
Over here in unemployment-ravaged NJ, we are waiting a pending snow storm..no 'verte's this weekend!
Regards,
OW
Well... driving range is essential from my personal perspective. I don't care if the statistics show that over 80% of drivers don't go over 40 miles a day. As I posted recently, the whole essence of driving for me is mobility and freedom, as well as an engaging driving dynamic. I've got to be able to drive as far as I want, and enjoy it as well.
That doesn't mean I have to be speeding or anything. I do think a hybrid (which inherently provides driving range) could still be fun to drive if the handling is decent enough and the interface is engaging enough... add to that a good sound system and the experience might be just fine for a fuel-efficient vehicle.
But... driving range is a must for me.
TM
(Yes, I know about that mini w/ the motors in the wheels.)
Something about steel wheels on steel rails comes to mind. "Frictionless" bearings fit into the category.
Funilly enough, there's another tract somewhere in the green TV world that touts 235 miles per gallon. Maybe train efficiency has improved most of 100% since that one was done, or for trains, maybe the rules have changed. Perhaps the East Anglia folks have been involved..
I squared B. That'd be ignorance is bliss. (not talking about you tayl0rd, BTW)
Looking ahead to 2010, I wonder how many more brands will fall away. Chrysler has the potential for some interesting challenges to stay alive for one example. Jaguar/LR is another brand that could be hit hard in the current economy.
Regards,
OW
Overall the gts would cost a little more, but it has the stick,(which I love, and wife doesn't prefer), more power and as previously mentioned, better reliability. Also has the hard-drive based nav. My wife has a loaded '04 Sienna with 100K, which she claims she'll keep for another 100K, except my third car is a '01bmw M3 conv, stick. So, when I'm driving it 8 or so months a year, she'll be driving the newer suv. She'd prefer the automatic on the X5. Again, similar deals, the bimmer around $5K less overall or so.
Also, I have a 15 year old son who will be driving soon, so he'll start with the van, and we'll see after that. The rest of the picture is that I currently drive a audi A6Q, 2.7T, with a stick, and 127K on it, love it but needs cats for $2-3K. Funny, I used to drive the M3 less, but as the audi aged I've changed and drive it more. Have a feeling that when kid is driving, I'll be driving it 'full-time'., although tempted to fix audi for him, know the history, teach him to drive a stick, and still short $4 between repairs ($3k) and current value($2K) total $5Kish.
Have followed both vehicles for a couple of weeks, and not sure who if and who may get more aggressive as the end of the year approaches, may help push me in a direction.
Any ideas, suggestions or comment are appreciated. Want to pull this of B4 eoy.
Happy and healthy to all!!
Thanks
I6 =218hp + E = 40hp
Regards.
OW
If you like the idea of a big-block Mercedes-Benz, better buy an AMG now.
Regards,
OW
TM
Turbos are back in a big way. It makes sense, using sequential and variable vane technology, most of the traditional drawbacks are eliminated, and the latest manufacturing technologies and direct injection allows for much higher compression ratios than what used to be possible with a turbo.
I can't imagine that the new engines won't be an improvement over both the old blown 5.5 and the current 6.2. I don't see any reason to complain.
your`re asking a very good question at a very wrong forum.
I dont know if you`ve noticed this by now but most if not all participants here are not too keen about performance SUVs like the Cayenne GTS or BMW X5 with the M sport package.
So if you want an honest answer to your question expect it to be anything but those two vehicles you are considering.
My own choice would be to drive your wife`s practical Sienna than a sport packaged SUV with race track pretensions. Yes, yes I know you hate my suggestion and you probably think I am clued out in terms of your``driving wants`` and that may very well be the case.
You know what you want . You already made up your mind on what kind of vehicle you want (high performance SUV) . An SUV with a stick excites you.There are wonderful compelling price deals for that kind of vehicle. Go for it!!