Will Mercury soon be joining Plymouth and Oldsmobile?

bigo08

What do you guys the future of Mercury looks like?

rockylee

I guess that appears to be up to the new Boeing CEO :confuse:

Maybe since he loves Lexus cars so much he will make it a Lexus-ish brand ? :P

Rocky

bigo08

If any thing Lincoln should become the Lexus-ish one

rockylee

Well some of you guys say Lincoln, is the next Acura. :P

Rocky

john_324

...of killing off Mercury. It has no unique vehicles of its own, it has no dealer network of its own (all Lincoln-Mercury) and frankly, what's the point? Slightly more luxurious Ford vehicles? Does that really merit its own division? Esp. when the generation that still remembers/respects the division's "glory days" is not going to be buying many cars soon...

If anything, Ford could keep the name as an uplevel trim line for certain vehicles...say the Ford Five Hundred "Mercury" edition. Look good on a badge on the rear of the car. And leave the serious luxury to a reinvigorated Lincoln with (mostly) unique vehicles and its own dealerships.

anythngbutgm

Ford should follow Saturns gameplan and import a bunch of Euro cars for sale here in the states. Heck, bring a few Aussie musclecars to mix things up a bit. There should be ZERO SUV's in the lineup as not to rob sales from the Ford brand.

Anything besides what they are doing now. :sick:

bumpy

is as a welfare program for Lincoln dealers.

bumpy

Bingo. Make Mercury a channel for the foreign Fords that are too expensive to sell as Fords here: The Fiesta, Euro Focus, Mondeo, and Galaxy, plus the Australian Falcon sedan and ute, Fairlane, and Territory. That's a whole division lineup right there.

andys120

"Glory days" for Mercury were the Lead Sled era 1949-51, even us "older" guys can barely remember them.

jkr2106

I agree the Malibu is one amazing car; the quality you feel from the drivers seat (pressing the buttons, the *thud* of the door,...) is simply astonishing compared to the previous generation. It's wierd, but I feel like Chevy will eventually buck perception and be seen as an equal to Toyandassan, but Ford just doesn't seem like they will ever change consumers' minds. I see too many gimmicks (Sync, panoramic roofs, Edge 'sport' package,...) and not enough product. GM pumped On*Star for so many years, and did it sell any cars? My guess is about two. Only since the 900s, Lambdas, CTS, and Malibu have come out have the attitudes of the media changed.

So lets get Mercury some product!

[Deleted User]

Those were very good days, but so were the 60's and early to mid 70s. The 1966 Cyclone was far prettier than its Ford analog. The 1967 Cougar shared no body panels with the Mustang and had a wonderful look all its own.The 1969 Marauder was a great niche vehicle. The 1970 Montego and Cyclone were pretty hot for the time, and the 1972 Montego (again sharing no panels with the Torino) was a styling coup. The 1970s Capri was a great car for the time, and Ford had nothign like it. Sales at Mercury routinely topped 400,000, 500.000 and even reached more than 700,000 at times.

The 1973s began a downturn when Mercury (and Ford as well) could not integrate 5 mph bumpers into the designs without making them look like battering rams added onto already exaggerated length hoods.

The original Sable reversed that awful trend a bit by giving the Taurus buyer an extra dose of class. Even the Topaz had a different roofline than the Tempo, and thereby looked better.

The 91 GM was so much better looking than the 91 Crown Vic that the CV eventually adopted the GM styling. Since then, Mercurys have been so close to the comparable Ford model (same doors, same roof, same dash)that it really begs the question what in heck have they been thinking? I say kill it. Even Plymouth and Oldsmobile didn't sink this low before bowing out.

andre1969

actually did have some good years in the 70's, although most people today would rather forget those cars. However, they did have reasonable success with the Cougar once it grew up to be a Monte Carlo type personal luxury coupe. The mammoth Marquis models also sold fairly well once fuel started flowing again, and when GM downsized their big cars it actually took the pressure off of them for a bit, as there were still people who wanted their big cars to be plus-sized. The Zephyr was reasonably successful too. All in all, Mercury was strong enough to pull down around 700,000 or so sales annually in the late 70's.

I think the biggest problem though, is that big cars were always Mercury's strong suit. They would give you a car that was a lot more "important" looking than a Ford, but for not a lot more money. This worked especially well for them when they tried to ape the Lincoln style.

Big cars just aren't strong sellers anymore though, and it seems like every attempt they've made to try molding Mercury into a more sporty, upscale, youthful brand seem to fail.

euphonium

will be the Genesis of the Town Car. Wixom is being closed and the CAW can read and understand English.

KCRam

Bingo. Make Mercury a channel for the foreign Fords that are too expensive to sell as Fords here

Been there, done that, didn't work. Remember Merkur and the last (Australian) Capri?

Mercury and Buick are in the same boat... they really have no competition besides each other. If Ford really wants Mercury to survive, they need more than just "padded Fords" or "discount Lincolns".

1. Ford is supposed to kill the Crown Vic and Town Car next year - I say leave the Grand Marquis. It still sells, it's cheap/easy to build, and there is still a market for it.

2. I think it's a mistake to have the Milan in the same showroom as the Zephyr/MKZ. The Milan would be the better choice in terms of value, but FoMoCo is so afraid of Cadillac right now, they feel that they have to have Lincoln match model-for-model, thus the MKZ against the CTS. Fact is, Caddy has a huge head start, and Lincoln probably won't catch them. Ditch the Z, put some of its equipment in an upper-trim Milan.

3. Lose the Mountaineer. (Buick should drop the Rainier too.)

4. Move the Freestyle body to Mercury and drop the Mariner as well. Ford has the Edge which better suits their marketing. A Mercury-badged Freestyle gives them a unique crossover, and a good challenger for the Pacifica and Rendezvous..

5. Give the Montego a real engine... better than the Five Hundred (which also needs more ponies). A big V6 for the 500, a small V8 for the Montego.

6. Aggressively market the Monterey against the Chrysler T&C.

explorerx4

btw.. what are the law enforcement agencies going to buy from now on, if the c-v is discontinued?

KCRam

A few departments around here (north NJ) are picking up Dodge Chargers... usually departments that have a highway in their jurisdiction. One even has unmarked Chargers.

merc1

Ford should follow Saturns gameplan and import a bunch of Euro cars for sale here in the states. Heck, bring a few Aussie musclecars to mix things up a bit. There should be ZERO SUV's in the lineup as not to rob sales from the Ford brand.

Bingo! Someone suggested this years ago and I still think it is good idea. There is but one problem, well two actually. First off the current L-M dealer setup couldn't possibly sell European themed vehicles and secondly the name "Mercury" would need to be changed. It says "old" folks cars like Oldsmobile or Plymouth did. This might not be as big a problem as the Town Car/Grand Marquis selling dealer body. The Mercury name could just be transformed like GM is seemingly going to do with Saturn, but those L-M sales folks are not going to relate much less sell hip Euro style cars to younger folks. It probably wouldn't be as bad as Merkur was, but still.

I think part of the reason Olds failed is because people just weren't willing to give the brand a chance based on what they thought an "Oldsmobile" to be, an old stuffy throwback. Saturn is much newer and can change course. Mercury on the other hand is twinned with an equally prehistoric brand and they've got a dullard image with younger folks. Ford isn't even close to having funds to re-cast Mercury and/or seperate it from Lincoln by either product (the right way to do it) or image/marketing.

M

andys120

btw.. what are the law enforcement agencies going to buy from now on, if the c-v is discontinued?

The NH State Highway Patrol just got a new shipment of very sinister looking black Dodge Chargers. Chargers are being adopted by local Pds here as well.

I read that NYPD Chargers will have V8s for Highway Patrol while the regular patrol cars get V6s.

andre1969

is that they're not going to be as durable or cheap/simple to fix as the Crown Vic. While they're RWD, which might give them some handling advantages over FWD police models like the Impala, Intrepid, the old Lumina/Grand Prix, and Taurus, and the Hemi isn't going to have too much trouble apprehending the suspects, I don't think these things are going to be able to take the abuse that a Crown Vic can. Forget about hopping curbs, pushing stalled cars out of the way, throwing a ton of gear in the cavernous trunk. And a Charger isn't going to have the GVWR to even take four chunky cops to Dunkin Donuts like a Crown Vic would.

Once the Crown Vic goes away, the cops are going to need a Charger to catch the speeders, a Five Hundred to haul them away, and an Expedition or Yukon for curb hopping and pushing stalled cars off the road! :P On the plus side, a Charger might not blow up if it gets rear-ended at 73 mph...

rockylee

Do you think the PD's will buy the big RWD Impala for police cars ? I do ! GM, will sell alot to PD's IMHO.

Rocky

[Deleted User]

I agree. The Crown Vic is dead, once the new RWD Impala is here, and the word is out about the Charger. The CV doesn't have that much rear seat legroom to begin with for such a large sedan (its wheelbase is half a foot shorter than the Charger's). After awhile, a pterodactil either evolves or dies. Looks like the CV intends to die.

rockylee

I always figured the Ford 500 would of steped up to the plate. I could see them as police cars, can't anyone else ?

OTOH the Impala, could be a very good handling RWD car, with just the right amount of size.

I agree it's ashame the CV died a death. I'm somewhat surprised Ford didn't make an attempt to put it at least on life support for a few more years and refresh it. :surprise:

Rocky

andys120

I always figured the Ford 500 would of steped up to the plate. I could see them as police cars, can't anyone else ?

Nope, there's no V8 and no RWD.

rockylee

What, I thought there was a V-8. Like the 4.6 ? :surprise: Really, I must of missed the boat on these cars. You can get em' with AWD right ? I guess fuel would be expensive for the localities.

rocky

[Deleted User]

Until next spring, there is only a 3.0 liter V6. One of the many reasons it did not take the sedan world by storm.

john_324

Five Hundred should offer a 4.6 V8 option, with required AWD package.

That would make one bad sedan, suitable for police and taxi use... :shades:

andre1969

has the interior room and trunk space to make a decent police car, but I still doubt if it's beefy enough. Just as a rough indication, a Crown Vic weighs about 4000-4200 pounds. But the GVWR on them these days is up to around 5500-5600 pounds. They're full-frame, sturdy, and beefy, and can take a pounding. In contrast, I think the GVWR on a V-8 Charger or 300C is only about 4900 pounds. Yet the car itself is still about two tons! My old '81 Gran Fury had a GVWR of about 5100 pounds, but the car itself only weighed about 3500.

I dunno what the GVWR of a Ford 500 is, but I doubt if it has the 1400-1500+ pound spread over curb weight like a Crown Vic or the older more "traditional" police cars did.

A 500 might make a good patrol car, or be good for serving summonses, running people to court and jail, going out to break up domestic disputes and doing donut runs and such, but it's not going to be the kind of car that is easily pressed into heavy-duty, abusive service. Putting a 4.6 under the hood, or even this new 3.5 V-6, will help out with performance, but I have a feeling that the body and chassis still aren't going to be strong enough to hold up.

If nothing else, I can imagine that they're going to be having a much higher turnover with these newer police cars, because they're just going to get beat-up much more quickly.

As for fuel, police cars tend to guzzle anyway, regardless of engine. They spend a lot of time idling, for one thing. For another, they have beefed up components in the engine and transmission, and bigger brakes, which does help out their durability to a degree, but will also sap fuel economy. I remember my Gran Fury was EPA-rated at 13/15, while a civilian model was 16/22. I think an '89 Caprice police car was rated at 14/20, while the civilian V-8 was around 17/24. I dunno though, maybe they've closed the gap with the newer cars?

rockylee

Yep, it would at least be competitive. I like the looks of the five-hundred barge.

Rocky

[Deleted User]

Rocky, you sure have strange taste for someone under 60. Are you SURE you are a young guy??

The 500 may have a lot going for it, but looks aren't its strength (plain to dumpy, no one even looks at it at auto shows). The suits at Ford kept hyping how its more "understated" (read boring) look would last longer than the more in-you-face looks of the 300.

Well, 300 sales have finally leveled off and sunk a bit, but September sales of the 500 are down 33% from last September (not a banner month even then) and the Freestyle wagon version is down 47%. They just blew it with that timid effort. For every person that likes the look, there are dozens who don't even see the thing when it is right in front of them.

It is the quintessential anonymous car. Some people may like that car-as-appliance rationality. It just isn't going to turn Ford around like the 427 styling would have.

andre1969

I went to a Ford dealership to look at a Fusion, but the salesguy tried to talk me into a 500. I dunno why...I'm 36 and don't look particularly old. But he did see me drive up in an Intrepid, so maybe he thought I wanted something comparably sized.

Anyway, I told him that I just didn't like the looks of the 500. IMO it's kind of like an old man's Passat. But then, the Passat seemed to have "matured" a bit with the latest restyle too.

john_324

Same thing happened to me...I had dropped my car off for some service, and while waiting for the shuttle, started talking with a salesguy who was standing around out front. After telling him I liked the Fusion, but the lack of manual transmission on the V6 model bugged me, he asks "would you be interested in the 500? We have a bunch here if you want to test-drive..."

I guess they're doing whatever they can to sell them, but how much of a longshot is it that someone who's just lamented the lack of a manual transmission in a car is going to be wowed by the 500? And what made it odder was that he knew what I was driving as well...the conversation opener was "what year is your Mustang?"

bigo08

Rocky, you sure have strange taste for someone under 60. Are you SURE you are a young guy??


Im 17 and i like looks of the 500

[Deleted User]

That's just weird. Beyond the beyonds. (And do you like full-cut Levis too??)

rockylee

Rocky, you sure have strange taste for someone under 60.

Well I might be a distant relative to lemko. I kinda like the cars he does and he's a yong guy also.

Rocky

rockylee

Thank-you.... bigo

Rocky

prosa

When it comes to police cars, sheer speed isn't as vital a consideration as it once was, as police departments are trying to avoid high-speed chases whenever possible.

Getting back to Mercury, has the plan to position it as a "chick car" failed? I've noticed that almost all Mercury TV ads continue to use women.

savetheland

They basically position Mercury similar to GM's Saturn. But Saturn is a more upscale car than say Chevy while Mercury almost undistinguishable from Ford.

[Deleted User]

Maybe Saturn intends to be more upscale, with the import of more Opels, etc. However, it's been a boring appliance in the past...mainly noted for good dealership treatment and no haggle prices.

Mercury needs Ford of Europe products. The line-up there is terrific, and if these were rebadged as Mercurys, they could legitimately sell for more $$ than Fords.

Mercury's mistake in the past was bringing in products no one wanted (the Merkur was the wrong car for the wrong time, and the 1990s Capri was a mediocre entry in the very limited 2 seater market). Think instead the 1970s Capri (a runaway success until Ford neglected to significantly update it) with a varied group of well-engineered stablemates.

lemko

...and I liked its styling a lot more than that year's Crown Victoria. People often mistook it for a Lincoln when they saw the front end. I also felt it was put together a lot better than a Crown Vic. I did consider another Grand Marquis right around the time I bought my Seville STS. The car I looked at was a new 2002 Grand Marquis LS Ultimate - in other words, the most loaded, upscale version of the car. I was disappointed as they seemed to cheap out on the quality of the car. It didn't feel as tight as my '89 and my 8 year-old base Cadillac DeVille with 96K miles on it had far less squeaks and rattles.

savetheland

The article in attached link is about new direction for Mercury division and it confirm what I said in my previous post - Ford wants to make it similar to Saturn. It appears that they actually attract customers who otherwise would not consider Ford products, like those who own VWs or other sophisticated foreign brands. Interior in new Mariner revealed in Miami recently is different from other Mercurys and supposed to be different from new Escape which will be introduced later.

Main difference I see is the cool new ice-blue instrument lighting instead of traditional green and new central panel where they got rid of this horrible cheap radio and climate control.

"We do sell people out of Subarus and Volkswagens," Lemley said. "The Mercury customer is not a clone of the Ford customer."

So I come to conclusion that Mercury has a solid foundation in Ford. If they replace it with Volvo they will just sell less cars and will not attract new customers.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061006/AUTO01/610060343/1148-

xcon

I am 14, and I want a 500. Awsome car, we rented one when our Chevy was in the shop, and it was so awsome. :shades:

[Deleted User]

And whst is so awesome about it?? Maybe you could clue in all the folks who are not now buying it...

rockylee

The brand Edsel Ford founded takes a new direction with reinvented Mariner and Mariner Hybrid vehicles.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061006/AUTO01/610060343/1148- /AUTO01

Rocky

derrado1

Believe it or not, when I was a young'un (not too long ago), I tried to convince my mother into buying an early Kia or a Proton.

Thankfully, as I've gotten older, my tastes have refined considerably. I might have fallen head over heels for a 500 when I was younger, but I wouldn't now. I can see its merits (big size, inoffensive styling), but I'd rather have a Charger or Avalon.

I know this is going to sound horrible to some of you, but I correct everybody's spelling. It's spelt "awesome", xcon. I'm terribly pedantic and I get ribbed for it but things should be spelt correctly.

[Deleted User]

Here in the US, we usually write "spelled."

rockylee

LOL

Rocky :P

euphonium

Are you pedantic about your grammar and sentence structure?

wideglide

Thankfully, as I've gotten older, my tastes have refined considerably. I might have fallen head over heels for a 500 when I was younger, but I wouldn't now. I can see its merits (big size, inoffensive styling), but I'd rather have a Charger or Avalon.

An Avalon??? That's way more bland and boring than the 500! FWIW, I think the 500 isn't bad looking, for a boring family sedan. They did a good job stealing/copying styling cues from Audi/VW. Okay, a fair job.

Why the heck don't they just bring the Australian Falcon?!?

derrado1

Both are correct. Take a look in your dictionary if you don't believe me.

Funny that I get ribbed for correcting somebodys spelling. I really don't care what you guys think. I just hate it when people misspell something and continue doing so. Eventually, somebody has got to correct them. Now, can we get back on topic before the moderators instigate a time-out?

The Avalon's more powerful and at least more distinctive looking. I like the interior of it as well. Looks are subjective, though.

Wow. Two seperate points in one post. I wish everybody did that... *cough*

[Deleted User]

Yes, spelt is correct, sweetie. However, that wasn't exactly my point. Spelt has another meaning--in addition to the obscure one that you point out is correct--so I prefer like most people to say (and write) spelled. Just call me a dead horse beater.

Now, what was the problem with the Charger, other than it's ugly?

wideglide

Now, what was the problem with the Charger, other than it's ugly?

Isn't that enough? Plus it has 4 doors, which is not what a Charger was about! I wish they would have gone with the original Charger concept they had shown in 1999. It had 4 doors, too, but at least looked like a Charger. For those who haven't seen it, take a look:

1999 Charger Concept