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Will Mercury soon be joining Plymouth and Oldsmobile?



  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes, I think the Charger would have been a bigger hit than the Challenger they have settled on. The Challenger was a righteous muscle car in its time, but was an also-ran up against the Mustang, Camarom, Barracuda and Firebird. Be interesting to see how it does this time. But certainly with the introduction of "4 door coupes" (Mercedes, VW) the Charger concept would have been timely.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Mercury's future is questionable. With Lincoln getting versions of the Edge (MKX), Fusion (MKZ), and 2009 Fairlane and with sales of the Panthers continually declining and no definite plans for an update and the possibility of closing the St Thomas plant around 2012, it's hard to see a future for Mercury. Also, it does appear (based upon a recent Automotive News article) that Ford of Europe and Ford of North America will begin co-developing cars in the B and C class (Fiesta, Focus, possibly Mondeo/Fusion) in the 2010 to 2012 time frame, so selling European Fords as Mercury is unlikely.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Ford has really, really screwed up with Mercury, but there appears to be no move afoot to deep six it. Too many very expensive lawsuits would result. Lincoln dealers can't just hook up with Volvo or Mazda for example in the same way that Lincoln and Mercury coexist now.

    As for Ford Europe, it will be several years minimum before any of the cars you mention will be the same here and there. The Fusion and the 2007 Mondeo are both new designs and they share nothing. The Mondeo or a derivative of it could easily be a Mercury.

    In fact, the thing could eventually be built here. And even if Ford does get it together to have the Ka, Fiesta and Focus the same here as there, Ford has many other European and Asian models that would interest customers here.

    But Mercury still stumbles. The Meta One and Cougar concepts were killed before further development. Ford will keep the Freestyle, which even with a new grill will continue to sink in the marketplace. The Meta on the other hand, had some flair and a proposed deisel-electric hybrid. Still, those fat station wagon things like the Freestyle, the Cadillac SRX, the Pacifica, and the Mercedes R Class are all sales disappointments. For some reason, they don't appeal like the other crossovers, or even the traditional SUV. So maybe its best the Meta idea is gone.

    But SOMETHING new please, not just a very few Fords with mascara and more jewelry.
  • derrado1derrado1 Posts: 194
    Lincoln is really expanding its range and moving downmarket. Not necessarily a bad thing (except maybe for heritage) as it's better to be competitive in the near-luxury segment than hopeless in the luxury segment. I just wonder what, say, the 2009 line-up will be like. MKZ, MKS, MKX, Navigator, (proposed Fairlane-based crossover), etc etc.

    The only reason they're not killing Mercury is because
    a) They make a profit as it's cheap to engineer a Mercury (Ford + chrome = $$$)
    b) Lincoln dealers wouldn't survive without Mercury. If Lincoln expands its line-up, it could be bye-bye Mercury down the track.

    It's no great loss, really. I mean, Oldsmobile had the 442, the '66 Toronado, the Aurora, and a hundred years of heritage. Plymouth didn't have skeletons in its closet (although it was a shadow of its former self come the 80's). What has Mercury got? At a stretch, the '67 Cougar and the '49 "Lead Sled" (that was Mercury, right?). Neither of those were particuarly original, groundbreaking, unique or influential.

    I hope they expand Lincoln's line-up a fair bit. The MKZ and MKX look great, although they're not breaking any new ground. Lincoln's also channeling its heritage (especially in interior and exterior details), and will hopefully continue this (maybe they can put that Continental concept into production?). They're certainly stepping away from the blandness of, say, the LS, and doing their own thing (the MKZ and MKX don't look like any other near-luxury cars, for example, and the '07 Navigator is....umm, unique.) Hopefully, a successful, rejuvenated Lincoln will emerge, and FMC can push Mercury away.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    In many areas, it seems that the Lincoln-Mercury dealers are merging with the Ford dealers. Is Ford quietly doing what GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC? If so, this could be the way to eventually get rid of Mercury.

    But when Ford eventually shuts down the St. Thomas plant, I think Mercury's lineup will be nothing more than the Mariner, Milan, and Montego.
  • Here is a link OC01ARCHIVE

    I personally think this strategy may work because Mercury is a great value. Many people love nicely executed interiors and do not care about car being is much different mechnically from another car and you do not pay much money after all, it is not an Audi or Acura. And Ford platforms are pretty good too, even in affordable cars.

    It is interesting though - Mercury tries to attract Hispanics, Blacks and women, so called minorities in other words by making Mercury a fashion statement. It seems like white males do not care about fashion and style preferring boring cars with bland interiors. Is there any statistics about this?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    It's another lame idea coming out of a brainstorming session. One group is as likely as another to drive a boring car...or a fashionable one. Yes, some subcultures like extra-flash with big wheels and added chrome. Mercury isn't going to increase sales much with flashier interiors. Gotta hook people with the exterior first. Still, they have to do something and any effort is better than none.

    Mercurys still wiil be Fords with slightly different trim for years to come, and nothing new is in the pipeline. No one confuses an Impala with a Grand Prix...or a Pontiac G6 with a Saturn Aura or Malibu Maxx. If GM can use the same car and really differentiate among divisions, you'd think Ford could also figure out how to do it.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    ...Mercury had it's own bodyshell. Ford decided to take Mercury downmarket a bit in 1961. Then in 1965, Mercury styling started to ape that of the Lincoln Continental. This strategy worked pretty well until 1992 when the Grand Marquis started to look very much like a Ford Crown Victoria. I sure liked the styling of my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I called it "The Poor Man's Town Car."
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Something like this? Ay caramba.

    I almost feel sorry for the domestics, having stuff like that up to bat against the LS400 and Q45.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Nobody remembers that the CV is actually a GM, not the other way around. Actually, the 1992 GM had its own look. The new 1992 Crown Vic of that year looked like the fishbowl Chevy Impala had been put on a diet...for an even worse rendition of a bad shape. Ford realized its error after a few years, having first tried to shoehorn a grill on the thing where one did not fit, and bow tie tailights. Eventually, they just moved all the 1992 Grand Marquis styling to the CV and they have looked like the same car ever since.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,571
    I kinda like that '89 Grand Marquis. The only thing I don't like about it is it has that fiberglass extension on the C-pillar underneath the vinyl which gives it a more blocky, formal look (as if it wasn't formal enough) in the vein of the M-body 5th Avenue or those late 80's Caprice Brougham LS models.

    Those 1979-91 Panthers seemed more comfy and plush inside than the 1992 and later styles to follow. One of my friends has a 2004 Crown Vic LX and it feels cheaper inside than the 1995 Grand Marquis GS he had before that. And it, in turn, felt more spartan and plasticky than those more angular pre-1992 Panthers.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,571
    The new 1992 Crown Vic of that year looked like the fishbowl Chevy Impala had been put on a diet...for an even worse rendition of a bad shape.

    I think the 1992 Crown Vic was actually my most favorite of the aero style. I liked the open, airy greenhouse with the quarter windows in the C-pillar and the grille-less design, and the slim, tapered taillights. Unfortunately, the public still preferred their big cars with grilles, so Ford stuck one on half-heartedly the next year, and fiddled with it again around 1995.

    The '92 Crown Vic actually made me think of an Infiniti Q45. The resemblance is there. Well, okay, maybe you might need to put away the better part of a 6-pack and then stick your fingers in your eye sockets to distort your vision a bit, but the resemblance is there, dammit! :P

    I thought the 1998 restyle (when the Crown Vic got the Grand Marquis' roofline) made for a big improvement for the GM's style, but the CV just wasn't as eye-catching IMO.
  • bruce6bruce6 Posts: 29
    It's not that Ford doesn't know how to differentiate Mercurys from Fords. They did just fine with the Taurus/Sable and T-Bird/Cougar in the '80s and early '90s. The cars were mechanically the same but had unique styling and had their own fans. But Ford in recent years has tried to keep Mercury going on the cheap, sharing body panels and interior pieces, differentiating only grilles and trim, and using some different surface finishes inside. And car buyers around the country gave a collective yawn. Mercury could do just fine again if Ford chooses to spend the money to give it distinctive products. If they don't, it will join Plymouth and Oldsmobile (and Studebaker, etc.) in the great used car lot in the sky.
  • dilldill Posts: 31

    Ford is in need of serious cash. Mercury offers nothing really different than what Ford and Lincoln already have available for sale. Ford has been trying to make Mercury into a step above that of Ford, maybe in the past they had success like in the 60's and 70's and possibly before than but Mercury hasn't run off of their own automotive momentum in decades. Mercury's in the eyes of the public are not head turners. They offer nothing that you can't get on a Ford except for slighly different styling cues. Ford is is dire straits financially and they need to pool as much money as they can and come up with not just good products but industry leading products, and Mercury is not part of that mix. Mercury has been neglected with products and they have been neglected in having an image car except for the recent mercury Cougar that was discontinued a few years ago. I'm also concerened about Lincoln also. Lincoln aren't going as high end to compete against other makers as I feel they should. MB, BMW, Cadillac and Lexus have a better image, it might sound superficial but image in the world of cars is very important. It's sad but I'll bet within 10-15 years Ford will be gone.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    You may be right. Ford may just eventually go. However, Ford has a long history of squandering their successes with neglect and mediocrity. I just don't know how many more times this badly run company can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

    Still, Mercury has had really good years, and as recently as the 1980's was selling multiples of more units than they do now. The present regime at Ford seems to envision Mercury as only Fords with a bit of jewelry on. Oftentimes, Mercurys were only that, but many times they were more.

    The Cougar for example has been more. It was a prettier, more elegant Mustang at one time, and a more formal car than Thunderbird. In the latter 90's, it was unigue coupe that outsold everything in its class, including the Mitsubishi cash cow, the Eclipse. However, even hot coupes (other than the Mustang and Corvette) only have a good run of 18 months. Then they need freshening, and after the third year, they need renewing. Mitsubishi understands this and markets its product appropriately. That is why it is still head of the class, even though Mercury could have kept number one status in this niche.

    Now Ford sees Lincoln as the new Mercury, and Mercury as only badge-engineered Fords with two tone interiors and more plastic "satin aluminum" and satin nickel. Good luck. Mercury sales are up a bit, but they were so low, where else did they have to go? Montego sales have collapsed, even though it is definitely more attractive than the 500. And this in the lucrative mid-size to full-size sedan niche.

    Ford will keep Mercury, because they need it to support Lincoln and the Lincoln-Mercury dealers. But this whole set of plans since the mid-90's has been the most awful and stupid giving away of market share, that they might have hired monkeys and ended up with better plans.
  • Every time I see Ford 500 I feel sorry for Ford. How they could imagine that this thing could put world on the fire?

    It is a stretch to say though that Montegos sales have collapsed. You can say the same about 500. It has nothing to do with Mercury as a marque. Just compare (from

    Make Model YTD 2006 YTD 2005
    Ford Five Hundred 62,028 75,146
    Mercury Montego 16,244 18,438

    YTD 2006 Montego sales make 25% of Ford 500 – slightly more that in 2005 and proportion is the same for Fusion and Milan or Sable and Taurus. Mercury does exactly what was intended – adds 25% more sales to Fords bottom line. People who would never consider buying Ford may still opt for Mercury. Making Mercury more unique will do exactly what you all suggest to avoid - squandering resources on not so important projects. Unique Mercurys never sold well btw.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    16,000 to 18,000 sales per year is awful for a mid-size to full-size popular-priced sedan. And I do say the same about the 500. That they can't even move 100,000 of their Impala/300 competitor is awful.

    But then Ford sells more Mustang coupes (not the most practical or popular body style) than they do Fusions.

    And you and I can disagree about unique Mercurys. I am not old enough to have partaken of the early 50's lead sled Mercurys, but they did not share any body part with the Fords of the era. Later, they began sharing bodies, but at least Mercurys had longer wheelbases, often different rooflines, many different body panels, and better interiors. And they sold far better than they do now.

    There is no reason that Mercury could not be re-made into having a relationship to Ford as Chrysler does to Dodge, or Pontiac does to Chevy (or Hyundai to Kia for that matter). If GM, which was in big financial trouble, can differentiate their shared platform cars among divisions, I think Ford could also attract a unique crowd to Mercury if the product was there.

    If they cannot think larger than two tone interiors and a waterfall grill, Mercury will always be 25% of Ford or less. It is lack of will and lack of imagination that Mercury has been relegated these past few years to less than also run status.
  • Ford doesn't know how to manage a brand if it cam ewith instructions. Instead of wasting time buying import crap like Volva's and Mazda's they should have built Mercury up to be the import killer it should have been. Instead, they drag it down to where a Chevy Aveo is a more solid car than some glorified Ford POS.

    Mecury is an easy slaughter for the American Revolution... Right behind Toyota. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I guess you answered my question in the "buying american cars and what does mean" forum with this last post. ;)

  • I guess so.

    Take care and good night. Catch you tomorrow. :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    good night... ;)

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Mitsubishi understands this and markets its product appropriately. That is why it is still head of the class

    Which class it is exactly that Mitsu is at the head of, gregg? Because where I live, Mitsu doesn't exist anymore...can't give 'em away.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Was speaking of the Eclipse. Remember the Cougar (based on the Contour)? It was a #1 seller, but Ford did not uncerstand that hot coupes have a very short shelf life. Mitsu understands this and updates the Eclipse frequently. That is why it stays in the 2 door coupe game (and usually on top sales-wise), even though Mitsu on the whole is in the toilet.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Oh ok. The Eclipse is somewhat still alive - but nothing like it was 10 years ago, it was RED HOT back then. I get 0 call for Mitsu cars these days. Haven't had an order for an Eclipse even.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    It's still pretty rare to see a new Eclipse where I live (Washington, DC)...

    Something I've wondered...did the Evo Lancers have any halo effect for the regular Lancer Sedans?

    I don't expect to see a lot of Evos, but I'm a little surprised at how few "regular" Lancers I see. Maybe it's just my area, but...
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I don't think it is surprising. The Lancer is even more bland and off-putting than the regular Subaru Impreza. It was just poorly, poorly drawn. The new Lancer (2008) is stunning by comparison.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The Lancer only had one customer - Budget RAC. Period. The Evo was a joke, being based on a Lancer. Another reason why Mitsu is in the toilet - however, this isn't a "What the hell is wrong with Mitsubishi" forum, it's a "What the hell is wrong with Mercury" forum. Ford should kill Mercury, IMO. Give the Lincoln Dealers Volvo to sell alongside Lincoln - and they should survive. Give Lincoln to Volvo dealers if they want it as well. There isn't that much overlap between the dealers, or the cars. Could give Lincoln dealers a new reason to live. They're barely living now. The MKZ and Navigator is all that's keeping them alive at the moment.
  • Import the euro fords as Mercuries.

    I think they could pull a Saturn and do very well.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Agreed. The only thing holding them back are the half-baked import plans done with Mercury in the past. However, if Mercury would sell a line of the award-winning European Fords, it would re-acquire a reason to exist, the wonderful new Mondeo featured in the James Bond film could sell for more than the Fusion, and they could put the Milan and Montego out to pasture.
  • They could even call it the Mercury Mondeo. It fits with mercury's naming strat.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    I would have to say in order for Ford to survive and come out a leaner/meaner car company, yes they are going to have to ditch Mercury. Put this money into Lincoln/Ford/Volvo/Mazda. Everyone knows Mercs are just rebadged Fords anyway. Ford does not have the cash flow go give Mercury its own identity to build its own vehicles. :cry:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    But they could easily use the already existing European Fords, and Mercury could turn into Ford's "Saturn," which is now going to be the American outlet for Opels. Ford is planning to bring the European models here anyway. But meanwhile, Ford is not going to abandon the Fusion and the new American Ford look. However, that shouldn't mean Americans won't get a crack at the Mondeo, an even better car than the already very good Fusion.

    Mercury has been many things over the years, since it was created in the 1930's. Many of those years, it has meant nothing more than rebadged Fords. But at times it has successfully been much more than that. The bean counters and Ford family members could never see its potential as a real division consistently. Maybe Mullaly can knock some sense into them.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,206
    ...and they could put the Milan and Montego out to pasture...

    Not sure about the Milan but the Montego is going to be renamed Sable. Will this get "Sable-ized" like the 500 getting "Taurused" I'm not sure. But I do like your idea of the "Big M" being the euro-Ford outlet, a la Saturn/Opel.

    I finally did see a Montego about 1.5 weeks ago, nothing special. Was actually shocked to see one.

    The thing is, if FOMOCO gets rid of Mercury, would buyers roll into Ford, Lincoln or Volvo OR go elsewhere as when Olds folded? I mean, at least to me, many people didn't go to Buick, Pontiac or other GM product when Olds folded. Maybe I'm a little biased as myself, family members and friends that owned Olds' didn't buy another GM when time to replace the Olds (still have my w-body Cutty). I'm sure some did, but how many crossed over to Honyoda and others?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Taurus will do ok, due to all the boring sedan buyers, who are impressed if the thing starts and runs consistently. Ford would be stupid to continue to call the 500 "Five Hundred" when the name has failed in the marketplace. Doesn't matter if Taurus brings to mind the original one, or rental cars. It brings to mind, so this boring car will get more notice.

    We don't need the Sable. The original Sable was a good seller, but it didn't look like a Taurus with a Mercury name and feminized interior. The 08 Sable IS an 08 Taurus inside and out, with a bit of splish and splash. Give the Milan a wheelbase stretch (not at all difficult or expensive) and keep it. Bring the Mondeo here as the midsize. Give Mercury a Cougar, based either on the Mustang or the Australian rear drive platform. Dump the stupid old Grand Markee, and see what happens. Not a lot of investment, to see if they can save themselves from the Mercury dealers' lawsuits.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I always hated the Sable name, though I owned two of those cats.....loved the cars, hated the name.

    Say, gregg - how about if we just rename the Grand Marquis the Grande MK-E?????
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Sounds good to me. MKE, less expensive version of the old MKTC. Make it a Lincoln.

    Just kidding. Ford needs to either rebody the CV/GM and Town Car with modern styling and shorter overhangs, or get rid of them. As they are now, they are laughable and pathetic. Sort of like the Checker, before it passed on.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,206

    Don't think they'll dump GM/CV as they are cash cows. Tooling and the like has been long paid for, so they'll probably roll with them until sales hit some ungodly low number. I am wondering why a Cougar concept hasn't popped yet; I'm thinking a concept/end product like the original, as you stated, off the Mustang platform. That could inject some life into this patient. And maybe I'm sentimental since I owned one.

    The way this episode is going I don't think even "House" could save them at the end. :surprise:
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    House.......Love him..... I understand that Bill had signed off on killing all the Panther cars by 08, but when ARM got there, he happened to stumble upon (what may be the biggest problem yet at Ford) the little factoid, that the Panther was the company's most profitable line of cars right now...and they WERE KILLING IT!!! And we wonder why the Lions kept losing all those years......

    Yep, the Panther cars are very old, and although updated under the hood, they're an old fashioned car from the 70's. But the architecture and engineering is well nigh paid for, fleets all over the country still order them in the millions, and it's all that's saving them for the moment.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Maybe, except fleets are ordering fewer of them now, and they are only selling in the 10's of thousands. Compared to the numbers just three or four years ago, sales of these old things are awful. Ford could have kept the same architecture, but reskinned them with more modern proportions, without breaking the bank (borrowing looks from the 427 and/or Interceptor). Would have juiced sales a lot, while development of a more cutting edge replacement takes place.

    That never occurred to them though. Instead, they threw money away on grill and tailight changes every three years or so, that did nothing but take away from the bottom line. How many people can even tell which grill goes with the most current version?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I have no problem with your suggestions at all - clearly, they need a reskin at the minimum. The interiors need a full update also, and not a cheap one.

    Bill killed it mostly because the gas tank needed repositioning to comply with new DOT regulations - and he didn't have the money to do it. Alan borrowed the money and kept them going for now.
  • My guess is they may need to introduce a new marque if they want to bring Euro Fords here - similar to Saturn. Of course they can sell it as Mercury. The only problem with it that people do not expect Mercury to cost a lot more than Ford. They cannot sell Euro Fords as Lincoln eigther because Euro Fords are not luxury cars. They are pretty mainstream. Of course they can make it luxury like Honda did with Acura. But still somehow it may cheapen Lincoln image even further. Acura does not has a heritage or baggage while Linoln has a lot of it. It cannot be just another compact car.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    My guess is that Ford's North American car lineup (if the company still exists) is eventually going to be European Fords built in Mexico. The next Fusion will be substantially the same car as the Mondeo. I think Ford is in horrible financial condition, and it will not be the same company we know in 5 years.
  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    i hope your wrong :sick:
  • Americans love their big cars. I cannot believe Ford can sell European cars here and prosper. Both Toyota and Honda design cars for America, they do not sell European models here. Camry does not sell well in Europe because it is essentially an American car. European Accord is smaller and more expensive than American one. Well Ford wants to be niche player like VW then may be.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Ford just needs to make some money somehow - period. That may necessitate some interim moves that don't always make a lot of us happy, but if they can sell some cars - they have to do it.

    My strategy, and I think ARMs too is; repair the Ford reputation by making high quality, high value mainstream cars in North America. They have to get some style out there NOW, that pops, so people will buy them in droves. Mustang style.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Americans love every kind of car...and truck. They like choice. Volvo sells well here. Mercedes C Class is popular. The BMW 3 series is very successful here. All smaller than Camry. Kia, Hyundai, Honda all do ok with smaller vehicles. The 08 Mondeo would be a knockout hit here (and it is sized like a Camry room-wise), and the European Focus would sell better than the present American one. Camry does not sell well in Europe because it is a boring sedan, not because of its length or width. If there is any Ford I want to buy, it is the Mondeo.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I chased a Mondeo on I-15 once - man it was movin'!! The EuroFocus would be too expensive to compete here and would be unappealing at the price point it would need to be sold at. Don't know what a Mondeo would sell for, but if you really want one, import one. It can be done.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I don't want one badly enough to pay that kind of money. I'd certainly pay a premium over a Fusion, but there are too many other choices to mess around with gray market stuff.

    And as for the EuroFocus being too expensive, there are several responses that come to mind. First, we now know it would have been CHEAPER for Ford to base the 08 Focus on the European archtiecture than to do what they did. The alleged "too expensive" message was propaganda for "let's see if we can get at least 8 years out of each generation, and then just reskin it...the cost savings will really help the bottom line." (NOT.) Also, there are Euro small cars and hatchbacks that sell for high prices and succeed in their niches. The VW R32 comes to mind and the EuroFocus has a model to match it.

    So, I want Ford to offer a Mercury Mondeo, and a couple other Euro models that are different from most offerings here. Maybe an Australian Falcon reclothed as a G Markee...
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    The EuroFocus would be too expensive to compete here and would be unappealing at the price point it would need to be sold at.

    They would be cheaper if built in Mexico.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Americans love their big cars.

    As an owner of a 2004 Crown Victoria, I love big cars more than anyone. But higher fuel prices and higher CAFE standards (because of this global warming propaganda I don't believe, but most do) will mean the end of the big cars we love. I don't want to get off on an political tangent, but some say a war with Iran means $100/barrel oil and $5.00/fuel. How do GM and Ford compete with Toyota and Honda with 35 mpg CAFE and/or $5.00 gasoline.
This discussion has been closed.