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Will Mercury soon be joining Plymouth and Oldsmobile?



  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    Rocky, you sure have strange taste for someone under 60. Are you SURE you are a young guy??

    Im 17 and i like looks of the 500 :)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    That's just weird. Beyond the beyonds. (And do you like full-cut Levis too??)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Rocky, you sure have strange taste for someone under 60.

    Well I might be a distant relative to lemko. I kinda like the cars he does and he's a yong guy also. :D

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Thank-you.... bigo :)

  • prosaprosa Posts: 280
    When it comes to police cars, sheer speed isn't as vital a consideration as it once was, as police departments are trying to avoid high-speed chases whenever possible.

    Getting back to Mercury, has the plan to position it as a "chick car" failed? I've noticed that almost all Mercury TV ads continue to use women.
  • They basically position Mercury similar to GM's Saturn. But Saturn is a more upscale car than say Chevy while Mercury almost undistinguishable from Ford.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Maybe Saturn intends to be more upscale, with the import of more Opels, etc. However, it's been a boring appliance in the past...mainly noted for good dealership treatment and no haggle prices.

    Mercury needs Ford of Europe products. The line-up there is terrific, and if these were rebadged as Mercurys, they could legitimately sell for more $$ than Fords.

    Mercury's mistake in the past was bringing in products no one wanted (the Merkur was the wrong car for the wrong time, and the 1990s Capri was a mediocre entry in the very limited 2 seater market). Think instead the 1970s Capri (a runaway success until Ford neglected to significantly update it) with a varied group of well-engineered stablemates.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,302
    ...and I liked its styling a lot more than that year's Crown Victoria. People often mistook it for a Lincoln when they saw the front end. I also felt it was put together a lot better than a Crown Vic. I did consider another Grand Marquis right around the time I bought my Seville STS. The car I looked at was a new 2002 Grand Marquis LS Ultimate - in other words, the most loaded, upscale version of the car. I was disappointed as they seemed to cheap out on the quality of the car. It didn't feel as tight as my '89 and my 8 year-old base Cadillac DeVille with 96K miles on it had far less squeaks and rattles.
  • The article in attached link is about new direction for Mercury division and it confirm what I said in my previous post - Ford wants to make it similar to Saturn. It appears that they actually attract customers who otherwise would not consider Ford products, like those who own VWs or other sophisticated foreign brands. Interior in new Mariner revealed in Miami recently is different from other Mercurys and supposed to be different from new Escape which will be introduced later.

    Main difference I see is the cool new ice-blue instrument lighting instead of traditional green and new central panel where they got rid of this horrible cheap radio and climate control.

    "We do sell people out of Subarus and Volkswagens," Lemley said. "The Mercury customer is not a clone of the Ford customer."

    So I come to conclusion that Mercury has a solid foundation in Ford. If they replace it with Volvo they will just sell less cars and will not attract new customers.
  • xconxcon Posts: 4
    I am 14, and I want a 500. Awsome car, we rented one when our Chevy was in the shop, and it was so awsome. :shades:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    And whst is so awesome about it?? Maybe you could clue in all the folks who are not now buying it...
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    The brand Edsel Ford founded takes a new direction with reinvented Mariner and Mariner Hybrid vehicles. /AUTO01

  • derrado1derrado1 Posts: 194
    Believe it or not, when I was a young'un (not too long ago), I tried to convince my mother into buying an early Kia or a Proton.

    Thankfully, as I've gotten older, my tastes have refined considerably. I might have fallen head over heels for a 500 when I was younger, but I wouldn't now. I can see its merits (big size, inoffensive styling), but I'd rather have a Charger or Avalon.

    I know this is going to sound horrible to some of you, but I correct everybody's spelling. It's spelt "awesome", xcon. I'm terribly pedantic and I get ribbed for it but things should be spelt correctly.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Here in the US, we usually write "spelled."
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994

    Rocky :P
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    Are you pedantic about your grammar and sentence structure? ;)
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    Thankfully, as I've gotten older, my tastes have refined considerably. I might have fallen head over heels for a 500 when I was younger, but I wouldn't now. I can see its merits (big size, inoffensive styling), but I'd rather have a Charger or Avalon.

    An Avalon??? That's way more bland and boring than the 500! FWIW, I think the 500 isn't bad looking, for a boring family sedan. They did a good job stealing/copying styling cues from Audi/VW. Okay, a fair job.

    Why the heck don't they just bring the Australian Falcon?!?
  • derrado1derrado1 Posts: 194
    Both are correct. Take a look in your dictionary if you don't believe me.

    Funny that I get ribbed for correcting somebodys spelling. I really don't care what you guys think. I just hate it when people misspell something and continue doing so. Eventually, somebody has got to correct them. Now, can we get back on topic before the moderators instigate a time-out?

    The Avalon's more powerful and at least more distinctive looking. I like the interior of it as well. Looks are subjective, though.

    Wow. Two seperate points in one post. I wish everybody did that... *cough* ;)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes, spelt is correct, sweetie. However, that wasn't exactly my point. Spelt has another meaning--in addition to the obscure one that you point out is correct--so I prefer like most people to say (and write) spelled. Just call me a dead horse beater. ;)

    Now, what was the problem with the Charger, other than it's ugly?
  • wideglidewideglide Posts: 146
    Now, what was the problem with the Charger, other than it's ugly?

    Isn't that enough? ;) Plus it has 4 doors, which is not what a Charger was about! I wish they would have gone with the original Charger concept they had shown in 1999. It had 4 doors, too, but at least looked like a Charger. For those who haven't seen it, take a look:

    1999 Charger Concept
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes, I think the Charger would have been a bigger hit than the Challenger they have settled on. The Challenger was a righteous muscle car in its time, but was an also-ran up against the Mustang, Camarom, Barracuda and Firebird. Be interesting to see how it does this time. But certainly with the introduction of "4 door coupes" (Mercedes, VW) the Charger concept would have been timely.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Mercury's future is questionable. With Lincoln getting versions of the Edge (MKX), Fusion (MKZ), and 2009 Fairlane and with sales of the Panthers continually declining and no definite plans for an update and the possibility of closing the St Thomas plant around 2012, it's hard to see a future for Mercury. Also, it does appear (based upon a recent Automotive News article) that Ford of Europe and Ford of North America will begin co-developing cars in the B and C class (Fiesta, Focus, possibly Mondeo/Fusion) in the 2010 to 2012 time frame, so selling European Fords as Mercury is unlikely.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Ford has really, really screwed up with Mercury, but there appears to be no move afoot to deep six it. Too many very expensive lawsuits would result. Lincoln dealers can't just hook up with Volvo or Mazda for example in the same way that Lincoln and Mercury coexist now.

    As for Ford Europe, it will be several years minimum before any of the cars you mention will be the same here and there. The Fusion and the 2007 Mondeo are both new designs and they share nothing. The Mondeo or a derivative of it could easily be a Mercury.

    In fact, the thing could eventually be built here. And even if Ford does get it together to have the Ka, Fiesta and Focus the same here as there, Ford has many other European and Asian models that would interest customers here.

    But Mercury still stumbles. The Meta One and Cougar concepts were killed before further development. Ford will keep the Freestyle, which even with a new grill will continue to sink in the marketplace. The Meta on the other hand, had some flair and a proposed deisel-electric hybrid. Still, those fat station wagon things like the Freestyle, the Cadillac SRX, the Pacifica, and the Mercedes R Class are all sales disappointments. For some reason, they don't appeal like the other crossovers, or even the traditional SUV. So maybe its best the Meta idea is gone.

    But SOMETHING new please, not just a very few Fords with mascara and more jewelry.
  • derrado1derrado1 Posts: 194
    Lincoln is really expanding its range and moving downmarket. Not necessarily a bad thing (except maybe for heritage) as it's better to be competitive in the near-luxury segment than hopeless in the luxury segment. I just wonder what, say, the 2009 line-up will be like. MKZ, MKS, MKX, Navigator, (proposed Fairlane-based crossover), etc etc.

    The only reason they're not killing Mercury is because
    a) They make a profit as it's cheap to engineer a Mercury (Ford + chrome = $$$)
    b) Lincoln dealers wouldn't survive without Mercury. If Lincoln expands its line-up, it could be bye-bye Mercury down the track.

    It's no great loss, really. I mean, Oldsmobile had the 442, the '66 Toronado, the Aurora, and a hundred years of heritage. Plymouth didn't have skeletons in its closet (although it was a shadow of its former self come the 80's). What has Mercury got? At a stretch, the '67 Cougar and the '49 "Lead Sled" (that was Mercury, right?). Neither of those were particuarly original, groundbreaking, unique or influential.

    I hope they expand Lincoln's line-up a fair bit. The MKZ and MKX look great, although they're not breaking any new ground. Lincoln's also channeling its heritage (especially in interior and exterior details), and will hopefully continue this (maybe they can put that Continental concept into production?). They're certainly stepping away from the blandness of, say, the LS, and doing their own thing (the MKZ and MKX don't look like any other near-luxury cars, for example, and the '07 Navigator is....umm, unique.) Hopefully, a successful, rejuvenated Lincoln will emerge, and FMC can push Mercury away.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    In many areas, it seems that the Lincoln-Mercury dealers are merging with the Ford dealers. Is Ford quietly doing what GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC? If so, this could be the way to eventually get rid of Mercury.

    But when Ford eventually shuts down the St. Thomas plant, I think Mercury's lineup will be nothing more than the Mariner, Milan, and Montego.
  • Here is a link OC01ARCHIVE

    I personally think this strategy may work because Mercury is a great value. Many people love nicely executed interiors and do not care about car being is much different mechnically from another car and you do not pay much money after all, it is not an Audi or Acura. And Ford platforms are pretty good too, even in affordable cars.

    It is interesting though - Mercury tries to attract Hispanics, Blacks and women, so called minorities in other words by making Mercury a fashion statement. It seems like white males do not care about fashion and style preferring boring cars with bland interiors. Is there any statistics about this?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    It's another lame idea coming out of a brainstorming session. One group is as likely as another to drive a boring car...or a fashionable one. Yes, some subcultures like extra-flash with big wheels and added chrome. Mercury isn't going to increase sales much with flashier interiors. Gotta hook people with the exterior first. Still, they have to do something and any effort is better than none.

    Mercurys still wiil be Fords with slightly different trim for years to come, and nothing new is in the pipeline. No one confuses an Impala with a Grand Prix...or a Pontiac G6 with a Saturn Aura or Malibu Maxx. If GM can use the same car and really differentiate among divisions, you'd think Ford could also figure out how to do it.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,302
    ...Mercury had it's own bodyshell. Ford decided to take Mercury downmarket a bit in 1961. Then in 1965, Mercury styling started to ape that of the Lincoln Continental. This strategy worked pretty well until 1992 when the Grand Marquis started to look very much like a Ford Crown Victoria. I sure liked the styling of my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I called it "The Poor Man's Town Car."
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Something like this? Ay caramba.

    I almost feel sorry for the domestics, having stuff like that up to bat against the LS400 and Q45.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Nobody remembers that the CV is actually a GM, not the other way around. Actually, the 1992 GM had its own look. The new 1992 Crown Vic of that year looked like the fishbowl Chevy Impala had been put on a diet...for an even worse rendition of a bad shape. Ford realized its error after a few years, having first tried to shoehorn a grill on the thing where one did not fit, and bow tie tailights. Eventually, they just moved all the 1992 Grand Marquis styling to the CV and they have looked like the same car ever since.
This discussion has been closed.