• modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Actually the water cooled exhaust has nothing to do with the exhaust being vented in water. It is actually Coast Guard Law that if you have an enclosed engine hatch you must run a water cooled exhaust. The reason the exhaust is submerged is it's the cheapest most effective muffler. My boat sounds like a top fuel drag racer running it on land, fairly quiet in the water and I run it through-transom under the swim steps.

    Where did sticking mud in your exhaust come from?

    There is so little back pressure caused by a few inches of water it's probably akin to your analogy of header vs. a stock manifold. I know when tuning my carbed boat with outside water source that the RPM is maybe 100 RPM more then when I'm idling at the ramp. So yes there is back pressure. I also know once you have forward momentum that B/P is greatly reduced.

    Now back to trucks. Most likely because of the fuel injection submersing my exhaust has never altered RPM or the fact that I've stopped and re-started the truck while the exhaust was in the water there's never been a problem. A nasty trick we played in high school auto shop was sticking a potato(e) in the tail pipe of some unsuspecting kid. After cranking for a few seconds it sounded like an M-80 went off with mashed potato for everyone! Lastly have you ever driven a vehicle with a clogged catilytic(sp?) converter? The vehicle, at least mine, would barely run. Had to limp it home pulling the boat at no more then 30 MPH for over 30 miles. Put a straight pipe in place of the cat, engine ran fine with no damage and that was much more restriction then water.

    I'd be happy to have you at Lake Mead and demonstrate this, just give me a call when you're in Vegas.
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    10 Best Buys In 4WD
    Four Wheeler magazine has named its 10 best buys in four-wheel-drive pickup trucks and sport/utility vehicles.

    Subcompact Four-door SUV: Kia Sportage

    Compact Four-door SUV: Jeep Cherokee XJ

    Compact Extra Cab Pickup: Toyota Tacoma XtraCab

    Full-size SUV: Chevrolet Suburban K-2500

    Full-size 3/4-ton Regular Cab Pickup: Dodge BR2500

    Full-size 3/4-ton Extended Cab Pickup: Ford F-150

    Full-size 3/4-ton Diesel Extra Cab Pickup: Dodge BR2500 Club Cab Cummins

    Full-size 1-ton Crew-Cab Longbed Pickup: Dodge BR3500 Quad Cab

    Removable Top 4x4s: Jeep Wrangler TJ

    Ultimate 4x4: Toyota Land Cruiser
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    "My son Matt recently purchased a 1996 Ranger 4wd pickup which looks like the above picture.
    Having the vehicle several weeks with 3,200 miles on it, we had a heavy rain storm in the area (Oct. 19, 1996) which produced some streams to overflow, water puddles, water to flow across the roadways. He was following a Chevy Geo which proceeded through water flowing across the roadway, the Geo went through with no problem.

    My son Matt stopped at the edge of the waterflow, put his truck in 4 wheel high, low gear, and proceeded to go through the same water. Part way through the truck stopped. Another truck pushed him out. He managed to start the engine it ran rough and then stopped again. He had it towed to Haldeman Ford where it was purchased.

    The Service Manager said water had gotten into the engine - it was "ruined", it would not be covered under warranty - he was told to notify his insurance company!

    The manual says that you may drive through water up to the hubs (slowly). This is the way the truck was operated. The manual also says that maybe the ignition may get shorted. The manual says nothing about water getting into the engine! What happed to this truck was that (in my opinion) due to Ford's poor design the water spray was sucked into the engine through the air intake which is between the fender walls to the front and above the right front wheel well.

    Check out the following pictures of vehicles going through similar water on the same day.

    Ford has dragged it's feet sending complaint forms. It has taken over 1 month to get the engine repaired. Ford could not supply a new engine until Feb. or Mar. of 1997 and this is happened October 19, 1996. Since the Dealer could not get a new engine they ordered all the parts to build a new another engine. The total cost of the repairs was $5870.40 all due to water damage because of what I believe to be a Ford Design Problem.

    Upon further investigation I have found out that this same problem has happed to other people.

    My son had to pay out $250.00, also his insurance rates will increase!"

    The above article was taken from:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Why are you calling me to the table about pics? I have shown pics of my truck, Proved I live in Oregon, Proved I live just 30min from the Cascade range! What the hell more do you want? what about spoog? Why aren't you calling him on is ficticious Tacoma TRD supercharged??? We have NEVER, EVER seen one picture....
    Fact is the Ranger can go anywhere a Tacoma can including the overrated, overpriced TRD. The locker can only be used in 4low, under 5mph in straight away motion... Sounds like your going to get tons of use out of this option.. LOL... Enjoy the normally open axle too... And enjoy the sticker... Every time I see one of these I laugh at the fool who fell for the sticker! ...
    See you in the hills.....
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Something just doesn't make sense,if Ford is 28th in customer satisafction why do they sell more of every vehicle the next year,#1 full size, #1 compact,#1 suv.2nd largest auto maker in the world.Please explain why this is.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Well, old posts.

    Recognize that the Tacoma was given that award this year. Ranger XL got it last year.

    Problem is, that is the 4 banger, stripped version of the Tacoma, automatic as I recall with a final crawl ratio in 4X4 low approaching that of a bad running Taurus on a good day. Actually, the crawl ratio is somewhere around 26:1. My Ranger, for about the same price has a crawl ratio of 36.5:1
    Point I am making? My Ranger would eat that sucker alive on any, repeat any hill. Actually, with that ratio, the Tacoma would stall on the hills I traverse.

    Now to the stalled Ranger. Well, my son has had a few problems with his cars. "The car just wouldn't stop, I was pushing as hard as I could. Must be a car problem."
    Yeah right!

    My thoughts on what happened with that Ranger was:

    Someone in the truck thought/said: "Hey dude, bet you can't splash the water over the hood!"

    I have been though water to mid bumper, no problems. There is another part to that story you cite that you do not know.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Well, to assume that grabbing firm ground was an option, is what comes with not being there.

    Did you MISS my post that that one particular area on that little curve was 8-12 inches deep in that baby powder consistancy dirt?
    Even IF you were able to hit solid ground under it, you have dug youself an 8-13 inch hole under the tires, on an angle around 30 degrees, with a side slip of maybe 10 degrees.

    It was tough. I could not make it, but in fairness, I only made one shot at it, the 88 BroncoII could not make it, the big Chevy and GMC van could not make it.
    Only a full sized Bronco, with great difficulty, 4 Rangers, all 2-6 inch lifted and one 4Runner made it the time we were there.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    May have missed this with all the posts.

    Email me again, I think I trashed without reading your email.
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    You have not proved anything in regards to that fictitious truck and the cascades. Cpousnr can copy and paste photos on a site and then say it is yours.
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    Show me a photo of you going through water to mid bumper.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    The air inlet is basically the same on the Ranger and Toyota; in the fenderwell. The F-150 and Broncos run them above the radiator support, perhaps a better place. Sorry about your son's misfortune. I think he was playing, don't be upset, that's just my opinion.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224 midsize SUV test-

    "In the beginning, SUVs were not about luxurious rides and coddling interiors. They were about getting from one place to another -- generally without a paved road. The 2000 4Runner is a descendant of these vehicles. This Toyota is refined to the point that it is a very livable vehicle for day-to-day use, yet most at home off the beaten path. Like its forefathers, the truck was outstanding off-road, but normal pavement driving was on the harsh side. The powertrain wasn't very peaky, but when shifted to 4WD low, the Toyota was the best in the walk-down test and handled the ruts like a trained athlete. The 4Runner is the SUV for the hard-core off-roader. -- Scott Mead

    It rides and drives like a truck, and has excellent crash-test scores, and that appeals to me. It showed awesome performance off-road, which also appeals to me despite the fact that I don't go off-road. The 4Runner is comfortable front and rear, and exudes Toyota quality. But Toyota demands a ridiculous premium for the 4Runner. But several years from now, it'll likely retain a good chunk of the original MSRP, unlike several competitors. -- Christian Wardlaw"
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    This is all getting old. We have a daily posting from CP trying to find some article pointing out a problem in a Tacoma or trying to show that the Ranger approaches the quality of a Tacoma. Then spoog fires back and no one listens, he's ridiculed etc.

    The Ranger still isn't up to Tacoma's quality or performance but the Ranger guys keep trying.

    No one rates the Ranger higher in quality than the Tacoma though some rate it as a better buy because it's cheaper. The Ranger guys keep trying.

    Everyone wants to be like Toyota and I guess it's frustrating that the Ranger ain't there. The Ranger guys still keep trying.

    Those that own a Tacoma, and particularly those that have driven a Ranger in comparison, know that the TRD Tacoma performs better. The Ranger group will never convince a Tacoma owner otherwise.

    You guys will keep dreaming though I guess. As you keep trying, the same posts keep coming.......

    And you guys wonder why spoog is the way he is....
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    not bad Cspounser, but the "water" crossings are still nothing at all. Nice try though.

    I still feel a 3 foot deep mud pit with semi-tire sized boulders is a little tougher than some dusty trail over small ledges.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224

    This is a trail out east in Massachusets.

    I guess the "Blair Witch" of 4x4 trails. Kind of creepy. The rail goes past old cemetaries and structures back in the woods.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Dana Corporation Providing Frame Assembly, Driveshafts for New Toyota Sequoia

    TOLEDO, Ohio, Jul 19, 2000 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Dana Corporation (NYSE:
    DCN) announced today that it will soon begin production of frame assemblies and
    driveshafts for the new 2001 full-size Sequoia sport utility vehicle,
    manufactured by Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Indiana.

    (Photo: )

    The frame will be assembled at Dana's Structural Products facility, located in
    Owensboro, Ky. The Sequoia will benefit from Dana's and Toyota's commitment to
    excellence to design the frame with unprecedented NVH characteristics. The front
    half of the frame is similar in design to the Toyota Tundra pickup and the
    components for the rear portion are being produced at Dana's Structural Products
    facility in Hopkinsville, Ky. The Sequoia will also benefit from the advanced
    line-sequencing technology that was jointly developed by Dana and Toyota for the

    In addition, Dana's Spicer Driveshaft Group will provide driveshaft technology
    incorporating Spicer's patented maintenance free, net-formed cardan universal
    joints. The one-piece 1310 series swagged (four-inch diameter tubing to
    three-inch) steel main driveshafts will be supplied for the 4x2 Sequoia model.
    Spicer Driveshaft's swagging process for driveshaft tubing, allows for easier
    tool clearance in the installation and removal of large diameter driveshafts.
    The group will also supply the front main driveshafts on the 4x4 version. The
    assemblies will be supplied out of Spicer Driveshaft's Gordonsville, Tenn.,

    Vehicle production is anticipated to be 60,000 units per year, which will result
    in significant increases in shipments of frames and driveshafts to Toyota. Dana
    also supplies the frames and driveshafts for the Toyota Tacoma pick-up, which is
    built at New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc., located in Fremont, Calif., a
    joint venture plant between Toyota and GM.

    "We are maximizing our people and our assets by utilizing the Owensboro and
    Hopkinsville facilities to manufacture and assemble the Toyota Sequoia and
    Tundra frames, said Mike Greene, president of Dana's Structural Products Group.
    "We are proud to be a part of these exciting new vehicles."

    Added Joe Sober, Product Director of Dana's Driveshaft operations, " We are
    committed to excellence and quality to ensure the success of this program as we
    further develop our relationship with Toyota Motor Corporation."

    The Structural Products Group and the Spicer Driveshaft Group are part of Dana's
    Automotive Systems Group, which provides Under-The-Vehicle technologies and
    integrated modules and systems to customers anywhere in the world. The
    Automotive Systems Group encompasses advanced innovations in Driveline Systems
    including Spicer(R) axles and driveshafts, Parish(R) structures and technologies
    in chassis systems sub-structures incorporating engine and axle cradles,
    Nakata(R) steering and suspensions, FTE(R) automotive brake and clutch systems,
    and a systems engineering integration and logistics unit.

    Dana Corporation is one of the world's largest independent suppliers to vehicle
    manufacturers and their related aftermarkets. Founded in 1904 and based in
    Toledo, Ohio, the company operates some 320 major facilities in 32 countries and
    employs more than 82,000 people. The company reported sales of $13.2 billion in
    1999. Dana's Internet address is .

    SOURCE Dana Corporation
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    Allknowing has stated correctly that the Ranger still has to prove its quality & reliability. I guess for Ranger fans looking at that plane jane Ranger they wish they had a Tacoma.

    "Ford owners everywhere are reluctant to convey confidence and satisfaction when discussing their car with friends, family and coworkers as of late. In fact, out of 32 car manufacturers worldwide, Ford has dropped to 28th place for overall customer satisfaction. One customer for every 400 vehicles sold is involved in an unresolved claim, meaning either there is no known repair for a problem they are experiencing, or they have become so frustrated that they wish to have their car bought back. Article by James Brennan- Blue Oval News

    The Ranger owners always cite cost as a over riding factor. Cheaper is not better and Ford has manufactured their products at a cost saving to maximize their return, while foregoing the buyers need for a quality vehicle.

    "Ford, rather than justify the extra revenue required to improve the quality of their parts, has chosen another route. After studying which repairs are the most common, they looked to Carl Bergman, Head of Parts and Service for the answer. His decision was to slash the warranty labor standards across the board, forcing the dealerships to help bear the burden. "

    "Ford has been saving money on warranty costs by taking it from the dealerships, when they could just as easily make changes in manufacturing and engineering processes to keep the vehicles from breaking down in the first place."

    Articles by James Brennan- Blue Oval News
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    Nice site of TTORA, but riding through mud and deeper water holes far worst than dry dirt trails. Have you went through deep mud?
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Good post on Ford quality. You've posted it about three time and I've notice that there's no comment from the Ranger folks. You see many sites like that not to mention all the Ford forums with unhappy customers, and the Ranger guys still will not accept that Ford has a long way to go to meet Toyota's quality level. The Ranger seems to be Ford's best vehicle as far as quality but still has lots of complaining customers all over the net and in magazine articles. They sell a lot of them but they still have a much higher ratio of unhappy customers to unit sold than Toyota or Nissan. The Ranger guys will remain in denial no matter what you show them though so don't expect much from your post.
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    Toyota Tacoma
    A great truck with a smooth ride and handling.
    "We drove an Xtracab 4X4 Limited from Los Angeles to the desert town of Yuma. During this four-hour drive Toyota's 4x4 behaved with good manners, providing a surprisingly smooth ride and excellent handling." JD Powers & Associates

    4x4 Off-road
    "But the amazing thing is the ride. With a suspension developed by Toyota and its off-road racing teams, this truck rode like we were traversing newly rolled blacktop, not sun-buckled asphalt. At times it was easy to forget that we were driving a 4WD truck. Only the occasional extra front-end bounce inspired by a bump in the road reminded us that this was, indeed, a 4X4. Toyota's 4X4 also holds corners very well. With its high center of gravity you don't want to try anything too radical, but it really hangs onto the decreasing-radius turns on freeway on-ramps and in other moderate maneuvers. " JD Power & Associates
    Tacoma TRD Locker

    "That same sand patch gave us the opportunity to try the push-button locking differential. We purposely stopped in the middle of the pool of sand. Pressing the button locked the rear differential, forcing the rear wheels to turn at the same speed. This enabled the Tacoma to walk out of the ankle-deep sand with absolutely no trouble. The locking rear differential is indispensable for driving in an area prone to mud and snow. At moderate speed over desert moguls the Tacoma suspension keeps the tires on the terrain for good grip without jarring the occupant's internal organs loose. " JD Power & Associates

    Great Truck
    "Final Word
    There are bigger trucks on the market (including Toyota's new full-sized Tundra), and there are more powerful trucks. But there are few 4WD trucks that offer the combination of style, comfort, and rugged performance you find in the Tacoma Xtracab 4X4 Limited. " JD Power & Associates
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    The reason why I put those post down is that they can pretend they have a great truck, while we Taco owners know we have a great truck. I have yet to see in any off-road magazine where the Ranger even came near the TRD Taco or the regular Taco.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    The new Ranger may give you Taco owners something to think about,from what I've been reading and I'm not sure if its all true but the new Ranger off road package will include 31" BFG's,bilstein shocks ,skid plates,4 rear leaf springs as opposed to 3 now,possible solid front axle with limited slip front and rear.standard 4 whl abs on all trucks and standard 4 doors in the supercabs,also the new 4.0 beat the 4.3 vortec and the dak R/T in 1/4 mile times.And because svt has had such success with the Lightning there is a good chance of an svt ranger with the 3.9 V8 lincoln ls engine in it and it will also have all wheel drive.
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    Only 3 leafs in the old Ranger? The Tacoma has 4 plus an overload leaf.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    You SAY you have traveled Colorado trails and then make a statement like this?

    "I still feel a 3 foot deep mud pit with semi-tire
    sized boulders is a little tougher than some dusty
    trail over small ledges."

    Never been here, never done it in my opinion. Running straight through some mud is no where near as difficult as backing up a narrow, on lane trail on crumbling shale.

    Tend to believe vince more and more in regard to your ownership of a Tacoma.

    Have to go back and check some of your old posts for more inconsistancies. Rather sure I can find many.

    You have no basis of fact regarding your comment about vinces pictues. In fact, have only seen one of your truck (none of spoogs, if it exists) and a rather vague comment about copyright of pictures by a Toyota group. While visiting the Tacoma club sites, saw no such restrictions listed.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    168 of 182: thehitcher (modvptnl) Sat 29 Jul '00 (08:53 PM)

    The air inlet is basically the same on the Ranger
    and Toyota; in the fenderwell. The F-150 and
    Broncos run them above the radiator support,
    perhaps a better place. Sorry about your son's
    misfortune. I think he was playing, don't be upset,
    that's just my opinion.

    Well first an formost, the hi chair was trying to post, for the 2nd or 3rd time, a story he found. Seems some guys son trashed an engine by more than likely spraying water up the front of the vehicle then telling his dad he just was going slow. And the dad wants Ford to pay for his sons mistake.

    The Ranger intake, at least my stock intake, is located behind the right headlight. In order to suck in water enough to lunch the engine, you have to fill the airbox with water. as it is sealed on the clam shell, then you have to drive in enough water through a 2-3 inch air feed tube or totally submurge the front of the vehicle basically to the headlights.

    Nice to beat up on Ford for problems caused by a son that is most likely a liar.

    Typical of this enlightened X generation, all someone elses fault. . .
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    #170 of 182: (allknowing) Sat 29 Jul '00 (10:06 PM)

    "This is all getting old. We have a daily posting
    from CP trying to find some article pointing out a
    problem in a Tacoma or trying to show that the
    Ranger approaches the quality of a Tacoma. Then
    spoog fires back and no one listens, he's ridiculed."

    Really? Hmmm, how did you miss all the sarcastic ridicule's from spoog, mostly directed to me?

    Now, this guy goops(gonna use this name, more fitting) has been lying, mis-quoting, ridiculing, jumping to conclusions with maybe 90% of his posts, refuses to answer any questions(now he does not have to but it reduces his credibility to about zip in my book) and basically falls back on on 2-3 year article which was riddled with errors and TSB and recall posts. Now I have slam dunked him many times on the recalls, more Tacoma vehicles than Rangers have been recalled(count the numbers, it is true) and those Rangers recalled have been like the following:

    300 ELECTRIC Rangers,
    a few thousand Rangers for fuel rail and or cruise control issues.
    a few thousand or maybe hundreds of Rangers for slipping out of Park

    In all cases the fixes were minor to correct the situation.

    Now on Tacoma, the numbers of units recalled are quite higher, like the WHOLE FLEET, 180,000 vehicles for a couple of the early years for breaking frames. And for some reason, the head gasket issue, which involved all 3.4 and earlier 3.0 Toyota engines, never made it as an official recall. That design error could lunch your engine.

    But in no was do these or even Tacoma recalls mean every vehicle is bad.

    In regard to TSB's spoog still, and now the hichair, seems to thing that a complaint means there is something wrong with the vehicle.

    Not really so in most cases.

    So do not lecture me on a quality vehicle. Mine is pretty darn good.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Look man, this is over. EDmunds, Consumer Reports, 4wheeler, PEtersons, BLue Oval news( your own SOURCE for crying out loud) the National Highway of Safety Institute , Jd powers long term 5 year testing all rate the Tacoma as:

    a. higher quality
    b. more durable
    c. a better performer
    d. better offroad
    e. more payload
    f. higher resale value

    And if you think driving on some dusty, dry trail with an occasional piece of shale is tougher than traversing a rock and mud filled pit UP TO YOUR WINDOWS, you have never been offroading.

    Even Vince will attest to this.

    Now, some of those crawls were extremely tough, no doubt about it. Colorado has some eXTREMELY tough trails. The problem is, your Ranger isn't on any of them.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    "Only 3 leafs in the old Ranger? The Tacoma has 4
    plus an overload leaf"

    Thats interesting, isn't it?
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Everything here has been backed up AGAIN and AGAIN.

    Toyota DOE'S design their 4x4's with offroading in mind. It is a large part of their design philosophy, and why their 4x4's have remained the best stock offroaders for quite awhile.

    Right down the line through Landcruiser, 4runner, and Tacoma, Toyota has class leading ground clearance, and options the other makers JUST DONT OFFER. There is a reason for this.
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    Check your e-mail again. I sent you another one this morning.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    So wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Tacomas (and Rangers, Landcruisers, 4Runners for that matter) are designed for street use first and foremost.

    If a vehicle was actually designed for off-road use first and foremost, it definately would be nowhere near street legal.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Could someone please post a photo that the Taco has 4 leaf springs,There is a tin knocker on my jobsite with a 4x4 Tacoma only 3 leaf springs on his its fairly new and also check out your big brother the Tundra only 3 leaf springs on that to,Full size Chevy and Ford have 4 springs.To be honest with you I don't know how many the Ranger has just read that the new 4x4 offroad will have 4 along with rear anti sway bars.BTW got my digital camera from Aol over the weekend you can actually take a picture and have it on your computer in less than 30 seconds,comes with all hardware needed for it and only $69.00
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    spoog, what is the ground clearance on a TRD? your PTOTY site claims it's 9 1/2 inches. but I've heard some people say it's 11. I'm not positive, but I think the ZR2 is like 9 3/4 inches. I happen to have a chevy dealer and a toyota dealer right next to each other about 4 miles from my house. I'm gonna take a tape measure over there and measure them both myself. (hopefully no dealers will catch me!)
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Toyota measures the ground clearance from the higher of the two axles. I guess it's a marketing thing. I've heard the actual difference between a off-road 4x4 Ranger and a TRD Tacoma is around .5-.75" in the Toyota's favor.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I think I'm beginning to see the picture here. I have a 100 MPH Tunnel boat, a 600cc dirt bike, a lightly modified Cobra, a Built '69 Bronco and 4x4 Super Duty. I take care of stuff with maintenance above and beyond what's called for. But I also hammer my stuff HARD and use it the way I want. I see you as much more conservative and maybe afraid to take a chance every now and then. There is nothing wrong with that but I think that's the main difference.

    I've never seen a tilt trailer on a larger boat and for the times I'd have to use it I don't think it would be worth the investment since I've never had a problem.
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    Edmunds is an AUTOMOTIVE site people....

    we don't DO boats, boat trailers, etc.... Lets STAY on topic....

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    OK good enough. Our conversation has degraded enough. What do you think of the Ranger or the Tacoma?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    This is a never ending circle! Ground clearance,
    Ground clearance.. I have a Ranger with P265x75xR16 all terrains. My friend owns a TRD, we compared side by side, he has maybe a 1/4" advantage at most..
    This pics are mine. I even took pics of my license plate (Oregon). CP lives in Colorado.
    Tacoma is a overrated, overpriced truck. This is why sales numbers have not even made a dent in Ranger sales. The consumer has spoken. The Ranger isn't number one for 13 years straight for no reason at all folks...
    I see we have yet another spoog clone.
    Please tell me about the locker on the TRD that only engages in 4low? or about the Toyota open rearends? or the lowest crashtest scores? or cheap interior?
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    well, armed with my trusty tape measure I stopped by my local chevy and toyota dealers tonight. both the ZR2 and the TRD came out exactly at 9 1/2 inches according to my measurements. Here's an interesting sidenote: I grabbed a Tacoma brochure while at the Toy dealership and looked up ground clearance for the TRD. on page 8, here's what it said: "minimum running ground clearance" -10.8 inches for all models. "with available tires", 12 inches. hmmmm. I can only assume that "with available tires" means the 31" tires that come with the TRD package. -either way, both figures are a flat out lie. 12 inches my a**!
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    Obiviously the remark with the photos in one of my previous post tells me that you are attentive. Good!!! Now tell me why Ford is ranked 28th in customers satisfaction? Hmmmm . . .

    BTW I never said my web page was an off-road thing for the Tacoma. In regards to photographs you should know this or have some knowledge of the copyright laws.

    "A picture is considered to be your property if you took it, or if it was taken at your direction or given to you, along with the rights thereto, by the photographer.

    The fact that you published the picture does not give others the right to further publish it. You have the right to control how that picture appears in public. As of the U.S. adoption of the Berne Convention, you do not need a copyright notice to secure the copyright, the copyright is secured as soon as you publish it. This has been tested in court as it applies to the Internet. If someone publishes your picture on the Internet without your permission, you are on solid legal ground by demanding that they remove it.

    The relevant citations of U.S. copyright law are as follows:

    17 U.S.C. 106(5) gives you the exclusive right to display a photograph you have created or caused to be created.

    17 U.S.C. 106A(a)(2) specifically forbids the reproduction of a photograph in a manner that is prejudicial to the honor or reputation of the author, whether or not that reproduction or republication is lawfully accomplished.

    17 U.S.C. 502(A) allows you to bring action in U.S. district court for an injunction against further unlawful display of your copyrighted work.

    There is case law precedent for this, but the exact case has not yet been located. It is United Media v. Somebody. The gist of the ruling was that copying images from one web site for use on another is a violation of copyright."

    US Code Title 17
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    spoog, could you enlighten me on what exactly the TRD has in the way of off-road specific equipment that the ZR2 doesn't have?
    -Oh, BTW the TRD only has 3 leaf springs. I checked.
  • thehitcherthehitcher Member Posts: 56
    Well, I have to say that you do check in regards to the leaf springs. Yes, the Taco has three with an overload leaf. It alwsys did and that was a roundabout way to measure the opponent.

    I noticed that in an earlier post you had mentioned the 28th place in customer satisfaction in comparison to sales figures. How much of that is fleet sales?
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    I'm not trying to change the subjuct and I know what the topic is here. But I wanted to know what you guys thought. Let me give you some background, I have quite a bit of offroad experience. However as I have mentioned previously mine is only in the southeast, flat, muddy, swampy and sandy. The only different challenges might be the sand pits or limestone quarries, but these usually involve trespassing :( Most of my offroading now comes during hunting season(too damn hot in the summer). My suspension will come into play during the traversing the logged areas not so much rock crawling that I wish.

    Anyways, I am curious of what you guys think of the Nissan suspension. I know that I don't see much of the 4wd's here in FL. In fact mine is the only C.C. I've seen. Plenty of the King Cabs. I ask you guys because on this site you guys have what seems to be more knowledge on offroading than those owners on the sites that I frequent. Which is ok because I too, spend more time driving back and forth to work than offroading. Eventhough I don't much care for magazine articles, I have seen some good things mentioned about the Frontier suspension. I saw one article that was talking about the Desert Runner(racing version) type truck placing in the top five in several races in 1999. This article was boasting about the suspension. I do know this when I pick up a general fourwheeler magazine I very rarely see a Nissan, S-10 or Rangers for that matter in it. Mostly full sized and plenty of toyotos. I know nobody produces a lift kit fot it yet, which probably discourages sales. I would appreciate your responses, I won't criticize your opinions after all I'm asking for your opinions.

    BTW, Vince8 I'll be ignoring anything you post so don't waste the energy. Save us all the trouble of reading your posts.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    In regard to the clearance issue, I, a while back, posted a picture of my trusty Stanley Tape measure under the differential of a brand new TRD on the John Elway (go Bronco's!) lot.

    It measured under 10 inches, around 9 1/2 plus a few hairs. My Ranger, with 31's measured right at 9 1/4 on its lowest point, the differential.

    Conclusion? SOMEWHERE on the Tacoma there is 12 inches clearance, but it is not that higher than my Ranger.

    Correct the Tacoma has 3 leaf springs, the Ranger has 2 leafs, each with a progressive lower leaf, and I admit the Tacoma's is a tad bit thicker. But we have discussed this before, the Ranger stock is rated 1,260 lb, the Tacoma 1,600+, hence the extra leaf. I checked on adding an extra leaf to mine, it would cost about $125 to include the extra leaf, longer UBolts. But I was cautioned that the ride would suffer.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Never said your site was off-road related, however must compliment you. . .

    That was some spiffy pictures of the dash board!

    I mentioned the fact you SAID you could not publish pictures of your trips because they were the property of the Tacoma club you are in, by the way found it's site, do not recall your number but did find it. Bravo Zulu to the Tacoma sites for posting some very nice pictures, including the Colorado group. Good job. . .


    I SAW the pictures that spoog posted on a 4Wheel drive site, not associated with the Tacoma club. There was no copyright notice, nor did I see such a notice on the Tacoma Club site.

    Now that leads me to the question, are they are are they not the exclusive use of the Tacoma club?

    If so, they are showing up elsewhere.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611

    Toyota Tacomaw worst bumpers of all pickups, including the S-10? WOW!

    Crash test ratings, well we KNOW the story on this one. . .

    Structrual frame problems recall, it should be noted that someone said it was only 2 wheel drives, so to who that was, I stand corrected. I thought it was the whole fleet.

    But this brings out a point, read the last paragraph:
    "Toyota said only 12 Tacoma pickups have been found to have the problem, so far, and but one of those were used for commercial purposes."

    The POINT is this is true for all recalls and TSB's, not ALL the vehicles are going to be bad. Due to picking a "...lot..." of vehicles, a recall or TSB is issued. It could be all the vehicles or it could just be 10-12.

    Just remember that when spoog again posts TSB/recall info, it is NOT all the vehicles.

    Also, notice how spoog has not answered or responded to my comment on the total number of UNITS being recalled is higher for Tacoma?
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    "I can't get no, satisfaction, I can't get no girly action. . ."

    I do not know hitcher, would have to read the detail of the study and what questions were asked. Remeber, that is FORD owners in GENERAL, NOT just Ranger owners.

    Could be we are just picker. . .

    Please keep the apples with the apples, ok?
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    While changing my '99 Tacoma's oil, I noticed that I really didn't have a front bumper. At least not what is traditionally accepted as a bumper. That piece of gray plastic IS the bumper. I'm not an expert in plastics technology, and while the plastic "bumper" can resist errant grocery carts without obvious damage, IMHO it won't protect much , or "bump", in an actual collision. No wonder the Tacoma fared so poorly in the bumper tests posted by cpousnr.

    Yet another example of Toyota's de-contenting.

    BTW- I noticed that the 2001 Tacoma will once again have a piece of chrome-plated STEEL attached to the front of the truck. Makes me wonder if there was a lesson learned there. Hmmm.....
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Thought you said they would die if you do this hitcher. . .
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Have you tried measuring the front clearance of the Taco verse the Ranger?


    "spoog, could you enlighten me on what exactly the
    TRD has in the way of off-road specific equipment
    that the ZR2 doesn't have?
    -Oh, BTW the TRD only has 3 leaf springs. I
    checked. "

    1st of all, the Toyota offers a clutch/start/cancel switch, which is very helpful. Secondly, it offers a locking rear differential(very heavy duty). You also get one of the best tuned offroad suspensions around, as well as nice shocks, and class leading ground clearance. You also get a nice gear ratio, and a standard heavy duty lever transfer case.

    Not to mention that Toyota Tacomas have Dana frames.

    As for the second question, the Tacoma's stock payload is 1600 pounds, compared to 1,000 pounds for the zr2. The tacomas leafs are thicker, and reinforced with a another load leaf. Toyota makes one heck of a pickup, even using 6 lug nuts on the wheels and providing HUGE heavy duty breaks.
This discussion has been closed.