• spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    That Nissan is a sharp truck. Is that the new quad cab ?
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    The new topic has been created. Head here for the war between the compact trucks:
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Thanks. Yes I have the SE fully loaded except, the bed extender. I was just seeing what you guys thought about it's suspension. I feel it's pretty good for offroad. Not trying to rehash the past discussion but, I don't however think that it is as tuned as the TRD or the ZR2. IMHO, if offroading is very important those two suspensions make the best. All the others seem to be less 'tuned' for offroading. If Toyota had the 4-door in March or if the S-10 was 4-door(and they refined their tranny)who knows? I love the tires that are on the Toyota. I'm not sure why my 4x4 has 65 series tires on it. The side walls are short, it hasn't been a problem in the sand yet.

    All this talk about crash testing...I think the tests are marginal(because of the many variables in the real world). I can tell you without looking at the test(which I will do later) I feel alot safer in the Nissan than I did in my S-10. But cthompson21, unfortunately I have to tell you I fall into your category, I didn't even look at safety tests when considering my new truck. I guess I am subconsciously thinking about the myth of "being in a truck is safe period"

    You better be careful bringing up Nissan on here, Vince8 might be mad, I think he feels threaten by Nissan
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Well my friend, I didn't bring up the topic again. I responded to your post which brought it up again in a way that I felt misrepresented the facts. That's my opinion though. Also, I think we would all like to see the manufacturers improve the safety of their trucks. Anyway, enough of that.
    Speaking of safety though, I just saw another report on the Firestone Wilderness tires on World News Tonight. There was another roll-over Explorer accident in Florida today caused by tread separation. They talked to a Lawyer that has settled many of the cases and he said that part of the settlement was that he couldn't talk about the cases. He did pretty much give away though that tests show there is a problem and that Ford is covering it up by settling out of court with the hush clause. Unfortunately, the Rangers came with those tires too in Calif. so I have to decide whether to buy new tires that I don't really need for my wife's truck or not. Ford is really demonstrating leadership in safety by covering up over thirty accidents, most with fatalities, so far. I wonder if the tires contributed to the death rate figures on the Ranger?

    As for your new topic, sounds good. We've rehashed the same stuff here too often.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Sure thing. Enough with all of the safety stuff.

    I've never liked the Firestones on my truck. They are definately not a good tire. I just heard on the news tonight that Sears pulled them off the shelves. It looks like I might be ordering some new tires from the tire rack soon...

    At least Ford put good tires on my SVTour, BFG G-Force T/A KDW's. They're one helluva tire (and freaking expensive too around $150 a pop).
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    The tires at issue -- Firestone/Bridgestone's ATX, ATX II and Wilderness models -- are original equipment on
    General Motors,
    and Suburu
    SUVs and pickups.
    But most accidents reported to the federal government's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have involved the Ford Explorer, the industry's top-selling SUV.

    Officials at Bridgestone/Firestone earlier this week defended the tires, saying properly inflated and maintained ATX, ATX II and Wilderness tires are "among the safest tires on the road."

    Longtime Firestone-Ford link
    Japan's Bridgestone Corp. bought U.S. tire maker Firestone in 1988. But the Ford-Firestone link goes back almost 100 years, when Henry Ford chose Harvey Firestone to supply tires for America's first mass-produced automobiles.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I would disagree with vince.

    Good or bad your opinions are valued here.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Oh I remember your question that I missed.

    SURE I will sell you my old Firestones, nothing but the best for a Tacoma!
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Thank you cpsounr, as I value your comments. After all that's why I asked you guys.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    that someday, you may be out in the wilds, stuck, and the only thing to pull you out is a Nissan.

    "Hey, that truck looks like vince's. . ."

    Speaking of stuck trucks, anyone here of the 2 Texans here in Colorado that went off the posted trail, found themselves in trundra, where they are not suppose to be, on a 70 degree sloped mountain?
    New jeep and Dodge p/u are sitting there today, forest service says move em or we will, Amry helos say they are too heavy to haul out at 12,500 ft and the only helo capable is in Oregan, $9,000 and hour to rent.

    Dim witted Texan's. . .

    I can scan and post the story if anyone is intereste, what NOT to do when you go off-road.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I say force em to dismantle the vehicles. . .except they say the slope is so bad you cannot stand on it very well. Serious lesson time is due here. . .
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I say make those idiots carry the trucks out themselves piece by piece with nothing more than a backpack.

    BTW, what is "trundra"? Trouble? Tundra? Trouble + Tundra? :oD
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Yeah, they seem to think it's their state.

    I remember in Pagosa springs Colorado, there was a sign on the highway on the eastern entrance to town. It read:

    "Texans go home".

    Then I saw a sign on the west entrance of town that read:

    "Californians go home".
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    in Pagosa Springs?

    Seriously, those guys have got EVERY and I do mean every 4 Wheel Driver group in Colo. totaly behind the Forest service.

    I will scan that article and see if it comes out.
    Post it tonight.

    I say torch the vehicles, make the owners watch.

    Well when you drive right by a sign, "No motor vehicles beyond this point" there is no sympathy if you do.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    It was early and I had not had my 2nd cup of coffee. . .
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    notice how the toyota owners dont think safety is important. or deffend thier vehicles in the same way that the ford owners defend the rangers offroad ability.. we are all equally closed minded here LOL
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611

    I will keep them up for a week or so, they are large files so cannot keep forever.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    That like explains it.

    Hey, them BF Goodrich TA KO's reeeeeally hold!
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    And we all equally don't know what the hell you're talking about????
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    You don't go offtrail i nthe SAn Juan mountains. Bad move dudes. Some even say the "Ghost Grizzly" still roams those mountains........
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I have yet to see one, I mean ONE Frontier out where I go or have been.. Heck, I see ten times more Toyota's, GM's and Dodge products than I do Nissan's.
    Saftey is a factor for people when they buy a vehicle. Most sites do rate the RAnger better in crash tests than its competition.
    I would rather walk than get pulled out by a Nissan! Heck a Nissan could'nt make it where I go its V6 is too weak! Much less pull me out LOL. I'd rather be pulled out by a Tacoma! Yikes! I can't believe I just typed that...
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    Your automotive caste system is a little scary.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Don't stray off the topic, little guy(it's not fair to these guys) You've never driven a Nissan, what do you know? The only two trucks you've ever owned were two Rangers! You only have experience with one vehicle and it shows everytime you post something on all of these topics. That's why NOBODY gives you any credit! Anyway if you want to debate me on the Nissan, like you say let's take it to the proper topic. These guys don't want to be bored with your typical comments especially on a vehicle they don't care to argue about. Thank You Have A Nice Day, j/k!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    You guys in your Nissans decided to come over here and stir the pot! You don't even own a Toyota, yet you try and try to bring Nissan into a room where Noone cares about Nissans they are at the bottom of the food chain in this truck category.. LOL! I am in the Nissan room also if you haven't checked yet..
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    ABC morning news, 8.8.00

    Ford motor company had a lawsuit filed against it for putting faulty tires on Ford Explorers and Rangers, which are believed to be responsible for 49 deaths.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    You're sooooo cool Vince8! You think by ragging on the Nissan and saying a couple of nice things about the Toyota your going to sway everyone on this topic to your side, your probably wrong. Just by reading the discussions here and seeing their responses to you(Ranger owners too)I give them much more credit than you obviously do. A suggestion to you just sit back and watch how a real discussion operates.
  • xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    Any news on those guys who had their vehicles stuck on that 70% slope up near Silverton? Just wondering...
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147

    looks like firetone is taking the responsibility.

    toyota's also come with the wilderness line as well so it not just ford...
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    Last Saturday a bunch of 4-wheelers from Durango came to the rescue and winched/pulled/shoved the two trucks back to the top of the mountain where they could be driven down the way they came up.

    Turns out the trucks wound up on private property (an old mining claim) and the BLM was able to step away from the mess.

    The Texans apparently "misread" their map, and then apparently threw common sense out the window.

    There's a lesson here for all off-roaders: It may not be wise to go where no man has gone before.
  • xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    Thanks for the info. Man, what a disaster! I hope none us ever find themselves in a situation like that...
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    I sure wouldn't want to go through an experience like that. I have 4-wheeled (in an '89 Toyota PU) the area around Animas Forks where this took place and there are some really tough trails there WITHOUT trying to make a new one.

    In that area I encountered a guy carrying his fixed flat tire back to his truck (he had TWO flats). I offered him a ride back to his vehicle, but after a mile or so on an easy road, I saw the trail he had gone up (by himself). I had to decline my offer. It was one of the worst trails I have ever seen. Steep and FULL of sharp rocks. Not even on the map. My wife and I were alone and I had no desire to copy his problems. He only had about 1/2 mile left to go when I chickened out. It would have been a very long hike back to Silverton.

    Those Texans are 1) truly lucky to be alive and 2) thankful there are some good samaritans out there.
  • hulk66hulk66 Member Posts: 37
    Way to go ford for putting those safety tires on your trucks! As i heard from VINCE8 safety is an important factor. Well i guess those rangers are pretty safe then!! What a joke!! See how long for the recall on those tires. Glad i drive on my goodyears on my safe tacoma! Firestone is junk anyway. I have not seen wilderness tires on toyotas yet (scotssss). I don't think toyota even puts those tires on their vehicles. Anybody know for sure??
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Well, if you can't read somebody's link, then we'll just have to spoon feed it to you.

    "The tires have been original equipment on Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru vehicles for several years"

    As far as your "safe tacoma"... Well, I'm not gonna go there again. You can read back on the links yourself.
  • hulk66hulk66 Member Posts: 37
    So touchy!!! what vehicles does toyota have these firestone tires on?? Never seen them on any i know. Lot of them on the explorers and some navajos.
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    Cannot find a link but, all of the TV coverage i have seen on the Firestone tire issue says that ford is the largest Purchaser of the affected tires. Then Also list GM, Subaru, Nissan, and Toyota.

    i believe the Tacoma w/o the 31" tires come with wilderness AT's as well.

    Also like to point out the recall is only one the p235/75 R15 tires are being recalled.. So the larger ones found on "offroad" rangers and smaller ones found on XL models were not effected.

    I will try to find a link
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    "The recall covers size P235/75R15 in all the ATX, ATXII and some Wilderness AT tires that are currently in use on some of the nation's most popular SUVs. The tires have been original equipment on Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru vehicles for several years, but most accidents reported to traffic safety officials have involved the best selling Ford Explorer. An estimated 60-to-70 percent of the recalled tires are on the Explorer and its twin Mercury Mountaineer models."

    60-70% ford products... wonder what percentage were on toyotas???

    Point being, its a Firestone Issue, not a ford issue. Also most users in this forum admit the firestones were junk anyway.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Its amazing how the anti-Ford crowd is turning this tire issue into a Ford thing. Ford is being singled out because they use them on more vehicles. This is a Firestone issue not a Ford issue. And as I have said over and over again. The Firestones put on Rangers are a joke. The ones I had were a 4ply tire@!! For offroad this is a huge no, no. I admit Ford screwed up when coming to the table with tires for their Rangers. That is why I dumped mine and bought an 8ply P265x75R16 all terrain. This made a huge difference in the trucks climbing, tracking and grabbing ability on terrain. Even with having to buy new tires I was still thousands ahead of a comparably equipped Toyota!!
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Well the link is down right now but I had a link to a JeepsUnlimited site. It showed the whole area from ABOVE where the Jeep and Dodge was.

    Wish it was still there as it REALLY showed why there is a significant difference between an east coast mountains and a Colorado mountain.

    12,500 ft, no trees to winch to, just rocks, air thin as the moon and man was that steep. As we know, pictures do not show how bad it really was, but man did it look bad.

    As I understand it, they went to Silverton, rented a Jeep, bought out all the chains/straps available and were trying to do it themselves. They had stopped where they were because they were traversing the side of the mountain and were slipping sideways while trying to go forward.

    Anyway, I think it was the forest service guy, whipped up with his Hummer, and winched them out. He accepted no money for the job.

    Now THAT is the Colorado spirit!
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Where have you guys been? It is a Ford issue!!! Ford has been settling claims out of court for several years and covering up the problem with a "hush" clause so that the information wouldn't get out. It also seems to be prevalent on the Explorer so Ford certainly should have stopped using them on that vehicle but they didn't. Ford has also replaced the tires in other countries previously because of the problem. As I said, Ford knew about the problem but chose to cover it up and continue to use the tires. There is really no defense, no matter how hard you guys try. The only reason you're seeing a recall is because the independent news investigations exposed Ford's cover-up.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Well, why didn't GM, Subaru, Toyota, or Nissan step and stop using the tires, issue recalls, and inform the public that they might be dangerous?

    Don't be so brand-blind that you can't see what's happening here. It's the exact same reason Ford didn't do so either.

    Money. Plain and simple.

    No car manufacturer really gives two hoots about their customers. They only care that their cars are selling well and their costs (COGS, lawsuits, etc...) are down.

    Do you really think that Toyota (or any of the other manufacturers) puts your best interests in mind when building their vehicles? If they did, we'd all be driving super-safe, super-efficient, and super-reliable vehicles. Unfortunately, they don't, so we aren't.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Some of your statements may be true about other manufacturers, however, that may make you feel better about Ford but it doesn't change the facts. If Ford had any decency, they would have at least stopped using the tires on new Explorers. Also, the fatalities seem to be exclusive to the Explorer. No matter how you try to stick up for Ford in this case, it's hitting deaf ears. You can't even admit Ford is screwing up when they're killing people. Amazing.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    It appears all the deaths from these faulty tires were with FORD vehicles. That says alot......

    48 fatalities due to cehap tires on Explorers? This is an OUTRAGE!!!

    My heart and thoughts go out to those poor families who lost loved ones because a company took the cheap way out. Kind of like firing Amercian workers on Christmas and then moving plants to mexico and Canada so they can save a buck........
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    I have never seen a Toyota with anything but Dunlaps or Goodyear. Not saying they do not exist but never seen them.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    And making a truck that can get better than a one star crash rating is responsible?

    What does that one star mean? Something like a 40% chance of a fatality in a crash exceeding 35mph?

    Feel free to try and reason it away. It's still gonna be there.

    I'm not defending Ford. What would you have them do? Should they call in every vehicle they've made if a part fails and causes a crash?
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    If you're not trying to defend Ford then you're fooling lots of people. Toyota certainly should be working to improve their side impact tests but I don't think you can find one case where Toyota paid people off to cover up their crash tests as Ford was doing with the tires. All that aside anyway, when we were kids we tried to get away with things justifying our actions by stating that so and so did the same thing all the time. Most of us have grown out of that and have learned to take responsibility for our actions. Ford deliberately covered up and continued using tires that could have easily been changed. It really doen't matter if another company has done a similar cover up. Ford is at fault this time and you guys need to come to terms with that rather than try to justify it. Ford got caught and the Ford lovers are being ridiculous trying to place all the blame on Firestone or continuing to point out problems with other vehicles to appease themselves. Some of you guys that own Fords act like you're in some kind of Ford cult or something. Boy talk about die hard Toyota fans. You guys make the Toyota fans look mild. As I said before, amazing.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I've seen Firestone P265's on PreRunners out here in Calif. I don't know if they're ATX or Wilderness models though and I haven't heard of any problem with that size anyway. The information I have is that the problem is only with the P235's for some reason.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I either got in the EXPLORER room


    the FIRESTONE room


    the American business it bad and is only after the almighty buck and s***w the consumer room.

    The facts are to this moment:

    1. The problem is on the 235 75 R15 tires only. The tires effected are the ATX series and


    Wilderness At's in an Ill. plant (Hmmm where does spoog live?) and again, ONLY the 235 size tires. There is a code in the tire that tells if it is from that plant.

    Also, have seen NO reports of RANGERS (remember what the topic is?) having tire failure fatalities. But Ford does install those tires on Rangers.

    If anyone wants to vent spleen, vent it on Firestone for recalling these tires in foreign countries and not in the USA. THAT is bad but in no way a Ford issue.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    how do you explain roughly an 18% DECREASE in the price of the Tacoma.

    Such loss of profit has to take a bite out of something in the process.

    Maybe the flimsy bumpers and/or the fact they made a management decision to move to Fremont to assemble the truck due to cheaper and I believe, non-union labor.
This discussion has been closed.