The 32V 5.4 get's 11 mpg? It's numbers are 12/17 for the 6000lb box they call a Navigator. The 32V version of the 4.6 gets the same mileage as the 2V in the Mustang, so I wouldn't think that the mileage of the Navigator engine would be any worse than the 5.4 Triton, if it was in a truck. If you look at the Expedition numbers it gets one mpg better but it weighs 500 lbs less. As far as your post goes you say the 6.0 is getting 15-16 mpg in 2wd's yet later in the same post you say that the 6.0 would get 13-15 if it was in a 1/2 ton. Would it get worse mileage in a lighter smaller truck? That's weird. I'll admit Ford really doesn't have anything that competes with the 6.0. The 5.4 is smaller and possibly the 32V version could. The V10 is bigger and outperforms it, so NO Ford doesn't have anything to compare to the 6.0. Does Chevy have anything to compare to the V10? No. The 6.0 will get eaten and the 8.1 is a monster. They shouldn't be compared.
F150: As far as I know all FOMOCO vehicles are LEV's except for the Lightning (which is supposed to be by next year), so I don't think they are worried about emmissions concerning the Navigator engine.
Sorry about that mileage quoting above. I got them backwards...thinking before typing...yada yada.
GM does have something to compare to the ford and Dodge v10---the 454. Puts out the same hp and torque and gets about the same mileage.
I'd say that they are the same class, Bigsnag, are you saying the 454 (for one more month) does not compare to the Ford 6.8 and neither does the new 8.1?
Why shouldn't the 8.1 be compared to the 6.8, if it put in the same class of truck, 3/4 HD on up to 1 1/2 ton.
For the Navigator mileage, i didn't know the sticker, but have read two mags that both said the mileage was just atrocious. Maybe they weren't broken in engines yet. I was assuming they just cammed it and poured the fuel to it to get the hp out of it.
The LEV is impressive for an entire line of engines. CAFE is the reason the Navigator engine won't go in the F150, same as why the 6.0 won't get put in 1500.
Well, then. Let's compare the 6.0 to the 6.8 then. They are both going to be in the same class truck. Would that be fair? No! My point was that Ford offers something that Chevy doesn't have anything to compare to and Chevy offers some things that Ford does have anything to compare to. That's the beauty of it all. As to the Navigator engine. It's not cammed up, if it were it would have the Cobra heads and Cobra cams on it and be putting out about 380 hp. The difference is, the 4V heads are so much more efficient than 2V heads. As to the CAFE issue, Ford hasn't been under the gun about CAFE like GM has. Even if they were, you can see that by my post above that the 4V engines are not less fuel efficient than the 2V engines. Look at the GT vs. Mustang or the Expedition vs. Navigator. The mileages are almost identical. The difference of 1 mpg on the Expy vs. Nav could be attributed to the difference in weight. Even if it did get 1 mpg worse in an identical vehicle, that could be taken care of by a set of gears. Ford could sell most of the 4V engines with 3.55's instead of 3.73's. That would put their mpg at least even and you'd never miss the low gearing with the higher torque and hp engine.
I also believe the V10 HAS to be compared to the 8.1 just as when I debated with you that the 6.0 HAD to be compared to the V10. If that is what they offer in 1/2's or 3/4's or HD's or whatever, then they must be compared.
I sleep very good as well...big time snores...(just ask my wife)....LOL
I live and breathe the automotive scene...being here in the motor city...I deal with many places in the auto industry...as well as know many people who work in the biz...
I drink beers with the people who directly test GM engines....and long before the New silverado came out...I was having beers on the back deck and talking about the new 6.0 Chevy had coming out...
The torture tests were unreal....Freeze a block for a week....start it up....run Wide open throttle for 2 weeks...(that's right ..weeks)....then shut it down and freeze it again...
I believe the 6.0 can take heat.....I didn't say it would outdo a V-10...that would be physically impossible....but it comes damn close...and is farr better than any small block Ford ever made..
I know Ford sells more trucks..(maninly to cheaper price)...and I give them credit.....but face the fact...the 6.0 is an awesome mid-level engine..
and I'd put my 3/4 against any Ford 3/4......it would make a hell of a match...
Bigsnag My whole theory why the 6.0 really never deserves comparison to the ford v10 was this:
1) they were NOT in comparable trucks--they were in GM's 3/4 LD--comparable w/ the old F250LD. and in the GM HD's it will be the base v8, Just like Ford's 5.4. GM always sold a bigger truck with the 350 and 454 that was in the Superduty class.
2) There has ALWAYS been a bigger engine available--a big block v8.
Also, for posted reasons, i always thought the Navigator got considerably worse mileage than the Expy. i guess they are pretty close, if your info is correct.
The new Vortecs will BY FAR outpull the old 350. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about now. The 350 has a great mid range torque curve, but does not offer the long flat torque range that the new Vortecs do.
These were your words: "The 350 has better torque and had more possibilities for power than the new models by far. "
Do you realize that the Vortec 6.0 has MORE TORQUE FROM 1500-4500 RPMS than the old 350 had AT PEAK!!!
Unrefutable proof. oh, and by the way, the 6.0 also has more torque from 2000 to 4000 rpms than that pesky 5.4 does at its peak.
You are way out in left field do. the new engines from GM are a huge improvement over everyone's. They are proof that DOHC don't make the engine. its the whole package.
You are right, the numbers don't lie, I just showed you.
The 8.1 will kill everything else on the road.
The 8.1 has 40 more hp, 50 more ft lbs of torque, and IMPROVED gas mileage over both the 454 and the Ford v10 and the Dodge v10.
And you call it outdated?
time to lay off the wacky weed. You used to be civil.
mgdvhman all of the manufactures torture their engines like that.I live in alaska and every year we get car manufacture from everywhere coming up here to Fairbanks to do cold weather testing on their new models.Normally they get here in January and stay until mid Feb.and they beat the entire vehicle to hell the ambient temperature here may never get above -50F all day and they start the engines (barely) and run around town and then take them up the haul road (a 600 mile dirt road from Fairbanks to Cold Foot) these trucks are junk when they are done with them.Every once in a while you get a chance to talk to the people doing the testing and for the most part they are all impressed with the trucks. I know that this was off the subject but I thought I would share it with you anyway.
in my boat. It's based on the 454 but with siamese cylinders for a more rigid block. It's also a Mark IV bow tie block which for reasons I can't explain is preferred by the big time off shore engine builders.
What's the specs of the 8.1? I've heard it was based on the 454 also. Does it have the canted valves of the 454/502. Siamesed blocks of the 502? The reason I'm asking is if it does it sounds to me like a "new" 454 as opposed to the ground up re-do of the LS1 based motors. If it has all new retooling there'd be nothing wrong with that.
he tells me they see engines come in once....blow 'em...and they are never seen again...then there was the 6.0 that kept coming in over and over....they were not the ones to tweak them...they just were given them to torture..
I'm not saying it's the ultimate engine ever...but I have been told "if I can only tell you one thing about the new Silverado....it's get a 6.0"
so I did
I'm sure they all test hard....but this is what I have heard first hand...I don't try to get the inside scoop on Ford....so don't have input
Mod I think the 8.1 is more of a re-done 454. The stengthened up the lower end of the 454, and applied a lot of the LS1 technology from the decks up. Also incorporates computerized cylinder cut-out, for economy.
The engine is a 'stroked' 454.
I've seen details somewhere, like Pop mechanics, or something. I'll dig a little...you've got me curious now.
The bottom line is what YOU are willing to spend your hard earned money on!
I compared all 4 makes very carefully, & selected the Chevy Silverado to buy. I'm very happy with my truck & would buy another one if this one was written off in a accident.
Many Ford owners point out that Ford outsells Chevy - facts are facts. How many V-10 's 3/4 tons trucks does Ford sell? How many 6.0L's does GM sell. I see 10 6.0L's for every 1 V-10. I am not talking about the PSD they are everywhere. If the V-10 is so good why are there not more of them around? Could it be because anyone that wants the best Ford engine for heavy use gets the PSD? It will be interesting to see what impact the new 8.1 L and diesel engine has on the heavy duty market. My guess - GM will take some sales away from Ford, but not enough to outsell them.
Do you have any numbers? As mentioned before the Motorhome market seems to be dominated by the V10. I'd guess 80% of class C's and maybe more for the gas class A's. The more expensive class A's, of course, run the Cats and Allisons.
I will admit the 8.1 will cut into those figures. and while I've seen a few straggler 7.4's(454) I've NEVER seen a 6.0.
I have looked at one of the magazines that compare the F150 and Chevy Silverado. The Ford had 3:55 and the Chevy a 3:73. In the test they mentioned the RPM at 60 MPH. The Chevy was cranking only 1700 RPM and the Ford 1800 RPM. Obviously you would think since the Chevy has the taller gear its RPM would be much higher than the Ford. It appears that the final drive ratio for a Chevy 4:10 and Ford 3:55 would be the same. Changing the gears in the Ford to match those of what are in the Chevy would be a misnomer. Tire size, transmission and rear end gearing determine final drive ratio.
..yeah the 5.4 has much less displacement than the 6.0...as does the 6.0 VS thge V-10.....but you just can't admit the fact it's a hell of a small block..can you? Nobody said it would outdo the V-10....just come close....which makes you wonder how lame Fords engines really are.....
Chevy seems to have skipped the V-10 Idea...due to how lame it has worked for ford and dodge...
oh well....who cares?....not me...I don't want one anyway..
Ford fans seem to be the hard heads who can't see the light here...
I meant in a motor home. BTW I think the 6.0 is a good engine. This is one of those discussions like which came first; the chicken or the egg. I think the Ford guys think the GM guys were saying the 6.0 out does the V10 and vice versa. I think they both do the job admirably in the application they are used for.
engines in their 3/4 tons....the C/K body style has been available all the time GM had had the new silverado....now it's complete and the bigger engines in 3/4 tons...in the new Body are available...Ford had a transition period...so did Chevy...now It's done...
But this may take even longer to understand....I'll sit back now and wait for you to catch up
"I'm saying a smaller engine can run with a V-10...and you seem to think I'm saying it's better...
...hmmmm"
When a few people have pointed out that the V10 is in motorhomes and the 6.0 isn't. How is that running with a bigger engine?
I'll agree the 6.0 stays with a Ford or dodge V10 up to a certain weight just like I think the V10 stays with the diesel to a certain weight. I think it's when you get to the BIG loads where the 6.0 will start to fall behind.
I've seen you defend your 6.0 against the 5.3 and it's really the same argument; The 5.3 will do 80-90% of a 6.0.
..nobocy seems to realize I didn't say it would stay with it all the way....but for a small block with 2 less Cyl...it puts up a good run....I'd compare something else..but that's the closest these two can get....
Look at it the other way...a small block V-8 mostly keeps up with you V-10.....looks worse that way..
reality...i don't care..Gm's new engines in the Silverado Body style put it back on top once again...in all engine configs...
I guess we're saying the same things as you look back at the posts. It's when you use the word "lame" and "1 out of a thousand so it must not be any good" that gets people defensive. I haven't conceded the to the 8.1 yet. I have to believe that Ford will tweak the V10 a few more HP and torque like they did from '99 to '00.
You are kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you post about Ford " Should it matter how it is delivered as long as it is inexpensive, reliable and delivers what is needed for the job????" Then latter in the SAME post you refer to GM "GM hasn't done crap in the Engineering dept. for years and they still rely on old, nearly outdated technology in even their "new" designs" (which BTW will out perform the new Ford technology) It seems to me if it is Ford you don't care how they get the added performance - take any short cut they can as long as it delivers, but if GM does the same thing it is crap. This seems like a double standard to me.
Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against "them" and I can understand his not wanting his true identity to be seen by Meredith. I have had several discussions with each of them with no exchange of personal attacks. Though some may disagree, I think that his personal attacks is what really gives him away...
Back to the truck issues so that this post doesn't get deleted. Has anyone observed whether the '01 Silverado 1500 have started to arrive at the dealers in quantity? I've seen only a couple on the lots here in my area and was wondering when I should expect more...
f150 says: "I think you all just come up with this nonsense when you don't have anything worthwhile to post." and yet in the same post: "I have sent several emails to this hull guy but he refuses to return my emails. I will get this guy to come back here somehow and prove just how misinformed you all are."
f150 - who cares? really. you're posts are so double-standard laced that i've gotten to the point where i scroll past most of them. i am interested in your response to #275 though...how you justify ford doing "whatever it takes" on one hand, and then bashing on chevy for doing the same...
you describe yourself the best, though: "All brand loyal garbage and little substancy." and i'm actually GIVING you the "little"...
reading your posts reminds me of watching someone vomit...ugly and meaningless
wow, a little vacation, and this is what i come back to?
F150rules you are using a double standard for your arguements. Not one person here, except yourself, is denying it. Bco, Tim and Oby pointed it out nicely. Do i need to? No, that would be like talking to a brick...
Ford has only untapped 1/3 of the 5.4's power? please. Reference back patting.
I NEVER SAID THE 5.3 WAS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE 5.4. I see you have put many words in my mouth in my absence.
"The 6.0 is not all that impressive for a 3/4 ton." The numbers beg to differ:
3/4 tons CURRENT small block:
GM 6.0 vs Fords 5.4 300 hp vs 260 hp, same torque -The Ford is what I would not call impressive...
Bigblocks GM 7.4/8.1 vs Ford 6.8 vs Dodge 8.0 300 hp/340 hp vs 300 hp vs 300 hp -looks like a pretty dern level playing field to me.
But you argue the v10 vs 6.0 in a 3/4 ton...why is that....the only way to 'win'.
I think everyone wins.
Remember, selective reading is what made Rwell look like..well,...
I think you got to read Edmund's user agreement and guess which one you violated. I mean some posters can get away with calling other forum members moron, stupid, and the likes and yet it doesn't get deleted...go figure...
And, after the kegs, can you remember what you had posted?...LOL
As I had posted earlier. I have no problems with you. Your timing, your identity, your style of writing and the brand of truck you are driving all leads up to one thing...If I'm wrong, you have my apologies...and as I've posted earlier. Time will tell...and the personal attacks...well, ZBAD was noted for that one...
Comments
As far as your post goes you say the 6.0 is getting 15-16 mpg in 2wd's yet later in the same post you say that the 6.0 would get 13-15 if it was in a 1/2 ton. Would it get worse mileage in a lighter smaller truck? That's weird.
I'll admit Ford really doesn't have anything that competes with the 6.0. The 5.4 is smaller and possibly the 32V version could. The V10 is bigger and outperforms it, so NO Ford doesn't have anything to compare to the 6.0. Does Chevy have anything to compare to the V10? No. The 6.0 will get eaten and the 8.1 is a monster. They shouldn't be compared.
F150:
As far as I know all FOMOCO vehicles are LEV's except for the Lightning (which is supposed to be by next year), so I don't think they are worried about emmissions concerning the Navigator engine.
Is it 7.3L?
GM does have something to compare to the ford and Dodge v10---the 454. Puts out the same hp and torque and gets about the same mileage.
I'd say that they are the same class, Bigsnag, are you saying the 454 (for one more month) does not compare to the Ford 6.8 and neither does the new 8.1?
Why shouldn't the 8.1 be compared to the 6.8, if it put in the same class of truck, 3/4 HD on up to 1 1/2 ton.
For the Navigator mileage, i didn't know the sticker, but have read two mags that both said the mileage was just atrocious. Maybe they weren't broken in engines yet. I was assuming they just cammed it and poured the fuel to it to get the hp out of it.
The LEV is impressive for an entire line of engines. CAFE is the reason the Navigator engine won't go in the F150, same as why the 6.0 won't get put in 1500.
As to the Navigator engine. It's not cammed up, if it were it would have the Cobra heads and Cobra cams on it and be putting out about 380 hp. The difference is, the 4V heads are so much more efficient than 2V heads. As to the CAFE issue, Ford hasn't been under the gun about CAFE like GM has. Even if they were, you can see that by my post above that the 4V engines are not less fuel efficient than the 2V engines. Look at the GT vs. Mustang or the Expedition vs. Navigator. The mileages are almost identical. The difference of 1 mpg on the Expy vs. Nav could be attributed to the difference in weight. Even if it did get 1 mpg worse in an identical vehicle, that could be taken care of by a set of gears. Ford could sell most of the 4V engines with 3.55's instead of 3.73's. That would put their mpg at least even and you'd never miss the low gearing with the higher torque and hp engine.
I live and breathe the automotive scene...being here in the motor city...I deal with many places in the auto industry...as well as know many people who work in the biz...
I drink beers with the people who directly test GM engines....and long before the New silverado came out...I was having beers on the back deck and talking about the new 6.0 Chevy had coming out...
The torture tests were unreal....Freeze a block for a week....start it up....run Wide open throttle for 2 weeks...(that's right ..weeks)....then shut it down and freeze it again...
I believe the 6.0 can take heat.....I didn't say it would outdo a V-10...that would be physically impossible....but it comes damn close...and is farr better than any small block Ford ever made..
I know Ford sells more trucks..(maninly to cheaper price)...and I give them credit.....but face the fact...the 6.0 is an awesome mid-level engine..
and I'd put my 3/4 against any Ford 3/4......it would make a hell of a match...
can't we all just get along???
LOL
- Tim
My whole theory why the 6.0 really never deserves comparison to the ford v10 was this:
1) they were NOT in comparable trucks--they were in GM's 3/4 LD--comparable w/ the old F250LD. and in the GM HD's it will be the base v8, Just like Ford's 5.4. GM always sold a bigger truck with the 350 and 454 that was in the Superduty class.
2) There has ALWAYS been a bigger engine
available--a big block v8.
Also, for posted reasons, i always thought the Navigator got considerably worse mileage than the Expy. i guess they are pretty close, if your info is correct.
You are getting to Rwell's level of logic. You aren't even getting close to what I'm talking about; just going off on tangents.
Don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back.
RMFAOOTF!!!
- Tim
These were your words:
"The 350 has better torque and had
more possibilities for power than the new models
by far. "
Do you realize that the Vortec 6.0 has MORE TORQUE FROM 1500-4500 RPMS than the old 350 had AT PEAK!!!
see for yourself:
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/vortec_silver/60_torque.htm
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/vortec_silver/57_torque.htm
Unrefutable proof. oh, and by the way, the 6.0 also has more torque from 2000 to 4000 rpms than that pesky 5.4 does at its peak.
You are way out in left field do. the new engines from GM are a huge improvement over everyone's. They are proof that DOHC don't make the engine. its the whole package.
You are right, the numbers don't lie, I just showed you.
The 8.1 will kill everything else on the road.
The 8.1 has 40 more hp, 50 more ft lbs of torque, and IMPROVED gas mileage over both the 454 and the Ford v10 and the Dodge v10.
And you call it outdated?
time to lay off the wacky weed. You used to be civil.
I know that this was off the subject but I thought I would share it with you anyway.
What's the specs of the 8.1? I've heard it was based on the 454 also. Does it have the canted valves of the 454/502. Siamesed blocks of the 502? The reason I'm asking is if it does it sounds to me like a "new" 454 as opposed to the ground up re-do of the LS1 based motors. If it has all new retooling there'd be nothing wrong with that.
I'm not saying it's the ultimate engine ever...but I have been told "if I can only tell you one thing about the new Silverado....it's get a 6.0"
so I did
I'm sure they all test hard....but this is what I have heard first hand...I don't try to get the inside scoop on Ford....so don't have input
- Tim
I think the 8.1 is more of a re-done 454. The stengthened up the lower end of the 454, and applied a lot of the LS1 technology from the decks up. Also incorporates computerized cylinder cut-out, for economy.
The engine is a 'stroked' 454.
I've seen details somewhere, like Pop mechanics, or something. I'll dig a little...you've got me curious now.
.
.
.
..
GMC Of course..........I know I know...... it's a sister of the Chevy, but there are some differences!
My heart is with the GMC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I compared all 4 makes very carefully, & selected the Chevy Silverado to buy. I'm very happy with my truck & would buy another one if this one was written off in a accident.
Buy what works for YOU !
150's 1500's 1500's and Tundras
With # of 4 x 2's and # of 4 x 4's
250's 2500's 2500's
4 x 2's vs 4 x 4's
350's 3500's 3500'
4 x 2's vs 4 x 4's
450's
I have noticed a lot more 4x4's in the last few years, than I ever saw before.
Harry
I will admit the 8.1 will cut into those figures. and while I've seen a few straggler 7.4's(454) I've NEVER seen a 6.0.
Chevy seems to have skipped the V-10 Idea...due to how lame it has worked for ford and dodge...
oh well....who cares?....not me...I don't want one anyway..
Ford fans seem to be the hard heads who can't see the light here...
- Tim
I'm saying a smaller engine can run with a V-10...and you seem to think I'm saying it's better...
...hmmmm
lemme know when you catch on to what we are talking about here...
- Tim
Good luck on this one now.
Dean
But this may take even longer to understand....I'll sit back now and wait for you to catch up
LOL
- Tim
V-10...and you seem to think I'm saying it's
better...
...hmmmm"
When a few people have pointed out that the V10 is in motorhomes and the 6.0 isn't. How is that running with a bigger engine?
I'll agree the 6.0 stays with a Ford or dodge V10 up to a certain weight just like I think the V10 stays with the diesel to a certain weight. I think it's when you get to the BIG loads where the 6.0 will start to fall behind.
I've seen you defend your 6.0 against the 5.3 and it's really the same argument; The 5.3 will do 80-90% of a 6.0.
Look at it the other way...a small block V-8 mostly keeps up with you V-10.....looks worse that way..
reality...i don't care..Gm's new engines in the Silverado Body style put it back on top once again...in all engine configs...
Does Ford have a 460 in a 3/4?
- Tim
The 8.1 VS the V-10
The Duramax VS the powerstroke....
I see all 3 catagories as GM having the edge in 3/4's.....do you?
- Tim
Ford doesn't even offer the Big block any more...do they?....it's the V-10 or nuttin'?
- Tim
"THE BEST NEVER REST"
I hate to upset people.....I think we all need world peace....mean people are...well..just plain mean..
LOL
- Tim
it matter how it is delivered as long as it is
inexpensive, reliable and delivers what is needed
for the job????" Then latter in the SAME post you refer to GM "GM hasn't done crap in the
Engineering dept. for years and they still rely on
old, nearly outdated technology in even their
"new" designs" (which BTW will out perform the new Ford technology) It seems to me if it is Ford you don't care how they get the added performance - take any short cut they can as long as it delivers, but if GM does the same thing it is crap. This seems like a double standard to me.
You are starting to sound like a Tundra owner.
I may have missed one in there somewhere.
His personality and writing style come shining through despite his best efforts to hide it.
Back to the truck issues so that this post doesn't get deleted. Has anyone observed whether the '01 Silverado 1500 have started to arrive at the dealers in quantity? I've seen only a couple on the lots here in my area and was wondering when I should expect more...
Swift...
"I think you all just come up with this nonsense
when you don't have anything worthwhile to post."
and yet in the same post:
"I have sent several emails to this hull guy but
he refuses to return my emails. I will get this
guy to come back here somehow and prove just how
misinformed you all are."
f150 - who cares? really. you're posts are so
double-standard laced that i've gotten to the point where i scroll past most of them. i am interested in your response to #275 though...how you justify ford doing "whatever it takes" on one hand, and then bashing on chevy for doing the same...
you describe yourself the best, though:
"All brand loyal garbage and little substancy." and i'm actually GIVING you the "little"...
reading your posts reminds me of watching someone
vomit...ugly and meaningless
bco
F150rules
you are using a double standard for your arguements. Not one person here, except yourself, is denying it. Bco, Tim and Oby pointed it out nicely. Do i need to? No, that would be like talking to a brick...
Ford has only untapped 1/3 of the 5.4's power? please. Reference back patting.
I NEVER SAID THE 5.3 WAS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE 5.4. I see you have put many words in my mouth in my absence.
"The 6.0 is not all that impressive for a 3/4 ton." The numbers beg to differ:
3/4 tons CURRENT small block:
GM 6.0 vs Fords 5.4
300 hp vs 260 hp, same torque
-The Ford is what I would not call impressive...
Bigblocks
GM 7.4/8.1 vs Ford 6.8 vs Dodge 8.0
300 hp/340 hp vs 300 hp vs 300 hp
-looks like a pretty dern level playing field to me.
But you argue the v10 vs 6.0 in a 3/4 ton...why is that....the only way to 'win'.
I think everyone wins.
Remember, selective reading is what made Rwell look like..well,...
Censorship sucks Meredith.....especially when you don't say anything wrong!
- Tim
And, after the kegs, can you remember what you had posted?...LOL
Dean
Base engine for Ford Now - 5.4...Chevy 6.0
Upgrade Now - V-10 and 454....soon to be 8.1
Diesel Now - Powerstroke and 6.5...soon to be Duramax
While the 8.1/Dura are not proven on the streets...I bet they baet Ford hands down...
so I see it as all catagorys...including base engine for a 3/4 that started this...Ford is the loser...
They will laways sell more due to cheaper prices and die hard fans that can't see beyond them blinders...
Tout your V-10 all you want...I'll put an older 454 or newer 8.1 against it any day..
Your turn...
..make that end of discussion....I don't need to hear any more...
- Tim
- Tim