Firestone Wilderness Tires

bristol123

I was at my local Chevy dealer yesterday checking out the tires on the new 2001 'ados. He had 10 or 12 new trucks in an auxilliary lot across the road from his main lot. There were no '01's on the main lot. I suppose they need to deplete the 00 inventory first before they stock it with competition. Anyhow, all the 4x4's with 265-16 tires came with Firestone Wilderness AT's (both black wall and white letter). The 4x4's equipped with on/off road 245-16 tires came with Firestone Steeltex AT's. In my opinion, this is a better looking tire with a more aggressive tread pattern. In addition, it seems to have a much better reputation the Wilderness AT's. So, if you want to avoid the 16 Inch Wilderness AT's, don't get your 4x4 with the 265-16 tires. I assume this also will apply to the GMC Sierra. I hope this will help some of you out there. This situation may change if GM finds they can't sell trucks with the Wilderness AT's on them. Has anyone seen any new trucks with 265-16's that aren't the Wilderness AT's?

John B

dustyone

<<This is why all companies warrant their product
with tires being excluded.>>

Except GM, they now warrant tires.
Dustyone

bookitty

When my wife purchased her new 1993 Toyota 4 Runner, it was equipped with Bridgestone 31X10.5X15 load range "C" tires. We rotated them every 6000 miles (alternate LOF)and when they had 35,000 miles, noticed that they had begun to show signs of dry rot. I figured that as they were OEM tires, perhaps they were stored under adverse conditions and had our service center order new Bridgestone tires and install, balance and align the vehicle. After about 34,000 miles, during routine rotation we again noticed the dry rot and called it to our servicenter's owner and operator. He confirmed that they indeed were dry rotted and explained that he had other Bridgestone
tires that were stricken with this problem and recommended contacting the distributor through him. The distributor offered a discount towards replacement, but we were not comfortable with this brand any longer. I had Bridgestone tires on other vehicles including several motorcycles but now I no longer deemed them to be safe. Instead, I bit the bullet and had my dealer install Cooper tires, the oldest tire company in America. We had them on her vehicle for 26,000 miles until we recently traded it in for a new 4 Runner, and the drove and looked like new. A great product and one that gave us a confident feeling regarding safety.

Bookitty

cdean

Bookitty,
personally, had a few bad experiences with Firestone, but have seen impeccable performance out of Bridgestones. Never had any dry rot. I've seen dozens of GYs dry rot, though.

I've never heard anything bad about Cooper, you should be alright.

joelis

"I'd bet you could run 75,000
miles at 28psi on Goodyears and not have the
problems Firestone is."

From years of experience with goodyears, they would never last that long. The tread would wear out at about 36,000 miles, and you'd be riding on rims by 40k.

The reason they went to Firestone is because the rubber is harder and last longer, but unfortunately I guess the glue or whatever bonds the tire together does not.

cdean

Roc
I'm going to disagree with you on that one. I just seen LOTS of tires blow when not operated at the full psi. granted, i'm talking about very heavy apps, but i see the passenger tires as being even weaker.

truckchic

Help me out guys and gals. My truck is due in the end of October and I'm sure (actually postive) that there will be Firestone tires on them. I actually wrote to GM to ask about my concerns with the Firestone issue and they sent me back a reply that wasn't really comforting. (if you want to see a copy of the reply, email me and I'll send you a copy).
Anyway, I'll probably wind up accepting the truck and taking it immediatley to a tire shop and have them swapped out. They are P265 tires. Any ideas what costs I'm looking at with going with Goodyear?

Thanks
Truckchic

bowhuntwi2

I'm running 68 lbs per tire in my 265's -16 SteelTex A/T's , they call for 80 lbs when your fully loaded...When I went to check after you asked I found not 1 that was the same, they went from 60 to 68, so I put all at 68.

rrichf

Dean,
My death-stones were the Steeltex Radial, LRE as you mentioned. Mine were early '98 vintage. Like I said, I could feel an occasional looseness (Oversteer tendency.) in the right rear in slow corners. If yours are relatively recent vintage, you should be OK. Just hang in there, eventually Firestone may have to recall ALL of their tires just to preserve their brand name.

This is the second time that Firestone has pulled this stonewall crap. They did the same thing in the late '70s. This time they're being burned by the speed of communications (Internet).

Look at it this way. A company builds an product that is intended to wear out. After a few years the company figures it out that there are some serious defects in the product. So the company applies a remedy and continues production. It is to the company's advantage to do nothing about the problem. Why? Because the product wears out and eventually goes away. When the product wears out and is disposed of or replaced the problem also goes away. Only this time, an increasingly aggressive government, bored lawyers looking for fat contingency fees on class actions claims and the speed of the internet has punched huge holes in the stone wall. At this point I have my doubts that Firestone will survive in the form that we know today.

Rich

obyone

seems like Firestone was shooting craps, took a chance and lost big time. I agree that the way Firestone functions, that they are destined for failure.

Dean

Rocles

joelis,

I was exaggerating. My point is that the "low" psi debate wouldn't be an issue with other brands of tires.

Rocles

cdean,

I've worked many years and witnessed many over-loads and have yet to see a blowout due to psi rating.

dusty,

Since when has GM warranted their tires under the product warranty? I find that hard to believe-especially for trucks.

dustyone

I'll be right back with the article from GM. I'll have to find it again. Does anyone have an owners manual handy where you can look up the warranty info in the back?

dustyone

http://www.foxmarketwire.com/090700a/tiredeaths_warnings.sml

Check this out for an interest article. This is where I got the idea that GM now warrants tires. My Firestone Wilderness AT had markings (TPC xxxx) that I have not found on other tires. This may be the GM spec.

ryanbab

Thanks for the info i put the link on the tahoe site.

Ryan

steve234

On my 91 F150SC, I ran Goodyears for the first two sets of tires. The first set was replaced at 55,000 miles and then ran on my nephew's pickup for another year. The second set lasted 60,000 miles before I hit a chughole and busted a sidewall cord. I put Bridgestones on because of a new dealer having a great sale. They lasted 40,000 miles and the truck started acting like it would come unglued. I am now back on Goodyears and enjoying the ride much more.

Rocles

dusty,

Interesting article but it shows that GM looks brilliant now but this practice is quite common. After the Firestone debacle--I'd bet most companies will alter their warranty deals.
With that said, tire companies won't be thrilled. This would mean that dealers-not their franchises--that would deal with complaints and replacement policies. They definately won't care for that.

dustyone

I think that for the present GM is denying that anything is wrong with the Firestone tires on their products and refuses to do anything about replacements since the Firestones were made according to the GM spec.
Some have been lucky to have their dealers replace the Firestones with something else, but my guess is that this will stop when the dealers have to suck up the cost since GM will not reimburse the dealer. If congress will only force the recall on all size Wilderness tires (ie, P265x75R16), then I will be able to transfer the tires from my basement to the recycle bin through Firestone and recoop my $400.

joelis

I'm going on my own experience with Goodyear Wranglers that were put on my '90 Chevy 4x4. I liked the looks of them, but they were so soft, I could never get any more than about 30k on a set. I wasn't exactly Mr. Lightfoot, but still...

I would assume that the rubber is not as soft these days.

steve234

Everyone has different experiences with tires. Like everything else, things change. 25 years ago, I would not buy BF Goodrich tires because of problems I saw with sidewall separation. Lately, I have been hearing how great the BFGs are for off-road and is considered top ranked. I still doubt that I would use BFGs for my next set, but would at least think about them. There are so many brands out there, my attitude is if you like a brand, stick with it as long as you feel comfortable.

desmchan

FYI, BF Goodrich did not sell tire for a decade. They sold the tire business to Michellin. Michellin is now doing the design and manufacture of BF Goodrich tire. However it doesn't guarantee anything. Bridgestone is behind Firestone too.

nrd525

Well, I've had enough heat from the right seat. I got a biger paycheck than I thought I was, (double time and a half on Labor Day!!) so I'm getting Michelins for my Z71. What clinched the deal was a set of Wilderness AT 265x75x16's that were at the tire store waiting for Firestone to pick them up, for "study". Two of the four had what looked like the tread "cap" starting to come off. Like a retread. The other two looked ok. They had about 35,000 miles on them. The manager of the tire store was the owner of the tires, he said they never were low on air,and almost all the 35K on them were highway miles, in a Expedition.
So, I'm going to stick them in the back of my garage,and wait till Fstone folds up, and recalls them. So , after Monday, no more "I don't want to go in your truck, I'm afraid of the tires!". Well, to be honest, after seeing the ones I saw, I'm not real comfortable with them either.

truckchic

Well, I've finally decided that when my new 2001 GMC Sierra comes in, If it has Firestone tires on them, I'm not keeping them. I'll bite the bullet and take them to the local Goodyear and swap them out. Maybe I'll get lucky and GM will decide to switch tires on their own and not put Firestone on the new factory orders. My truck is set to be in product the second week of October, so time will tell.

Truckchic

imhs2

Don't wait for GM/Ford/Firestone to take any initiatives. It's just not worth $600 to gamble with you and your friends'/families lives. Change your tires before you become the next statistic!!!

bowhuntwi2

The Generals Tires on the Lincoln Navigator has been recalled.

joelis

IMO, unless they are going to give me fair trade on the tires right now, its much more cost effective to look after the current ones by keeping the right amount of air pressure (36-40) in them and doing regular rotations, especially if they are still like new.

I think I'll take the money I save and buy some Michelin or goodyear stock. They must be laughing right now with the unplanned increased profit margins.

imhs2

I can tell you for a fact that the 265 70 R16 Wilderness LEs I just replaced at my own expense were made at the SAME FACTORY as the Wilderness ATs they have already RECALLED of the 235 70 R16 size (same DOT Codes). And Yes, if you check Firestone's web site you will see that 16 inch tires have been recalled - contrary to what GM told you.
I certainly would not trust GM on this issue. The fact is Firestone has produced an unsafe product. Now, nobody wants to bear the financial burden of correcting this - Firestone, GM, Ford etc. If I were you, I'd replace your tires. Why should you become a statistic? You might try to sell your old tires on e-bay to recoup some of your dollars - but, I bet you won't get any takers.

rrichf1

imhs2,
I think that Ford, by shutting 3 plants to make more tires available for the recall is putting some money into the process. Unfortunately I think that the Ford employees are bearing some of the brunt of the cost too.

Rich

bco

andrew,
thanks for the info. i found it hard to believe that the tires were all made at different plants as well. as for the 16", yes, there are some on recall, but unfortunately, they're not wilderness at's.

for those of you in the same boat i'm in (you have non-recalled deathstones that you want to get rid of) check out this link:

http://www.bridgestone-firestone.com/news/consumer/news/00803a.html

if you're tires aren't on recall, firestone WILL pro-rate you new ones, albeit bridgestones. but...you will get non-firestone tires, which at this point, for me, is good enough. i may even go to an independant tire dealer with brand new bridgestones and see if they'll pro-rate them on a set of new michelins...hmmmm???

bco

f150rules

Yep, them shakerados rattle and ROLL NOW TOO!!

GM isn't cooperating with replacement either. Great quality company that GM is! LOL!!

imhs2

a 70 size tire will make 31 revolutions more per mile when compared to a 75 size tire at a tread width of 265 millimeters. This corresponds to roughly 2-3 mph under-reading of your speedometer if you were to go with the larger (75) tire if your original tire was a 70. This is no big deal. The only thing that could possibly be affected is your ABS system. A dealer's service tech. could re-program your brakes ABS system if you experience any trouble. I've not had any trouble with mine since I went up to the 75 from the 70 size.

ryanbab

A 75 now might be a 70 afterwards

SO i am going 75 ---> 70

Ryan

bco

what is your motivation to stay with a "P" rated (passenger car) tire? you do a bit of hauling and hope to do some towing. go with the "LT" rated (light truck) tire, and you don't have to worry about the aspect ratio. or, if you want, wait a week and a half, till i get mine and let me convince you how good the LTs are...

bco

ryanbab

No i want the LT's (light truck) and not P (passeneger). Seem soft to me. I was just wondering about the 70 and 75 mostly. I looked and did some research and they are shorter and will throw things off. So hes either giving me the LT's (ill pay a little bit) or its a no go on new tires.


Ryan

bco

meet me over on tim's in chat...

he'll give you the lt's...they're not that much more expensive than the wilderness at's ($16/tire)

bco...heading to tim's now

silvercoupe

...on the way home from work today. The left front had blown out. Wonder if the 26 psi thing is causing more tire failures than anyone is willing to admit???? Firestone says yes, Ford says no. Who is right???

I never run less than 30 psi, no matter what the manual says.

Rocles

dusty,

Sorry I didn't reply promptly. I understand your concern about the stones on the GMs.

dave40

SPECIAL TO U.S.TRUCK FORCE MEMBERS NATIONWIDE
 
SUPER-SERIOUS RECALL OF FORD/FIRESTONE/BRIDGESTONE EXECUTIVE BRAINS
 
    From Big Dave-40's Executive Suite - an exclusive, startling tale from the First Amendment Grapevine.
    It seems that Ford Motor Company has put its big guns on the big tube to tell us that, "The Ford Family", stands behind all of its vehicles and won't stop until this Public Relations Debacle with Firestone and Bridgestone goes away ... kind of like the old Firestone 500 bedtime story.  Most of you probably remember it: "Get Rid of Your Mother-In-Law, Buy Her a Ford Pinto with Firestone 500's on It".
    Well,  Ford is doing its level best to lie to you the way you want to hear it.  How many Explorer owners were informed that their vehicle's tires were tested with (of all things) a Ford pick-up!!!  The Ford Guys knew they were killing off the "Family" for at least five years!!  It's been said that Firestone Workers and Management (along with Bridgestone) probably knew they were killing peeps (us'ns) for about ten Years before someone blew the whistle on them.  Even our fine Government had some data that showed serious flaws as the carnage went on unabated!!
    You might well ask, "What's next?"  Well, wonder no more. Through his Worldwide contacts at every level
involved - from the bars outside the Firestone and Bridgestone Factories right down to the Gross Pointe
(correct spelling for these vermin) Country Clubs where laughter at wicked, killing crashes was not unusual - Our Leader, Big Dave-40, has come upon the latest scuttlebutt that ya'll need to know.  THERE'S A GROUNDSWELL OF PUBLIC OPINION THAT IS NEARING TIDAL WAVE PROPORTIONS ...
IT'S A PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT TO RECALL ALL THE BRAINS BEHIND FORD, FIRESTONE AND BRIDGESTONE.  Let's face facts:  they need to be refitted or, at least, regrooved immediately.  Either they seek serious professional psychiatric help or they are out of the business for good.  Their sociopathic actions have killed too many.  Big Dave says, "Enough!"
They've got to go and get re-shrunk.  Get their Wives out of therapy and put them in post haste.
    We all know how lousy Ford pick-up trucks really are.  To use them as a test bed for killer tires to be mounted on that Toy called an "Explorer", is beyond insane.  These guys lied, cheated and killed all the way to the bank. NO MORE!!  There must be some fine print in the Explorer Owner's Manual that says, "not
for 'exploration' beyond your own driveway!!
    Hey Folks, these Ford Folks are nuts to think we believe their PR [non-permissible content removed].  Straight from the hearts of the leading PR Agencies in the World.  Just watch, they'll do everything in their power to do the least possible they have to do.  They'll never live up to Mr. Studebaker's Motto, "Give Them More Than They Expect",
except in the most macabre sense when they give you a $30,000. piece of crap with dollar store sneakers
and tell you that you can go crusin' the Interstate like you're drive a Pit Bull.  Well, the Pit Bull has gout and it's killing people still TODAY.  Let's join the Groundswell.  Write to Ford and tell them the Executives must go back to square one or go to jail -- no passing GO and no collecting anything but what they deserve, a high-speed ride in a Firestone equipped Explorer or Ford Pick-up "designed to act like one".  That won't be
hard, they already act like an aborted Yugo!!
    Write your Congressman, your Senator, the D.O.T., the Pres. and Hillary too.
    You are called to action, don't let this chance to right a wrong go by.  Remember, "There is nothing to insure the triumph of evil but that good men sit idly by and do nothing."  IT'S YOUR TURN, PUT YOUR SHOULDER TO THE BIG WHEELS AND PUSH 'EM OUT NOW!!!
 
                                                                                Yours For Safer Truckin',
 
 
                                                                                U.S.T.F. COMMANDER BIG DAVE-40

gpm5

Good write-up--keep on truckin.

nrd525

I saw this morning something about 16" tires on some Fords coming apart. Maybe it will put more heat on Fstone to recall ALL the Wilderness tires, without a long battle with the government and lawyers, and more people being killed.
I have 42 in the front of my Michelin LTX A/T's now, 38 in back, it handles a lot better then the Wilderness A/Ts did. Wet traction is a little better, dry seems a little worse(just a bit, need to put a few thou on them to really see). The main difference is that the truck seems a lot less "rubbery" than it did before,and going on the interstate is not generating comments from the right seat! I went 85 today on the interstate,and it was nice and smooth. Now, if they fix my rear window air leaks thursday morning, I'll be set for a trip or two...

jmscolorado

Barry,

I'm seriously considering purchasing a set of Michelin LTX A/Ts (LT265 75R16) to replace the Deathstones on my '99 Z71 too. (Like you, I need to quiet the front seat.) My other option is the Michelin LTX M/Ss in the same size. I'm really curious about the noise factor. Did you notice any increase in noise when you made the change? I've been told that the LTX M/Ss are quieter but I don't notice any noise now with the Deathstones so if the A/Ts are no louder I would like to go with them for the traction in the snow here in Colorado. Thanks in advance.

John

truckchic

Hi Everyone. Ok, I'm confused on the tires. I ordered P265/75R on my me 2001 GMC Sierra Z71. (I think I got the P265's) Anyway, lets go with that for now.

My question is - I don't want the Firestone, and that's what GM is using, so I'm going to swap them out as soon as I pick up the truck. What brands of tires do you all recommend. I'm not planning on going off roading - but I want something that will handle well in Wet, Snow, dry conditions. I do some highway/tollway driving (actually - everyday going to work I'm on the tollway) Advise? Recommendations?

Thanks everyone - I only have 3-4 more weeks to wait! I'm really Impatient! I want my truck!

Truckchic

bco

john, truckchic, others -
i too had the firestone p265/75r16's on my '00 silverado z71. for those interested in good tires, but can't afford brand new michelins at $650...here's another option. with bridgestone/firestone offering to pro-rate wilderness tires against a new set of bridgestones, i got four bridgestone dueler at's (LT265/75R16) for 23% of the new cost. by measuring remaining tread depth, they determined that i had used 23% of the original tread on my wilderness at's (about right...i had 12k miles on them). so, for about $220, i got brand new tires. and good ones at that. truckchic, for you, they'd prob'ly be free...make sure you specify that you want the "LT" and not the "P" rated tires though. i couldn't afford the michelins, much as i would like them. the dueler's do not make any more noise or ride any differently than the wilderness tires i had. haven't had a chance to off-road them though. also, it gave me the opportunity to change to the LT rated tire which i feel much more comfortable with than the P it came with. much more aggressive tread also. to see pics of what it looks like, visit my updated pic trail album at:

www.picturetrail.com/kwerking

lots of other good info on there for silverado owners too. questions? sign my picture trail guestbook or post them here, i check back every day or two...

bco

z71bill

Did you also replace your spare tire?

I assume it would be new - and they would give you 100% towards the Bridgestone swap.

Did they charge you for balancing?

ryanbab

I can answer that for BCO. No he didnt get the spare changed.

obyone

me at no charge. Firestone Firehawks 265/70R16 to Michelin LTX M/S 275/70R16. Of cousre I gave them about $600 worth of grief....something about the squeaky wheel getting the grease...

nrd525

I don't think they are a whole lot louder than the Wilderness tires were, but it's a different type noise. The Fstones had a deeper "roar", and the LTX A/T's have more of a "hiss", kind of noise. With the windows closed, I can't hear a lot of anything, except the wind from my back window leaks.(Getting fixed Thursday).
The truck is much more stable over bumpy roads and on the interstate, but doesn't ride quite as soft as it did with the Deathstones, but it's ok to me. I did hear questions from the right seat: Mom:"Is there more air in these tires?" GF:" How come it jerks my head now when we go over big bumps?" (Think Jean Luc Picard from STTNG when the ship is hit, she and mom both let their heads bob around when riding, then cry about their necks!) I tried it, and it hurt like hell the next day.
BTW, checked the air tonight, they put 35 in them,not 40. Either Sam's tire guage is off, or they just ignored me when I told them 40. I'll leave the back at 35, and will try 40 in front to see how it rides. The tread footprint looked pretty close in the back, a little under inflated in front.
I was actualy looking for the LTX M/S tires, but they didn't have four in stock at any one place, and I wasn't sure about the "clone" models/names, so I just got the A/T's. Same price, and they seem to be the same tire except for tread.

bco

no, didn't swap the spare. wasn't a major concern...i think i can trust an unused spare to get me up to 100 miles in a pinch. hopefully! anyways, you bring up a good point, i should only have to pay the difference in tires since it's unused. yes, they did charge me for balancing. and i did purchase lifetime balance/rotation and road hazard so it came out to a total of $290 for me. without the peripheral stuff though, i could have feasibly gotten it done for $220 out the door.

bco

bowhuntwi2

When you need new tires, if you would of switched out the spare, you would be only buying 3 next time around, using your spare as the 4th, and 1 of your old ones for the spare. Without switching the spare, you will have to buy 4.

truckchic

Thanks for the info. I definately will be checking further into that. A friend of mine also recommended the Dueler 's.

Thanks. I'll look at the LT 's too. What's the difference? P - Passenger and LT = Light Truck?

truckchic