By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I think that the jury is still out on how much influence man has on the overall climate, but I tend to believe that it is negligible. While I respect your opinion, I just disagree that anything has yet been proven on the subject.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
"Rare snow blankets South as East braces for storm"
By JAY REEVES, Associated Press Writer
link title
Car Crashes to Please Mother Nature
Lord, what did Al do to get Ruppert to come over to his side, tie him up and beat him with a shoe?
Speaking of Al, I hear that in "An Inconvenient Truth" Al shows a picture of the Aral sea in what used to be the USSR. There is a picture of large fishing boats sitting among sand dunes with the suggestion being that CC has dried up the sea with disastrous results for the fishermen.
Now, as we who attended school beyond the 5th grade all know, the Aral sea has dried up because the Soviets diverted the two main rivers that filled it. No rivers, no sea.
Please tell me that I've got this wrong and Mr. Gore is not the lying sack of...laundry...that he seems to be. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
C'mon Steve, this is pretty egregious! Gravity is a LAW of science, not a theory. See the link for the difference.
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm
Either way, we still can't explain why it happens. Doesn't mean we haven't quit studying it for cause and effect (whatever that defines down to in the granular world :P ).
No, but you can mathematically explain gravity, knowing what the variables and formula is. You can't do the same with GW, as the variables are not completely known, and worse yet the contributing amount of each variable is unknown, and how they interact with each other.
For example water vapor is a prominent GHG in the atmosphere. The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is a function of solar activity - how much is evaporated from the surface of bodies of water. There are changes in solar activity almost continually. Methane is a powerful GHG (30X the effect of CO2). How much methane is released naturally, dissolved in ocean water? ...
That is why man-made GW is an unproven theory requiring much more study, and is not substantiated enough to warrant much serious discussion. GW itself is fairly well proven - but not man-made GW. The sun and our orbit around the sun is a much larger factor than anything mankind can do.
WHOM has done a validated study as to whether or not this OBVIOUS decrease in fuel consumption by way of less miles driven, driven by the global recession/ D word ????? has CLEARED the air? !!!! All they will say is gee... the normal commutes SEEM to be a tad faster.
So if a decrease of 3.6% is absolutely wonderful, why no FEED BACK??? Or is the REEL feed back really happening on the daily news, aka economic downturn bordering on DEPRESSION?
Well gee if a decrease of - 3.6 is a sign post of near depression -7.2% should be even better...? eh???? :lemon:
Some states picking economy over environment regs
By MATT GOURAS, Associated Press Writer – Mon Mar 2,
link title
For those who are interested, there's going to be a new report on BBC America on Friday march 6 and Monday March 9 at 7 PM on the continuing and potentially deadly toxic effects of carbon dioxide on the earth's oceans---ocean acidity--which is also increasing at a rapid rate.
Also, and more on our topic, -- Here's a PRO/CON article on Automaker's Response to GW Issues:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/business/27fuel.html
Seems fairly balanced.
Noticed that global warming alarmist groups rallied/marched in snowstorm in DC yesterday. How fitting.
Ah weather. Did I mention that we set a record high temperature of 68 here in Boise yesterday? In like a lamb. The snow at the hill is going fast, although there's a good chance of snow all next week.
Not too long ago (well actually light years ago) living in the dead of winter in upstate NY, when hitting 32 degrees they were LITERAL shorts and T shirt run about days !!!!
Weather extremes have always been with us, what you are seeing now is more extreme weather. Not just the one-off DC winter storm in March, but more frequent storms than records would indicate are normal.
No one can know for SURE if this is a "normal variance" and thus the issue is "hotly" debated.
If everyone "just by common sense KNEW" that this was normal, then there never would have been a GW discussion at all.
But if you remember my past post/s on GLOBAL ICE AGE, it was literally even more certain!! Now the Global ICE AGE was "preached" a scant 40/45 years ago ! (1960's) So ok, anything can have variance.
BUT.... the mechanism/s for HOW it went from GLOBAL ICE AGE to GLOBAL WARMING was/were NEVER SCIENTIFICALLY explained- much less studied, aka, how THE HELL this we miss this !! ???? !!!
NOW, there are a lot of doctrinal PRESS release type apologetics (religious in nature) statements/arguments saying that the GLOBAL ICE AGE advocates main contribution was the call to attention to the GLOBAL ICE AGE, aka GLOBAL WARMING aka GLOBAL Climate change. (cough cough... now let us move on in your GW/GCC hymnal....)
Sure did take a lot of mistakes just to get the lanuage right. So who cares about the REALITY, scientific and otherwise !!!???? Now if that is not enough, there has been NO scientific lookback studies to further identify the FORWARD looking mechanisms.
I have gone on to say the obvious. There are no serious efforts to R & D C02 (as a fuel source) energy machines given a so called over abundant generation of C02.. The GW cist's don't even act on their own siren calls!!??
No body was in shorts this morning in upstate NY. My area had a wind chill of -16.
I put the long johns back on and ran my school bus a few extra minutes but nothing helped.
Maybe steve will bring his SUV over here and get us up to 68 soon.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well the GW cist's can CERTAINLY take massive pride in cutting off the big fours UAW, GM, Ford, Chysler domestic yearly auto sales ! They have convincingly made the case/s, the product lines the big four oem are inappropriate for any and hosts of reasons.
This is against a US market yearly sales of 16.5M down to (est) 10 M). It is an impressive minus -39.3% DROP !!! I am led to believe or shall I say have read (in multiple places, the domestic oems have 20% of that market's share. Again I have read Ford is doing better (worse) @ minus- 48% link title I would have quoted www.edmunds.com but this goes to the "read in multiple places" claim.
The democrats have also knocked Michigan representation by knocking off Michigan's Senator and Unionist Representative, John Dingell from his long time (auto czar) perch.
Of course, Prius sales are in the dumper too, in case you haven't noticed.
Toyota Halts All Japanese Production, Prius Included, for 11 Days Due to Poor Sales
..."Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. sales plunged 40 percent, while Honda Motor Co.'s sales dropped 38 percent and Nissan Motor Co.'s fell 37 percent.
Sales of the Toyota Camry, the best selling car in the U.S., sank by 41 percent. Demand remained strong for Honda's Fit subcompact, whose sales dropped 2 percent, but sales of its top-selling Accord sedan fell 42 percent. "...
So I am sure if US sales of Prius' showed an upward trend, that would have been "news worthy"
"According to Toyota sales reports, the automaker sold about 20,000 fewer Priuses in 2008 than in 2007."...
However it would be difficult, given your cited article to swag what percentage of the drop of -20,000 Prius sales, was the drop in USA market Prius product sales.
While I would be the first to say this is false, even as I do it right in front of you - if you take the total ww loss of -20,000/-6,5000,000 (usa market loss) = >.003 %
I will let you put words to this false %.
"How bad are sales right now? "December's Prius sales were down almost 50% from July, when both gas prices and demand for hybrids were soaring," according to Edmunds.com. Toyota car sales in general were down 29% from January 2008 to January 2009, according to Motor Intelligence. And the automaker has told suppliers it will trim overall production in 2009 by 12% to address flagging demand."
Information Week
Car sales are down but I don't think it's because of global warming concerns. Greens aren't buying cars right now, hybrids or otherwise.
That's just shooting the messenger.
The auto industry reminds me of the kid who shoots his parents and then asks the court for clemency because he's an orphan.
You have to remember we are talking about GLOBAL warming, not local weather, not European Ice Ages, not Polynesian warm spells. We are talking about world-wide effects, all happening at a very fast clip. This has no historical precedent that we are aware of, so naturally that makes science lift its eyebrows.
I do really regret that this bad news comes at a time when the auto industry cannot afford it, but they've seen this before, such as the 1973 oil embargo. Nobody, and I mean nobody, predicted that one either and when it came the auto industry was not prepared.
But they did an admirable job of adjusting to it once they were dragged kicking and screaming into the reality of oil as a limited and expensive resource.
Ditto with the SMOG problem. Automakers fought tooth and nail in the 60s but now cars are infinitely cleaner than 40 years ago.
Human progress is BASED on challenge, not on the status quo.
That might be what you say and your take, but is is certainly not mine nor what I have said.
..."The auto industry reminds me of the kid who shoots his parents and then asks the court for clemency because he's an orphan. "...
Now GW cists have been aiming hard to accomplished what is happening, yet party members are now bailing out the kids!!!
..."But they did an admirable job of adjusting to it once they were dragged kicking and screaming into the reality of oil as a limited and expensive resource. "...
If you call importing even more foreign oil admirable... and raising the prices ever higher, well I don't know what to say.
..."I do really regret that this bad news comes at a time when the auto industry cannot afford it, but they've seen this before, such as the 1973 oil embargo. Nobody, and I mean nobody, predicted that one either and when it came the auto industry was not prepared. "... The information on the oil embargo was indeed minimized. But the signs were really there, if one was paying attention. It was a slam dunk (reaction) for our policy of supporting Israel. link title While history will debate this for probably generations, it was the real reason for "Tricky's"(Richard M. Nixon's) demise. If he had just said no, there would probably have been no watergate discovery, ergo no impeachment and probably no State of Israel, as we know it today.
.."Ditto with the SMOG problem. Automakers fought tooth and nail in the 60s but now cars are infinitely cleaner than 40 years ago. "...
GEEZ the whole thing here was to get em to not ADD lead additives aka UNLEADED RUG to PUG !!! 30 years or so later (2006) they finally are bringing to the fore D2 aka ULSD.
Republicans said the president's plan to charge fees to industries that spew greenhouse gases amounts to a stealthy tax increase for all Americans that will far exceed the new $400 annual tax cut for workers that he wants to extend beyond 2010.
"The president's budget increases taxes on every American, and does so during a recession," said Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the Ways and Means Committee.
Estimates are 30% rise in electric bills. That will raise water and sewer rates. For me it would be about $450 per year on electricity. It would be dribble down taxation. Raising the price of everything we buy. For the sole purpose of growing government. The crazy part is his cap and trade tax on the power generation companies is earmarked to pay for the tax cuts he has promised 95% of the people. So we take it out of one pocket and put less back in the other. With an Obama handling charge in the middle.
All as a result of failed scientific analysis. Of course it is an easy sell to a politician when they see tax dollars generated.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I guess I find it interesting in all this multi BILLION dollar big four auto bail outs, not word one as to which segment/s will replace the PU/SUV section as cash cows. The reasoning is two fold:
1. the GW cists have done a convincing job crashing the PU/SUV markets (as reflected in the CRASHED markets overall also.
2. at some future date, Congress will be asking the Big Four about....PROFITS (or most likely, lack there of)
That is the issue. It really does not relate to cars. It is a political tool. Now Tim (tax evader) Geithner is pushing his version of Global Warming taxes.
WASHINGTON, March 4 (Reuters) - U.S. oil and natural gas producing companies should not receive federal subsidies in the form of tax breaks because their businesses contribute to global warming, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told Congress on Wednesday.
It was one of the sharpest attacks yet on the oil and gas industry by a top Obama administration official, reinforcing the White House stance that new U.S. energy policy will focus on promoting renewable energy sources like wind and solar power and rely less on traditional fossil fuels like oil as America tackles climate change.
Add another NON Scientific voice to the fray. How stupid does he think the US citizen IS? We know any kind of roadblock he puts up on oil production costs US the US tax payer. It won't affect his corrupt butt. We pay for all his limo gas.
My 3 NASA scientists trump your one wayward NASA scientist. When you waste $100B on Global Warming it will buy a lot of scientists and wannabe scientists. What was your count, 30,000 scientists. That is a cool $3 million each. For that kind of money you can buy any scientist on the planet in a heart beat.
"Communications bill taxation" and "sending him back to Chicago" doesn't relate to global warming and cars though.
And it's not like we haven't harped on this before, even though "science is politics."
steve_, "Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?" #280, 10 May 2007 6:32 am
Is it just a coincidence that government has a hand in seeing that a problem is created or found, and then assumes and asserts more controls to fix the problem. I'm sure it won't be long before the government gets around to charging a CO2 tax on non-recycled toilet-paper, as a tree died for it.
I heard today that some of the top global warming advocates have now admitted that the earth has been cooling since 2001. They can't understand it or explain it because they still say it should have been warming based on their studies.
They also said that the earth could possibly continue to cool for the next 30 years...but that is not important because they have already proved global warming ! Unbelievable !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Isn't that the guy who just made Ted Kennedy a knight? :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible