Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

avalon02wh

"The amount of useless and stupifying codified regulations as a result is simply mind boggling. "

Nope, those supposedly stupid regs have saved thousands of lives.

http://www.iihs.org/research/fatality_facts_2007/general.html

ruking1

Me? NO !

But why buy new or used when you can keep from getting 2-10 new/used cars built? I hope you are not being scornful of the very results/ actions you pontificate? On the other hand....

Don't forget 2012 is 3 years away ! This MY is the GW cists' (and others, notably end of times for the Mayan civilization) end of the world. I am not likely to hit 200 k by then. But I will get my TB/WP kit just before 200k.

avalon02wh

'VIENNA (Dow Jones)--Saudi Arabia, which has many decades worth of oil to pump out of the ground, on Thursday urged developed nations like the United States not to pursue overly aggressive measures to cut carbon emissions because of the potential financial impact on oil states."
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090319-706452.html

Sounds like a good reason to me, right? Heck, we wouldn't want them to drive regular cars or live in regular sized homes.

The real irony of all this is that a rise in sea level of just a few feet will put all the coastal areas of the gulf in harms way.
http://www.panoramio.com//photo/8275305
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4355809

The first good storm and they will be in their oil.

houdini1

The real irony of all this is that a rise in sea level of just a few feet will put all the coastal areas of the gulf in harms way.

Sure, this happens every time there is a hurricane, but I don't ever remember it happening because of people driving cars.

ruking1

.."Sure, this happens every time there is a hurricane, but I don't ever remember it happening because of people driving cars. "...

Proof positive. New Orleans was founded in 1718. 291 years ago. It flooded then... and Hurricane Katrina (2005) shows 287 years later (to state the extreme obvious) it floods now.

link title

Flooding in 1700's... must have been due to GM SUV's :surprise:

oldfarmer50

The Interior Department recently reported that wind turbines off our coasts could potentially meet all our energy needs. According to the study the biggest potential is off the Atlantic coast.

Such a shame that some body who's name rhymes with Freddy Pennedy doesn't want them to spoil his view.

stever

With our luck, they'll get built just in time to get flooded by an event like this. (CNN) :P

(Yeah, I read the next to last sentence - so think Greenland. )

euphonium

According to the study the biggest potential is off the Atlantic coast.

Remember the Left Coast has a lot of wind produced by CA politicos, Arhnold & Pullosey to name a couple and there are others.

ruking1

Just wait till he goes to Wash DC.

houdini1

Can't put them there. They would blow out every circuit in the country !!

gagrice

Considering we paved paradise and put in a Parking lot. It will be good to find new crop land on either end of the globe.

The real bottom line is people are going to increasingly use energy, raise cattle and want the niceties of life. I don't see US killing half the people to fulfill the wishes of that wacko in Great Britain. And as long as the elite are tying up their ocean views and desert oasis from any alternatives, we are stuck with what we have.

What did I just read about proposals to force all organic farming? How much pig, cow and chicken manure will that take?

houdini1

Yes, we will have to use all that natural gas, oil, and coal or go the Solyent Green route.

avalon02wh

"Akbari, along with Surabi Menon, another LBNL scientist, and Arthur Rosenfeld, a former LBNL scientist and now a California Energy Commission board member, claim that painting urban surfaces in warm parts of the world white or a light color could offset the carbon emissions of all 600 million of the world's cars for 18 to 20 years — at a savings equivalent to at least $1 trillion worth of CO2 reductions."
http://www.miller-mccune.com/science_environment/is-white-the-new-green-1117

I wonder, does it count if your car is white? Works for me. Actually everything (roof, car and yard) was covered in white snow for months. That has got to count for something. Maybe I should sell the carbon credits. :shades:

avalon02wh

"Sure, this happens every time there is a hurricane, but I don't ever remember it happening because of people driving cars. "

KSA is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The gulf refers to their Persian Gulf. The Persian Gulf normally does not get hurricanes just storms.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Tropical_cyclones_1945_2006.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_cyclone

Cars -> CO2 increase -> temperature increase -> ice melts -> sea level rises -> storm surge impacts increase for coastal areas

gagrice

I prefer white or silver cars. Hate black and red. Had a dark blue Suburban that took a while to cool down in the summer. Though I would not want to force it on people. Also light colored seats in the car are cooler in the summer. I think this house is pretty well insulated. We did not have any big electric bills last summer. And we have two big AC units outside that cover two zones in the house. No snow for us this year. It has snowed at our level. Not often though.

avalon02wh

"Flooding in 1700's... must have been due to GM SUV's"

No, however, more warming will increase the possibility of flooding as ice melts around the globe and we see increasing sea levels.

oldfarmer50

"...an event like this..."

The article says at the beginning that they "are investigating" if this is the result of climate change, giving the impression that it is. It is only at the end that they admit that there will be no sea level rise because the ice was already floating. I love agenda driven reporting, put the misleading stuff up front and the accurate stuff at the end so the easily bored American public will never read it.

Way to go CNN.

stever

But there are other consequences, and if the ice is melting at one pole, you have to wonder if it's not melting at the other.

oldfarmer50

"...How much pig, cow and chicken manure will that take?..."

All of it and then some. We'll probably have to tap the largest source of manure...humans. Yummmm. Just think about that next time you eat a salad. :sick:

oldfarmer50

"...if the ice is melting at one pole, you have to wonder if it's not melting at the other..."

But is that happening? Didn't the north ice cap expand back to the levels of the 70's this year? I seem to remember reading that a few years ago when the alarm was about the north pole melting, the media ignored that the south pole ice cap was increasing. Perhaps we are just looking at the normal ebb and flow of a complex system which some people are misrepresenting for their own purposes.

houdini1

I would think just the opposite. When it is summer at one pole it is winter at the other one. I also read where the north pole has recovered its ice. Winter now coming in the south so let's see if anyone reports the ice is expanding there. Probably not...until it reaches Panama.

ruking1

..." Perhaps we are just looking at the normal ebb and flow of a complex system which some people are misrepresenting for their own purposes. "...

Indeed ! That is why they ignored the statement about flooding in New Orleans in the 17th century due to GM SUV's.

It is like the old WC Fields line in a movie where he says to some kid that is onto his schtick as he is trying to work his scam. Go away kid,.... you're bothering me.

stever

I think it was the arctic ice that was increasing in size recently. But the detractors said it was thin ice (i.e., not permanent).

I think it's always winter at the poles, lol.

New Orleans was originally built on high ground formed by natural levees and that's where the hurricane victims went when the infill stuff flooded after Katrina, almost 300 years later. The entire city wasn't under water, just the low sections. Of course, the low sections make up 80% of the city.

Wiki says the first major flood was in 1849 when a man-made levee failed.

In the 1900's, they started a drain and pump system and the place really spread out, making it more susceptible to flooding, whether from weather, climate or rising sea levels (copying Venice perhaps?). Not to mention all the "good works" of the Corps of Engineers from the mid-60s onward to increase the "protected" size of the city.

Cue Johnny Cash.

ruking1

..."Of course, the low sections make up 80% of the city. "...

Some New Orleans folks to 80% might think you have a cruel sense of humor.

Ah no real disaster then eh?

houdini1

I think it's always winter at the poles, lol.

Nope, each pole has two seasons, winter and summer. When it is winter the sun never rises and when it is summer the sun never sets. Much colder in the winter.

stever

The 80% number came from Wiki. And why did the city expand from the high ground? Man-made levees gave them "protection." Levees fail. And if global warming is man-made, and the water rises, the high ground may go under.

You can't fool with Mother Nature and get away with it forever eh?

Oh, the average summer temp at the North Pole is 32 °F. That sounds wintry to me. :shades:

iluvmysephia1

but even though the temp.average is 32 deg.F in the summer, the sun never sets, that being the difference. Eh?

Talk about messin' with my circadian rhythms!

stever

The summer light was the wonderful part about my 20 years in Anchorage. And occasionally it got over 60 in the summer and once in a blue moon, 70. :shades:

We're about 11 weeks to summer solstice and the light is already pushing 9 pm here on the western edge of the mountain time zone. It's pretty nice - thank you DST. 32 for the daily high wouldn't be as nice.

ruking1

President Hugo Chavez has got it TOUGH !! :shades:

Prices for world's cheapest gas may be going up...

link title

houdini1

Still pretty cool, but that is when we have the much ballyhooed ice melt that has taken place for, well forever. Ice can come and go pretty fast.

euphonium

"the light is already pushing 9 pm here on the western edge of the mountain time zone. It's pretty nice - thank you DST."

Old American Indian said:"Only White man cuts off one end of blanket and sews it on the other end thinking he has a longer blanket."

stever

"Being beyond the western edge of the time zone means the sun rises later and sets later on the clock, giving residents of these areas darker mornings and longer evenings than they would otherwise have."

link

and

"The eastern edge of a time zone experiences sunrise, local noon, and sunset an hour earlier than the western edge of that time zone"

Sun Dial Activity

I'm not a morning person so I like the longer evenings.

gagrice

While high temps are rare in the Arctic, I was there when it was very warm.

stever

That's not the Pole, although maybe it can be as warm. I could easily find record lows for that area, but not a record high.

I know there's no one there, but they keep good sat coverage of the ice thickness - why is it so hard to find a surface temp?

Meanwhile the record high at the South Pole was 7.5°F (icecube.wisc.edu).

gagrice

The temperature sits at the other side of the gauge a lot more than that side. It also got that warm in the mid 1980s. Usually it is drizzly and cold most of the summer. 50s most of the time. This was a real cold winter according to those still up there. I am very happy to be where I am. This pic taken sitting at this chair yesterday. My little oasis out my office picture window. Also the first time I have ever seen robins in San Diego. Is that because it is cooler here now? There is a large group hanging out in our fruit orchard.



Same position from my plush office chair. The water is about 10 ft from my desk. Life is rough...

stever

That first robin sure looks like a California Quail to me. :P We get flocks commuting through the yard here twice a day. The robins stayed all winter.

gagrice

I think the South Pole is much colder than the North. If memory serves me, we were about 1200 miles from the actual North Pole. I believe it is always frozen ice there.

gagrice

The quail are a treat for us. They don't usually get this close. I toss feed up on the bank and the doves get most of it. They are thick around here. Quail are more illusive. We had pretty good rain this year, so maybe the robins are finding enough worms to hang around.

stever

They don't usually get this close.

They hang out in our neighborhood making the rounds - a lone female walked across our front porch just this morning. Usually they flock up from 10 to 40 birds. The hatchlings are tiny and would about fit in a tablespoon.

Here's another link that says the mercury rises to a balmy high of 32 degrees above zero (zero C) in July at the North Pole, the warmest month.

How North Pole Expeditions Work

gagrice

I am surprised the Arctic is that deep there. 13,000 feet is serious depth. The Arctic coast is very shallow along Alaska. Most places are not over 40 feet deep. Makes drilling easier. They can build gravel islands. If the water rises just add more gravel :shades:

avalon02wh

"EEA Report: Trends in European Transport Are Heading in the Wrong Direction"
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/eea-report-trends-in-european-transport-- are-heading-in-the-wrong-direction.html#more

Sounds like the Europeans will need to give up cars altogether or at least stop transporting freight.

Study: Cool Spells Normal in Warming World
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/cool-spells-in-a-warming-world/?em

Ice bridge ruptures in Antarctic
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7984054.stm

The news keeps coming.

houdini1

Study: Cool Spells Normal in Warming World

Hmmm...then I guess warm spells are normal in a cooling world, eh?

oldfarmer50

"...Study: Cool Spells Normal in Warming World..."

How's that for having your cake and eating it too? Next we'll be seeing Study: Freezing To Death In July Sign of Global Warming.

Do people really fall for this stuff? :confuse:

stever

More Arctic news:

Arctic Ice Got Smaller, Thinner, Younger This Winter (National Geographic)

houdini1

Wow, did Slick Willy write that article?

There was nothing in the article to back up the headline. It is crap articles like this that make me a non believer. They compare single years to 5 year averages, thin ice to thick ice, and new ice to old ice, mix it all up in a bag and then cherry pick just the stuff they want. Unbelievable.

Someone else could have taken these same "facts" and written just as convincing an article in support of global cooling.

stever

Someone else could have taken these same "facts" and written just as convincing an article in support of global cooling.

Got a link?

houdini1

I always thought it was kind of silly to post links on a forum like this. Just google "Arctic Ice" and you can find all the "Arctic Ice Is Growing" articles you want.

stever

You make it sound like the National Geographic Society is just interested in headline mongering. Maybe you prefer the Wall St. Journal version? (Ice, Ice Maybe: NASA Reports Greater Arctic Ice Melt)

gagrice

I canceled my subscription to National Geographic when I found out they are Male Chauvinst Pigs. Would not do a story on a woman the trekked across the Arctic with her dog team. It is a closed society with a bunch of 90 year old wannabe explorers. I did not know they were still around.

Aside from that the warmer it gets in the Arctic the easier to get the resources locked in that frozen hell hole. :P We will fiddle fart around debating and the Russians will lock up all the resources. We are a pathetic Nation of mamby pamby dorks. From the President on down. Makes me sick to my stomach. :sick:

avalon02wh

"McKinsey Report Finds 47% Reduction in Global Automotive Emissions Feasible by 2030; Timely Action By All Stakeholders Required"
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/mckinsey-report-finds-47-reduction-in-gl- obal-automotive-emissions-feasible-by-2030-timely-action-by-.html#more

Timely action by all stakeholders, not going to happen. Everyone will act in their own self interest. The only thing that will slow down the CO2 train is $200 a barrel oil. Even so, CO2 is not the only contributer to climate change. It is unlikely land use issues like deforestation will go away.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-climate-change-australia9-20- 09apr09,0,65585.story

The latimes article points to why we won't see a very big change in emissions. Many (coal industry) do not want to deal with the issue. Not even Crocodile Dundee will be able to save Australia.