With all the real pollution that we have, and should be cleaning up, why the big push and attempted money grab, to "clean up" a naturally occurring atmospheric gas that is essential to life on earth?
True. I can think of nothing easier than to glibly make stuff up. Con men have made that a science for centuries, and there has never been a shortage of suckers who believe them.
Many of us only get like ~70 or 80~ years on this 4 billion year old planet. The planet shall survive long after we are dead.
I think the Kyoto folks, even though they've personally capitalized in $$ over environment issues, are beginning to loose interest - about like the rest of us have. There are too many other things to be concerned with...like increased prices of food and energy.
We have two hybrids and a cordless lawnmower in the garage...so, there ain't no :shades: guilt at our house.
"We can now have confidence in making statements about how carbon dioxide has varied throughout history," Tripati said.
In the last 20 million years, key features of the climate record include the sudden appearance of ice on Antarctica about 14 million years ago and a rise in sea level of approximately 75 to 120 feet.
"We have shown that this dramatic rise in sea level is associated with an increase in carbon dioxide levels of about 100 parts per million, a huge change," Tripati said. "This record is the first evidence that carbon dioxide may be linked with environmental changes, such as changes in the terrestrial ecosystem, distribution of ice, sea level and monsoon intensity."
Indeed there is a lot of truth to the consequences of your first sentence. Another is we are figuratively and more importantly literally constantly in some sort of crisis and or (I hesitate to use the word/concept) ARMAGEDDON.
Indeed SCIENTISTS will tell you that 97% of species that EVER LIVED are extinct !!!????
There are too many other things to be concerned with...like increased prices of food and energy.
Very good point. Instead of using food stock for fuel, we should be looking at ways to burn our ABUNDANT fossil fuel coal in a more environmental way. Corn, palm and sugar food products are as much as double since we started using them for fuel. Other than sugar for ethanol, the rest are not even carbon neutral.
By the way my son in law in Indiana bought a top of the line electric mower and it would not cut his grass without a lot of effort. He took it back and got a gas mower that works great. I bought a great Poulan electric chainsaw and like it better than my old gas saw. Only problem is the long cord stretched around the property. Mostly I use it to cut firewood into smaller pieces. Which in this very cold winter we use a lot of it.
Indeed. "WE" have been, are and probably will remain for generations to come, busy shipping parts to the majority of our abundant coal resources to China (probably among others) for their "coal fired" environmentally correct electrical plants. :confuse: We of course almost literally "BAN" its use here.
Grow it, cut it, water it, grow it back, cut it again, water it again, repeat, ad inifinitum. So Silly. I spent $3600 on fake grass for my backyard and have loved it. Had it almost 7 years now, and it's still in great shape. ZERO maintenance. Schweet.
Anyway - your complaint is what? That they cannot make a suitable electric mower? That's wrong. There are tons of them available now, and many of them on Amazon and other sites have top-notch reviews. Hundreds of thousands of them are in use worldwide.
If he bought one, and it did not do the job, he just didn't do his research well enough.
My sister has an electric push mower and she hasn't killed it yet. She mows about a half acre - hard to say since she has so many plants. I was sold on electric chain saws when I used hers a few years back. A gas one came with my house, but I'm going to sell it. Not even going to crank it. Couldn't get the snowblower started that they left behind. I really dislike gas engines, at least on yard tools. Way too much maintenance and hassle.
If he bought one, and it did not do the job, he just didn't do his research well enough.
And how would you know with fake grass that does not require mowing? I speak from experience as one that has probably cut more grass than anyone here. All grass is not created equal. Heavy grasses can be difficult to cut. Electric mowers may be fine for light grass. I would have to try one myself to make any other judgment. here from the top rated electric mower on Amazon.
Do not buy if you have St. Augustine grass !!
I picked this mower up for $160 when the State of CA had a trade-in special to rid the world of gas mowers; a noble cause. Since that's a steal, I decided to trade in my old self-propelled, gas-powered Craftsman. On my first use, everything was fine until I got to the backyard where I have the thick, St. Augustine grass. That's when the nightmare began. This engine simply lacked the power to cut through it as it kept locking up on me, and that was on the highest setting. I was excited about a "green" mower, but if it won't cut through the grass, "green" will simply be a concept for me. It was a disaster.
If you have thin grass that cut's easy, you're good. If not, beware! After I get done with this review, I will be putting it up for sale on Craig's List and will be looking to purchase another gas mower.
Like pushing an elephant!,
Looks good, starts up like a dream but it extremely heavy to push! AND Amazon will not take returns on this one so I'm out $400.
All I know is he went to Home Depot and bought their best electric. The salesman said if it did not do a good job bring it back. It did not and he took it back. He is much happier with the gas mower.
As a side note. When I first decided to change from a gas chainsaw I bought an electric one from Home Depot. It is ok. Then I thought I needed a battery powered chainsaw. That is a worthless POC. I gave plug-in electric one more shot and bought the Poulan 400e from Amazon. That saw I love and it was cheaper than the previous chainsaws. For those without a big budget, trying lots of different products to find a great one can be expensive and really not that environmentally sound.
Yes I can concur. And from 2 years of experience. Among other things I had the "low" priority responsibility of "St Augustine" grass care for 110 acres in southern florida no less !!!!!
Maybe he should check out a dwarf fescue grass or similar.
My wife already has her plant list started (including an order back to the Idaho extension folks), so I have a feeling that my yard mowing may be able to be handled ok by the manual push mower that was also left behind here. She's planning 120 sq. ft. of raised beds too. If not, this would be an easy yard for an electric (although - yeah, you guessed it - there's a gas 18" mower left behind too).
Moving the greenhouse gases back to a central location has its own issues, but at least you can attack a lot of the carbon issues in one spot. Getting the juice to the house brings its own set of issues though.
Gary says, "And how would you know with fake grass that does not require mowing?"
Um, because I'm 47 and mowed yards for myself and other family members for about 20 of those years.
Well, like anything else, when gas mowers go the way of the rotary phone (as they will) the electric replacements will HAVE to be good enough. Push that elephant.
On manly jobs, chain saw stuff, like sawing larger limbs and trees I trust gasoline. It may be a bugger to: a. keep 2 cycle fuel for. b. a pain to service -i.e. air filter, cleaning, plugs, etc. c. loud - must use hearing protection d. exhaust fumes e. hard to start
- but they get the job done better than alternatives provided they are well cared for.
FWIW - Cordless lawn mowers. Have had them for well over a decade. You can make them last 7-8 years with proper care. They work well for us and our small bermuda front and centipede back yards. Quiet, no gas, no oil, no air filter, no cotton picking cords, and can turn em upside down to remove blade and sharpen or clean.
Fairly expensive to purchase(like most things these days). Ours is a Black Decker 'CMM' type model. We just have to mow on a ~regular basis~ and not let the grass grow 'out of hand'.
Hope we live to one day have a cordless automobile that will serve as well...
The argument that "there were previous times in history when CO2 levels were MUCH higher than today" really proves nothing, and has a very minimal impact on the discussion of what's going on TODAY.
Huh? I see you didn't read the link, or understand it. The link was an article concerning a study on how large ice sheets have melted quickly. Try rereading it again, and see if it doesn't offer an explanation of how the Arctic ice can be melting naturally.
I've got a mix of gas and electric tools. For example I use an electric chainsaw when I get the wood close enough to my house to cut into firewood. It's great to be able to start and stop so frequentl with no effort.
However an electric chainsaw is of little use 100'+ from an outlet. My driveway runs about 600' from my house and if a tree comes down across it, or anything on my 13 acres needs trimming, an electric chainsaw just isn't feasible. Same with grass cutting, though I use an electric trimmer around the house.
The lack of GW had about 15" of snow come down yesterday. I spent about 2 hours on my Craftsman tractor with snowblower attachment clearing my driveway. I had to, as I'm having heating oil delivered tomorrow. This cold weather does nothing except cause me to burn more fossil fuels. The sooner it gets above 60F year round the happier I'll be. But that sure doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. I guess I'll move South like everyone else does, when they retire. Maybe I'll brush up on my Spanish, and move to Costa Rica or such where it's warm enough to live year-round.
I keep waiting for the electric power block that you can drag out in the yard, or out camping to run a lamp or electric heat. Or plug your frig into if the power goes out for a day.
Not a gas generator, but something quiet that doesn't require refueling. Maybe not even have a switch on it, just some outlets.
I think fuel cells require a lot of natural gas. They were going to install some in one of the Arctic villages with some of that Ted Stevens Pork. Then the project was dropped. Not sure why. All their electric is from diesel gen sets.
I would imagine I will be long time in the grave before the average Joe is driving a Hydrogen car. If memory serves Honda was going to build and lease 100 of the FCX Civics. They leased about 3 to high profile Californians about 3 years ago, and that is the last we heard. What happened to the other 97 FCX'? GM has all but scrapped their program because of inherent cost of fuel cells. The idea is not going ahead very fast. It was a big rage when Ahnold had one of his famous Hummers converted. Bet he ain't driving it much. Have they gotten the cost down to anywhere close to gasoline. And they don't work well below freezing. That leaves out about 90% of the USA.
As of July 2007 California had 179 fuel cell vehicles and twenty five stations in operation, and ten more stations have been planned for assembly in California. However, there have already been three hydrogen fueling stations decommissioned.
It doesn't appear that much progress has been made in the 7 years since that article was first published.
Back when I was growing up in Arkansas in the late 50's and early 60's, about a third of the local farmers ran their pick ups on CNG. Seemed to work just fine. Very little pollution and a great alternative to foreign oil. If we were serious.
CNG was real big around here in the 1990s. The Navy converted hundreds of PU trucks. Lots of stations sold CNG. I think the downfall was the enormous cost of maintenance. Those tanks have to be certified every few years and replaced frequently. Not sure who still uses them. Some buses still have the stickers. I don't think there are any commercial CNG fueling stations left.
You should have looked at your site. There is NOT a single commercial CNG fueling station left in CA. At least according to that list. Only two private stations. I am not sure where you would fill your Civic GX if you did not have a home until. LPG is NOT CNG or the less popular LNG. LPG is propane which a few people converted to.
198. Madera - Tesei Petroleum Get Map Get Directions Fuel Type: Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG), 1300 S. Gateway Drive Madera, CA 93637 Madera County Operational?: Currently Operational
338. Riverside - City of Riverside Get Map Get Directions Fuel Type: Electric Inductive Small, Electric Conductive, Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG), Hydrogen 8095 Lincoln Avenue Riverside, CA 92504 Riverside County Operational?: Currently Operational
So, your point made. Not a lot of them. But my guess is that most GX owners have a home station.
I was just reading this article, when I thought the people in the forum might like to read the last section - where the author rides the bus for a year to save some $.
The last bus-ride I was on someone decided to smoke, and the bus driver nearly pulled the bus over and called the cops. I'd probably get arrested in a confrontation with a lot of these people, if I rode the bus more than a few times/year.
That is a good article. If I had to ride the bus it would be incentive enough to stay out of debt. My most enlightening bus ride was around the island of Oahu. That was about 20+ years ago. I would imagine the low life element riding the bus has increased dramatically since then.
Looks like NJ will be collecting revenue from bike riders soon. They are proposing a license fee every two years. Makes sense, as the cost of creating bike lanes is expensive.
Yes the bike riders advocates might indeed get their wishes. In CA it costs (BARE minimum indeed you can not register your car for the BARE minimium) $57 in this county to register one's car. Let the revenue begin using bike drivers. Increased enforcement of the common laws bike riders BREAK might be in order. So for example bike riders ROUTINELY disregard red lights. Stop signs are normally regarded as "even less than advisory". So if they can give a $500+ ticket to cars on a photo @ an intersection (CA stop), let the (revenue) games begin for bike riders.
So if they can give a $500+ ticket to cars on a photo an intersection (CA stop), let the (revenue) games begin for bike riders.
Some of the most discourteous people on the road are bike riders. With a license mandatory front and back it would be very easy to photo cite the lawbreakers.
I recently moved from Idaho, where it was legal for a bicyclist to stop at a red light and then proceed if traffic was clear. And you didn't have to stop at a stop sign at all unless there was traffic. Made a lot of sense.
Would make a lot of sense to swap out many of the stop signs for yields for cars (or just take them down entirely). Why idle at an empty intersection?
I have a metal bike license on my frig. It's stamped 1958.
I recently moved from Idaho, where it was legal for a bicyclist to stop at a red light and then proceed if traffic was clear. And you didn't have to stop at a stop sign at all unless there was traffic. Made a lot of sense.
Who would be at fault if the bicyclist made a mistake and got flattened ? (mistakes do happen)
I'd have to go dig up the ordinance but it says something like the biker isn't supposed to proceed if traffic conditions aren't safe. So it'd be the biker's fault.
"The risk is gathering momentum now, scientists say, due to rising temperatures in the atmosphere, which has generally made weather patterns more volatile."
MMGW is just like any other scam and scandal. Just follow the money. The whole MMGW lie is a political movement designed to stop development, drain resources, and is motivated by greed and politics.
In light of all the evidence that refutes MMGW, anyone who defends the concept is obviously trying to further the goals of the scam or they are just not very well informed.
When the liars are backed into a corner and faced with the fact that they have no proof, they just start screaming for us to "prove MMGW is not happening". A favorite trick of all con men.
I was thinking of having a GW-debate this weekend and inviting you over. It'll be no trouble keeping a supply of tall cold-ones around. Our high temperature on Sun. is going to be 10F. Oh the low without wind-chill added in is going to be about -10F.
The debate will be outside in the evening. I suggest layers topped with a puffy down-coat. You can tell us how the current climate is warming so much, and that we should want to keep it the same. After about 20 min of you freezing, I'll let you into my oil-heated house, which is about the only way, the northern areas keep a modern lifestyle and can still be inhabited.
Some people CANNOT admit being wrong about anything. larsb would argue with you until he froze to death, saying that the cold was caused by global warming !!
And at this point, neither of us can prove man's influence IS or ISN'T impacting global climate. Thus the debate continues.
We do have these facts:
1. Data was compromised to try and prove AGW. 2. Those involved in the AGW movement are cashing in on a theory. 3. While the ice in the Arctic may be melting, it is building up in the Antarctic. 4. Many, Many scientists were added to the consensus without their permission. 5. Many, many scientists will agree it could be warming, there is NO evidence that CO2 has anything to do with the warming.
Did you watch the 12 minute video I posted? That has a lot of scientists that are not buying the UN, East Anglia & UK Guardian lies.
Comments
With all the real pollution that we have, and should be cleaning up, why the big push and attempted money grab, to "clean up" a naturally occurring atmospheric gas that is essential to life on earth?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Next question? :shades:
True. I can think of nothing easier than to glibly make stuff up. Con men have made that a science for centuries, and there has never been a shortage of suckers who believe them.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Many of us only get like ~70 or 80~ years on this 4 billion year old planet. The planet shall survive long after we are dead.
I think the Kyoto folks, even though they've personally capitalized in $$ over environment issues, are beginning to loose interest - about like the rest of us have. There are too many other things to be concerned with...like increased prices of food and energy.
We have two hybrids and a cordless lawnmower in the garage...so, there ain't no :shades: guilt at our house.
Last Time Carbon Dioxide Levels Were This High: 15 Million Years Ago, Scientists Report
"We can now have confidence in making statements about how carbon dioxide has varied throughout history," Tripati said.
In the last 20 million years, key features of the climate record include the sudden appearance of ice on Antarctica about 14 million years ago and a rise in sea level of approximately 75 to 120 feet.
"We have shown that this dramatic rise in sea level is associated with an increase in carbon dioxide levels of about 100 parts per million, a huge change," Tripati said. "This record is the first evidence that carbon dioxide may be linked with environmental changes, such as changes in the terrestrial ecosystem, distribution of ice, sea level and monsoon intensity."
Indeed SCIENTISTS will tell you that 97% of species that EVER LIVED are extinct !!!????
It's time to throw some more salt on this ice down here in Georgia...
Brrr, :surprise: it's colder than G-ho around here.
Very good point. Instead of using food stock for fuel, we should be looking at ways to burn our ABUNDANT fossil fuel coal in a more environmental way. Corn, palm and sugar food products are as much as double since we started using them for fuel. Other than sugar for ethanol, the rest are not even carbon neutral.
By the way my son in law in Indiana bought a top of the line electric mower and it would not cut his grass without a lot of effort. He took it back and got a gas mower that works great. I bought a great Poulan electric chainsaw and like it better than my old gas saw. Only problem is the long cord stretched around the property. Mostly I use it to cut firewood into smaller pieces. Which in this very cold winter we use a lot of it.
Anyway - your complaint is what? That they cannot make a suitable electric mower? That's wrong. There are tons of them available now, and many of them on Amazon and other sites have top-notch reviews. Hundreds of thousands of them are in use worldwide.
If he bought one, and it did not do the job, he just didn't do his research well enough.
My sister has an electric push mower and she hasn't killed it yet. She mows about a half acre - hard to say since she has so many plants. I was sold on electric chain saws when I used hers a few years back. A gas one came with my house, but I'm going to sell it. Not even going to crank it. Couldn't get the snowblower started that they left behind. I really dislike gas engines, at least on yard tools. Way too much maintenance and hassle.
And how would you know with fake grass that does not require mowing? I speak from experience as one that has probably cut more grass than anyone here. All grass is not created equal. Heavy grasses can be difficult to cut. Electric mowers may be fine for light grass. I would have to try one myself to make any other judgment. here from the top rated electric mower on Amazon.
Do not buy if you have St. Augustine grass !!
I picked this mower up for $160 when the State of CA had a trade-in special to rid the world of gas mowers; a noble cause. Since that's a steal, I decided to trade in my old self-propelled, gas-powered Craftsman. On my first use, everything was fine until I got to the backyard where I have the thick, St. Augustine grass. That's when the nightmare began. This engine simply lacked the power to cut through it as it kept locking up on me, and that was on the highest setting. I was excited about a "green" mower, but if it won't cut through the grass, "green" will simply be a concept for me. It was a disaster.
If you have thin grass that cut's easy, you're good. If not, beware! After I get done with this review, I will be putting it up for sale on Craig's List and will be looking to purchase another gas mower.
Like pushing an elephant!,
Looks good, starts up like a dream but it extremely heavy to push! AND Amazon will not take returns on this one so I'm out $400.
All I know is he went to Home Depot and bought their best electric. The salesman said if it did not do a good job bring it back. It did not and he took it back. He is much happier with the gas mower.
As a side note. When I first decided to change from a gas chainsaw I bought an electric one from Home Depot. It is ok. Then I thought I needed a battery powered chainsaw. That is a worthless POC. I gave plug-in electric one more shot and bought the Poulan 400e from Amazon. That saw I love and it was cheaper than the previous chainsaws. For those without a big budget, trying lots of different products to find a great one can be expensive and really not that environmentally sound.
My wife already has her plant list started (including an order back to the Idaho extension folks), so I have a feeling that my yard mowing may be able to be handled ok by the manual push mower that was also left behind here. She's planning 120 sq. ft. of raised beds too. If not, this would be an easy yard for an electric (although - yeah, you guessed it - there's a gas 18" mower left behind too).
Moving the greenhouse gases back to a central location has its own issues, but at least you can attack a lot of the carbon issues in one spot. Getting the juice to the house brings its own set of issues though.
Um, because I'm 47 and mowed yards for myself and other family members for about 20 of those years.
Well, like anything else, when gas mowers go the way of the rotary phone (as they will) the electric replacements will HAVE to be good enough. Push that elephant.
On manly jobs, chain saw stuff, like sawing larger limbs and trees I trust gasoline. It may be a bugger to:
a. keep 2 cycle fuel for.
b. a pain to service -i.e. air filter, cleaning, plugs, etc.
c. loud - must use hearing protection
d. exhaust fumes
e. hard to start
- but they get the job done better than alternatives provided they are well cared for.
FWIW - Cordless lawn mowers. Have had them for well over a decade. You can make them last 7-8 years with proper care. They work well for us and our small bermuda front and centipede back yards.
Quiet, no gas, no oil, no air filter, no cotton picking cords, and can turn em upside down to remove blade and sharpen or clean.
Fairly expensive to purchase(like most things these days). Ours is a Black Decker 'CMM' type model. We just have to mow on a ~regular basis~ and not let the grass grow 'out of hand'.
Hope we live to one day have a cordless automobile that will serve as well...
Huh? I see you didn't read the link, or understand it. The link was an article concerning a study on how large ice sheets have melted quickly. Try rereading it again, and see if it doesn't offer an explanation of how the Arctic ice can be melting naturally.
However an electric chainsaw is of little use 100'+ from an outlet. My driveway runs about 600' from my house and if a tree comes down across it, or anything on my 13 acres needs trimming, an electric chainsaw just isn't feasible. Same with grass cutting, though I use an electric trimmer around the house.
The lack of GW had about 15" of snow come down yesterday. I spent about 2 hours on my Craftsman tractor with snowblower attachment clearing my driveway. I had to, as I'm having heating oil delivered tomorrow. This cold weather does nothing except cause me to burn more fossil fuels. The sooner it gets above 60F year round the happier I'll be. But that sure doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. I guess I'll move South like everyone else does, when they retire. Maybe I'll brush up on my Spanish, and move to Costa Rica or such where it's warm enough to live year-round.
Not a gas generator, but something quiet that doesn't require refueling. Maybe not even have a switch on it, just some outlets.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Goodbye, Gasoline — Hello, Hydrogen (Green Car Advisor)
As of July 2007 California had 179 fuel cell vehicles and twenty five stations in operation, and ten more stations have been planned for assembly in California. However, there have already been three hydrogen fueling stations decommissioned.
http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/
Pretty funny, eh? Try the Calendar for upcoming events, that's a hoot also.
Back when I was growing up in Arkansas in the late 50's and early 60's, about a third of the local farmers ran their pick ups on CNG. Seemed to work just fine. Very little pollution and a great alternative to foreign oil. If we were serious.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I know of a guy downstate who's trying to go commercial with CNG. The trucking industry is catching on to it a bit, especially the short haul outfits.
(AR eh? I used to go fishing on Lake Conway back in the 60s ).
I think Honda still sells the GX? Not sure where.
Like these?
http://www.cleancarmaps.com/home/sitelistsearchlpg.php?type=LPG
CNG is still used by Phoenix Metro buses.
At least in CA and UT according to the Civic GX website.
http://www.cleancarmaps.com/home/sitelistsearchlpg.php?type=LPG
PS
I am thankful I did not convert my PU in 1996 as I wanted to. That would have been $5000 wasted.
They were giving away trips to there on Wheel of Fortune tonight. Sounded so good.
198. Madera - Tesei Petroleum Get Map Get Directions Fuel Type: Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG),
1300 S. Gateway Drive Madera, CA 93637
Madera County Operational?: Currently Operational
338. Riverside - City of Riverside Get Map Get Directions Fuel Type: Electric Inductive Small, Electric Conductive, Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG), Hydrogen
8095 Lincoln Avenue Riverside, CA 92504
Riverside County Operational?: Currently Operational
So, your point made. Not a lot of them. But my guess is that most GX owners have a home station.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The last bus-ride I was on someone decided to smoke, and the bus driver nearly pulled the bus over and called the cops. I'd probably get arrested in a confrontation with a lot of these people, if I rode the bus more than a few times/year.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/14/pf/anna_newell_jones/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hp- t=Sbin
Looks like NJ will be collecting revenue from bike riders soon. They are proposing a license fee every two years. Makes sense, as the cost of creating bike lanes is expensive.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/01/13/nj-politician-proposes-license-plate- - s-for-bicycles/
Some of the most discourteous people on the road are bike riders. With a license mandatory front and back it would be very easy to photo cite the lawbreakers.
Would make a lot of sense to swap out many of the stop signs for yields for cars (or just take them down entirely). Why idle at an empty intersection?
I have a metal bike license on my frig. It's stamped 1958.
Who would be at fault if the bicyclist made a mistake and got flattened ? (mistakes do happen)
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Just treat it like a yield sign.
Scientists warn California could be struck by winter ‘superstorm’ (Yahoo)
We have been duped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO63oWe6XXo&feature=player_embedded
In light of all the evidence that refutes MMGW, anyone who defends the concept is obviously trying to further the goals of the scam or they are just not very well informed.
When the liars are backed into a corner and faced with the fact that they have no proof, they just start screaming for us to "prove MMGW is not happening". A favorite trick of all con men.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The debate will be outside in the evening. I suggest layers topped with a puffy down-coat. You can tell us how the current climate is warming so much, and that we should want to keep it the same. After about 20 min of you freezing, I'll let you into my oil-heated house, which is about the only way, the northern areas keep a modern lifestyle and can still be inhabited.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
And at this point, neither of us can prove man's influence IS or ISN'T impacting global climate.
Thus the debate continues.
We do have these facts:
1. Data was compromised to try and prove AGW.
2. Those involved in the AGW movement are cashing in on a theory.
3. While the ice in the Arctic may be melting, it is building up in the Antarctic.
4. Many, Many scientists were added to the consensus without their permission.
5. Many, many scientists will agree it could be warming, there is NO evidence that CO2 has anything to do with the warming.
Did you watch the 12 minute video I posted? That has a lot of scientists that are not buying the UN, East Anglia & UK Guardian lies.