Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

houdini1

Hey larsb, where you at ???

larsb

Well, Perth reports hottest year ever was 2011.
UK reports 2011 as 2nd hottest year ever.
Texas had 2nd hottest year and driest year ever.
Switzerland has 2011 as the hottest year ever.
Delaware had 2011 as the hottest year ever.
New Jersey reports it both the HOTTEST and the WETTEST year.
Spain has it as the hottest year ever.

Overall, globally, 2011 seems to be the 9th or 10th warmest year in the last 33 years, even with all the cold snaps.

Keeping the trend of recent warm years intact !!!

So, the debate on if the warming is occurring is again not showing much hope on the "denier" side.

The CAUSE of the warming is still under investigation..... :shades: :shades: :shades:

kernick

No. Not even close!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/environment/story/2012-01-11/greenhouse- -gases-power-plants/52502466/1

gagrice

I hope the EPA remembers that the sulfur dioxide emitted by the Coal powered plants is responsible for global cooling. So let's balance it our with a few more BIG COAL POWERED plants. :shades:

gagrice

Alaska has broken records for cold and snow fall this year. I talked to my buddy that moved to Anchorage in 1970 when I did. He said he can never remember this much snow. Not even close. I have not talked to him today. Sounds like they are getting a bunch more. They are finally ready to get out of AK and move where it is a bit warmer in the winter. Here is the place they are contemplating.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11005-E-Johnson-Ln-Cornville-AZ-86325/8779692_- zpid/

Here is his back yard as of last week.

gagrice

I have just about had it with CFL bulbs. The round decorator CFL bulbs in the Bathrooms are dying fast. When I bought them to change out all the lights in the house, the electric company was offering them all for under a buck a piece. I went down to replace the ones that are dying a premature death. Much shorter lifespan than most incandescent bulbs. The ones that match what I have in the bathrooms are now $7.52 EACH. Thankfully I kept all the Light bulbs I pulled out. The first bathroom now has the 6 bulbs replaced with the old bulbs. That gives me a few more spares for the other two bathrooms. LEDs are still waaaay over priced and reviews say they have a rather short life span in spite of the hype. I don't have kids leaving lights on so I don't anticipate a big jump in electricity. CFLs seemed like a good idea at the time. Not at the current prices.

stever

We finally got 3 or 4 inches today. Did you see where Cordova is getting it's more typical rain at last. Can you say two feet of slush?

I had a bulb go out in my little workshop in the basement so I grabbed one out of the box of "left behind" bulbs here. Got immersed in soldering my keyboard cord and piddling around. Couple of hours later I saw a little movement and realized that the little pull sting on the bare fixture had burned off from the heat.

Lucky I didn't walk away and burn the house down. Got a CFL down there now.

Best headline today:

Global warming might make lizards super-intelligent (io9.com)

gagrice

CFL bulbs get hot and from time to time burn out the sides. I have had two do that. I always handle CFLs with leather gloves. Nasty critters. You need to install florescent shop lights in your work area. Though NOTHING electric is 100% safe.

stever

Got a set of those too. My CFLs seem to run a lot cooler than any of my old incandescents.

gagrice

For sure, but still hot enough to burn you. Though I don't think they are hot enough to start a fire unless they have a blowout. You will become a believer when you see the sparks fly out of one. Hopefully they perfect the LEDs and get the price down to a reasonable level.

stever

Heh, I was just cleaning out in the basement (got someone coming tomorrow morning to clean and tune the furnace). After fooling around half an hour I went to each of the CFLs down there and was able to grab the glass for ten seconds and hold on tight.

Since my basement doesn't have a finished ceiling and the exposed wood has been drying for 100+ years, I like the idea of cool bulbs down there. I do forget to turn them off some nights.

I got a 9 bulb led flashlight a few months back for $1.99, so maybe it won't be much longer until the led lightbulbs get down in price.

kernick

I've had the same experience with those round, decorator style CFL's using them in my bathroom. I started using them this year, and I have maybe 2 or 3 left of the original 6. The "soft-serve" style CFL seems to be much, much better.

I only buy the CFL's when they're on sale, and the elec. company posts instant-rebate slips with them.

Oh, I replaced a few spotlights on the house with CFL's and the light output is awful.

One other thought on incandescents and their heat generation. It's not a big deal during heating season. Any heat the bulbs generate, are a substitute for some other fuel we burn. In my case the bulbs use in winter, means a little less oil burned. The heat from the bulbs help heat my house. I switch the bulbs out seasonally.

kernick

From the data I've heard, it is the Arctic which has shown the most GW. Supposedly the ice is melting away oh so fast. Well the stories from there, don't jive with the GW data.

In fact it sounds more like that when fuels do run low, or get even more expensive in the coming decades, that many areas of Alaska will have to be abandoned.

Note that gasoline isn't in short supply, because it is too cold to run snowmobiles.

http://www.weather.com/outlook/weather-news/news/articles/harsh-alaska-winter_20- 12-01-14

houdini1

Great article in today's WSJ. Pretty much verifies what a lot of us already knew. GW is a money/political issue promoted by con men.

larsb

Dude, Please.....con men aren't melting the ice in the arctic.

Nor are they making the world's temps higher than average in 30 of the last 35 years.

Are there some people who use panic as a method of conning the "weaker-minded" of the populace? YES.

Is that new?
NO. (see the snake oil salesmen of the 19th century)

So, there's that................

alltorque

Naughty, naughty. GW is dead. It was replaced by CC - Climate Change. You can't argue with Climate Change; it's been going on for millions of years, (or longer - long before automobiles, central heating, man et al).

Doesn't stop it being used as a financial/political scam game promoted by con men, though. :mad:

Same game, different name.

gagrice

Still plenty of Arctic Ice for anyone that wants it. I would love to see the Arctic as it was when Palm trees swayed in the breezes. And woolie mammoths & saber toothed tigers roamed the vast tundra. Long before man spewed any CO2.

Tanker carrying fuel arrives at iced-in Nome, Alaska

The especially harsh winter has left snow piled up 10 feet or higher against the wood-sided buildings in Nome, a former gold rush town that is the final stop on the Iditarod dog sled race. On Sunday, everything was covered in a layer of wind-blown snow and vehicles looked frozen in place, as though they haven't been moved in weeks.

All time records for cold and snow broken this winter in Alaska. CC yes MMGW NO.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/story/2012-01-16/nome-alaska-tanker-arrives- -iced-in/52593438/1

larsb

Gary says, "CC yes MMGW NO."

How many times we gotta go over this, Gary?

"Climate Change" does NOT mean that there will NEVER again be snow or ice records set.

It does NOT mean that EVERY YEAR will be hotter than the next.

It does NOT mean that artic ice will CONSTANTLY shrink.

It DOES mean that temps will keep trending on the "hotter than average" side.

It DOES mean that we STILL AREN'T SURE about man's role in the WARMING.

We still need to research it.

Anyone who says "I know for SURE that man is not contributing to a hotter planet" is JUST AS WRONG right now as someone who says "I know for SURE that man IS DEFINITELY contributing to a hotter planet."

There is more truth in this one post by me than anything AlGore has EVER said.

gagrice

Anyone who says "I know for SURE that man is not contributing to a hotter planet" is JUST AS WRONG right now as someone who says "I know for SURE that man IS DEFINITELY contributing to a hotter planet."

I agree and resent the government charging me more for fuel and electricity based on the theory that man is the MAJOR cause of GW.

houdini1

Most of that sounds reasonable. I don't disagree with you so much as I disagree with those that say MMGW is a done deal and are bilking billions out of our anemic economy RIGHT NOW.

monksterman

This gal's the bomb! Skip ahead (if you're of the faint of heart as regards the initial subject matter as she eviscerates said Pres. candidate) to around 4:52 where she spells out in a rather clever way the obvious take on this threads subject!

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95pbcGIWE4

stever

Not really on topic but it is fun to talk about the weather. Got home a couple of days ago and ran some errands. Shared the road with a snowmachiner and not a minute later there was some guy my age riding his mountain bike down main street. Shoveled a foot of snow two days ago. Today the sidewalks and streets are mostly bare.

At least more of the ski hills are open as are most of the snowmachine trails, but if you want to go, you'd best not wait. Might be tennis weather next week. The locals are just shaking their heads since usually the snow would fall by mid-November and not leave until March. Hasn't been that way here the last two winters at least.

The Farmers Almanac pretty much got it wrong with their doom and gloom winter forecast. (newarkadvocate.com).

fintail

And last week here we had the most snow since 2008 and the biggest ice event since 1996, with more than 300K people without power. Today, sun is out and you'd never know it happened.

monksterman

Of course there's no debate...AMONGST THEMSELVES.....now if they go to a unbiased third party, there might just be a debate.

To me it is the height of arrogance to think, for the nanosecond that "modern" human beings have been on the planet vis a vis the planet's "age", that humans are the PRIMARY cause??? You mean that 9 octillian fusion ball called the sun is behind man as far as causation is concerned?

NO debate?? :mad: Excuse me? Just like when the "consensus" that the world was flat?

I thought that modern "Science" was all about positing a theory....not dictating an absolute.

But what do I know, I'm not getting paid by a Government or UN Grant!!!

stever

Seems like much of the time it boils down to do you want to trust a group like the American Meteorological Society that says "Human activities are a major contributor to climate change" or do you want to believe a poll?

Global warming skeptics to take center stage in Portland (oregonlive.com)

Today's fun weather included sharing the road with a cross-country skier. And saw a pickup pulling a snowmachine trailer jack-knifed into a snow bank when they couldn't stop and make the turn at a highway intersection. And I got out of my wagon this morning at a stop sign to shut my hatch and almost fell down three times. Sure didn't feel slick driving the car. Blowing 25 and drifting here. Pretty fun climate happening.

gagrice

Not that long ago it seems these so called scientists blamed our GW on our transportation. Then IPCC says only 15%. Latest I heard is 80% is our power generation. So why the big push for electric vehicles and hybrids?

CA is going to mandate EVs again. We are governed in CA by the most irrational, idiotic bunch of legislators known to modern man. They did this once before then pulled the rug out from under GM on the EV-1.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/transportation/california-to-consider-a-more-str- - ingent-electric-vehicle-mandate/1357

PS
hit near 80 here today. Kind of windy.

gagrice

Forget global warming - it's Cycle 25 we need to worry about (and if NASA scientists are right the Thames will be freezing over again)
Met Office releases new figures which show no warming in 15 years


The supposed ‘consensus’ on man-made global warming is facing an inconvenient challenge after the release of new temperature data showing the planet has not warmed for the past 15 years.

The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.

Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.

We are now at what should be the peak of what scientists call ‘Cycle 24’ – which is why last week’s solar storm resulted in sightings of the aurora borealis further south than usual. But sunspot numbers are running at less than half those seen during cycle peaks in the 20th Century.

Analysis by experts at NASA and the University of Arizona – derived from magnetic-field measurements 120,000 miles beneath the sun’s surface – suggest that Cycle 25, whose peak is due in 2022, will be a great deal weaker still.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cy- cle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html

I know this will be a tough pill for the MMGW doomsayers to handle. I want my money back from the CA CO2 mandates that have raised the price of Electricity. Maybe we can get a class action suit against Al Gore. Strip him of his millions made with his false claims.

gagrice

Earlier this week, Stimulus beneficiary Evergreen Energy bit the dust. Then, Ener1, a manufacturer of batteries for electric vehicles and recipient of Stimulus largesse, filed for bankruptcy. And today, the Las Vegas Sun reports that Amonix, Inc., a manufacturer of solar panels that received $5.9 million from the Porkulus, will cut two-thirds of its workforce, about 200 employees, only seven months after opening a factory in Nevada.

http://www.globalwarming.org/2012/01/27/drip-drip-drip-yet-another-green-energy-- stimulus-recipient-hits-the-skids-the-third-this-week/

larsb

Gary says, "Maybe we can get a class action suit against Al Gore. Strip him of his millions made with his false claims."

But to do that, you'd have to PROVE that man plays NO ROLE.

And that proof cannot be made...

gagrice

No just prove the lies in his movie and his CC scam. His scam had nothing to do with MMGW. It had to do with distorting facts to push his money making agenda. Of course the justice of it is Tipper will take him to the cleaners and end up spending most of it living in their gigantic carbon footprint.

gagrice

Freeze to death...

Bitter cold records broken in Alaska – all time coldest record nearly broken, but Murphy’s Law intervenes
Posted on January 30, 2012 by Anthony Watts

Jim River, AK closed in on the all time record coldest temperature of -80°F set in 1971, which is not only the Alaska all-time record, but the record for the entire United States. Unfortunately, it seems the battery died in the weather station just at the critical moment.

This winter has convinced my son to get out as soon as they can sell their home. Trying to get him to move to Hawaii and buy bank owned properties and remodel them. So I have a place to stay over there. :shades:

stever

Except that neither the intrument nor the battery were rated for anything below minus 40.

Talking to my Seward friend a little bit ago. He says it doesn't make much difference once it gets twenty below. :shades:

gagrice

Yeah right, I go out in a T-shirt at -20. Not at minus 40 or 50. In fact my favorite times living in AK was snowmachining at -10 to -20 degrees.

Bottom line is CC is real, MMGW is speculation.

PS
What are you doing to the Website. It has been goofy all day. Why do people keep messing around when things are working well?

stever

Minus ten was my XC skiing cut-off. Funny, I didn't like getting out in town when it was that cold, but if I was visiting at a friend's cabin somewhere, we'd just go.

No idea what they are doing (or not doing) with the forum part of the website back in the home office. Frustrating. Tickets have been submitted yada yada.

Maybe it's the solar storm. :surprise:

gagrice

Generally Snow machiners dress warmer than XC skiers. When it gets up to zero a mask is too warm and the humidity to high. Snow is better below zero as well. What was interesting is 20 below in MN was much colder feeling than 20 below in Anchorage area. I remember in the early 1980s, I would go from 40 below in Deadhorse to 20 below in Minnesota and freeze my butt off.

Looking at the current temp in Alexandria MN it is 33 degrees and 94% humidity. That is very uncomfortable weather. Not to mention making the roads horrible to drive on if there is any snow left. Give me a warm rain in Hilo any day over most anyplace I have been.

So far this GW is a bust. Our last 3 summers have been much below normal. Daytime temps this fall and winter are below normal. The strange part is overnight temps are above normal. I am used to winter temp swings from 28 overnight to 80 during the day. We are only swinging from 45-65 night and day. Very strange indeed. Some of my Plumeria still have their leaves. Still getting tomatoes. Much slower growing though.

stever

Well, yeah, if you're on a machine, you're just sitting there. Have to have heated handgrips and the works while you're burning that fossil fuel. :P

The humidity does make a difference (it's less here than we were anticipating; was thinking our bread would mold fast, but it doesn't). The coldest I've ever been in my life was sitting through a ballgame at the Liberty Bowl in Memphis in December back in the 70s.

For XC skiing, often the snow felt slower at minus ten. Too sharp perhaps or maybe the snow didn't melt enough from the friction to make the base nice and slippery?

Just came back from the beach and skis would have been nice - had to posthole a bit in my jeans and sneakers to get there (yeah, I'm always so well prepped, lol) , but luckily there was a snowmachine track to follow for most of a mile. Saw one lone bald eagle sitting on a ridge of shore ice looking, I suppose, for dead fish.

The weather has been a bit odd, but around here it seems back to normal now.

Looks like the Coast Guard ice breaker and the Russian tanker entered ice-free waters in the southern Bering Sea yesterday.

houdini1

I agree that the feeling of being cold can sometimes be very wacky. The coldest I can remember being was about 25 years ago in Ft. Myers, Florida.

We were playing golf, dressed in shorts and T-shirts...some sort of northern clipper came thru and the temp dropped from the 70's to in the 40's in about 10 minutes. Strong wind and misting, blowing rain. I still shiver just remembering it.

gagrice

My step dad served in the submarine duty at the end of WW2 and the Korean conflict. He was tossed overboard when the crossed into the Bering sea as a regular ritual. He said the coldest he ever was is standing watch in the San Francisco Bay. That cold damp air would go right through a wool Pea Coat.

Coldest I ever got was splicing a telephone cable a minus 40 degrees with a horrible wind. The Deadhorse Airport was reporting 115 below chill factor. We had to get the cable spliced for the Air traffic control people. A couple fingers got frost bit on that occasion.

houdini1

The Deadhorse Airport was reporting 115 below chill factor.

You win the Chilly Willy award !!

gagrice

San Diego Gas and Electric is trying to comply with environmental laws and are constantly harassed by the eco nuts. It was the environmentalist that forced a power line to be built through a very remote area only accessible by helicopter. Another group of eco nuts have tried to block their progress because it is a golden eagle habitat. At the current rate we will never get power from proposed solar plant being built in the desert. One day soon these eco nuts will plug in their EV and there will not be any electricity. We are being strangled by over regulation. Everybody wants clean energy. No one wants to allow it to be built. Several solar and wind projects are on hold due to conflicting environmental agencies. NIMBY :sick:

SDG&E entered eagle ''no-fly'' zone
Violations by Sunrise Powerlink helicopters come despite GPS effort

larsb

I think this one is a problem without a solution.

No need to keep harping about it. It will never change. It's a part of the way things work.

I don't need to see more stories about it....it's the same old thing every time.

gagrice

You are not worried because you have solar with cheap coal power backup. We have eco nuts to the max, blocking every bit of progress both good and bad. It is not the same old thing. It gets worse every time I turn around. Some nut is laying in front of a project. And I as a tax payer and utility payer am getting screwed. All for the myth that man is causing the climate to change. Right now my thought is I hope the Indians shoot that pair of eagles when they fly over the Rez and use them for a dream catcher.

larsb

No, the actual reason I'm not worried is:

because it's something completely out of my control.

And yours.

And why waste time worrying about that?

As long as there is civilization, there are going to be these two sides fighting with one another.

Just accept it as one of the evils of society and MOVE ON.

houdini1

You should have that same attitude about Climate Change....and move on.

larsb

AH-HA !! You left yourself wide open for this one...

I *can* and *do* have control over my part in that.....I pollute far less than the average Joe Public, as you know....

I live in Phoenix where the air is DURTY and I like being as low on the pollution totem pole as I can....that's why I've put more than $10,000 of my money into energy improvements in my home.

On this issue, I *CAN* do something about it.... :shades:

gagrice

DURTY air has nothing to do with GW. It is good that you do your part. I can tell you from my last trip to your state it is not working. The dust storms keep getting worse. And latest scientific information says the SO2 from coal powered generators and volcanoes, actually block the sun's rays causing Global Cooling.

I think you should do something about those horrible dust storms.

stever

The greens say "any serious effort to fight global warming must include cutting auto emissions." (EDF)

Passenger car emissions used to be dirtier, but I don't see anyone suggesting we quit putting catalytic converters on cars.

January was USA's 4th-warmest on record. In the lower 48 at least. (USA Today)

larsb

gagrice says, "DURTY air has nothing to do with GW."

I *BEG* to differ, kind sir.....

And surely you know this thing you said to be an untrue statement.....so why would you even say that?

gagrice

A little research will show you that the dust storms in Phoenix have the opposite effect of lowering the temps.

That said, Phoenix at one time had some of the healthiest air in the country. So it must be man that has changed it. Most think it is caused by farming.

houdini1

I beg to differ kind sir. No need to keep harping about it, it is just the way things work.