Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

gagrice

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/08/glaciers-mountains?intcmp=122

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/02/08/earths-polar-ice-melting-less-tha- n-thought

houdini1

LOL, even those articles tried to downplay the significance of another major blunder.

gagrice

Naturally, they are main stream rags that bought the whole AGW scam lock, stock and barrel.

gagrice

'I Feel Duped on Climate Change'

I want new scientific findings to be included in the climate debate. It would then become clear that the simple equation that CO2 and other man-made greenhouse gases are almost exclusively responsible for climate change is unsustainable. It hasn't gotten any warmer on this planet in almost 14 years, despite continued increases in CO2 emissions. Established climate science has to come up with an answer to that.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,813814,00.html

stever

Sounds like someone trying to sell his new book.

Meanwhile I'm selling one of my snowboards. Not enough white stuff on the hills to need two in rotation.

The nice thing about the ice caps not shrinking as much story is that the tech is available to be able to measure such stuff (in this case the weight of glaciers and ice caps).

Ice caps not shrinking as much as once thought, new data show (Christian Science Monitor)

gagrice

It seems that selling propaganda books & movies is all the rage in science, politics and academia. Are there any honest scientists or Professors left. We know that by their nature Lawyers & politicians are all liars.

We are currently in a dry year here. A very unusual winter. Not all that warm and not all that cold. No frost at our place so far. We are hoping it will not frost late as all the Cherries and plums are blossoming. Watched a monarch come out of its cocoon and fly away yesterday.

larsb

At least we are warm in the USA - except those sad sacks who gotta live in Alaska...

Warming still going...

U.S. Climate Highlights -- Winter to Date (December 2011-January 2012)
The first two months of the winter season, December and January, have been much warmer than average for the contiguous United States. The two-month period was the fourth warmest on record with an average temperature 3.8 degrees F above average. Much of the warmth was anchored across the northern and eastern United States. Minnesota was record warm for the period, with an average temperature 10.1 degrees F above average. A total of twenty-two states from Montana to Maine had December-January temperatures ranking among their ten warmest.
Despite a large winter storm which impacted the western U.S. during January, much of the region was drier than average. California had its fourth driest December-January period, and Montana had its sixth. Wetter-than-average conditions were observed in a string of states from New Mexico to New York, with Texas having its eleventh wettest two-month period.
U.S. Climate Highlights -- Last 12 months (February 2011-January 2012)
The 12-month period, ending in January, was the sixth warmest such period for the contiguous United States, with warmer-than-average temperatures dominating the eastern two-thirds of the nation. Seven states -- Delaware, New Jersey, North Carolina, Maryland, Rhode Island, Texas, and Virginia -- were record warm for the period, while an additional 18 states had 12-month temperatures ranking among their ten warmest. Oregon and Washington were the only states with below-average temperatures during the period.
The nationally-averaged precipitation total for the 12-month period was near average, masking regional extremes. The Ohio Valley and Northeast were record wet for the period, with seven states within those regions also being record wet. Dry conditions were present along the southern tier of the nation from New Mexico to South Carolina.

stever

It's all good. Some guys bend the envelope just to get some attention but all that adversarial hammering gets you closer to some essential truths. Gets a bit hard to stomach sometimes though.

And then some outlier comes along and turns everything upside down.

gagrice

I check the Temps where my daughter lives in Evansville Indiana. Many days over the fall and winter were warmer there than here in San Diego. However their over night lows were well below us. It could be warmer and you would not hear me complain. Though my favorite place Hilo, is nearly ruler flat year round. Just the way I like it. Lows about 60 highs about 80. Low yesterday 65 high 79. Now that is perfect weather and AGW has not changed it at all. The Volcano may cause the other side of the island discomfort.

houdini1

Overall, quite chilling news for GW devotees !! They must be shivering in their boots.

stever

"India is producing power from solar cells more cheaply than by burning diesel for the first time, spurring billionaire Sunil Mittal and Coca-Cola Co.’s mango supplier to jettison the fuel in favor of photovoltaic panels." Bloomberg

So, a side effect of GW would be more and perhaps cheaper diesel to burn in your TDIs.

gagrice

Sadly the USA is not part of the Solar manufacturing picture. We blew it by shutting down the mines that produce the raw materials needed. I would not expect China to sell natural resources, only finished goods. I am waiting until the Payback is like 3 years and I will get solar panels. Should happen within a couple more years.

The cause was a 51 percent drop in panel prices last year as the world’s 10 largest manufacturers, led by China’s Suntech Power Holdings Co., doubled output capacity.

“Solar is going mainstream in India, helped by Chinese pricing,”

stever

Ah, got friends in Chattanooga who would disagree with you on that.

"German chemicals manufacturer Wacker Chemie is building a new polysilicon plant in the state of Tennessee, US. The plant will manufacture hyperpure polycrystalline silicon to tap the anticipated growth in demand from the solar and semiconductor industries.

The new plant will be built in a 550-acre (220ha) site in Bradley County in Cleveland. The facility will be a fully integrated site that will produce 15,000mt of polysilicon a year. Wacker will invest about €1.1bn ($1.5bn) in the project that is expected to create about 650 jobs."

Wacker Chemie Polysilicon Plant, United States of America (chemicals-technology.com)

Not sure if it's changed, but the usual rule of thumb for a payback period for an energy efficiency improvement is 7 years.

gagrice

Body Blow To German Global Warming Movement! Major Media Outlets Unload On “CO2 Lies!”

“THE CO2 LIES … pure fear-mongering … should we blindly trust the experts?”

That’s what Germany’s leading daily Bild wrote in its print and online editions today, on the very day that renowned publisher Hoffmann & Campe officially released a skeptic book – one written by a prominent socialist and environmental figure.

What has set it all off? One of the fathers of Germany’s modern green movement, Professor Dr. Fritz Vahrenholt, a social democrat and green activist, decided to author a climate science skeptical book together with geologist/paleontologist Dr. Sebastian Lüning. Vahrenholt’s skepticism started when he was asked to review an IPCC report on renewable energy. He found hundreds of errors. When he pointed them out, IPCC officials simply brushed them aside. Stunned, he asked himself, “Is this the way they approached the climate assessment reports?”

http://notrickszone.com/2012/02/06/body-blow-to-german-global-warming-movement-m- ajor-media-outlets-unload-on-co2-lies/

I wondered how long it would take before Real Science won out over Political Driven Science.

larsb

"REAL science" has about as much of a chance of proving that MMGW does NOT exist as "AlGore science" has of proving it DOES.

(stalemate continues)

gagrice

Real Science does not set out to prove any preconceived idea. MMGW started out as a political agenda. And the Feds threw $millions in hopes of promoting their agenda. It was the brainchild of Al Gore. In his 1992 book "Earth in the Balance" he set out to promote that global warming was caused by the internal combustion engine. Any scientist that would add credence to his unscientific ideas was lavished with government money. He was a ranking Senator and soon to be VP. I don't see the earth getting warmer or cooler as relevant to AGW. The concept was ill conceived and now the real scientific community that just jumped on the fast moving bandwagon are taking a closer look at what has been pushed as facts.

houdini1

Here is how scams like this work.

Some fast talking, double dealing conman invents a problem...like maybe...in the year 2050 the world will be destroyed because people are eating too many oranges. Send money so we can work to prevent this catastrophe.

The lunatics, and some of the just plain gullible fall for it...they always do. Those true believers who buy into it hook, line, and sinker, send their money in and start preaching and crusading for others to do the same.

After a while, when the con starts to unravel, the con man and his followers pull out the old try to prove a negative trick: "Well, let's just see you prove that it is not going to happen".

Some will never admit they were duped. There truly is one born every minute.

gagrice

stever

Need to swap the coal bin and oil tank for natural gas. Coal is getting hammered.

Coal demand falls as cheap gas cuts use to 20-year low (pittsburghlive.com)

The mild winter in much of the US isn't helping either (not to mention new solar coming on line all the time).

gagrice

It couldn't happen at a more opportune time with several Coal Generators being forced off line. The biggest advantage for gas is it makes very small generators practical. Very easy to pop one into a substation to increase electricity on an as needed basis. Looks like they have some gas generation systems that are 50-60% efficient.

http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/uses_eletrical.asp

PS
send the excess coal to China to help our balance of trade.

stever

Seems like Idaho Power had some natural gas generating plants that fit in a semi trailer. Just need a pipeline nearby and you were up in running.

Well, that and a transmission line. :shades:

Nice thing about stand-alone solar, like my off-grid friends in NM have, is that you don't need much in the way of infrastructure.

gagrice

I like the idea of standalone solar. You just need batteries to store up what you will need at night. What did your friends do about snow on their panels?

stever

They have a big battery bank for storage. For snow, they just broom it off but they don't get tons.

gagrice

IN your wanderings in the NE part of NM did you go through Chimayo? A good friend of ours just bought a place there. Packed up their belongings and moved up there. She called to say they arrived safely and did not feel as cold there as when they left here. We are lucky this winter when we get a day over about 65. Our normal winter day will get as warm as 80. Damp and cool has been the last two winters. NO frost which is also abnormal. I am going through firewood at an expensive rate. Not to mention propane. Which should have come down in price as it is made from Natural Gas. What gives with that?

stever

Chimayo is a wonderful spot. :shades: Home of the Ortega and Trujillo families, famous weavers. Got to meet Irvin Trujillo last trip and watched him (and his wife) weave for half an hour while my wife examined every rug in the gallery. He's a weaving rock star but a really nice guy. Saw a lot of his stuff hanging in the museums there. Our solar friends have several more practical rugs from Ortega's.

If only it was a few thousand feet lower in elevation I could see living there.

gagrice

Oh wow, I have been to Chimayo. I went through the Ortega shop in the early 1970s. My wife was sent to school in Albuquerque, several times from Anchorage. There was language classes she took. And I would wander around the state during the day. That is too cool. I am sure they will like it there. That was almost 40 years ago. Ortega rugs jogged my memory of that little town. We plan to go visit. My sister lives SW of Albuquerque. I see he gets a lot more for rugs than when I bought one 40 years ago...

The elevation gets me as well. Especially flying from sea level to 5000 ft or more just knocks me out.

stever

My issue is that it makes for colder winters. That's the problem with our friends up near Taos; they're around 7,000 feet iirc. Las Cruces looks better, weather wise. Still 4,000 feet but further south. Until GW really hits; then Taos would be okay. :-)

stever

Really. And it may help cool things down.

"The time frame is short, but if future observations show that clouds are truly getting lower, it could have an important effect on global climate change. Clouds that are lower in the atmosphere would allow Earth to cool more efficiently, potentially offsetting some of the warming caused by greenhouse gases."

Sky actually falling, report scientists (csmonitor.com)

houdini1

Al Gore will soon be sounding the alarm and starting research for ways to make a few bucks on this calamity. Let's get those gov. (taxpayer) research grants rolling in.

Oh the humanity...

gagrice

Clouds are a wildcard in understanding Earth's climate. Ephemeral as they are, they're difficult to track over time, and factors such as height and location make a big difference in whether clouds will slow the effects of global warming or exacerbate them. And no one fully understands how clouds will respond to a warming climate.

What about the sun and volcanoes, they seem to be wild cards in the CC picture? Yet the scientific community paid by the warmers, says it is a DONE DEAL. Man causes CC. They go to big fancy conference vacations on the tax payers of many poor countries and decide the USA should hand out $trillions to somehow fix what they don't even understand.

kernick

Yet the scientific community paid by the warmers, says it is a DONE DEAL.

Scientists are the same genetically and have the same psychology - wants and needs, of those centuries ago. Science for generations often hold scientific theories and laws that were false and look ridiculous today.

I'm not about to jump on any bandwagon, especially when I see billions of $'s being redirected to certain people as a result, and the supposed facts being funneled to a handful people who have a bias ($$) in seeing a certain result presented. And according to some of the best minds in science, we are still at least 25 years away from having the computing power to run a decent model of the climate. Seeing how computing power increases so quickly, today's computers must be making a very, very crude simulation.

stever

Judging by this critter in the neighborhood, this headline makes sense.

Melting Arctic link to cold, snowy UK winters (BBC).



The piles are getting up there. :-)

kernick

If true we need to increase the rate of warming, to get the Arctic "warm" so that there is no where for the cold-air to exist. The Earth's average temp. is about 59F. So 11F to 16F increase is what we should be striving for.

stever

Well, the theory this week is all that "unseasonable" warm air is colliding with the cold fronts and spawning tornadoes left and right. I'm down in Chattanooga this weekend and it's a mess out past the VW plant.

'Tis fun seeing the daffodils blooming and some dogwood and fruit trees in bloom.

kernick

Ah, I envy your lifestyle - you get to explore America, and still have the reason and time to Host us! Enjoy the weather.

In NH we just had a decent-sized snowstorm. We've been told it's been one of the warmest winters on record, but the winter still costs me quite a bit in heating-oil and space heaters, on top of a woodstove being fed many days. And we keep the thermostats down to <65F when home, or 55F when sleeping. So we'll take all the warming we can get. If it starts getting really warm in the summer, I'll consider getting an AC unit; or I'll just go swimming more.

stever

Got to St. Pete last night and it's 65 but feels like 55 with the stiff breeze, and clouds and fog are predicted this week. Not complaining mind you. :-)

Meanwhile it's almost 50 back home and it's not even 9 am. Too strange. At least our catsitter won't break her neck on ice and snow negotiating the sidewalk to the back door.

gagrice

My buddy in Anchorage, sent pics of his place yesterday. It is still snowing and they are way over all time records.

After a jaw-dropping blizzard on Monday (Jan. 9), a record-breaking 81.3 inches (207 centimeters) of snow has fallen in Anchorage this winter, the National Weather Service (NWS) said today (Jan. 12). That's nearly 7 feet (2.1 meters) of snow.

The total is a new record for most snow from July to Jan. 11. This year's total so far is nearly double what Anchorage usually receives by that date &#151; certainly not the wimpy winter the rest of the country has had. The new record is 4 inches more than the previous record, set in 1977.



http://news.discovery.com/earth/snow-record-anchorage-120113.html

Kirstie_H

A reporter is looking to hear from Republican and Democrat consumers who want to discuss the Chevy Volt. If you are a Republic or a Democrat, and are willing to discuss the Volt with a reporter, please email PR@edmunds.com no later than noon Pacific /3p.m. Eastern Wednesday, March 7, 2012 with your daytime contact information.

Kirstie_H

Wow. Strange indeed. I got up here in Kansas City at 7am to a balmy 62 degrees. Wind is blowing like crazy, but it hit 70+ yesterday and should get close today.

gagrice

We are still at 39 degrees and sunny @8:45 am in San Diego. We had a little hail storm an hour ago. This is the strangest winter/Spring I can remember. We have not had one day of freezing. Hit 34 one morning. But very cool days much of the Winter. Flowers are blooming trees are budding out. I hope we don't get a late frost and kill all my fruit off.

PS
Tomatoes all winter long. Just slower growing. Lots of oranges and lemons this winter.

stever

Blame it on the Arctic oscillation, the Pacific oscillation and I dunno, the ocelot oscillation. Worse for the weather than butterfly wings flapping in Mexico. :P

Now it's getting serious - Global warming called threat to ice hockey (UPI)

(Kernick, neighbors on one side are from Bangor, on the other side they'll from Portland ME. I'm guessing only NH is populated this time of year?).

houdini1

That is the thing about weather, it always seems to average out. One place gets warmer, another place gets colder. One dry, one wet, etc. If you just look at one place you get bad data. Of course, if you want bad or misleading data that's how you do it.

dave8697

Only $358/month to lease one. Allows 12k miles per year and comes out at 37 cents a mile for lease costs only for 3 yrs. In contrast, a paid off gas guzzling 16 mpg 4X4 uses 23 cents a mile for gas.
Fees amortized into special sale lease price of $299.

gagrice

I would not give up my 16 MPG SUV for a Prius if gas is $10 per gallon and they were giving the Prius away. Steve would take one if they were giving them away.

houdini1

Just look at the money you could save if you walked or got a bicycle, or if you sold your house and lived in a tent. Getting by on the cheap is not everyone's top priority.

gagrice

Most of the big names pushing the using less fossil fuel agenda, have a carbon footprint the size of Kansas. I find the whole CC use less movement a giant hypocrisy. When Tipper kicks Al out of their houses and yachts and he is living in a cave as a hunter/gatherer, I will think about cutting back a bit on the energy I use.

stever

Actually I am currently living in a tent. Almost as nice as living in a van down by the river. :-)

Save a Prius V for me please.

dave8697

Why stray off topic? riding a bicycle 27 miles to work when it's snowing, windy, and 28 degrees out will actually cost you more. Getting there and back in the dark of December 21st would be an adventure to remember.

dave8697

environmentalists angry that too much snowfall causes too much water and thus too much electric power from the Bonneville power co. from the dams in the Columbia river basin. They have to choose between killing salmon and saving salmon. Environmentalists say to either kill salmon or pay the wind farm to be shut down. A wind farm subsidized is now paid even more money to not make any electricity.

I am now paying 15 cents a KWH. Up 50% since Obama got in.

They now aren't sure that higher CO2 levels don't cause lower cloud levels and actually cools the Earth better.

larsb

Wonder how those MMGW Scam Artists pulled this one off?

Global warming causes island nation to sink

AlGore must be WAY smarter than we give him credit for. He managed to incorporate the sinking of an island nation into his "scam." WOW !!!