Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

stever

You could move back closer to the Mississippi. (CS Monitor)

gagrice

I don't think the most avid denier, will deny Climate Changes. Just pointing the finger at man and trying to extort money to mitigate the possible damage, is what I disagree with. I am sure if Al Gore was around during the Ice Age he would use that to make his millions. The whole GW cult is filled with Flim Flam artists. Leeches on our society that will do anything to get out of honest work.

The droughts from 1930-40 in some parts of the USA were far more severe than the current drought. What negative can we put on using up the Ogallala Aquifer to produce Corn? That has to be part of the current problem. And that is caused by the same Eco Wonks that want to blame it on my SUV.

stever

Good analogy; the Dust Bowl was caused by "natural" drought and man (poor farming practices causing soil erosion to occur much faster than it would under "natural" conditions).

Now we've spent a lot of dollars on extension agents and education in the US and soil erosion control has been the result, even though the problem still costs us billions a year. (news.cornell.edu) But I'm sure people in the heartland figure extension agents are leeches and clover seed companies are flim flam artists.

gagrice

Around the world, soil is being swept and washed away 10 to 40 times faster than it is being replenished, destroying cropland the size of Indiana every year, reports a new Cornell University study.

"Soil erosion is second only to population growth as the biggest environmental problem the world faces," said David Pimentel, professor of ecology at Cornell. "Yet, the problem, which is growing ever more critical, is being ignored because who gets excited about dirt?"

I agree with Pimental. He is also the professor that warned US about Corn Ethanol being a big loser. No mention of GW being a problem on a scale with over population and erosion. Or clear cutting forest to grow crops for fuel. All results of alternative energy at any cost.

stever

Keep reining in population growth and some of the other problems should mitigate some.

The forests are dying off from beetles and borers. Parts of Colorado are still on fire here in December, in part due to standing dead trees caused by beetle infestation, and GW has had a role in that. (redorbit.com)

Emerald ash borers are attacking the forests up here, but milder winters would hasten their decline even without the bugs (helium.com).

gagrice

We have some kind of beetle killing our oak trees in So CA. You cannot take deadwood off forest land for fear it will spread the bugs. And our weather has been below normal for several years. In spite of the lying sacks of you know what at the NWS. Daily the RAWS station very close to me reports temps at least 10 degrees warmer than it actually is. As an example it is currently reporting 76 degrees actual temperature is 63 degrees. Naturally the over paid scientists gathering all that information assume what they get is correct. All LIES. They live in a different world if they think it is getting warmer all over the globe. Check your own RAWS site against the local ambient temperature.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090501154147.htm

stever

Taking firewood to your campsite is frowned upon here.

Didn't the Koch Brothers' study belie the weather station issue? (Fox)

gagrice

You attach a lot of weight to Koch funding the Muller study. That means very little to me. I watched and assisted in studying everything you can imagine in the Arctic. Most was funded by BP. I am just saying if our RAWS is so far off everyday of the year, how many others are far off. It is a simple case of GIGO. I also would have to have a peer review of anything out of Berkeley. I just don't trust most of the University of CA system. They are paid to say what the Eco Nuts in charge want. It is not a matter of is the planet getting warmer or colder. It is a question of politicians using it to screw you and me out of money.

Last month, environmentalists cheered as California launched a cap-and-trade program, but talks of a federal carbon tax raised concerns about double taxation.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/09/californians-could-face-double-taxation-with-s- tate-federal-carbon-taxes/#ixzz2EhGiKMuM

stever

I have ~13 years of gas logs for the minivan. Somewhere along the line I likely transposed a few numbers and wrote down the wrong amount of gas a few times. Over time those errors "disappear" and have no affect on the bottom line mpg I get. Out to two decimal points. (This is when I miss Tidester; he'd fill in the blanks about how data evens itself over time).

Outlier data points fade in the wash.

It does amuse me no end that someone with an agenda funded a study that wound up being 180° opposite what they anticipated it would be.

I am bummed to hear about your oaks. A few years back we were around Hearst Castle and camped a few miles inland. The small campsite was full of beautiful old oaks. We were surprised that there weren't many people tenting there.

About midnight a gazillion hoot owls (great horned we assume) cranked up and kept it up til dawn. :shades:

gagrice

One has to assume that Koch hired Muller as a denier to push their agenda. Maybe they should have gotten Lord Monckton. Far less likely to buckle to liberal restraints that control this country. The point remains, warmer or colder we will have to adapt. There is no real will to kill off half the earth's population. And the emerging countries will pollute a lot more than we ever have. They will burn wood, coal or cow dung. We waste billions on scatter brained alternatives. When the best thing is to meet the problems as they arise. When we get down to low oil and gas supplies the price will rise to meet the alternatives. If the oceans rise, which is not very likely, build dykes or swim. One solution is right in front of US. Kids are less likely to be able to afford a car and the waste that goes with it. They seem to be happy walking down the street texting while listening to their music.

stever

No if about it.

"Scientists have finally published the most definitive estimate of how much sea levels have risen as a result of increased polar ice melting in the last 20 years. According to a new report published in the journal Science, see levels have risen 11mm in the past two decades." (IceNews)

With the failure of the most recent UN conference, it's becoming more clear that any solution will be local. Like CA's cap and trade idea.

In other news, the NPS has renamed a Montana park to "The National Park Formerly Known as Glacier". :shades:

gagrice

So let me get this straight. 30-40 divergent studies were put together and they came up with a possible rise in ocean levels of less than a half inch. I tell you what you can worry about GW now. I will rethink it when they are growing crops in all of Greenland. I am more worried about lying cheating crooked politicians getting into my wallet to fix something they have NO clue how to fix.

LOL about the NPS rename. Melting glaciers was John Muir's expertise. He worried about them long before cars came along. We could use the water down here in CA. If they could somehow pipe it down it would be appreciated.

gagrice

A little more on Glaciers. It seems the glaciers in the Sierra Nevada mts did not exist until about 700 years ago during the little ice age.

http://www.indiana.edu/~sierra/papers/2010/schultz.pdf

Not sure how old the Glaciers in Glacier park are. They come and go. Not much you can do about it.

gagrice

We are not as bad off as Russia. We are averaging 10 degrees below normal for most of this year. Having to burn lots of wood and propane which are both very expensive in CA.

Russia is enduring its harshest winter in over 70 years, with temperatures plunging as low as -50 degrees Celsius. Dozens of people have already died, and almost 150 have been hospitalized.

­The country has not witnessed such a long cold spell since 1938, meteorologists said, with temperatures 10 to 15 degrees lower than the seasonal norm all over Russia.

Across the country, 45 people have died due to the cold, and 266 have been taken to hospitals. In total, 542 people were injured due to the freezing temperatures, RIA Novosti reported.

The Moscow region saw temperatures of -17 to -18 degrees Celsius on Wednesday, and the record cold temperatures are expected to linger for at least three more days. Thermometers in Siberia touched -50 degrees Celsius, which is also abnormal for December.

http://rt.com/news/russia-freeze-cold-temperature-379/

houdini1

Meanwhile, the U.N. is demanding reparations from the "rich countries" (must have gotten that idea from Obama) because they are the ones who have damaged the environment in past years and caused our horrible GW.

They admit that there is no way to accurately assess the damage (what damage?) that has been caused but...they just want the money.

gagrice

Most of that money would go to crackpot dictators in 3rd World hell hole countries. So they could buy guns and ammo to keep their slave labor from rising up against them.

stever

Best start gathering your arguments for the new year; you're likely to be seeing lots more stories like this one in a few weeks:

2012 is USA's warmest year on record, so far (USA Today)

gagrice

Until they get my local RAWS close to reality, I don't believe anything the NWS or NOAA puts out. If mine is so far off, good chance many more are as well. GIGO is our government reporting the weather. Yes they got a hot spell in the Midwest last year. And a mild winter so far. That is a mere spot on the globe compared to Russia. Put another way, it costs me a lot more to keep warm in the winter than cool in the summer.

houdini1

Looks like you had to go all the way back to April to rerun that article. Can't find anything current?

I woke up this morning to 40 MPH winds, temp in 20's and lots of snow. If you are suffering from the heat, send some this way. I was hoping to have another winter like last year, but it looks like it is back to normal.

I'll bet all those people in Russia who are freezing to death would also like a little warming about now.

stever

Hm, though I was grabbing one of the current stories. Most of them this week are along the lines of "warmest year in Toledo" or "hottest NY".

Okay, here's one from the 14th of this month from EarthSky:

2012 set to be warmest year ever recorded in US.

Don't see a "world" one yet.

gagrice

Solar power fries ratepayers

A report this month by the Little Hoover Commission, an independent state oversight agency, says that the seemingly well-intentioned mandate could slap the state’s consumers with billions of dollars in unnecessary costs.

Indeed, the state’s major utilities already are warning that customers that have not gone solar will see their rates go up to subsidize customers that have installed solar panels on their rooftops.

It will amount to a $1.3 billion a year transfer from customers of Pacific Gas & Electricity, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric — whose electricity is generated by natural gas, nuclear energy, large hydro and other non-renewable sources — to the less than 1 percent of utility customers who rely on solar power.

“Join the thousands of home and business owners who have earned cash back by installing solar energy systems,” advertises the California Solar Initiative, a program overseen by the California Public Utilities Commission.

And the cost of the CSI program, a de facto tax on electricity ratepayers that haven’t gotten with the program, pales in comparison with costs borne by ratepayers and taxpayers alike to fund new solar plants throughout the Golden State.

Indeed, the Los Angeles Times this past fall lamented that “a new breed of prospectors — banks, insurers, utility companies — are receiving billions in subsidies while taxpayer(s) and ratepayers are paying most of the costs.”

Among the solar prospectors in the Mohave Desert, the Times reported, are Berkshire Hathaway, headed by gazillionaire investor Warren Buffett, General Electric, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley and Google.

And the electricity produced by the solar plants the corporations are building at the expense of California taxpayers and utility ratepayers won’t be cheap, costing two to four times as much as conventional electricity.

Stanford University economist Frank Wolak, an expert on California’s electricity market, told the Times that consumer electricity bills could rise as much as 50 percent by the time Buffet and his fellow solar prospectors are generating megawatts.

http://www.calwatchdog.com/2012/12/29/solar-power-fries-ratepayers/?utm_source=t- witterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

houdini1

Madness...but in light of everything else that is going on I guess it makes perfect sense to those making these crazy decisions.

What irks me is that most of these solar power producers will eventually go bankrupt after siphoning off most of the taxpayer cash and lining their pockets.

gagrice

Forget global warming, Alaska is headed for an ice age

So is SoCA. We have not been above 55 degrees for over a month. The NWS is not putting out honest data.

Defiant as ever, the state that gave rise to Sarah Palin is bucking the mainstream yet again: While global temperatures surge hotter and the ice-cap crumbles, the nation's icebox is getting even icier.

That may not be news to Alaskans coping with another round of 50-below during the coldest winter in two decades, or to the mariners locked out of the Bering Sea this spring by record ice growth.

Then again, it might. The 49th state has long been labeled one of the fastest-warming spots on the planet. But that's so 20th Century.

In the first decade since 2000, the 49th state cooled 2.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/forget-global-warming-alaska-headed-ice-ag- e

houdini1

Sorry, but you are simply not qualified to make this type of decision based on your own research. You have to leave it to our wonderful unbiased scientists to tell you what to believe.

How dare you !!!

gagrice

China along with Russia is pushing the global cooling agenda. Just can't trust anyone anymore.

BEIJING (AP) -- China is experiencing unusual chills this winter with its national average temperature hitting the lowest in 28 years, and snow and ice have closed highways, canceled flights, stranded tourists and knocked out power in several provinces.

China Meteorological Administration on Friday said the national average was -3.8 degrees Celsius (25 degrees Fahrenheit) since late November, the coldest in nearly three decades.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_CHINA_COLDEST_WINTER?SITE=AP&SECTION=H- OME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-05-07-52-05

scwmcan

But just because a lot of the world is colder than usual doesn't mean anything, that just local weather, as long as they can report cherry picked data that is high enough they can declare that the earth is warming and work on getting all that money sent from "rich" nations to the poor nations to make thing fair, after all since the money will really be going to a few people in those Goverments it won't cause any additional climate change will it?
I really do think this climate change thing is going to do a lot of harm, to the environmantal and green movements. I have no problem with the conserve, reduce pollution and clean up the environment ideas, but I have a big problem with the scaremongering,and trying to make it so Normal people can't live. If people ever figure out that they are being lied to ( and to be generous I'll add if they are being lied to, I am sure there is at least some truth to the climate change agenda) then I fear that it is going to backfire on the good parts of the message ( trying to make humankind's impart on the environment as minimal as possible while still having a good quality of life) and people will not believe any messages again even if there is real caus for concern( this is true for all the other fear mongering that seems to happen nowadays, like pandemic notifications for " special" flus that wind up killing/infecting fewer people than the " normal" season flus). You can only cry wolf so many times before people stop believing you.

kernick

Hello again everybody!

Otherwise the -10F and -8F readings of the last few days would be killing more people. And if we didn't burn fossil fuels this area would basically be uninhabitable for months of the year.

So seeing these temperatures are > 100F lower than my body-temperature, I really hope we do have some warming going on. Don't make my warming 1F over 50 years, I'd like +10F next year!

stever

Hey Kernick, good to see you!

Hope your winter is going well - we barely got below zero the last week, but the wind off the lake was, er, invigorating.

Here's a car related GW related story that hit the news yesterday from one of my old stomping grounds:

Volkswagen solar park heats up Chattanooga's green image (timesfreepress.com)

"Volkswagen's new 33-acre solar park, the largest at any U.S. auto plant and the biggest array in Tennessee, adds another stamp to Chattanooga's green card, officials said Wednesday.

"It tells people there is an old industrial city that has gone from smokestacks to next-generation industrial technology," said Mayor Ron Littlefield as the $25 million solar farm was officially switched on."

Haven't heard how TVA feels about it.

gagrice

If too much CO2 really makes it warmer, where is it doing that? And why are there so many cold spots around the globe? We have a few day reprieve from the coldest winter on record for So CA. Actually we had one day that it got up to 72 degrees and the liars at the NWS claimed it was 82 degrees. The last week has been warmer at night with temps only dipping into the high 40s. Much better than all of December and half of January. Maybe it is just the way things happen. People are always looking for someone else to blame for EVERYTHING. My kids in Indiana had a warmer December than we did. One snowfall and then 60s. And the taxes are a fraction of what we pay for nice weather year round. I am wanting a refund on my property taxes. :sick: I also want reimbursement for all the tropicals that got killed with the cold weather. I am thinking Phil Mickelson has the right idea, get out of Taxafornia.

gagrice

The last time I was in Chattanooga was the early 1970s. And I remember the black smoke all over the city. I guess they burned lots of coal for steam boilers. The TVA may have a complaint if the night time draw is significantly higher than the day time due to the big solar array. What happens to the excess generated during the day time by the hydroelectric generators? Can they sell it on the grid to other states? If they cannot sell it that makes a big negative for solar. The other sources still have to be maintained.

stever

When I moved there in '74, most of the heavy industry was shutting down, including the big foundry near Moccasin Bend, an area that even now continues to get gentrified (most of the fancy new development around the aquarium is downstream a bit closer to the city center).

TVA topped off a nearby mountain and dug a big hole in the ground to meet exceed demand - mostly for ACs in the summer. Raccoon Mountain Pumped-Storage Plant

TVA does sell power on the grid - my brother retired from there and he got to do that for a few months in a job rotation program, not long before Enron blew up. I used to enjoy giving him a hard time about the potassium iodine pills in his medicine cabinet that TVA distributed for a while there in case the Sequoyah nuke plant blew up.

gagrice

Pretty good idea on storing water for higher demand. We don't have any hydro around here. We just added 165 feet to one of our reservoirs for water storage. Not sure how many acre feet it will add to our growing need for water. Water along with the high cost of energy to distribute the water is our major concern. Along with GW/GC and earthquakes.

stever

I think it's pretty dumb. Big expensive capital project and it costs more to pump the water uphill than they make dumping it through the generators and selling the power.

Been a whole lot cheaper just to sign people and industries up for voluntary downtime during heat waves like a lot of other places do. Instead they tore up one of my Jeeping areas, just to give the TVA engineers something to do (they've already dammed up every little stream in the whole region and they get might bored not having some dirt moving project moving through the agency).

gagrice

Too funny. Some people would scream if you stabbed them with a golden knife. :shades:

The guy I worked with from TN liked the lakes for fishing. Or is that one only used as water storage? Of course most of the eco nuts would blow up all the dams. And there is some logic in that as well. Not sure how we would feed the nation without water being stored for raising crops. You guys in the Midwest have wasted all the aquifer water raising corn for ethanol. Now corn is so expensive no one wants to raise chickens. Which means a hot wings shortage for Super Bowl. I blame Al Gore and the GW Cult for every problem we have today. :P

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0124/Super-Bowl-crisis-- Chicken-wings-shortage-looms

stever

Raccoon Mountain is all fenced off; since 9/11 they don't even do tours any more. Wikipedia says it's shut down for two years due to cracks in the generators' rotors. So not only are the cap costs high, the maintenance is high too. Tidester would have liked this story about pumped storage: Do the Math (UCSD)

gagrice

So what is the solution to our need or want of electricity 24/7? Nothing is close to perfect. It looks like CA is settling on Natural Gas to take up the slack when Wind and sun fails us. A link off your story reminded me of just how much we do depend on our electric utility functioning all the time. We were on vacation during this incident.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/09/power-out-people-out/

stever

Good link, thanks, lost another hour reading his stuff. Now you have me wondering about the batteries my off-grid friends in NM rely on. Battery storage sure is stuck in a rut (the Dreamliner lithium-ion batteries aren't lending confidence to the tech).

I think it starts with conservation and relies on a lot of different tech. There's no free lunch.

The car companies are plowing ahead; there was a Peugot hybrid ICE-air car in the news the other day and BMW-Toyota are working together on composites, fuel-cells and lithium-air batteries. All the automakers are looking at ways to work together like this to spread the costs.

gagrice

There's no free lunch.

That is what I try to tell people like Rocky, that think the Green Agenda will solve all our energy problems.

So the Boeing 787 has battery problems??? Has Toyota started selling the Plugin Hybrid? I think the Nissan battery issues will be something common with Lithium batteries.

stever

So the Boeing 787 has battery problems???

You might say that. FAA grounds Boeing 787s to address battery fires (Yahoo)

It's even a car related story since Alan Mulally oversaw conception and early development of the Dreamliner when he was a Boeing VP.

gagrice

He probably left when they decided to use fire prone batteries. :shades:

Lithium batteries have more negatives than positives from where I stand. Obviously they are a financial loser. A123 has gone bankrupt more than once. We have wasted at least $249 million on that company alone. Now the Chinese own it. That means the Koreans will likely lose the Chevy Volt batteries to the Chinese.

gagrice

Not a real good advertisement for mass transit. We have several bankrupt cities. Will they lose their bus service as well?

NAPLES, Italy (AP) — Bus service in the southern Italian city of Naples has ground to a halt after the city transport company ran out of money for fuel.


http://www.myfoxny.com/story/20811292/bus-service-grinds-to-halt-in-naples-no-fu- el

alltorque

Much as I love Italy, Naples is the one city that really needs to be taken down and left down. It appears to be a complete mess in all areas of public services.

Beautiful city in a superb location but a poster child for how not to do it. This story is only surprising in that it has taken so long to happen. That, of course, presumes it is true and not just the latest round of brinkmanship by one vested interest or another.

Would I drive in Naples ? Only in a main battle tank. "What do you call a car in Naples without any dents ? Brand new, for sale".

Ciao.

scwmcan

I thought the cars being beat up was true for most of Italy, when I was there they seemed to be pretty crazy drivers.

fintail

Maybe Vesuvius can help with that again :shades:

A lot of Italy seems to barely be first world, not surprising there are financial shenanigans.

stever

I think it's mostly that the Mafia controls Naples.

gagrice

“‘What did Spain do with its European money, its cheap debt?’ [economist Cesar] Molinas said. “We made empty buildings and airports and high-speed trains.’ (As the Madrid banker told me, ‘The cost embedded in taking someone by high-speed rail to Galicia is so high that it would be cheaper just to give people in Galicia a free plane ticket.’)”

http://www.calwatchdog.com/2013/03/03/38639/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=f- acebook

gagrice

Great Recession short-circuits CARB’s Cap and Trade auction

March 5, 2013

By Wayne Lusvardi

Recessions are painful, especially for those who lost their jobs. But there is one upside to less economic activity: lower levels of pollution.

Ironically, the Great Recession short-circuited the California Air Resources Board’s auctions for pollution permits under its new Cap and Trade program.

The California Air Resources Board scheduled a supplementary auction of pollution permits for March 2013. But no industries or electric utilities filed the required “intent to bid” notice by the bid guarantee deadline of Feb. 27.

That meant no private industries or public utilities exceeded their government-set pollution maximums and needed to “buy” extra pollution permits after CARB’s Feb. 19 Cap and Trade auction. Most industries seem to be buying pollution permits rather than installing more pollution reduction technologies, which had been a major goal of AB 32.

http://www.calwatchdog.com/2013/03/05/great-recession-short-circuits-carbs-cap-a- nd-trade-auction/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

Cheaper to pollute and buy permits... Guess who captured the bulk of the permits. Another grand scheme shot down by the lousy economy.

gagrice

In the case of CA High speed rail you hire a CFO with experience.

“Here’s a quick quiz: What two state agencies have a long history of providing misleading and deceptive accounts of their tangled, troubled finances to the public and the Legislature? A history of depicting legitimate criticism as being ideologically driven and mendacious? A history of resisting reform and fighting to maintain a wrongheaded status quo? A history of refusing to acknowledge past fiascoes?

“If you said the California Public Employees’ Retirement System and the California High-Speed Rail Authority, pat yourself on the back. Given their poor records, if these agencies were looking for executive talent, one would assume they’d bring in an outsider with a strong history of oversight and independence – someone willing to stand up to the bureaucratic forces of inertia.

“But then that’s what the agencies would do if they were honest about their records. Instead, inexplicably, both the pension giant and bullet-train shepherd think they’re doing a great job. And so it was no surprise to learn this week that the rail authority has hired CALPERS’ acting chief financial officer, Russell Fong, as its CFO. How tidy.

“Expect the same management culture to continue at both agencies. Arrogance and denial: It’s the CalPERS/CHSRA way.”

http://www.calwatchdog.com/2013/03/06/train-agency-raids-calpers-for-exec-talent- -oy-vey/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

stever

"Ten states currently require manufacturers to sell a progressively larger number of advanced technology vehicles between now and 2025," said Wehrman. "Together, manufacturers have to place five million of these vehicles — battery electric, plug-in hybrid electric and fuel cell electric vehicles — on the road by 2025.

"At the moment, however, the infrastructure simply does not exist to support these vehicles."

Infrastructure concerns are "out of our hands," he noted, adding "government help is needed."

Alt-Fuel Vehicle Infrastructure Is Stumbling Block, Honda Tells Lawmakers

gagrice

Government pushed the same crap more than 20 years ago. I don't think we are that much closer to their goals. The laws of physics are still the obstacle to over come.

The auto industry has long objected to California's zero-emission rules, which mandate that 2% of all vehicles sold in the state in 1998 be powered by electricity. The requirement increases to 5% in 2001 and 10% in 2003.

The meeting with Wilson was set up by Robert M. Teeter, campaign chairman for President George Bush in the 1992 election and a Ford consultant on consumer issues. Both economic issues and auto industry problems were discussed.

The car makers are particularly rankled at the technology mandate--and the deadlines. They would like to use a variety of technologies--including natural gas-powered cars and hybrid vehicles that use both electric and internal-combustion engines--to meet the state's strict clean-air goals. But the zero-emission requirement can only be met today by electricity.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-10-23/news/mn-48862_1_affordable-electric-car