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Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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Comments

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    In defense of the fat cats, they don't just subsidize the poor. They keep most of it for themselves.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Just set it out on the curb and put a "free" sign on it. It will be gone overnight.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    LOL, good one !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 582
    We have to pay for what we get. If we squall for better atmosphere, then utilities costs and charges must go up. We have to keep those consequences in mind all the time.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2012
    Not necessarily. Natural gas being the current example of an electric power generation fuel that's cleaner at the power plant and cheaper to buy than, say, coal.

    People never plug the other costs into the equation, like waste storage or tailings removal or health problems caused by burning the fuel.

    Then there are the unintended consequences that are always fun. (NPR)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    CA has a good percentage of electricity coming from NG. Our prices are about the highest in the Nation. The state mandate of 20% renewable energy is costing us a lot. Delays with wind and solar installations. We have very little coal power in CA. The states with coal do have the cheapest electricity. If we continue to find more NG that will save our bacon. Gas powered generators are about the cheapest to build. Overall cost is still slightly higher than coal. Initial cost of nuclear is high, but it is still the cheapest source of electricity. Wind costs about double coal. Solar is close to 5 times the cost of coal. So NG is probably the best source overall. As long as the supply lasts and the price is stable.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2012
    California is barely in the top ten as of January 23, 2012. :)

    Idaho was cheap; lots of hydro there.

    Annual Average Electricity Price Comparison by State (neo.ne.gov)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Your chart is whacked. They give the bottom tier price for electricity. I am extremely frugal. My bills last year averaged $92 a month. I rarely get to tier 3 where the price is 34 cents a KWH. My neighbor about fell over when we were talking about solar. His bill averages $400 a month and his house is only 2500 sq ft mine is 3000. I have not turned on the AC this year except when I had them serviced. His wife has to have it at 72 degrees in the summer. We don't turn on the AC unless it goes over 80 degrees in the house. Last month was my smallest bill of $75. I used 474 KWH, barely into the tier 2. No heat or AC all month. Fortunately we are going into global cooling and we are far below average for this time of year. It has cooled off after a scorching high of 85 degrees today. About 63 degrees and all the windows open to cool down the house.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The state of Nebraska made the chart - it's an average. Take it up with Governor Heineman. :-)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Just set it out on the curb and put a "free" sign on it. It will be gone overnight.

    Or, I can put a sign on it that says $10 and it will be gone in minutes. :)

    We live in a neighborhood at the "end" of the city and it's very isolated and there's no through-way in it that would cause people to drive through unless they live here. We had a never-used, still in box bathroom sink/countertop and put it out there for 2 days and no one took it. I watched when the trash truck came, and the guy did at least put it in the cab instead of the cruncher.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    My power bill averages about $25/month, and in the summer I will run the AC whenever I feel like it (haven't ran it yet this year as this "warming" specter has decided to skip the PNW). Ah, living in a shoebox isn't all bad :shades:
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    Yeah, right....men in black robes "get it", just like justice Roberts, eh?

    Reminds me of the magistrate scene(s) of British movie satires like, "Oh Lucky Man" from the 70's.

    My opinion is GL, CC or whatever it's fashionable to label it next, is merely a component of the greater (and actually greatest) evil which is Agenda 21.

    The more people that investigate the tentacles of A21 will have a "light bulb" (sorry, couldn't help myself) go off in their heads... :D

    And, no it is not partisan; rather it crosses all political affiliations:

    http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2012
    Even Exxon's CEO admits that "burning of fossil fuels is warming the planet."

    We're just in the stage now where we're trying to figure if there's anything we can do about it and what it'll cost if we do (or if we can afford not to do anything).

    Exxon CEO downplays climate, energy fears (azcentral.com)

    No need to go searching for boogie-men when there's one already on the block.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I can see signs of what your piece is saying here and in Anchorage Alaska. We have infrastructure that is falling apart, the government is busy building HUD apartment complexes everywhere around town. That was one reason we sold our 5 acres and nice home in town and moved 13 miles further out to an established area with minimum 1 acre zoning. They were building Condos all around us. When the housing bubble peaked condos were selling for $400k plus. Now you can buy the 5 year old foreclosed ones in the low $100ks. My buddy that should have moved out of Alaska 10 years ago is being taxed to death on his place. He borders earthquake condemned land by the water. Someone found a way to put that land back into use. And built a road with all the amenities to a new subdivision along side and on the water side of his property. They assessed the improvements on his home that has been there since the 1950s. After a long legal battle he is faced with $300k in assessments that will not make his home worth a penny more. Actually about $300k less. He is trying to sell and get out of Alaska and their 2020 comprehensive development plan. Be prepared it is probably coming to a place near you. Unless you live so far off the map, no one gives a rip. Like the UP of Michigan. That was probably a very smart move.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2012
    Sure, no drought or fire danger around here. :P

    8% of state in moderate drought as dry June follows record spring temperatures (Detroit News)

    (The recent Duck Lake fire in the eastern Upper Peninsula was 21,069 acres!)

    Heh, just looked at Drudge. Nice photo accompanying that "118° in Kansas" screamer headline.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Time to outlaw wasting precious water on golf courses. That water can be more wisely used to grow vegetables and fruit. Time to lower our lifestyle to meet our Agenda 21 obligations. :shades:

    Or are we headed for a full blown depression complete with a Dustbowl drought in the heartland? 1934 was a hot dry one I believe.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Time to outlaw wasting precious water on golf courses.

    Put solar panels on all the greens. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think this statement by the Exxon CEO says it all:

    Tillerson, speaking to the Council on Foreign Relations, blamed a public that is "illiterate" in science and math, a "lazy" press, and advocacy groups that "manufacture fear" for energy misconceptions.


    He seems to have a good handle on our energy situation.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited June 2012
    I'm surprised at the lack of curbside recycling in metro/suburban areas.

    I'm 16 miles NW of Boston. 2 years ago our town made changes to our existing recycling/trash collection.

    Each home was issued a 65 gallon trash "toter" which is picked up every week by a single person truck. If the trash isn't in the toter, you have to pay for special orange bags so the driver knows to get out of the truck to pick it up. We changed our recycling from alternate weeks of paper and plastic to full pickup every week. The plan is to go to single stream recycling in the next year.

    For our family of four, I put out perhaps a 1/4 full toter, a standard trash barrel for paper and a small bin for plastic and glass every week. Keep in mind, MA has returnable bottles and cans so very little goes curbside.

    Our town picks up white goods as well as CRT's and TV's. Yard waste is picked up every weekend in the spring and fall and once a month during the summer. Twice a year we have a hazardous waste day. All of this is done at no charge.

    Going to the toter saved the town $200K the first year in trash removal costs and making recycling easier eliminated $70K in tipping fees and earned the town $60K in income from the sale of the recycled material.
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    I have no problem with your golf course statement regarding watering.

    But, you gotta be kidding us, right, with this "Agenda 21 "OBLIGATIONS? " statement?? WTF are you talking about. We have no "obligations".

    If you're actually serious, please move to FrogLand or anywhere else in Europe. You're FREE {get it?} to lower YOUR lifestyle all you want, but don't tell me (or anyone else for that matter) to do the same.

    Also, and perhaps more appropriately, educate yourself about the insidious threat A21 poses to all of us. Use the link I supplied in my previous post. I must ask do you know what Liberty and self determination is? Do you believe in them?

    I can't tell if you were trying to be facetious, with the "cool" Emotorcons you inserted at the end of your first paragraph, since there is no "roll eyes/sarcastic" one to choose. If so, please ignore the above and accept my heartfelt apology. But you've hit a nerve here.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited June 2012
    I was being sarcastic about the agenda 21 ideas. I can see many things that make me nervous about the direction this country is headed. I am one of the anti-UN & WTO group. In my opinion the AGW cult would like to herd US all into caves to save the fossil fuel for their Limos & McMansions.

    Trust me we are on the same side. I just am not a fan of the game of golf, and see the water shortages as a serious problem in many places around the USA.
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    Okay, thanks for clarifying!! I've been studying the subject for a couple of years now and can't believe what the "vision" for regular folks is! Stack and pack, no cars rather bicycle to work, for the most part no rural areas as we currently know them, no family farms, and on and on. Truly evil and when you get right down to it, rather 3rd world.

    Hey forum hosts, can we get a couple of new Emotorcons e.g. rolleyes, laughing out lout, funnypost, chill pill, eek, +1. j/k, etc. etc.

    Thanks!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Speaking of Bicycles. A friend's son was killed today in a bike race up in Fresno. Coming down a long grade, went off a 10 ft embankment and hit a tree. My friend is devastated. I see bike riders a lot as we live a a major bike route. I like riding bikes. I just don't like riding on the streets.

    I think the plan is giant farms with migrant workers. bused to work living in government housing. Warehousing votes is the term I think best describes the plan.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    edited July 2012
    Even if Obama is re-elected I don't believe he could ever get congress to ratify A21...but that would not stop him...he and the EPA would simply decree that it was in effect.

    The only Americans who I could possibly imagine being for A21 are those who are already very low on the totem pole. Because they are failures, they want to drag everyone else down to their level.

    The U.S. is the most successful country in the history of the world. The rest of the world should be emulating us, not trying to drag us down to their level.

    Hopefully, people in the U.S. and the rest of the world will continue to get just what they work for and deserve, nothing more, nothing less.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    Well, all I can say, given the UNCONSTITUTIONAL power of the EPA (& the UN which really pulls the strings and sets the table. See the recently adjourned RIO + 20 conference}, if I were a CEO of any oil company, I'd say the same thing! You wanna know why? It's to keep the EPA's jack booted thugs (read: Lawyers) away from my doorstep. Oil companies are an easy target. It's called good PR.

    Though I do applaud him for getting his blows in anyway with statements e.g.: manufactured fear by advocacy groups, lazy press, an illiterate public as far as math and science goes, et cetera.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    Funny, you can put it in CAPS and call them libtards, but the Supremes have taken on cases about the EPA and have yet to call the law or the agency unconstitutional.

    For example, Supreme Court: CO2 a pollutant (Marketplace). They said the EPA had the right to regulate greenhouse gases.

    There's another one in the last year or two where the EPA's right to regulate coal-fired power plants (not the states) was upheld. I'm sure there's plenty of others where EPA's powers to regulate were upheld. And guess what they are basing their regs on - yep, laws passed by Congress, like the Clean Air Act. Good luck trying to repeal that. You may as well try to outlaw apple pie, motherhood and Chevrolet. Lots of us like breathing clean air and drinking clean water.

    I think Exxon has plenty of legal talent available to them btw. :)
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    It (almost )doesn't matter if you're "for" or "against" A21, though thanks to people like Alex Jones and Ms. Koire, people are getting the real scoop. Why? Because this UN implemented and funded program, does an end run around national sovereignty by going to the local level via ICLEI & NGO's, influencing land use designations through Boards of Supervisors or city/community councils, Hegelian tactics, and using Delphi techniques to get their way.

    Here's a little primer by Richard Rothschild, a 2011 Maryland regular guy who got pissed about it, exposed it, got elected (along with others) and defunded ICLEI in his county.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqgdWcKLlk

    He has a longer interview you can find on the web wherein he tells the host how he got involved. It's very informative and a must watch.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    If liking clean air and clean water makes me a A21er, tell John Birch to move over, because I'm joining him, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, and all the other boogiemen under your bed. :P

    Enjoy your 4th! Maybe I'll take a drive down Ron Paul's Interstate 35. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I did not hear anything said in that piece about doing away with our clean air and water regulations. That sounds like a boogie man argument. :P

    The reality of the UN stealing our sovereignty is the issue. As many have said here we have cleaner air than much of Europe, so why do we listen to them on environmental issues? It is about losing our standard of living to satisfy the Limousine Liberals that want to rule the World from their Villas.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    In a world with 7 billion people, I just don't have much patience with the idea of a bunch of old guys smoking cigars in a penthouse boardroom pulling all the strings. Even Richard J. Daley got thrown out of the '72 Democratic convention by McGovern and he was the prototypical string puller.

    I don't know what you mean by "listening" to the Europeans. We're a big melting pot and have been stealing good (and bad) ideas from the rest of the world for 236 years now (and yeah, had to do the math).

    Our problem now is having elected officials that, unlike Nixon and the EPA formation days, won't work together on the issues.
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    The Supreme Court is not GOD. They are fallible and imperfect.

    Carbon Dioxide a pollutant?!? It is the plant world's oxygen. Decreeing it so is absurd and if it weren't so tragic would be comical.

    It's "rulings" like those that are an example of a de jure government replaced by a de facto one.

    Don't misunderstand me. I don't want dirty air and water either.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    Didn't like that Dred Scott decision eh?

    If you don't want dirty air and water, someone is going to have to regulate how we keep it clean. You can trust Exxon or you can trust the United Nations or you can trust the EPA. Or we can go back to the old days where individuals had to sue the polluters and hope the judge didn't play golf with the chemical company owners.

    The EPA seems the lesser of the evils.

    Erin Brockovich seems to have plenty of work though.

    Oh, back to CO2, "The EPA's finding doesn't say carbon dioxide, or CO2, is by itself a pollutant -- it is, after all, a gas that humans exhale and plants inhale. Rather, it is the increasing concentrations of the gas that concern the agency."

    How Carbon Dioxide Became a 'Pollutant' (WSJ)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There is a good chance the EPA will lose its power over CO2, by the fact they are not proving it is hazardous...

    In a narrow 5-4 decision in 2007, the US Supreme Court authorized the EPA to consider the greenhouse gas CO2 as a 'pollutant' under the terms of the Clean Air Act -- provided EPA could demonstrate that CO2 posed a threat to human health and welfare.

    As my CEI colleague Marlo Lewis relates, the EPA's Inspector General (IG) released a report in September 2011, finding that EPA did not meet applicable federal Information (or Data) Quality Act (IQA) standards when developing the TSD. The IG argued that the TSD is a "highly influential scientific assessment," and therefore should have been subjected to the most rigorous form of peer review. EPA fell short of the mark by not publishing the comments of the agency's 12-member peer-review panel, and by placing an EPA employee on the panel, compromising its independence.

    After all of the responses and briefs are filed, the Court may issue a decision around mid-2012.


    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/epas_co2_endangerment_finding_is_endanger- ed.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    You don't need to have patience for something to have at least a shadow of reality. The more things change, the more a few continue to consolidate power and gold. I have never understood why liberal minded boomer era types are the ones who seem to most vehemently object to any idea that everything isn't raw coincidence.

    Speaking of warming...what's that? Another cool day here.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    In other words, the system of checks and balances, even within one branch of government, may actually work? Cool. :-)

    Do we need any GW links to carry us through the holiday?

    Colorado wildfires are 'what global warming really looks like' (csmonitor.com)

    Melting permafrost causing rockslides, endangering town (softpedia.com)

    In Norfolk, Va. the sea level has jumped a total of 4.8 inches since 1990 (cleveland.com)

    Death Valley heat in Kansas (csmonitor.com)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We have had absolutely gorgeous weather. Averaging 6-10 degrees below normal. No AC needed here. I think it is because my gas hog Sequoia stays parked in the garage most of the time.
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    edited July 2012
    I stand by my statement that the EPA is unconstitutional. Show me where in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution Congress is authorized to legislate in the area of the environment.

    Now, the states could under their enumerated powers.

    Once again, do not misunderstand. I think there should be clean air and water and the like. Just leave it up to each state to set it up and implement it in their jurisdiction.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If the EPA was unconstitutional, the Supremes would have said so back in the 60s when the first suits trickled their way up through the appeals process. The Commerce Clause will cover just about anything and Abe Lincoln killed off the idea of "states rights".

    Let me know when you figure out how to keep Los Angeles smog from drifting from their jurisdiction into Nevada. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think the constitution has been pushed beyond what was intended by far more than the EPA. The Dept of Ed, Health and Human services, DOJ and DHS for sure are in direct violation of the 2nd and 4th amendments. I think the USA is close to melt down. And this silly AGW is no small part. I think the EPA has been very selective in what pollution they target. They many times take the easy way out. I can see an argument for their existence, when it comes to air and water pollution. Though they have allowed the Mega Ag industry to pollute the streams flowing into the gulf to satisfy their crazy ethanol mandate. They have been very lax on emissions from cargo ships coming into our ports. That particulate matter still drifts in from the ports of Los Angeles and settles up against the San Bernardino Mts. Makes that area uninhabitable in my book. I can't breathe when I travel to that area to visit family. The EPA is owned by the oligarchy that controls our Federal government.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    I think the USA is close to melt down.

    Citizens have been saying that since the Aaron Burr days and we keep muddling along just fine. What melting down may be occurring is due to the record heat wave. (Voice of America)

    I don't think the Constitution was written to be a static document. It's too general for that - it lays down broad principles and leaves it to the courts and the Congress to accommodate changing times.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Bring on the Wind Power !!

    http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/us-approves-wind-power-for-1-- million-homes/17246?tag=nl.e660

    A headwind of renewable power is approaching. The U.S. Interior Department has completed an environmental review for a massive wind farm that has the potential to power up to 1 million homes and cleared the way for more offshore development.

    Yesterday, the government announced that environmental reviews had been completed for Wyoming’s Chokecherry and Sierra Madre Wind Farm, which could become the U.S’s largest project with up to 1,000 turbines.

    “When it comes to wind energy, we’re making significant progress both onshore and offshore to diversify our nation’s domestic energy portfolio and stand up a clean energy economy,” Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar said.

    The farms would produce 3,000-megawatts and be managed by Power Company of Wyoming, and will be built at an estimated cost of US$4B-$6B. Half of the turbines will be located on public lands. The utility has forecast a regional economic benefit.

    Assessments were also completed for the Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) offshore Rhode Island and Massachusetts. The ability to develop on the OCS, combined with cheaper turbines, could lead to a boom for the wind industry.

    “Today, as we take the next steps toward realizing what could be the largest wind energy project in the world and holding a competitive offshore wind lease sale, we are really at the forefront of a renewable energy revolution,” Salazar added.
  • monkstermanmonksterman Member Posts: 46
    Forgot to mention:

    Did you forget (or not know in the first place) they are still "nation states" as when the original 13 began? :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    And Texas supposedly kept the "right" to secede when they joined the union. And every time Rick Perry or other Texan threatens to leave (again), everyone says "be our guest". And they shut right up. :-)

    Got any global warming news (hopefully related to automobiles)?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Been way below normal for most of the past couple months, here. Haven't used AC once. Maybe the stuff on the east coast is being caused by a guy in my building who bought a project car offroad-warrior style 80s Toyota truck - which from the smell has zero emissions equipment and is running very rich. Warming?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    We had a dead mini-fridge and it took us 6 months to find a facility around here that would take it (for a $10 fee), and it was 30 miles away. Good luck finding somewhere to take them.

    Had a couple of dead dehumidifiers a couple of years ago. Garbage pickup company would not take under any circumstance nor dollar pickup fee. Called around and found a metal salvage facility, "junkyard", that accepted these. Drove these in with my van, unloaded to a huge pile of scrap as they directed me. No charge.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My wife wondered what people with electric vehicles are doing with no power back East. I don't think you can blame the severe storm on global warming. It was the result of unusually cold air coming from the North meeting with unusually warm air in the South. The perfect storm. Maybe extreme hot dry weather is caused by depressions. We are in a similar depression to the one in the 1930s. Shaping up to be another dustbowl summer.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "My wife wondered what people with electric vehicles are doing with no power back East. "

    Gary, I doubt that very many people have an electric car as their "only" ride.

    And if they do, I guess they just do whatever they would do if they had a "fossil fuel powered" vehicle which is out of service - public transportation, bum rides from friend and family, rent a car, etc.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Well, I hope it works, but so far no one has been able to make a go of it without taxpayer money. Based on past performance I don't give them much chance.

    Wind and solar just have not panned out. If we are going to continue spending taxpayer dollars we need to find something new that does work.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Our problem now is having elected officials that, unlike Nixon and the EPA formation days, won't work together on the issues.


    Or the people appointed and blessed by elected officials. Such as a Cabinet Member of our current Administration that wanted to put his boot on the neck of BP rather than working with them. Or another high level EPA person, appointed by the Administration, that told his people to CRUCIFY companies, especially oil companies.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Solar has "panned out" just fine for my house. Saves me somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 per year.

    There are a lot of solar and wind success stories.

    Ans as far as "taxpayer dollars," worry about that when oil subsidies and the associated tax breaks are ended.

    We taxpayers give FAR more money away to Big Oil than we do to Green Solar or Green Wind.
This discussion has been closed.