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Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?
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Here's a plant for you Gary:
Global Warming Mums (MSNBC)
On the warming note, the near record low max combined with record-shattering rain we had here yesterday makes me want a little warming.
They are also supposed to keep aphids away from your roses. We have found they attract more than they repel.
All plants are good for absorbing CO2, so plant more flowers until we are into another Ice Age.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
So we can recycle all the same complaints!! Now that's green!!
Gagrice is right, even if MMGW is significant. MMGW and Green industries are "tools" for larger purposes. So that is why many say - "Nah, we don't need time to do the science and get some decent models of the climate. Let's just use the potential issue to pass a lot of regulations to change the economics as we want, and throw in some new bureaucracies, and hit the poor and middle classes with some hidden costs (carbon credits).
The ecological problems that this planet has is coming directly from growth. Population growth and demand for resources. It doesn't matter what sort of technologies we deploy - wind or solar ... With uncontrolled growth - a billion people added each decade to feed and provide power to, not counting all those who need now, there is no solution. The best Green movement would be "No Growth". Maybe the Greek and French elections today, might be our a good start at further depressing the global economy, and the willingness of some to have too many babies.
"Dr Lovelock, one of the world's leading environmental thinkers once warned climate change would reduce mankind to a few breeding pairs in the Arctic.
Today Dr Lovelock implied that he had over-stated the certainty of catastrophe at the time.
He told BBC Today Programme in 2010 the idea of trying to save the planet "is a lot of nonsense".
"We can't do it," he said at the time. "If it's going to be saved it will save itself...The sensible thing to do is to enjoy life while you can."
Gaia creator rows back on climate (BBC)
"And the temperatures really zoomed. There were crocodiles in the Arctic. God knows what the rest of the Earth was like. But in a hundred million years it sank back to normal."
He is assuming there is a Normal temperature for the Earth. I don't buy it. It is constantly changing and whoever or whatever is on it either survives of dies. I do agree the sensible thing is to enjoy life without making too big of an impact like dropping nuclear weapons.
I won't if you won't.
I feel like I do my best to live with a reasonable balance of responsibility and enjoyment, and that's the best we can do. I find it a bit ridiculous for some of the climate change scaremongers to talk about the potential for the whole ecosystem to collapse due to the possibility of one or several species' extinction. While it is not responsible to engage in behavior that directly leads to the extinction of a species (e.g., over-hunting endangered animals), there are numerous species that have become extinct, and the earth continues to exist.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Well, my take on the "extinction" issue is that every species of everything is important.
Because one of them might hold the key to curing AIDS, cancer, MS, etc etc.
We don't know, so protecting them is important to ALL humanity.
The average person's activities has no appreciable effect on the climate. If governments started dropping nuclear bombs all over the planet you might see some effect.
The time will surely come when Man is no longer able to survive here on earth, but it won't be because we all did not buy a Prius or install solar panels.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
That's an unfortunate attitude.
It takes a lot of drops in the bucket to fill a bucket.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
It takes small contributions to make a big difference.
And this particular bucket will never fill because it has a big hole in it.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
(Reuters) - The United States hit Chinese solar companies with punitive import tariffs of 30 percent or more on Thursday, ruling they had dumped cut-price solar panels into the U.S. market.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/17/us-china-trade-idUSBRE84G19U20120517
In the push to develop new forms of sustainable energy, the wind power industry is at the forefront. Turbines that harness the power of wind already serve as effective power sources across the globe, and this proven effectiveness has led to vast increases in the number of turbines currently under construction. The general impact of wind turbines on the environment is likely far less than that of conventional power sources. However, recent evidence shows that certain species of bats are particularly susceptible to mortality from wind turbines. Bats are beneficial consumers of harmful insect pests, and migratory species of bats cross international and interstate boundaries.
Dead bats are turning up beneath wind turbines all over the world. Bat fatalities have now been documented at nearly every wind facility in North America where adequate surveys for bats have been conducted, and several of these sites are estimated to cause the deaths of thousands of bats per year. This unanticipated and unprecedented problem for bats has moved to the forefront of conservation and management efforts directed toward this poorly understood group of mammals. The mystery of why bats die at turbine sites remains unsolved. Is it a simple case of flying in the wrong place at the wrong time? Are bats attracted to the spinning turbine blades? Why are so many bats colliding with turbines compared to their infrequent crashes with other tall, human-made structures?
http://www.mesc.usgs.gov/BatsWindmills/
The implications were extraordinary.
Lovelock is a world-renowned scientist and environmentalist whose Gaia theory — that the Earth operates as a single, living organism — has had a profound impact on the development of global warming theory.
Unlike many “environmentalists,” who have degrees in political science, Lovelock, until his recent retirement at age 92, was a much-honoured working scientist and academic.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/22/green-drivel
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Are you questioning the scientists credentials?
Or are you drinking the Al Gore Koolaid?
Just remarking that the Toronto Sun is a conservative newspaper, so to take that into consideration.
Fox News only attempts to balance out the lefty-ness of the other mainstream media outlets, but in the process goes too far.
As for anyone's opinion on anything related to GW - no opinions melted that arctic ice.
No opinions have been included in the warming trend we have noticed since basically the 70s.
So, is it possible that people are being "alarmist" about things? Of course. But maybe they need to be to get people's attention.
P.S. I dismissed AlGore and his bullcrap years ago.
Now, as a "tactic" it is indeed a little underhanded, but it's based on true events.
There are "real" reasons to think man has made impacts in the climate. It's called "common sense" if nothing else. 7+ billion people can't be on Earf and not make an impact in many, many, many areas.
Why does Phoenix have a brown cloud? We didn't 75 years years ago. HHHMMMM, I wonder what changed? Maybe adding millions of people and the associated pollution to that had an impact?
This debate cannot be resolved....it will be here my entire remaining life and I'm sure that of my children too.
The reason is that both sides have solid arguments.
That is the lie. Polar bears have never been more plentiful in the last 100 years. Man killing them has caused more loss than GW. You are listening to paid AGW scientists again.
"The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that the polar bear population is currently at 20,000 to 25,000 bears, up from as low as 5,000-10,000 bears in the 1950s and 1960s. A 2002 U.S. Geological Survey of wildlife in the Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain noted that the polar bear populations 'may now be near historic highs,'" it read.
It is a real news story, but if the Toronto Sun hadn't reported it, no one would ever know it happened. Fair and balanced.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Sounds like he has distanced himself from the extremists and crackpots and is in lockstep with the majority of the scientific community now. And really, the crackpots are the only ones arguing about it anymore, the Al Gores versus the Rush Limbaughs. The scientific community has moved past the silly arguments.
However, for whatever reason, some here felt compelled to point out that in their opinion, it was reported in a conservative publication. Now that is something right out of Al Gore's playbook.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/as_arctic_sea_ice_declines_polar_bear_patrol_gets_b- usy/2497/
http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/viewArticle.do?id=35187
http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/witnessing-summer-starvation-among-po- lar-bears-pics.html
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2012/01/10/plight-of-the-ice-bear/
When the ice pack is smaller, the bears have less and less feeding grounds and tougher access to seals.
Oppose "alarmists" all you want - it's a free country.
But don't dismiss facts that oppose your case just to try to improve said case.
Sure, the "GW types" use this fact to tug at our hearts strings - I mean who doesn't love a baby polar bear, regardless of your politics?
But using it to tug at our heart strings does not make it a lie.
I'm ready for you to go ahead and just admit you are wrong on this one, Gary. It's the right thing to do, and we can move on.
"Conservative" outlets jump on anything anti-GW.
"Liberal" outlets jump on anything pro-GW.
It's just how it works now.
And it's sad. Melting ice doesn't have a political philosophy.
since research has shown that all modern polar bears today may well be descended from interbreeding with a now-extinct brown bear species found in Ireland about 20,000 years ago.
But it does not help the "spirit of debate" for anyone on either side to dismiss a fact as "propaganda."
I don't "want GW to be put onto man" at all. You know my stance, which I will repeat here for the uninitiated:
There are not enough facts that conclude conclusively that man HAS NOT contributed to the warming trend. Until that happens, we should hedge our bet by polluting less, recycling more, and in general, be better denizens of Planet Earf.
I've yet to see a valid argument that defeats that logic.
The valid argument is the opposite of yours:
There are not enough facts that conclude conclusively that man HAS contributed to the warming trend.
Until that happens we should not try to steal money from people to push a flawed agenda.
Speaking of recycle. I had a bag full of old AA batteries(30-40 of them). I took them to the local Albertson's Recycle center. He was not interested because they do not pay him for them. He suggested I take them to a place in San Diego that handles such things. That is 35 miles each way. Recycling, what a joke. I dropped them in his waste basket and walked off. I think he knew better than to try and stop me.
PS
about 6 months ago I took him a bunch of wine bottles. He did not want them either. So they go in the dumpster with the trash.
Them's fightin' words, mister !! PUT 'EM UP !!!!
No, but seriously, like everything else, there are exceptions to rules. You just happen to mention one of the rare exceptions in the recycling world.
Let me completely explain how I recycle, so I can show you MY VERSION is DEFINITELY NOT A JOKE.
The City of Phoenix has a recycling system, for which they give each homeowner a blue bin. I have a tan "small" recycle bin inside my kitchen (and another in my garage) and a regular tall stainless steel "trash" can.
Almost EVERYTHING I dispose of goes into the recycle bin. All cans, bottles, plastic bottles, plastic containers, etc. Anything that's not a plastic or cloth BAG goes in there.
Food waste goes down the garbage disposal in the sink.
I put my blue bin on the curb on average about once every 3 weeks.
I put my green "trash" bin out about 3 times a YEAR.
I recycle plastic garbage bags which in some cases I cannot avoid receiving.
I wash and repeatedly re-use Ziploc bags.
I re-use plastic water and soda bottles until they become unusable.
I use large Ikea shopping bags for my groceries, which I bag myself at the stores.
I take burned-out CFLs to Home Depot for recycling.
Nothing about any of that is a "joke" at all, sir.
Does it hurt me one bit? No. Does it make me feel like I'm doing my part and the part of several friends who do NO recycling? Absolutely. And that's a good feeling.
I have you on the garbage, as all goes onto my compost pile to be used in our garden. We rarely ever use the garbage disposal.
We reuse plastic & glass containers and ziplocs, if safe to do so.
Our same Albertson's went to no plastic bags over a year ago, and we take our reusable ones when shopping there. I have a large box in the garage filled with plastic grocery bags. We use them when giving fruit and veggies to friends and family.
Green cuttings mostly go on the compost pile, except poison oak which is bagged and dumped in dumpster.
We have 4 trash services that hit our street every week. Only the one I see on Wednesday has the blue recycle bins. I watched as they dumped the blue one then the grey one into the same front loader and over the top into the truck. Recycling for the most part is a joke. Go fight with someone that does not know better. If you drive a mile out of your way to recycle you are probably causing more damage to the environment, than the person that dumps it all in the trash.
When was the last time you took CFLs to Home Depot? I took two 4ft tubes and 3 Burnt out CFLs and they tried to sell me special recycle containers. $35 for CFL and $107 for the tubes. I am not saying what happened to them and subsequent burnouts.
Recycling is a BIG FAT JOKE.... on you.
http://www.lamprecycling.com/store/program.aspx?prodcategory=cfls
How many people with a brain are going to pay $35 for a one gallon bucket to put CFL bulbs in for recycle. The negatives of CFLs over ride the positives. Better to have just kept the safe incandescent lights. My guess is 90% of CFL bulbs end up in the land fill. And that is bad.
I was cleaning out my storage and filled a bag full of trash. When I put it in the dumpster there was an old TV in there. California charges $16 for disposal when you buy a TV or Monitor. Then the trash people charge you extra to dispose of it. Recycle is like so many other things where the government is involved. Just a big money grab.
The recycle concept is good. The implementation in most cases is lousy. At least in CA and Hawaii. We looked for a recycle bin for cans and plastic at our condo last time there. People told us the cost to ship out recycle was too much.
And there's the issue. Many places do not offer curbside recycling. I recycled when I lived in St. Louis because they did the same as Phoenix. I do not recycle much here (except glass) because it is made wholly inconvenient for the consumer. The glass recycling bin is located along a route I regularly take, but I don't see much benefit in me driving around for 30 minutes to hit the various privately-owned recycling bins dispersed around the area.
I'm also not sure about the overall environmental benefits of having a giant truck drive around to do recycling pick-up several times a week.
I do the same as you, though, if only out of pure cheapness - I re-use bottles and bags as much as possible. I rarely purchase anything that comes in a plastic bottle to begin with... ziplocs get re-used when possible.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Another issue - why don't some of these dang hazardous waste collection facilities take dead appliances, even if for a fee?? We recently came to understand why people dump stuff on the side of the road. We had a dead mini-fridge and it took us 6 months to find a facility around here that would take it (for a $10 fee), and it was 30 miles away. We have local county collection events held all over the county, and they will take oil, paint, etc., and we always go to those. Anything else? Good luck finding somewhere to take them.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit concluded that the EPA's 2009 finding that greenhouse gases endanger human health and the environment was based on "an ocean of evidence," saying the agency's move to limit those emissions from cars and trucks was "neither arbitrary nor capricious."
One group that didn't join the challenge was automakers, which support the EPA's plans. Major automakers agreed earlier to a single nationwide standard for vehicles. The court's ruling gives the Obama administration a green light to move ahead with standards for later models of vehicles out to 2025.
Federal court panel upholds EPA rules aimed at global warming (miamiherald.com)
One thing is certain. Our utilities will go up dramatically. But the fat cats in control could care less, just steal more from the middle class to subsidize the poor. :sick: