When the answer to the problem is more taxes (carbon credit auctioning with proceeds going to the government/higher electric bill paid by all) and the federal, state and local government dictating how you live (what you can drive, what your heating/AC setpoint will be, what type of lightbulbs you can buy, how big your home can be, etc.)for the greater global good then I wonder if the solution is worse than the theoretical problem.
Don't even get me started on the GW hypocrites like Al Gore who pay carbon offsets to his own "green" companies. I really like the loophole for the elite so they can continue their wasteful habits by purchasing these credits and feel good about their lifestyle.
If cars are causing the problem build more nuclear plants (zero GW gas) and switchover to electric cars/trains for transportation of people or goods. Switch to other electric producing technologies as they become economically viable.
Here is an example of carbon offset spending. This article shows how the DNC is giving a school district carbon offset money for a wind powered electric generator. http://facethestate.com/articles/dnc-boondoggle-carbon-credits-fund-broken-turbi- - ne Guess what the school district is collecting offset money and not producing electricity due to problems with the generator.
"About 25 percent of Fortune 500 companies now have a board committee overseeing the environment"
BP has given grants to study everything under the sun for 30 years or more. I met many scientist in Prudhoe studying ice cores to watching the tundra grass grow. It is best for corporations to work within a set of environmental parameters that does not cause them problems down the road.
The definition: "Third World" country is perhaps an outgrowth of the elistist mindset. Back 40 years ago it was "population control". Lack of correct population control would lead to global cooling aka ice age. India, China, Russia, etc were leading the SLIDE into obilvion. It also gave rise to rational social science study and debate as to the probablility of world wide dieback policy enforcement, state sanctioned/ enforced ethanasia, etc. etc.
There recently was the death of a 98 year old lady named Irena. During WWII Irena got permission to work in the Warsaw Ghetto as a plumbing/sewer specialist. She had an ulterior motive.
Being German, she knew what the [non-permissible content removed]'s had in mind for the Jews. Irena smuggled infants out in the bottom of her toolbox and in the back of her truck she had a large burlap bag for bigger kids.
She also had a dog in the back of her truck that she had trained to bark when they were stopped by [non-permissible content removed] soldiers upon entering and leaving the ghetto.
The soldiers, of course, wanted nothing to do with the dog and the barking helped cover up any noise the kids made. During her time of doing this Irena managed to smuggle out and save over 2500 children.
Eventually she was caught and severely beaten by the [non-permissible content removed]. Both of her arms and both of her legs were broken.
Irena kept a record of the names of all the children she had smuggled out and kept a list of the names buried in a glass jar under a tree in her back yard.
After the war she tried to locate as many of the parents as possible in hopes of reuniting the families, but of course, most of the parents had been gassed. The kids she helped got placed in foster homes or were adopted.
Last year Irena was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize but she lost. The Prize was won by Al Gore for doing a slide show on global warming.
You can verify this story on snopes.com or go to irenasendler.org
Snopes says there's no way to be sure she was nominated for the prize in '07.
Hmmm....Your statement is true but very misleading as all nominations are kept secret for 50 years.That is why I listed the other source. Plus Snopes.com said this was a true story.
I just thought it was an interesting comment on the world we live in and it did concern global warming.
I think it is further proof of the Political nature of Global Warming. I was furious when Al Gore won the Nobel. I thought anyone that screamed fire in a theater belongs in jail, not given an award.
If science were to say that GW was caused by the hot air coming from Washington DC, it would be more believable than my SUV causing it.
I don't blame you for being embarrassed. Did you check the other source? There is a whole section that discusses her nomination.
I hardly think that this woman, who has received so many other awards over the years including personal congratulations from the POPE, would lie about something like this. Is this what you are inferring?
I didn't say I was embarrassed and Snopes is more concise (and usually accurate in my experience). You could nominate me for the prize, but per Snopes you won't know if the nomination actually made it to the committee for consideration.
And I don't think Sendler nominated herself but rather the Polish president (Kaczynski) initiated the proposal.
I realize it's the weekend and all, but let's get back to the topic shall we?
With Al Fore an others telling us to do things for the questionable global warming..., and not doing it himself, now here's NBC air conditioning their OUTDOOR set in Beijing. They showed the little people how to save power last November by cuttin lighting on their football broadcast and went completely dark for the last minutes of the broadcast to save power...
Somehow with air conditioning outdoor sets in Beijing doesn't encourage me to worry about alleged global warming from my auto exhaust.
..."They showed the little people how to save power last November by cuttin lighting on their football broadcast and went completely dark for the last minutes of the broadcast to save power..."...
This is absolutely SOP for at least the majors if not the minors.
If you have ever been to the Dallas Convention Center (Dallas, TX) can you even imagine its' enclosed parking area being air conditioned to 64-68 degrees when it is 95/95 ourside?
I read recently that there will be a shortage of Limos at the Democratic convention this year. I guess they saved so much CO2 production by making all their party hats out of re-cycled toilet paper that they have carbon credits to burn.
In other news Nancy Pelosi is now in favor of off-shore drilling. The polls had nothing to do with it.
And finally, the Easter Bunny has decided to run for president.
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I've got a better idea. Run around screaming "GLOBAL COOLING". Tell people the Polar bears are freezing to death. Predict that homes will be crushed under the advancing glaciers. Warn that beach front property will be worthless as sea levels fall. You don't need any real proof. When people disagree with you, accuse them of being racist republicans in bed with big oil.
Once you get a few drugged-out Hollywood types on board to spread the word you can get rich on government grants "studying" the problem. :shades:
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Gary says, "Record low maximum temperature set in Denver for August 16th. The high temperature at Denver International Airport today was 58 degrees. This 58 degree reading will replace the previous low maximum temperature record for August 16th which was 63 degrees set 118 years ago in 1890."
All that stuff is irrelevant to a global warming discussion.
That's because "regional weather events" have nothing to do with "global climate."
I have said it before but maybe it bears repeating:
"Global Warming does NOT mean that every city, every town, every burb, every country, will have a hotter than normal season every year from now on."
Cold snaps will still happen. Heat waves and drought and floods and tornadoes will still happen. Snow on Easter Day will still happen.
All that has nothing to do with proving or disproving man's potential influence on the GLOBAL climate.
It also needs to be said that the very parameters that the global warming arguements are based on are the very SAME parameters that are in the same breath are denied by the ones making the arguements can be used to indicated that global cooling is part of the same 4 cycle system.
Then there's not much, or not going to be much change. So if there is GW it is so small as not to even worry about.
All that has nothing to do with proving or disproving man's potential influence ...
"Potential"? I thought we were talking about whether there is an "actual" influence. If all you're going to debate about is "potential", we might as well debate whether building windmills will change the air currents. Almost has "potential" to change anything else.
Maybe in a few hundred years man will have the potential power thru advances in technology to change the Earth's climate. Right now we are powerless compared to nature, and are just along for the ride on the surface of this planet.
"Global Warming does NOT mean that every city, every town, every burb, every country, will have a hotter than normal season every year from now on."
So Global Warming only affects part of the globe at any given time? You see there are people that would like it to be a little warmer. Denver, Anchorage and the Northwest Coastal regions. So IF my SUV is a small part in helping my fellow man get a little warmer. I am most happy to oblige. Quite frankly I don't give a d___ if NYC ends up under water. It will give the poor folks in the Burbs beach front property.
we might as well debate whether building windmills will change the air currents.
Some areas are looking to ban Wind Generation. It causes several medical problems for those living near by. Back to the old alternative drawing board. Good thing we got coal to fall back on.
Potential health effects from constant exposure to noise run a wide gamut. At high levels, hearing loss can occur but constant exposure to noise at levels expected from industrial wind turbines would more likely result in anxiety, nervousness and a general lack of a sense of well being, - especially in those who are sensitive. Noise from wind turbines can also affect both the ability to sleep (e.g. not being able to fall asleep or waking during sleep) and sleep patterns (e.g. quality of sleep). A person whose sleep patterns are disrupted may sleep through the night yet not feel rested in the morning. This can pose dangers in the operation of cars and equipment.
The wind backlash does seem to be growing. Meanwhile there's been news of more solar breakthroughs, including capturing infrared light at night. Geek.com.
Seems like it still comes down to storage, whether for your house or your car.
If it's too hot or cold where you live, change locales.
That's what I would do. I like it where heat and AC are needed minimally throughout the year. Not many places that fill the bill. So we have to use energy of some sort to make life enjoyable.
PS You left out ocean temperatures that control at least 80% of the whole Global temperature.
Or don't forget that most everything above 35-degrees latitude receives little sunlight for many winter months, and even the sunlight we do get would not be radiated at night. Why? Because these areas are blanketed in snow and ice which are white, and do not absorb sunlight in the 1st place.
Maybe these geeks can work on having nature create nano-black-snow? Maybe some upwind coal plants with no emissions equipment would give us black snow :P
Until then I'll be using oil in my new System 2000 to generate Hot-Water yearround, heat in the winter, supplemented by my fireplace and woodstove.
Translated from the Spanish: 16-Aug-08 An expert from the National Autonomous University of Mexico predicted that in about ten years the Earth will enter a "little ice age" which will last from 60 to 80 years and may be caused by the decrease in solar activity.
Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the UNAM, as argued earlier during a conference that teaches at the Centre for Applied Sciences and Technological Development.
In the event, the specialist in remote sensing systems said that the recent rupture of the Argentine Perito Moreno glacier, unusual for having produced a full austral winter, was not due to global warming.
Velasco Herrera described as erroneous predictions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), pursuant to which the planet is experiencing a gradual increase in temperature, the so-called global warming.
The models and forecasts of the IPCC "is incorrect because only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity," said the specialist also in image processing and signs and prevention of natural disasters.
The phenomenon of climate change, he added, should include other kinds of factors, both internal, such as volcanoes and the very human activity, and external, such as solar activity.
Mt Ruapehu is claiming the biggest snow base ever recorded for a New Zealand skifield with over 4.5m of snow on the ground.
Ruapehu Alpine Lifts, operator of Mt Ruapehu ski area, was celebrating what it called a major milestone today.
The snow measuring stake at Turoa previously only stood at 380cm so had to be extended to measure today's 455cm snow base.
The Whakapapa side of the mountain also had 350cm of snow, the biggest since 1995.
Mt Ruapehu marketing manager Mike Smith said the record-breaking snow base would be paradise for skiers and boarders, and with such large bases the season could potentially keep going into November.
Folks, should I start posting every time someone reports an unusually warm day/week/month, like some posters like to do when something happens that involves cold?
Just leave out AZ. Everyone knows that AZ is too hot to sustain human life without gobs of wasted energy. Ever wonder how much GHG is sent into the atmosphere to keep all those buildings in Phoenix at 72 degrees when it is 110 degrees outside?
Arizonians start out with a carbon footprint the size of Texas before they ever start a car.
I know you would like us to think globally on this subject. People look out at their own thermometer and decide if the climate is cooling or warming. We have literally 1000s of scientists that have not agreed on climate change. All we see are the media and politicians that see a way to raise taxes. If cars have an influence it has to be minimal or we would see a steady rise in all GLOBAL temps. That is not happening. It would be much better for the individual to save those carbon credit dollars for the possible rise or fall in the ocean levels. Than to give them to Uncle Sam to waste.
Gary says, "People look out at their own thermometer and decide if the climate is cooling or warming."
Well, that behavior is not within the concept of Global Warming at all. People have done that (look out at their own thermometer and decide if the climate is cooling or warming) since thermometers were invented.
How you feel about the current climate on that day in your locale has no bearing on a GW discussion. That's just local weather.
Think about if we started a movement to try to affect the global climate based on Joe Public's thermometer on his back porch....................We could get NOTHING done.
That's why we are forced to look at it from a truly GLOBAL perspective and see what the Earf as a whole is doing. It won't melt the polar icecap one minuscule bit if Phoenix is 130 degrees every single day from now until forever.
But if something is happening worldwide based on fossil fuel being burned, we need to know THAT. We DON'T need to know that Anchorage or Denver is having a cold summer or that Atlanta is having an extra warm summer. That does not matter in the larger scope of things.
I think so. It looks like you are very fond of saying that the topic of global warming/climate change is here to stay because it is impossible (in your mind) to prove or disprove that it exists.
You could use the same argument about whether "Nessie" or "Bigfoot" does or does not exist.
If by everyone you mean other posters on this board I think they do. There are some pretty deep thinkers here and I include you in that group. I do disagree with some of your conclusions but I have no doubt that you have put some effort and research into forming your position.
Much of your general population DOES NOT understand the issue being discussed. They are much more involved in Brittany Spears' latest meltdown than in subjects which may end life as we know it or cost them the bulk of their income on bogus remedies.
This makes them susceptible to bad science promoted by a pretty face. If some Hollywood celeb says apples will kill you or global warming is the big bad boogey man these fools run around like chicken-little.
And you wonder why I'm sarcastic.
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Households worried about the high cost of keeping warm this winter will draw little comfort from the Farmers' Almanac, which predicts below-average temperatures for most of the U.S.
"Numb's the word," says the 192-year-old publication, which claims an accuracy rate of 80 to 85 percent for its forecasts that are prepared two years in advance.
The almanac's 2009 edition, which goes on sale Tuesday, says at least two-thirds of the country can expect colder than average temperatures, with only the Far West and Southeast in line for near-normal readings.
"This is going to be catastrophic for millions of people," said almanac editor Peter Geiger, noting that the frigid forecast combined with high prices for heating fuel is sure to compound problems households will face in keeping warm.
The almanac predicts above-normal snowfall for the Great Lakes and Midwest, especially during January and February, and above-normal precipitation for the Southwest in December and for the Southeast in January and February. The Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions should be getting an unusually wet or snowy February, the almanac said.
I don't usually put much stock in that publication but today I did see geese heading south. That's the earliest I can recall seeing that. Maybe they know something Al Gore doesn't :confuse:
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Oldfarmer, goodness just how old are you? You have been putting out this publication for many years now and doing a great job. Nice to have the "horse's mouth" right here on the forum.
Well larsb wanted proof and the upcoming cold winter should satisfy him. It's all right there is black and white.
I would bet 80-85% accuracy is better than any Climate scientist can claim. I would be happy if anyone could predict the temperature tomorrow + or - 1 degree.
PS The UN could better serve mankind by getting up and straightening out the mess in Georgia. It is easier to deal with things they will never be held accountable for.
I'm ready for that cold snowy winter. I just picked up a Craftsman lawn tractor and have a snowblower attachment and tire-chains on order. I'll put some synthetic oil in it for easy starting.
Now if we had some signifigant GW maybe I wouldn't have to spend that $2K and then burn more fuel to run the thing.
BTW - whether it be the wintwer-gas-blend or just the cold - where engines run faster until they warm up - my mpg drops about 25% in the winter.
So by not having more GW I: 1) get much worse mpg, 2) will use about 750 gal of oil to heat the house + 2 cords of wood? and 3) have to fight maybe 100" of snow over the winter. Personally, I don't see the problem with GW, as I would then be able to reduce my energy consumption.
A top observatory that has been measuring sun cycles for over 200 years predicts that global temperatures will drop by two degrees over the next two decades as solar activity grinds to a halt and the planet drastically cools down, potentially heralding the onset of a new ice age.
While the mass media, Al Gore and politicized bodies like the IPCC scaremonger about the perils of global warming and demand the poor and middle class pay CO2 taxes, both hard scientific data and circumstantial evidence points to a clear cooling trend.
Following the end of the Sun's most active period in over 11,000 years, the last 10 years have displayed a clear cooling trend as temperatures post-1998 leveled out and are now plummeting.
China recently experienced its coldest winter in 100 years while northeast America was hit by record snow levels and Britain suffered its coldest April in decades as late-blooming daffodils were pounded with hail and snow on an almost daily basis. The British summer has also left many yearning for global warming, with temperatures in June and July rarely struggling to get over 16 degrees and on one occasion even dropping as low as 9 degrees in the middle of the afternoon.
"Summer heat continues in short supply, continuing a trend that has dominated much of the 21st Century's opening decade," reports the Chicago Tribune. "There have been only 162 days 90 degrees or warmer at Midway Airport over the period from 2000 to 2008. That's by far the fewest 90-degree temperatures in the opening nine years of any decade on record here since 1930."
The reason? Sunspot activity has dwindled. There have only been a handful of days in the past two months where any sunspot activity has been observed and over 400 spotless days have been recorded in the current solar cycle.
"The sun’s surface has been fairly blank for the last couple of years, and that has some worried that it may be entering another Maunder minimum, the sun’s 50-year abstinence from sunspots, which some scientists have linked to the Little Ice Age of the 17th century," reports one science blog.
Long-time man-made global warming advocates NASA assure us that significant sunspot activity will return in 2012, but a recent a paper on recent solar trends by William Livingston and Matthew Penn of the National Solar Observatory in Tucson, predicts that sunspots will all but vanish after 2015.
Since the sun, and not carbon dioxide, is the principle driver of climate change, a dearth of sunspot activity would herald a repeat of the Maunder Minimum, the name given to the period roughly from 1645 to 1715, when sunspots became exceedingly rare and contributed to the onset of the Little Ice Age during which Europe and North America were hit by bitterly cold winters and the Thames river in London completely froze.
Forecasts of a sharp cooling trend are backed by the UK's Armagh Observatory, which has been observing solar activity for over 200 years.
The observatory notes that solar cycles 21 and 22, which were characterized by being short and intense in their activity, led to the natural global warming observed in the 80's and 90's.
"Cycle 23, which hasn't finished yet, looks like it will be long (at least 12 to 13 years) and cycle 24, which has still to start, looks like it will be exceptionally weak," writes one observatory scientist.
Get out the long johns kernick, its gonna be a cold one :shades: .
Is there a cold future just lying in wait for us?
Our own observatory at Armagh is one of the oldest in the world and has been observing solar cycles for more than 200 years.
What this work has shown is that, over all of this time, short and intense cycles coincide with global warmth and long and weak cycles coincide with cooling.
Most recently, this pattern continued in the 1980s and 1990s when cycles 21 and 22 were short (less than 10 years) and intense and it was notably hot. But all this now looks set to change.
Cycle 23, which hasn't finished yet, looks like it will be long (at least 12 to 13 years) and cycle 24, which has still to start, looks like it will be exceptionally weak.
Based on the past Armagh measurements, this suggests that over the next two decades, global temperatures may fall by about 2 degrees C — that is, to a level lower than any we have seen in the last 100 years. Of course, nothing in science is certain. Perhaps (though I doubt it) Armagh's old measurements are wrong or perhaps there are now other factors, such as CO2 emissions, which may change things somewhat.
However, temperatures have already fallen by about 0.5 degrees C over the past 12 months and, if this is only the start of it, it would be a serious concern.
Northern Ireland is not noted for extreme warmth at the best of times and has much more to fear from cold weather than it does from hot. We really need to be sure what is going to happen before spending too much money on combating global warming.
We may need all the money we can save just to help us keep warm.
One clue to the sun's variability comes from the Little Ice Age, during the 17th and 18th centuries, when Europe and North America were much colder and snowier than they are today.
During that time, astronomers noted a nearly complete absence of sunspots, said atmospheric physicist Peter Pilewskie from the University of Colorado, Boulder. Called the Maunder Minimum, he said, the coincidence of this spotless period on the sun with the notable chill of the ice age suggests a sun-climate connection.
Could the sun be getting warmer? If that were so, Pilewskie said it would be unlikely to account for more than a fraction of the observed warming trend. With satellites, scientists have been able to record the total radiation emitted by the sun, and found it has changed very little in the last 30 years.
But those records only go back so far. Several years ago, a team from Germany's Max Planck institute published a paper showing that carbon isotopes trapped in tree rings reveal unprecedented solar activity during the 20th century.
Carbon 14, a heavy form of carbon, is formed when cosmic rays from outer space impact carbon on the Earth. The greater the solar activity, the more the sun's magnetic field deflects the cosmic rays and the less carbon 14 should be stored in tree rings.
According to the Max Planck team, we've been experiencing more solar activity in the last 100 years than we did for the last 8,000 years.
Judith Lean, a solar physicist at the Naval Research Laboratory, calls that conclusion erroneous. She said the isotopes also vary much more with changes in the Earth's own magnetic field and processes on the Earth, thus complicating the analysis.
She said the consensus among solar physicists now is that the sun is in a relatively warm phase, but nothing unprecedented and not hot enough to have raised the temperature a degree in the last century.
But Penn State's Alley said CO2 from volcanoes looks to be the prime suspect for the warm spells of the distant past, and fossil-fuel burning is by far the most likely driver of current trends. "We've looked at the sun. Volcanoes are not doing anything weird. The oceans can dump heat into the atmosphere, but they're getting warmer too," he said.
So it's not as cut and dried as anyone might believe. The debate RAGES ON !!!!
This is only the 22nd of August and I am using over a gallon of humming bird nectar a day. This phenomenon does not usually occur until the middle of September. I am sure that Humming birds are smarter than Al Gore. They are stoking up for the journey to warmer weather. And people say "Dumb animals".
Yes, I can fool some of the folks here but I can never fool my wife of 41 years. She seems to know even before I start to tell a fib. I don't even bother any more.
We have a couple of hibiscus plants on the deck and the humming birds swarm those big red flowers like a pack of hungry wolves. They are definitely stocking up.
"I am sure that Humming birds are smarter than Al Gore. They are stoking up for the journey to warmer weather."
This is not a compliment for the Humming Birds. AlGore has flunked any and all schools and has no business stirring up the carp as he is. The whole Gore family's IQ added and squared doesn't reach that of a single Humming Bird... :-)
Comments
Don't even get me started on the GW hypocrites like Al Gore who pay carbon offsets to his own "green" companies. I really like the loophole for the elite so they can continue their wasteful habits by purchasing these credits and feel good about their lifestyle.
If cars are causing the problem build more nuclear plants (zero GW gas) and switchover to electric cars/trains for transportation of people or goods. Switch to other electric producing technologies as they become economically viable.
Here is an example of carbon offset spending. This article shows how the DNC is giving a school district carbon offset money for a wind powered electric generator. http://facethestate.com/articles/dnc-boondoggle-carbon-credits-fund-broken-turbi- - ne
Guess what the school district is collecting offset money and not producing electricity due to problems with the generator.
BP has given grants to study everything under the sun for 30 years or more. I met many scientist in Prudhoe studying ice cores to watching the tundra grass grow. It is best for corporations to work within a set of environmental parameters that does not cause them problems down the road.
Has anybody ever wondered if THAT isn't the real agenda of the GW-Al Gore types?
They want to be able to control who gets to breathe. Talk about total control!
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Being German, she knew what the [non-permissible content removed]'s had in mind for the Jews. Irena smuggled infants out in the bottom of her toolbox and in the back of her truck she had a large burlap bag for bigger kids.
She also had a dog in the back of her truck that she had trained to bark when they were stopped by [non-permissible content removed] soldiers upon entering and leaving the ghetto.
The soldiers, of course, wanted nothing to do with the dog and the barking helped cover up any noise the kids made. During her time of doing this Irena managed to smuggle out and save over 2500 children.
Eventually she was caught and severely beaten by the [non-permissible content removed]. Both of her arms and both of her legs were broken.
Irena kept a record of the names of all the children she had smuggled out and kept a list of the names buried in a glass jar under a tree in her back yard.
After the war she tried to locate as many of the parents as possible in hopes of reuniting the families, but of course, most of the parents had been gassed. The kids she helped got placed in foster homes or were adopted.
Last year Irena was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize but she lost. The Prize was won by Al Gore for doing a slide show on global warming.
You can verify this story on snopes.com or go to irenasendler.org
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Sure seems a good candidate. However I fail to see how this relates to the topic of discussion.
Hmmm....Your statement is true but very misleading as all nominations are kept secret for 50 years.That is why I listed the other source. Plus Snopes.com said this was a true story.
I just thought it was an interesting comment on the world we live in and it did concern global warming.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If science were to say that GW was caused by the hot air coming from Washington DC, it would be more believable than my SUV causing it.
Sounds like she's a better candidate for sainthood instead of a mere Nobel at that.
But the topic is GW and autos, not whether you hate the messenger(s).
I hardly think that this woman, who has received so many other awards over the years including personal congratulations from the POPE, would lie about something like this. Is this what you are inferring?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
And I don't think Sendler nominated herself but rather the Polish president (Kaczynski) initiated the proposal.
I realize it's the weekend and all, but let's get back to the topic shall we?
Somehow with air conditioning outdoor sets in Beijing doesn't encourage me to worry about alleged global warming from my auto exhaust.
link title
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This is absolutely SOP for at least the majors if not the minors.
If you have ever been to the Dallas Convention Center (Dallas, TX) can you even imagine its' enclosed parking area being air conditioned to 64-68 degrees when it is 95/95 ourside?
In other news Nancy Pelosi is now in favor of off-shore drilling. The polls had nothing to do with it.
And finally, the Easter Bunny has decided to run for president.
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2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The high temperature at Denver International Airport today was 58
degrees.
This 58 degree reading will replace the previous low maximum
temperature record for August 16th which was 63 degrees set 118
years ago in 1890.
Meanwhile Portland Oregon breaking heat records, while Anchorage is setting records for coldest summer EVER recorded.
Here is my plan. Take all the SUVs to the cold areas from the hot spots. Spread the temps a little more evenly :shades:
I've got a better idea. Run around screaming "GLOBAL COOLING". Tell people the Polar bears are freezing to death. Predict that homes will be crushed under the advancing glaciers. Warn that beach front property will be worthless as sea levels fall. You don't need any real proof. When people disagree with you, accuse them of being racist republicans in bed with big oil.
Once you get a few drugged-out Hollywood types on board to spread the word you can get rich on government grants "studying" the problem. :shades:
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All that stuff is irrelevant to a global warming discussion.
That's because "regional weather events" have nothing to do with "global climate."
I have said it before but maybe it bears repeating:
"Global Warming does NOT mean that every city, every town, every burb, every country, will have a hotter than normal season every year from now on."
Cold snaps will still happen. Heat waves and drought and floods and tornadoes will still happen. Snow on Easter Day will still happen.
All that has nothing to do with proving or disproving man's potential influence on the GLOBAL climate.
Then there's not much, or not going to be much change. So if there is GW it is so small as not to even worry about.
All that has nothing to do with proving or disproving man's potential influence ...
"Potential"? I thought we were talking about whether there is an "actual" influence. If all you're going to debate about is "potential", we might as well debate whether building windmills will change the air currents. Almost has "potential" to change anything else.
Maybe in a few hundred years man will have the potential power thru advances in technology to change the Earth's climate. Right now we are powerless compared to nature, and are just along for the ride on the surface of this planet.
So Global Warming only affects part of the globe at any given time? You see there are people that would like it to be a little warmer. Denver, Anchorage and the Northwest Coastal regions. So IF my SUV is a small part in helping my fellow man get a little warmer. I am most happy to oblige. Quite frankly I don't give a d___ if NYC ends up under water. It will give the poor folks in the Burbs beach front property.
Some areas are looking to ban Wind Generation. It causes several medical problems for those living near by. Back to the old alternative drawing board. Good thing we got coal to fall back on.
Potential health effects from constant exposure to noise run a wide gamut. At high levels, hearing loss can occur but constant exposure to noise at levels expected from industrial wind turbines would more likely result in anxiety, nervousness and a general lack of a sense of well being, - especially in those who are sensitive. Noise from wind turbines can also affect both the ability to sleep (e.g. not being able to fall asleep or waking during sleep) and sleep patterns (e.g. quality of sleep). A person whose sleep patterns are disrupted may sleep through the night yet not feel rested in the morning. This can pose dangers in the operation of cars and equipment.
http://wind.netwny.com/issues/health_risks_of_wind_power.html#
Seems like it still comes down to storage, whether for your house or your car.
Absolutely INcorrect. Global Warming means a trend of upward global surface and air temperatures across the whole spectrum of worldwide climate.
Not merely individual countries or regions being warm.
Advice to people who aren't happy with the temps where they are: If it's too hot or cold where you live, change locales.
That's what I would do. I like it where heat and AC are needed minimally throughout the year. Not many places that fill the bill. So we have to use energy of some sort to make life enjoyable.
PS
You left out ocean temperatures that control at least 80% of the whole Global temperature.
Maybe these geeks can work on having nature create nano-black-snow?
Until then I'll be using oil in my new System 2000 to generate Hot-Water yearround, heat in the winter, supplemented by my fireplace and woodstove.
16-Aug-08
An expert from the National Autonomous University of Mexico predicted that in about ten years the Earth will enter a "little ice age" which will last from 60 to 80 years and may be caused by the decrease in solar activity.
Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the UNAM, as argued earlier during a conference that teaches at the Centre for Applied Sciences and Technological Development.
In the event, the specialist in remote sensing systems said that the recent rupture of the Argentine Perito Moreno glacier, unusual for having produced a full austral winter, was not due to global warming.
Velasco Herrera described as erroneous predictions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), pursuant to which the planet is experiencing a gradual increase in temperature, the so-called global warming.
The models and forecasts of the IPCC "is incorrect because only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity," said the specialist also in image processing and signs and prevention of natural disasters.
The phenomenon of climate change, he added, should include other kinds of factors, both internal, such as volcanoes and the very human activity, and external, such as solar activity.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.milenio.com%2Fmexico%2F- milenio%2Fnota.asp%3Fid%3D651680&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=es&tl=en
Mt Ruapehu is claiming the biggest snow base ever recorded for a New Zealand skifield with over 4.5m of snow on the ground.
Ruapehu Alpine Lifts, operator of Mt Ruapehu ski area, was celebrating what it called a major milestone today.
The snow measuring stake at Turoa previously only stood at 380cm so had to be extended to measure today's 455cm snow base.
The Whakapapa side of the mountain also had 350cm of snow, the biggest since 1995.
Mt Ruapehu marketing manager Mike Smith said the record-breaking snow base would be paradise for skiers and boarders, and with such large bases the season could potentially keep going into November.
Sounds like a racist republican to me.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If so, this thread will grow VERY quickly.
Arizonians start out with a carbon footprint the size of Texas before they ever start a car.
I know you would like us to think globally on this subject. People look out at their own thermometer and decide if the climate is cooling or warming. We have literally 1000s of scientists that have not agreed on climate change. All we see are the media and politicians that see a way to raise taxes. If cars have an influence it has to be minimal or we would see a steady rise in all GLOBAL temps. That is not happening. It would be much better for the individual to save those carbon credit dollars for the possible rise or fall in the ocean levels. Than to give them to Uncle Sam to waste.
Well, that behavior is not within the concept of Global Warming at all. People have done that (look out at their own thermometer and decide if the climate is cooling or warming) since thermometers were invented.
How you feel about the current climate on that day in your locale has no bearing on a GW discussion. That's just local weather.
Think about if we started a movement to try to affect the global climate based on Joe Public's thermometer on his back porch....................We could get NOTHING done.
That's why we are forced to look at it from a truly GLOBAL perspective and see what the Earf as a whole is doing. It won't melt the polar icecap one minuscule bit if Phoenix is 130 degrees every single day from now until forever.
But if something is happening worldwide based on fossil fuel being burned, we need to know THAT. We DON'T need to know that Anchorage or Denver is having a cold summer or that Atlanta is having an extra warm summer. That does not matter in the larger scope of things.
You see my point?
I think so. It looks like you are very fond of saying that the topic of global warming/climate change is here to stay because it is impossible (in your mind) to prove or disprove that it exists.
You could use the same argument about whether "Nessie" or "Bigfoot" does or does not exist.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If you are SERIOUSLY equating my point to the existence of BigFoot, then I must be doing a POOR job of making my point.
I could go into this long dissertation about the differences, but instead I'm going to rely on the belief that you were merely being sarcastic.
My main intent is to point out that local weather is not Global Climate. Your local Channel 12 meteorologist is not a climate scientist.
I hope everyone understands that at least.
If by everyone you mean other posters on this board I think they do. There are some pretty deep thinkers here and I include you in that group. I do disagree with some of your conclusions but I have no doubt that you have put some effort and research into forming your position.
Much of your general population DOES NOT understand the issue being discussed. They are much more involved in Brittany Spears' latest meltdown than in subjects which may end life as we know it or cost them the bulk of their income on bogus remedies.
This makes them susceptible to bad science promoted by a pretty face. If some Hollywood celeb says apples will kill you or global warming is the big bad boogey man these fools run around like chicken-little.
And you wonder why I'm sarcastic.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
(just joking on the suing part)
Households worried about the high cost of keeping warm this winter will draw little comfort from the Farmers' Almanac, which predicts below-average temperatures for most of the U.S.
"Numb's the word," says the 192-year-old publication, which claims an accuracy rate of 80 to 85 percent for its forecasts that are prepared two years in advance.
The almanac's 2009 edition, which goes on sale Tuesday, says at least two-thirds of the country can expect colder than average temperatures, with only the Far West and Southeast in line for near-normal readings.
"This is going to be catastrophic for millions of people," said almanac editor Peter Geiger, noting that the frigid forecast combined with high prices for heating fuel is sure to compound problems households will face in keeping warm.
The almanac predicts above-normal snowfall for the Great Lakes and Midwest, especially during January and February, and above-normal precipitation for the Southwest in December and for the Southeast in January and February. The Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions should be getting an unusually wet or snowy February, the almanac said.
But we need more to keep us warm this winter according to larsb post.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't usually put much stock in that publication but today I did see geese heading south. That's the earliest I can recall seeing that. Maybe they know something Al Gore doesn't :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well larsb wanted proof and the upcoming cold winter should satisfy him. It's all right there is black and white.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
PS
The UN could better serve mankind by getting up and straightening out the mess in Georgia. It is easier to deal with things they will never be held accountable for.
LOL Thank you.
My wife would say that it is the other end of the horse giving his opinions here.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Now if we had some signifigant GW maybe I wouldn't have to spend that $2K and then burn more fuel to run the thing.
BTW - whether it be the wintwer-gas-blend or just the cold - where engines run faster until they warm up - my mpg drops about 25% in the winter.
So by not having more GW I: 1) get much worse mpg, 2) will use about 750 gal of oil to heat the house + 2 cords of wood? and 3) have to fight maybe 100" of snow over the winter. Personally, I don't see the problem with GW, as I would then be able to reduce my energy consumption.
A top observatory that has been measuring sun cycles for over 200 years predicts that global temperatures will drop by two degrees over the next two decades as solar activity grinds to a halt and the planet drastically cools down, potentially heralding the onset of a new ice age.
While the mass media, Al Gore and politicized bodies like the IPCC scaremonger about the perils of global warming and demand the poor and middle class pay CO2 taxes, both hard scientific data and circumstantial evidence points to a clear cooling trend.
Following the end of the Sun's most active period in over 11,000 years, the last 10 years have displayed a clear cooling trend as temperatures post-1998 leveled out and are now plummeting.
China recently experienced its coldest winter in 100 years while northeast America was hit by record snow levels and Britain suffered its coldest April in decades as late-blooming daffodils were pounded with hail and snow on an almost daily basis. The British summer has also left many yearning for global warming, with temperatures in June and July rarely struggling to get over 16 degrees and on one occasion even dropping as low as 9 degrees in the middle of the afternoon.
"Summer heat continues in short supply, continuing a trend that has dominated much of the 21st Century's opening decade," reports the Chicago Tribune. "There have been only 162 days 90 degrees or warmer at Midway Airport over the period from 2000 to 2008. That's by far the fewest 90-degree temperatures in the opening nine years of any decade on record here since 1930."
The reason? Sunspot activity has dwindled. There have only been a handful of days in the past two months where any sunspot activity has been observed and over 400 spotless days have been recorded in the current solar cycle.
"The sun’s surface has been fairly blank for the last couple of years, and that has some worried that it may be entering another Maunder minimum, the sun’s 50-year abstinence from sunspots, which some scientists have linked to the Little Ice Age of the 17th century," reports one science blog.
Long-time man-made global warming advocates NASA assure us that significant sunspot activity will return in 2012, but a recent a paper on recent solar trends by William Livingston and Matthew Penn of the National Solar Observatory in Tucson, predicts that sunspots will all but vanish after 2015.
Since the sun, and not carbon dioxide, is the principle driver of climate change, a dearth of sunspot activity would herald a repeat of the Maunder Minimum, the name given to the period roughly from 1645 to 1715, when sunspots became exceedingly rare and contributed to the onset of the Little Ice Age during which Europe and North America were hit by bitterly cold winters and the Thames river in London completely froze.
Forecasts of a sharp cooling trend are backed by the UK's Armagh Observatory, which has been observing solar activity for over 200 years.
The observatory notes that solar cycles 21 and 22, which were characterized by being short and intense in their activity, led to the natural global warming observed in the 80's and 90's.
"Cycle 23, which hasn't finished yet, looks like it will be long (at least 12 to 13 years) and cycle 24, which has still to start, looks like it will be exceptionally weak," writes one observatory scientist.
Is there a cold future just lying in wait for us?
Our own observatory at Armagh is one of the oldest in the world and has been observing solar cycles for more than 200 years.
What this work has shown is that, over all of this time, short and intense cycles coincide with global warmth and long and weak cycles coincide with cooling.
Most recently, this pattern continued in the 1980s and 1990s when cycles 21 and 22 were short (less than 10 years) and intense and it was notably hot. But all this now looks set to change.
Cycle 23, which hasn't finished yet, looks like it will be long (at least 12 to 13 years) and cycle 24, which has still to start, looks like it will be exceptionally weak.
Based on the past Armagh measurements, this suggests that over the next two decades, global temperatures may fall by about 2 degrees C — that is, to a level lower than any we have seen in the last 100 years. Of course, nothing in science is certain. Perhaps (though I doubt it) Armagh's old measurements are wrong or perhaps there are now other factors, such as CO2 emissions, which may change things somewhat.
However, temperatures have already fallen by about 0.5 degrees C over the past 12 months and, if this is only the start of it, it would be a serious concern.
Northern Ireland is not noted for extreme warmth at the best of times and has much more to fear from cold weather than it does from hot. We really need to be sure what is going to happen before spending too much money on combating global warming.
We may need all the money we can save just to help us keep warm.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/letters/is-there-a-cold-future-just-ly- ing-in-wait-for-us-13938036.html
GW not proven true or false YET
One clue to the sun's variability comes from the Little Ice Age, during the 17th and 18th centuries, when Europe and North America were much colder and snowier than they are today.
During that time, astronomers noted a nearly complete absence of sunspots, said atmospheric physicist Peter Pilewskie from the University of Colorado, Boulder. Called the Maunder Minimum, he said, the coincidence of this spotless period on the sun with the notable chill of the ice age suggests a sun-climate connection.
Could the sun be getting warmer? If that were so, Pilewskie said it would be unlikely to account for more than a fraction of the observed warming trend. With satellites, scientists have been able to record the total radiation emitted by the sun, and found it has changed very little in the last 30 years.
But those records only go back so far. Several years ago, a team from Germany's Max Planck institute published a paper showing that carbon isotopes trapped in tree rings reveal unprecedented solar activity during the 20th century.
Carbon 14, a heavy form of carbon, is formed when cosmic rays from outer space impact carbon on the Earth. The greater the solar activity, the more the sun's magnetic field deflects the cosmic rays and the less carbon 14 should be stored in tree rings.
According to the Max Planck team, we've been experiencing more solar activity in the last 100 years than we did for the last 8,000 years.
Judith Lean, a solar physicist at the Naval Research Laboratory, calls that conclusion erroneous. She said the isotopes also vary much more with changes in the Earth's own magnetic field and processes on the Earth, thus complicating the analysis.
She said the consensus among solar physicists now is that the sun is in a relatively warm phase, but nothing unprecedented and not hot enough to have raised the temperature a degree in the last century.
But Penn State's Alley said CO2 from volcanoes looks to be the prime suspect for the warm spells of the distant past, and fossil-fuel burning is by far the most likely driver of current trends. "We've looked at the sun. Volcanoes are not doing anything weird. The oceans can dump heat into the atmosphere, but they're getting warmer too," he said.
So it's not as cut and dried as anyone might believe. The debate RAGES ON !!!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
This is not a compliment for the Humming Birds. AlGore has flunked any and all schools and has no business stirring up the carp as he is. The whole Gore family's IQ added and squared doesn't reach that of a single Humming Bird... :-)