I think the policies resulting in so called "action plans" leave a LOT to be desired. They are in fact disingenuous at almost every level you care to examine and/or analyze. I am guessing you understand what I mean, but can give examples if desired.
I accept that it appears that I am merely splitting linguistic hairs. I hope you will accept my word that I am not. What I am arguing is about the maintenance of proper roles. It is not about what science can or can not do. It is about what science should or should not be expected to do. It is all about avoiding bias and prejudice and promotion of any agenda. That is why science as a process is structured the way it is.
If any scientist ever tells you he is going to prove "X," then everything that scientist says after that should be suspect. I will at least give him a nod though since he announced his agenda ahead of time. I expect this from politicians and lawyers and various other advocates, not scientists.
I have heard it argued that that one of the primary reasons we a have this anthropogenic global warming debacle is because of exactly what we are discussing. It seems that a certain national government (UK) approached a certain national organization of scientists (Royal Society) and asked them to prove something. The government, for a variety of political reasons, wanted to vilify coal and oil as sources of energy and promote the increased use of nuclear energy. They had heard that there may be a causal link between CO2 emissions and global warming. So, they approached the scientists and said "Here's a bunch of money for you to prove that industrial CO2 emissions are causing global warming." The scientists said "Ok, will do" and proceeded to provide all the proof the government wanted complete with a host of apocalyptic predictions. Viola. CO2 bad, oil bad, coal bad, OMG we're all gonna die. That bandwagon pulled away from the curb and folks have been jumping on ever since. Now we have practically every government in the world individually and corporately investing billions in reinforcing this proof and blaming global warming if a flea farts the wrong way and calls it the harbinger of the end times, but everything will be ok if you just buy a few more carbon credits.
I am not one who usually likes to spread conspiracy theories, but this sequence of events is pretty well documented and no one really disputes it. I readily admit that the flea fart part might warrant further study though.
Cleared: Jury decides that threat of global warming justifies breaking the law
The threat of global warming is so great that campaigners were justified in causing more than £35,000 worth of damage to a coal-fired power station, a jury decided yesterday. In a verdict that will have shocked ministers and energy companies the jury at Maidstone Crown Court cleared six Greenpeace activists of criminal damage.
Jurors accepted defence arguments that the six had a "lawful excuse" to damage property at Kingsnorth power station in Kent to prevent even greater damage caused by climate change. The defence of "lawful excuse" under the Criminal Damage Act 1971 allows damage to be caused to property to prevent even greater damage – such as breaking down the door of a burning house to tackle a fire.
Ahh, the joys of trial by jury. On that basis.................now that the precedent has been set....................we UK citizens may now do just about anything we wish - provided we can attach a "GW" tag to it.
Add that to the move toward Sharia law for Islamic citizens and you are headed for trouble. So sorry my friend..
The worst part is my wife and l love all the mystery movies from the BBC. We have all DVDs of Poirot, Foyle, Morse, Marple, Lovejoy, Campion, Peter Wimsey and several I cannot remember. Better than anything on US Television. I hope they continue.
I have a copy of the original broadcast version. I also would like to see the DVD released version. The changes don't change the argument, but the technical corrections are more accurate.
What I would really like to see or read is a presentation of the points on which there is no disagreement. Strip away all the politically driven conclusions and predictions and conspiracy theories. Of course it would probably only be about a 15 minute presentation.
Yes, The Channel 4 "Great Global Warming Scandal" was a real breath of fresh air, (not sure if there's a pun in there), but was, of course, roundly slammed by the rest of the media. Still, it made for interesting debates. As for Sharia Law; can't see it happening in U.K. - we have a history of learned, (i.e. out of touch), judges making such pronouncements. They get 5 minutes of fame then go back to sleep again and the citizens carry on as normal.
My dear departed Granny had it right when she used to tell us that we had to "Eat your greens". That lady was smarter than we gave her credit for.
On a car note - my local Honda dealer is offering a brand new Honda Legend for circa GBP23k............that's GBP10k below list. As there's no diesel option I guess they're not selling too well here in Britain - or anywhere in Europe. Still, it's a great deal for such a loaded car compared to the price for a BMW or Merc. A 530i retails for around GBP32k without any extras.
Hope and pray that none of you were too badly affected by "Ike".
Ok, I'll go. Let's pick-on California first. They are even soliciting comment on their proposed action plan to battle climate change.
Here's the draft plan I have not read the entire plan yet myself, but will work through it.
An initial observation. According to their own audit, transportation represents the lion's share of their greenhouse gas emissions. Guess CA can expect more regulations on car emissions. Whoopee! My knee jerk question is will the Honda Clarity be banned since it emits the worst greenhouse gas of all? :sick:
According to their own audit, transportation represents the lion's share of their greenhouse gas emissions.
Hmm. I've seen studies that put the national average at about 20% for motor vehicles including trucks. Now people in CA might drive more, and there might be a higher % of big rigs on the road because of the ports; but I would have to guess just like the rest of the country that the #1 source is electrical generation.
Everytime you fire up the AC, the heat (anyone use natural gas or oil) the TV, ... and you're not pulling your power from nuclear or renewable, then you're creating GHG's.
Everytime you fire up the AC, the heat (anyone use natural gas or oil) the TV, ... and you're not pulling your power from nuclear or renewable, then you're creating GHG's
Well, all those things gotta go!! No wait. We can just quadruple the electric rates from coal or natural gas generated electricity AND ban nuclear. Then send the extra profits to Al Gore. That'll show us!
According to their audit, generation of electricity is their number 2 source. The narrative accompanying the audit graph combines this with other energy uses by commercial and residential users.
If CA were to cut GHG emissions by 80% as proposed, would not that create a giant vacuum? We would then suck in all the excess GHG from Oregon, Nevada and Arizona. :shades:
A related story. SDG&E is trying to reach their mandate for renewable energy. It seems that environmentalist and others are not interested in helping out. They have blocked several projects to get solar from the desert to the customers. So as usual with CA Legislators and CARB it is all "Pie in the Sky" BS.
SDG&E Likely Won't Meet Deadline As Stirling Project Awaits OK
I suspect the [non-permissible content removed] landscapers who just spent an hour with their emissions-belching tools in front of my window probably contributed more to the ideal of global warming than many modern cars will this week.
You have to remember CARB would lie about anything to put forth their agenda. They are totally void of moral ethics. Controlled by the GW cult types that have taken over the CA legislature.
unless they're electric leaf-blowers, eh? I remember the story of a Boeing Supervisor, the guy who interviewed me in Sept.of 1979, to be exact.
When he retired, somewhere around the early 90's IIRC, we started asking an acquaintance who still worked with us there at Boeing what Larry was up to. They said he bought a leaf-blower(dunno if his was electric or ghastly) and was enchanted with it. He not only did his own yard he was volunteering to help out some neighbors with their leaves.
I never saw the need to buy one of those contraptions.
And gas powered trimmers, edgers, massively inefficient lawnmowers, etc.
Of course, this will make the beloved entrepreneur take responsibility for the negative externalities of his business, and to make a businessman take responsibility is un-American.
There's also a big segment with some kind of mental defect that makes them play with leaf blowers, revving them up over and over again, screwing around. Probably the same mentality as those who rev Harleys in a similar way.
I covered my high maintenance lawn with weed cloth and it is now covered with wood chips. I only have a battery powered chain saw and hedge trimmer. Southern California is going into a water shortage and I am planting things that require very little water. Except my veggies.
I'll start up my electric chain saw for a small yard project. It sometimes is the best tool for the job. But a leaf-blower? What is the big thrill here? Maybe if I had a huge yard with maple leaves all over it or something, but that is fortunately not the case.
fintail-I think you hit on it as to the leaf-blower thing. The Tim Allen/Harley Davidson crowd with Metallica still blasting in their ears get some kind of off-work enjoyment with these things. Yikes. :sick:
I'm sure the citizens of Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona will be eternally grateful. :shades:
Did you read the draft? I just finished. If that thing is fully implemented, it will represent the greatest regulatory reach of any governmental entity in our history. Literally every sector of your government and every segment of your society will be asked to contribute to the battle against the "growing threat" of global warming. Sure, they call for voluntary measures and market based initiatives, but the amount of legislation and regulation that is likely to come out of this is mind boggling. To say nothing of the litigation that is likely to be spawned.
As far as cars are concerned, the cornerstone of the plan is the implementation of the Pavley efficiency standards, and thus reducing GHG emissions through higher fuel efficiency. Some may recall this. It was in the news some time ago. CA is the only state that is allowed to develop their own efficiency standards for cars and trucks. These usually have exceeded CAFE standards. CA then must ask for permission to enforce the standards. The Pavley standards were recently made even more stringent, and CA asked for permission to implement the new standards. The EPA denied their request, just like they denied permission to implement the original Pavley standards. CA is currently suing the EPA over this. The plan says that if CA is not able to implement the standards, they will require auto manufacturers to make up the difference in GHG emissions via other means and the reductions would have to equal what would have been achieved under Pavley or their cars will not be certified for sale in CA. Precedent for this type of bullying already exists in the differing gasoline and diesel fuel requirements around the country.
When you bottom line that it means that CA's regulatory reach would extend beyond their own borders. I guess that's nothing new though.
When you bottom line that it means that CA's regulatory reach would extend beyond their own borders. I guess that's nothing new though.
That is exactly right. When our utilities double to pay for alternative generation who will the people blame? When they get a huge surcharge on their license renewal as was already done once and Ahnold revoked it. It is going to further erode the economy of a state that is close to bankruptcy. Ahnold refused to sign the budget today. Who will pay for GW in CA. I know that there is a mass exodus of businesses that are not going to be helping the economy. Why stay in CA when TX or some other state is offering big incentives to move out. CA will be another Michigan shortly.
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger says he will veto a state budget passed after a 78-day stalemate, setting up a historic showdown with the Legislature.
As the San Francisco Chronicle explains, the proposed budget sought to close a $17 billion deficit for the fiscal year that began July 1 without new taxes, a demand by Republicans. It did so by requiring all taxpayers to make earlier and larger tax payments to the state government.
Schwarzenegger, a Republican, made the announcement this afternoon. The veto will mark the first time in modern history that a California governor has rejected a veto a state spending plan. The Democrat-controlled Legislature has said it is prepared to override a veto.
alltorque wrote : " Hope and pray that none of you were too badly affected by "Ike". Thanks, alltorque. All in all Rather lucky I'd say. 4:00 am Saturday, Sept 13th. Ike is officially a category two but was 1 mph shy of category 3, for about 4 hours you'd hear a train type noise alternating with the windows moaning.I know , weird but I don't know how else to describe it. I was asleep my wife couldn't and was up watching tv. The cable went first, then the power would go out for 30 seconds to a minute and come back on again. This happened 12 times in 45 minutes and the 13th time it didn't come back on. At 6 am the water started coming in from the atriums, towels and sheets were deployed immediately and sopping ones brought to the washer until finally the band passed us and we were in tropical storm, more sheets and towels, noise but not the " moaning" . My land line seemed to survive and I made a few calls. By 3:30 the telephone was mysteriously dead. Hmmm. I am dsl so goodbye internet as well. Open windows, high 80's but humidity at 99.9% so picture real feel of mid 90's . We read books in cloudy light then listened to the radio on battery. Cold shower and then bed. Awake Sunday and I tell the better half that I'm not going to do it again. I went through a week of no power and water with Alicia and I'm older and more sane now. Let's find a motel/hotel with power and check in. We go looking but there are no such with power. A local grocery chain has opened for business, HEB. Their sign is dark as is their store. We need Ice and batteries (news) as what is in our fridge/freezer will spoil soon.Large cardboard signs penned in magic marker on each side on the entry with bouncer turning away those seeking the impossible.No ice, no water, no batteries, no bread, no meat, no fish, no produce or imperishables. Cash only and no change. We leave but I embrace a good feeling toward this chain as at least they were trying. 10:30 Pm Sunday, the power comes on. Yippee !!!! First they were saying 1-2 weeks and then 2-3 weeks and finally 3-4 weeks before final power restoration . Centerpoint, the infrastructure provider for Harris county, flew in 7,000 workers from other power companies to get things up and running asap. First was health, second was water and/or critical needs last was least damage to power grid going toward most. My office, another county and another power grid infrastructure does not have power so I sit home on Monday. Tuesday as well as I contemplate going to the other side of town to conduct business . Tuesday 5;30 pm, Phone comes back on as well as dsl. Hooray! Office has gotten power so I can go to tomorrow. Double Hooray. Thoughts : I am truly lucky / blessed.They were talking 3-4 weeks and here I am almost 100% restored in in under 4 days. FEMA, you are another worthless government agency. Two weeks have you known and have you been able to provide ice, water or food on a timely basis ? Nay, although I was not needing of your largesse, you were as typical, a day late and a dollar short . Fold , you incompetent imbeciles. But alas I am too kind. Anyway, I have faired far better than most . It truly was a mean lil sob . To those that think about the weather, they have nothing else to talk about , Shame, shame shame .Your insensitivity is excused as apparently you know not better.The pleasure of your response, Ye who shall not be named. Mdyfu.
Duke, thanks for the update. I would guess that many of us have friends and relatives in Houston, I know I do. I have been emailing a buddy of mine for two days with no reply so I knew the power was out.
Your post prompted me to check my email and there was a note and pics from my buddy. Big relief. They are fine.
Glad to see you came thru in good shape. What in the world is wrong with FEMA? They must have a death wish. I say junk the whole works and start over. Looks like they did not learn anything from Katrina.
You are a brave man Gunga Din. Glad you are safe and well. Don't drink the water yet.
FEMA, you are another worthless government agency.
Just one of many failed Social Programs that the Feds have inacted. That one spawned by Jimmy Carter. The real problem is giving people a false sense of security. They somehow think the Feds will save them from any eventuality. If a giant boulder falls from the sky and lands on your head, nothing the Feds can do but scrape up the mess.
I read that the government was paying 100% of the cleanup bill. Is that the state of TX or the Feds?
I haven't heard yet if Al Gore or his beady eyed side kick RFK jr are blaming this one on Global Warming.
I have an electric chainsaw too. I figure that any job that requires anything bigger, has enough destructive potential to it that I'd just be better off paying someone to do it!
I have a gas-powered weed whacker that I borrowed from my uncle sitting in the garage. Used it once. That was enough. That sucker is EVIL! Loud, stinky, and a bit of overkill. One of my roommates hurt his shoulder trying to get it started once. I don't like using it around trees because it'll strip the bark off of them, and also strips paint off the house. I hate to think what it would do to my ankles!
As for getting up leaves, I'm in a country enough area that if you just let them lay, they just sort of disperse and go away on their own, eventually. My other roommate bought a leaf blower (is also has a switch that lets it go from blow to suck) but I think it's electric/battery powered, so not so evil on the environment. I've never bothered to use it. Easier to just rake 'em up, IMO.
I misspoke in this post. The Pavley standards are auto emissions standards, not efficiency standards. I apologize for my confusion.
CA is the only state that is allowed to set its own emissions standards (by virtue of being the only state that may set its own air quality standards) Other states may adopt the CA standards, but can not develop their own. The standards set by CA must meet or exceed standards set by the federal gov. CA must request a waiver from the EPA in order to implement and enforce their standards. This request was denied by the EPA. The EPA is under no obligation to grant any such request, but usually just rubber stamps the request. This is the first such request the EPA ever denied. This is what led to all the lawsuits. This led to the Supreme Court ruling last year that GHG are in fact pollutants and the EPA does have the authority to regulate them as such. The court did not compel the EPA to grant CA their waiver. That is the basis of pending litigation.
So, the courts have found that science has indeed shown evidence that GW is being caused by GHG emissions and that the government has the authority to regulate such emissions but is under no obligation to do so.
The CA plan says that if they do not receive the waiver to enforce Pavley their first backup strategy is to require auto makers to show they have met emission levels equivalent to Pavley before their cars will be certified for sale in CA.
Is it just me or does that sound like if they do not get the waiver they will just enforce the standards anyway?
Their second backup strategy is a feebate program. Buyers of cars that do not meet the emissions standards will pay a fee into a fund that in turn will be used to pay rebates to buyers of cars that do meet the standards. Still strikes me as an end run around the denial of the waiver since the schedules of the program would still be tied to Pavley.
Of course it is all probably moot since it appears the next administration will likely reverse the EPA waiver decision regardless of which candidate is elected.
Just what do car dealers do with the hundreds of cars that are flooded or damaged in a major storm? Do they sell them as storm damaged or just turn them over to the insurance company?
I have a feeling that a lot of these beauties will be making their way north soon.
Do dealers check for flood damage at the auctions?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
When was it, again, that the cooling was supposed to start? Sept 1st?
For the 30th consecutive year, the Earth's summer temperature was above average (left), according to data released Tuesday by the National Climatic Data Center. Global temperatures were the ninth-warmest since records began in 1880. (Climatologists define summer as the months of June, July and August.)
Measuring just the globe's land areas, it was the seventh-warmest summer on record.
The summer was unusually warm in most of the USA, Mexico, Europe, Australia, the British Isles, Asia and South America, while cooler-than-average conditions were recorded across the western and southern coast of Alaska, parts of northern Scandinavia and northwestern Russia.
Additionally, the National Snow and Ice Data Center reported Tuesday that Arctic sea ice melted to its second-lowest level on record, just slightly more than the 2007 record-low. Given trends of the past 30 years, likely triggered by man-made global warming, scientists predict that within five to 10 years, the Arctic could be entirely ice-free in the summer.
yep, some here, if I can't cut it up with my electric chain saw with what I think is a 16" bar, that job will go to a professional. I have a neighbor who trims my tree limbs for me(ones from my trees that extend in to his side of the property line...he just reaches up and trims off without an extension or a ladder) and then deposits them on my side of the property. Without saying anything to me about it. OK fine.
But a leaf blower? Same thing, it gets windy in SE Arizona and eventually they just blow off somewhere else. I haven't had to rake one time in the year and a half's time since my wife and I bought this house in town. Can't complain about that much, either.
Steve wrote : "They get washed." Right on. As the insurance commercials on tv go, Fresh paint! Check carfax for previous owner registration. Galveston,Kemah, League City, Crystal Beach, Sargent, Winnie, Bolivar, say pass.
last post, too. I mentioned that I haven't had to rake one time yet. Yes, that's true, but I didn't mention that my Toro self-propelled lawnmower has a bag for catching the mowed grass. Otherwise I'd be raking every mow, which would reach up and pop me in the eye with a howitzer!
It's nice to just take that puppy off of there and dump the cut grass out, and then continue mowing. I know, nothing new in technology, just good, sound old-school technology at work there.
And, yes, the ICE on my lawnmower is contributing to global warming just as much as the loudmouth's over in Hollywood are contributing to GW just by making all of those diddly comments about politico's and GW all of the time. Yuk.
Parts of KwaZulu-Natal were transformed into a "winter wonderland" after snowfalls blanketed several areas of the province.
Temperatures plummeted into the low teens, with residents of Kokstad and Giants Castle waking up to 0C.
Durban experienced its coldest September night in recorded history on Friday night.
Snowfalls were reported in Kokstad, Matatiele, Underberg, Mooi River, Bulwer, Himeville and Nottingham Road.
Several roads in the province were closed and people were advised not to go snow hunting, as they risked becoming stuck in traffic and not being able to keep themselves warm.
The road between Harding and Kokstad was closed for most of yesterday, but has since been reopened.
San Diego County has been well below average all summer. Looks like an early winter for us East of San Diego. Downtown does not vary much year round due to ocean influence.
Gary, you appear to still holding to the belief that unless EVERY day in EVERY city in EVERY country on EVERY continent is HOTTER today than it was YESTERDAY that there can be no such phenomenon "average global temperature increase."
Are you really at that point in your thinking?
You continue to actively seek and post ANYTHING that says "we are COLD today here in Kokstad, so that must PROVE That GW is a hoax !!!"
Is that where you are coming from? Anything cold ANYWHERE means global warming cannot be occurring?
No I am disputing the idea that man made GW/CC is a FACT. That the debate is over as pushed by so many in the Media.
I am reading a book about Food. In 1977 George McGovern closed the book on fat saying that was what caused heart disease. He had the American Heart Association on his side and we were all encouraged to eat vegetable fat. Which contained Trans Fatty Acids. So instead of reducing heart attacks they increased. Now we know better because a few scientists questioned the "CONSENSUS".
By the way. I did not buy into the margarine myth EVER. Thankfully I was not one of the victims of the Lipid Hypothesis pushed by politicians.
Man made Global Warming is the same kind of CONSENSUS that will be disproved in a few years.
That is true. Not in the media though. I see very little debate. Several countries including the USA are going forward with carbon credit programs that stink IMO.
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No I am disputing the idea that man made GW/CC is a FACT.
The problem with the article you cited is that it does not support your argument. It doesn't even address anthropogenic GW claims. No cause is mentioned at all other than current weather patterns.
Actually, the event covered in the article is supportive of the global warming or climate change hypothesis (or theory if you prefer). The models predict that this type of unusual, bizarre, and extreme type of weather event is exactly what we should expect from a changing climate. Local and regional weather patterns will change, and unusual weather events will occur. Some parts of the planet will be cooler and some parts will be warmer, but on the whole the whole globe is warming up. The models further suggest that as these differences between warm and cool become more pronounced, and the more different they are from historical patterns, the more of these unusual weather events we will experience and the more extreme they will become.
At least that's how I understand the argument. So, citing such an event ends up supporting the argument you are trying to refute. The whole question of cause becomes moot if those making the claim of human causation can keep pointing to examples of exactly the consequences they say will occur.
We should all just tear down anything that we do not agree with. Will Gore feel the same if the electricity to his mega mansion gets shut off for lack of power generation?
Gore urges civil disobedience to stop coal plants
"If you're a young person looking at the future of this planet and looking at what is being done right now, and not done, I believe we have reached the stage where it is time for civil disobedience to prevent the construction of new coal plants that do not have carbon capture and sequestration," Gore told the Clinton Global Initiative gathering to loud applause.
"I believe for a carbon company to spend money convincing the stock-buying public that the risk from the global climate crisis is not that great represents a form of stock fraud because they are misrepresenting a material fact," he said. "I hope these state attorney generals around the country will take some action on that."
The government says about 28 coal plants are under construction in the United States. Another 20 projects have permits or are near the start of construction.
Scientists say carbon gases from burning fossil fuel for power and transport are a key factor in global warming.
Carbon capture and storage could give coal power an extended lease on life by keeping power plants' greenhouse gas emissions out of the atmosphere and easing climate change.
But no commercial-scale project exists anywhere to demonstrate the technology, partly because it is expected to increase up-front capital costs by an additional 50 percent.
So-called geo-sequestration of carbon sees carbon dioxide liquefied and pumped into underground rock layers for long term storage.
Comments
Not sure what that all means, but this is the summer weather summary report.
If any scientist ever tells you he is going to prove "X," then everything that scientist says after that should be suspect. I will at least give him a nod though since he announced his agenda ahead of time. I expect this from politicians and lawyers and various other advocates, not scientists.
I have heard it argued that that one of the primary reasons we a have this anthropogenic global warming debacle is because of exactly what we are discussing. It seems that a certain national government (UK) approached a certain national organization of scientists (Royal Society) and asked them to prove something. The government, for a variety of political reasons, wanted to vilify coal and oil as sources of energy and promote the increased use of nuclear energy. They had heard that there may be a causal link between CO2 emissions and global warming. So, they approached the scientists and said "Here's a bunch of money for you to prove that industrial CO2 emissions are causing global warming." The scientists said "Ok, will do" and proceeded to provide all the proof the government wanted complete with a host of apocalyptic predictions. Viola. CO2 bad, oil bad, coal bad, OMG we're all gonna die. That bandwagon pulled away from the curb and folks have been jumping on ever since. Now we have practically every government in the world individually and corporately investing billions in reinforcing this proof and blaming global warming if a flea farts the wrong way and calls it the harbinger of the end times, but everything will be ok if you just buy a few more carbon credits.
I am not one who usually likes to spread conspiracy theories, but this sequence of events is pretty well documented and no one really disputes it. I readily admit that the flea fart part might warrant further study though.
Cleared: Jury decides that threat of global warming justifies breaking the law
The threat of global warming is so great that campaigners were justified in causing more than £35,000 worth of damage to a coal-fired power station, a jury decided yesterday. In a verdict that will have shocked ministers and energy companies the jury at Maidstone Crown Court cleared six Greenpeace activists of criminal damage.
Jurors accepted defence arguments that the six had a "lawful excuse" to damage property at Kingsnorth power station in Kent to prevent even greater damage caused by climate change. The defence of "lawful excuse" under the Criminal Damage Act 1971 allows damage to be caused to property to prevent even greater damage – such as breaking down the door of a burning house to tackle a fire.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/cleared-jury-decides-tha- t-threat-of-global-warming-justifies-breaking-the-law-925561.html
Does this mean I will have to carry a weapon to protect my SUV from GW Kooks?
Deeply worrying.
The worst part is my wife and l love all the mystery movies from the BBC. We have all DVDs of Poirot, Foyle, Morse, Marple, Lovejoy, Campion, Peter Wimsey and several I cannot remember. Better than anything on US Television. I hope they continue.
Don't send any GW movies, not interested :sick:
The Great Global Warming Swindle
What I would really like to see or read is a presentation of the points on which there is no disagreement. Strip away all the politically driven conclusions and predictions and conspiracy theories. Of course it would probably only be about a 15 minute presentation.
My dear departed Granny had it right when she used to tell us that we had to "Eat your greens". That lady was smarter than we gave her credit for.
On a car note - my local Honda dealer is offering a brand new Honda Legend for circa GBP23k............that's GBP10k below list. As there's no diesel option I guess they're not selling too well here in Britain - or anywhere in Europe. Still, it's a great deal for such a loaded car compared to the price for a BMW or Merc. A 530i retails for around GBP32k without any extras.
Hope and pray that none of you were too badly affected by "Ike".
Here's the draft plan I have not read the entire plan yet myself, but will work through it.
An initial observation. According to their own audit, transportation represents the lion's share of their greenhouse gas emissions. Guess CA can expect more regulations on car emissions. Whoopee! My knee jerk question is will the Honda Clarity be banned since it emits the worst greenhouse gas of all? :sick:
Hmm. I've seen studies that put the national average at about 20% for motor vehicles including trucks. Now people in CA might drive more, and there might be a higher % of big rigs on the road because of the ports; but I would have to guess just like the rest of the country that the #1 source is electrical generation.
Everytime you fire up the AC, the heat (anyone use natural gas or oil) the TV, ... and you're not pulling your power from nuclear or renewable, then you're creating GHG's.
Well, all those things gotta go!! No wait. We can just quadruple the electric rates from coal or natural gas generated electricity AND ban nuclear. Then send the extra profits to Al Gore. That'll show us!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
A related story. SDG&E is trying to reach their mandate for renewable energy. It seems that environmentalist and others are not interested in helping out. They have blocked several projects to get solar from the desert to the customers. So as usual with CA Legislators and CARB it is all "Pie in the Sky" BS.
SDG&E Likely Won't Meet Deadline As Stirling Project Awaits OK
See P.5. CA must be higher than the global average of about 15% for autos and 40% for electricity.
I also wonder how much CA could reduce GHG emissions if they got all the illegal aliens off the road and out of the country.
OUTLAW LEAF BLOWERS
When he retired, somewhere around the early 90's IIRC, we started asking an acquaintance who still worked with us there at Boeing what Larry was up to. They said he bought a leaf-blower(dunno if his was electric or ghastly) and was enchanted with it. He not only did his own yard he was volunteering to help out some neighbors with their leaves.
I never saw the need to buy one of those contraptions.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Of course, this will make the beloved entrepreneur take responsibility for the negative externalities of his business, and to make a businessman take responsibility is un-American.
There's also a big segment with some kind of mental defect that makes them play with leaf blowers, revving them up over and over again, screwing around. Probably the same mentality as those who rev Harleys in a similar way.
fintail-I think you hit on it as to the leaf-blower thing. The Tim Allen/Harley Davidson crowd with Metallica still blasting in their ears get some kind of off-work enjoyment with these things. Yikes. :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Did you read the draft? I just finished. If that thing is fully implemented, it will represent the greatest regulatory reach of any governmental entity in our history. Literally every sector of your government and every segment of your society will be asked to contribute to the battle against the "growing threat" of global warming. Sure, they call for voluntary measures and market based initiatives, but the amount of legislation and regulation that is likely to come out of this is mind boggling. To say nothing of the litigation that is likely to be spawned.
As far as cars are concerned, the cornerstone of the plan is the implementation of the Pavley efficiency standards, and thus reducing GHG emissions through higher fuel efficiency. Some may recall this. It was in the news some time ago. CA is the only state that is allowed to develop their own efficiency standards for cars and trucks. These usually have exceeded CAFE standards. CA then must ask for permission to enforce the standards. The Pavley standards were recently made even more stringent, and CA asked for permission to implement the new standards. The EPA denied their request, just like they denied permission to implement the original Pavley standards. CA is currently suing the EPA over this. The plan says that if CA is not able to implement the standards, they will require auto manufacturers to make up the difference in GHG emissions via other means and the reductions would have to equal what would have been achieved under Pavley or their cars will not be certified for sale in CA. Precedent for this type of bullying already exists in the differing gasoline and diesel fuel requirements around the country.
When you bottom line that it means that CA's regulatory reach would extend beyond their own borders. I guess that's nothing new though.
That is exactly right. When our utilities double to pay for alternative generation who will the people blame? When they get a huge surcharge on their license renewal as was already done once and Ahnold revoked it. It is going to further erode the economy of a state that is close to bankruptcy. Ahnold refused to sign the budget today. Who will pay for GW in CA. I know that there is a mass exodus of businesses that are not going to be helping the economy. Why stay in CA when TX or some other state is offering big incentives to move out. CA will be another Michigan shortly.
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger says he will veto a state budget passed after a 78-day stalemate, setting up a historic showdown with the Legislature.
As the San Francisco Chronicle explains, the proposed budget sought to close a $17 billion deficit for the fiscal year that began July 1 without new taxes, a demand by Republicans. It did so by requiring all taxpayers to make earlier and larger tax payments to the state government.
Schwarzenegger, a Republican, made the announcement this afternoon. The veto will mark the first time in modern history that a California governor has rejected a veto a state spending plan. The Democrat-controlled Legislature has said it is prepared to override a veto.
" Hope and pray that none of you were too badly affected by "Ike". Thanks, alltorque.
All in all
First they were saying 1-2 weeks and then 2-3 weeks and finally 3-4 weeks before final power restoration . Centerpoint, the infrastructure provider for Harris county, flew in 7,000 workers from other power companies to get things up and running asap. First was health, second was water and/or critical needs last was least damage to power grid going toward most. My office, another county and another power grid infrastructure does not have power so I sit home on Monday. Tuesday as well as I contemplate going to the other side of town to conduct business . Tuesday 5;30 pm, Phone comes back on as well as dsl. Hooray! Office has gotten power so I can go to tomorrow. Double Hooray. Thoughts : I am truly lucky / blessed.They were talking 3-4 weeks and here I am almost 100% restored in in under 4 days.
FEMA, you are another worthless government agency. Two weeks have you known and have you been able to provide ice, water or food on a timely basis ? Nay, although I was not needing of your largesse, you were as typical,
a day late and a dollar short . Fold , you incompetent imbeciles. But alas I am too kind.
Anyway, I have faired far better than most .
It truly was a mean lil sob . To those that think about the weather, they have nothing else to talk about , Shame, shame shame .Your insensitivity is excused as apparently you know not better.The pleasure of your response, Ye who shall not be named. Mdyfu.
Your post prompted me to check my email and there was a note and pics from my buddy. Big relief. They are fine.
Glad to see you came thru in good shape. What in the world is wrong with FEMA? They must have a death wish. I say junk the whole works and start over. Looks like they did not learn anything from Katrina.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You will. :P
Glad you are safe and well. Don't drink the water yet.
FEMA, you are another worthless government agency.
Just one of many failed Social Programs that the Feds have inacted. That one spawned by Jimmy Carter. The real problem is giving people a false sense of security. They somehow think the Feds will save them from any eventuality. If a giant boulder falls from the sky and lands on your head, nothing the Feds can do but scrape up the mess.
I read that the government was paying 100% of the cleanup bill. Is that the state of TX or the Feds?
I haven't heard yet if Al Gore or his beady eyed side kick RFK jr are blaming this one on Global Warming.
I have a gas-powered weed whacker that I borrowed from my uncle sitting in the garage. Used it once. That was enough. That sucker is EVIL! Loud, stinky, and a bit of overkill. One of my roommates hurt his shoulder trying to get it started once. I don't like using it around trees because it'll strip the bark off of them, and also strips paint off the house. I hate to think what it would do to my ankles!
As for getting up leaves, I'm in a country enough area that if you just let them lay, they just sort of disperse and go away on their own, eventually. My other roommate bought a leaf blower (is also has a switch that lets it go from blow to suck) but I think it's electric/battery powered, so not so evil on the environment. I've never bothered to use it. Easier to just rake 'em up, IMO.
CA is the only state that is allowed to set its own emissions standards (by virtue of being the only state that may set its own air quality standards) Other states may adopt the CA standards, but can not develop their own.
The standards set by CA must meet or exceed standards set by the federal gov.
CA must request a waiver from the EPA in order to implement and enforce their standards.
This request was denied by the EPA.
The EPA is under no obligation to grant any such request, but usually just rubber stamps the request. This is the first such request the EPA ever denied.
This is what led to all the lawsuits. This led to the Supreme Court ruling last year that GHG are in fact pollutants and the EPA does have the authority to regulate them as such. The court did not compel the EPA to grant CA their waiver. That is the basis of pending litigation.
So, the courts have found that science has indeed shown evidence that GW is being caused by GHG emissions and that the government has the authority to regulate such emissions but is under no obligation to do so.
The CA plan says that if they do not receive the waiver to enforce Pavley their first backup strategy is to require auto makers to show they have met emission levels equivalent to Pavley before their cars will be certified for sale in CA.
Is it just me or does that sound like if they do not get the waiver they will just enforce the standards anyway?
Their second backup strategy is a feebate program. Buyers of cars that do not meet the emissions standards will pay a fee into a fund that in turn will be used to pay rebates to buyers of cars that do meet the standards. Still strikes me as an end run around the denial of the waiver since the schedules of the program would still be tied to Pavley.
Of course it is all probably moot since it appears the next administration will likely reverse the EPA waiver decision regardless of which candidate is elected.
I have a feeling that a lot of these beauties will be making their way north soon.
Do dealers check for flood damage at the auctions?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
At least their titles do. Katrina was responsible for dumping 500,000 flood damaged cars on the market.
Flood damaged cars: Legal Issues (CarSpace forum)
Are You At Risk for a Flood-Damaged Car? (free CarFax flood check link there).
How To Avoid Buying a Flood-Damaged Car
When was it, again, that the cooling was supposed to start? Sept 1st?
For the 30th consecutive year, the Earth's summer temperature was above average (left), according to data released Tuesday by the National Climatic Data Center. Global temperatures were the ninth-warmest since records began in 1880. (Climatologists define summer as the months of June, July and August.)
Measuring just the globe's land areas, it was the seventh-warmest summer on record.
The summer was unusually warm in most of the USA, Mexico, Europe, Australia, the British Isles, Asia and South America, while cooler-than-average conditions were recorded across the western and southern coast of Alaska, parts of northern Scandinavia and northwestern Russia.
Additionally, the National Snow and Ice Data Center reported Tuesday that Arctic sea ice melted to its second-lowest level on record, just slightly more than the 2007 record-low. Given trends of the past 30 years, likely triggered by man-made global warming, scientists predict that within five to 10 years, the Arctic could be entirely ice-free in the summer.
But a leaf blower? Same thing, it gets windy in SE Arizona and eventually they just blow off somewhere else. I haven't had to rake one time in the year and a half's time since my wife and I bought this house in town. Can't complain about that much, either.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
"They get washed." Right on. As the insurance commercials on tv go, Fresh paint! Check carfax for previous owner registration. Galveston,Kemah, League City, Crystal Beach, Sargent, Winnie, Bolivar, say pass.
It's nice to just take that puppy off of there and dump the cut grass out, and then continue mowing. I know, nothing new in technology, just good, sound old-school technology at work there.
And, yes, the ICE on my lawnmower is contributing to global warming just as much as the loudmouth's over in Hollywood are contributing to GW just by making all of those diddly comments about politico's and GW all of the time. Yuk.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Parts of KwaZulu-Natal were transformed into a "winter wonderland" after snowfalls blanketed several areas of the province.
Temperatures plummeted into the low teens, with residents of Kokstad and Giants Castle waking up to 0C.
Durban experienced its coldest September night in recorded history on Friday night.
Snowfalls were reported in Kokstad, Matatiele, Underberg, Mooi River, Bulwer, Himeville and Nottingham Road.
Several roads in the province were closed and people were advised not to go snow hunting, as they risked becoming stuck in traffic and not being able to keep themselves warm.
The road between Harding and Kokstad was closed for most of yesterday, but has since been reopened.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=14&art_id=vn200809210846158- 70C810928
San Diego County has been well below average all summer. Looks like an early winter for us East of San Diego. Downtown does not vary much year round due to ocean influence.
Gary, you appear to still holding to the belief that unless EVERY day in EVERY city in EVERY country on EVERY continent is HOTTER today than it was YESTERDAY that there can be no such phenomenon "average global temperature increase."
Are you really at that point in your thinking?
You continue to actively seek and post ANYTHING that says "we are COLD today here in Kokstad, so that must PROVE That GW is a hoax !!!"
Is that where you are coming from? Anything cold ANYWHERE means global warming cannot be occurring?
I am reading a book about Food. In 1977 George McGovern closed the book on fat saying that was what caused heart disease. He had the American Heart Association on his side and we were all encouraged to eat vegetable fat. Which contained Trans Fatty Acids. So instead of reducing heart attacks they increased. Now we know better because a few scientists questioned the "CONSENSUS".
By the way. I did not buy into the margarine myth EVER. Thankfully I was not one of the victims of the Lipid Hypothesis pushed by politicians.
Man made Global Warming is the same kind of CONSENSUS that will be disproved in a few years.
I don't know of anyone who posts here who sees man-made GW as "concrete FACT."
There is very little debate that it is a POSSIBLE factor, however. It is definitely a "possible factor", one of many factors.
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The problem with the article you cited is that it does not support your argument. It doesn't even address anthropogenic GW claims. No cause is mentioned at all other than current weather patterns.
Actually, the event covered in the article is supportive of the global warming or climate change hypothesis (or theory if you prefer). The models predict that this type of unusual, bizarre, and extreme type of weather event is exactly what we should expect from a changing climate. Local and regional weather patterns will change, and unusual weather events will occur. Some parts of the planet will be cooler and some parts will be warmer, but on the whole the whole globe is warming up. The models further suggest that as these differences between warm and cool become more pronounced, and the more different they are from historical patterns, the more of these unusual weather events we will experience and the more extreme they will become.
At least that's how I understand the argument. So, citing such an event ends up supporting the argument you are trying to refute. The whole question of cause becomes moot if those making the claim of human causation can keep pointing to examples of exactly the consequences they say will occur.
Gore urges civil disobedience to stop coal plants
"If you're a young person looking at the future of this planet and looking at what is being done right now, and not done, I believe we have reached the stage where it is time for civil disobedience to prevent the construction of new coal plants that do not have carbon capture and sequestration," Gore told the Clinton Global Initiative gathering to loud applause.
"I believe for a carbon company to spend money convincing the stock-buying public that the risk from the global climate crisis is not that great represents a form of stock fraud because they are misrepresenting a material fact," he said. "I hope these state attorney generals around the country will take some action on that."
The government says about 28 coal plants are under construction in the United States. Another 20 projects have permits or are near the start of construction.
Scientists say carbon gases from burning fossil fuel for power and transport are a key factor in global warming.
Carbon capture and storage could give coal power an extended lease on life by keeping power plants' greenhouse gas emissions out of the atmosphere and easing climate change.
But no commercial-scale project exists anywhere to demonstrate the technology, partly because it is expected to increase up-front capital costs by an additional 50 percent.
So-called geo-sequestration of carbon sees carbon dioxide liquefied and pumped into underground rock layers for long term storage.
http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSTRE48N7AA20080924?feedType=RS- S&feedName=environmentNews&rpc=22&sp=true