Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?



  • cruiser69cruiser69 Member Posts: 40
    Great post. A very good breakdown of the market. I am hoping and praying i can purchase a new F-150 and give America one more shot at producing a quality, long term vehicle. My biggest concern is that Ford is not as financially stable as GM and has not pumped the necessary cash into their products to get the quality back up. I own both a 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis and 2007 Hyundai Elantra but have had several American and foreign trucks over the years in the family with perfect maintenance records kept and preformed. The horror stories of the GM and Ford truck transmission problems and fires still concern me, as does the relatively weak Ford truck warranty compared to the competition. Plus the current Silverado and Sierra have the most technical service bullitons out of any other full size truck but surprisingly, Ford, Dodge, Nissan and Toyota have the least.

    I know TSB's are not recalls but the fewer the better on the serious ones and im not talking owners manual corrections. I must be cautious when spending 30 some grand on a half ton. I drive vehicles until its no longer practical for upkeep so i am a long term buyer and loyalty lies with a product that lasts. Ford burned us with the 98-02 Grand Marquis with the defective intake and dint extend the warranty until it was too late. Even the 07 Grand Marquis is still having random electrical issues and considering the car has had few changes over the last 6 years, even the last 25 years, continuing issues with such a simple design is not acceptable.

    The rehash of the Ford Focus also disappoints with lack of refinement, unimpressive fuel economy, and still to be tested IIHS crash tests, the only ones that really matter. I want to really give the F-150 a try but at the very least Ford should match GM's warranty to show faith in the product. Depreciation must be brought under control as well. Even though i keep my vehicles for a long while, if I total a vehicle, its depreciation is a key factor in insurance pay out, although i always get GAP insurance as its cheap piece of mind.

    The 09 F-150 certainly looks the part and i love the many ways to custom build one. I also want a nice ride and QUIET! I will be towing possibly a HI-LO travel trailer or Airstream. So the overall towing will not be too high, allowing me to opt for the more fuel efficient combo. No need for the 10,000 pound overkill, just wastes fuel and ride quality for my needs. I cant wait to drive one. I do expect refinement, better fuel economy, and improved durability. If they deliver? Sold! If not, let em rot! Maybe breaking up Ford and hiring management who knows what the hell they are doing will correct their greedy cost cutting mistakes. Time will tell.
  • 04cad04cad Member Posts: 131
    have to smile every time I hear Ford's ads touting they have the best selling truck for xx years.... Considering that GM makes both the Silverado and Sierra and they are basically the same truck except for some trim pieces, GM has had the title forever. Same for the Colorado and Canyon, S10 and Sonoma. Ford just wishes they were outselling GM (Silverado and Sierra combined). If GM wasn't so hard headed they would have dropped the GMC years ago and Ford couldn't even claim to have the title.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Jan 08 / Jan 07 / +/-
    F-Series...41,125 / 44,919 / -8.4
    Silverado..36,122 / 38,393 / -5.9
    Ram........19,902 / 24,379 / -18.0
    Sierra......13,200 / 13,147 / 0.4
    Tundra......12,073 / 6,321 / 91.0
    Titan........3,692 / 5,226 / -29.4
    Mark LT.....376 / 774 / -51.4

    Bad month all around. The Tundra number is compared to the last of the old model, so still not a fair comparison... and it's much lower than what the new Tundra was doing through most of last year.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Feb 08 Feb 07 +/- CY 2008 CY 2007 +/-
    F-Series / 52,548 / 55,251 / -4.9 / 93,673 / 100,170 / -6.5
    Silverado / 44,096 / 58,696 / -24.9 / 80,218 / 97,089 / -17.4
    Ram / 22,642 / 28,633 / -21.0 / 42,544 / 53,012 / -20.0
    Sierra / 15,088 / 18,140 / -16.8 / 28,288 / 31,287 / -9.6
    Tundra / 14,400 / 9,669 / 43.0 / 26,473 / 15,990 / 62.2
    Titan / 3,794 / 6,058 / -39.9 / 7,486 / 11,284 / -35.0
    Mark LT / 364 / 649 / -43.9 / 740 / 1,423 / -48.0

    Even though Tundra numbers are up, this was still against the old smaller Tundra. They are still well below the pace they need for 200K annual units.

    The American Axle strike has closed another GM plant, although they claim they have a 150-day supply of Silverado/Sierra already at showrooms. Chrysler said they had a 10-day supply of differentials for the HD trucks, then they would have to consider reduction or suspension of production.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Mar 08 Mar 07 +/- CY 2008 CY 2007 +/-
    F-Series / 54,465 / 71,481 / -23.8 / 148,138 / 171,651 / -13.7
    Silverado / 42,561 / 55,626 / -23.5 / 122,779 / 152,715 / -19.6
    Ram / 26,318 / 38,301 / -31.0 / 68,862 / 91,313 / -25.0
    Sierra / 15,919 / 16,503 / -3.5 / 44,207 / 47,790 / -7.5
    Tundra / 14,311 / 13,196 / 8.4 / 40,784 / 29,186 / 39.7
    Titan / 3,869 / 7,563 / -44.9 / 11,355 / 18,847 / -39.0
    Mark LT / 387 / 805 / -51.9 / 1,127 / 2,228 / -49.4

    Tundra numbers still adjusting to the design change.

    In contrast, Hyundai had its best March ever.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I wonder when Toyota figures it's newly designed Tundra going to hit their predicted 200K units per year? Or perhaps by now they figured that was a pipe dream? Even with their rebates, new prices, buying incentives they look to be substantially short of the 200K units. Now if we increase the time period of sales per 1.5 years they may have a chance. :shades:
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    From March 07 to February 08, the Tundra sold over 207,000 units. Even the calendar year 2007, they were at 196 and change. They met their target already.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    LOL!! Hey have you read your post from March 3, 2008?

    Let me quote you:

    Even though Tundra numbers are up, this was still against the old smaller Tundra. They are still well below the pace they need for 200K annual units.

    For the two months after that post they averaged a little over 14K units each month. I would think they would've needed to average more like 24K per month.

    At the pace they are at now at 40K for 3 months that should give them around 160- maybe 170K units for the calender year. Far cry from 200K.

    The Dodge numbers are spooky down 25% yikes.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    And I stand by that statement... they won't make 200K for calendar year 2008. But they did indeed reach their goal in the introductory year - both calendar year 2007 and for the new truck's first 12 months (Mar 07-Feb 08).

    Edit - scroll back to post 73 and see how many units a month the Tundra was moving.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • b2900b2900 Member Posts: 20
    I agree I will find the stats to prove your statement but the Tundra did meet and exceed their goal of 200K units which is the writing on the wall for Ford Annual figures like this are awesome for any new vehicle.

    My Buddy bought a New F-150 not a year ago and he was showing me that his chrome is pitting. Bear in mind I live in Canada where we use alot of road salt, however that said my Tundra has been exposed to the same amount of salt and NO chrome issues... In fact there are NO issues with my Tundra.
    Signed a former Ford owner.

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    The 200K projection was for calender year 2007 which they sold 196,555.

    Their 2008 target goal is still 200K.

    Quote: "Mr. Tetherow is still optimistic about the Tundra's overall sales target for the year, saying, "The sales goal for the Tundra is to still sell 200,000 (units in 2008)."

    Source: Tundra production

    Toyota sets the parameters of measurement for units sold per calender year. Still looks to me they did not attain their goal for 2007 nor will they be anywhere close in 2008.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Funny thing is Toyota is cutting back production on the Tundra and seems to have an abundance of Sequoias lying around too. According to pickuptruck.com Toyota has the capacity to build 300K units per year. When do you think that is going to happen at the current rate of sales?

    While you criticize the sales of F150 using a rusting bumper comparison need I remind you that for March 2008 the F150 outsold the Tundra 3 to 1 and that is with a dated powertrain. Seems like bumpers aren't that important to truck owners.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Shoichiro Toyoda, a member of Toyota's founding family and the company's honorary chairman, visited the company's plant in Princeton, Ind., last October, according to a company executive familiar with the visit. "He didn't come to Indiana to commend our accomplishments; he came because he is concerned about lots of idle capacity we have in Indiana," the executive said.

    Last month Toyota began tapping the brakes on production of vehicles at its San Antonio and Indiana plants to deal with rapidly cooling demand for full-size Tundra pickup trucks and Sequoia SUVs. The extent of the production cuts was not immediately clear.

    The San Antonio plant can produce 200,000 full-size Tundra pickup trucks a year. The company can also produce Tundras in Indiana at a pace of 100,000 vehicles a year. The Indiana plant also produces Sequoias on the same assembly line that produces the Tundra.

    Source link: Toyota feels the pinch
  • b2900b2900 Member Posts: 20
    I have stated here before, let us not forget the Camry, in the early 80's it was very much the same as the Tundra sale 1 to 3 sales. History speaks for itself with Camry sales.Toyota in fact is largest selling auto motive product in the world.

    Ford are literally dumping their trucks so they sell. They are using unreal residuals figures to lease, and the company keeps hemorrhaging billions of dollars in losses. The results are the loyal Ford customers are not getting realistic trade in values when trading. One has to ask how long can Ford's fatal business plan last? Do they have a nice truck.. Yes. Are they building better trucks .. I truly feel they are... Have they loss the loyalty of many of their former clients? That I will not answer, I rather see what the sales figures dictate in the future.

    Signed a former Ford Truck owner.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    While I have never owned a F150 and don't plan to in the future. I am surprised at how they have retained their sales lead.

    The Camry is a car. If you haven't noticed on this and other topics on Edmunds that truck owners are a loyal bunch. Some, like you may not have that loyalty. I would venture to say though reading through the topics here that Ford has a fierce following and not one that would give up as easily as the competition for the Camry.

    The introduction of the Tundra was one that Toyota hadn't planned with the engine, torque converter, tailgate issues as listed at tundrasolutions. With decreasing sales and Toyota looking at alternatives for their Indiana plant I am wondering where Tundra sales are going.
  • b2900b2900 Member Posts: 20
    Yes Camry is a car... so was the Ford Taurus, Ford use to boasting the largest selling car in North America. This blog is about TUNDRA eventually doing the same The point, 200K Tundra sales in the first year is incredible. Now beware of throwing stones in a glass house with issues regarding the new production TUNDRA'S If you look back on this blog, you will see that Ford F-150 that has been produced for years has had enough recalls than Ford cares to admit. That said, and yes its a car the Ford Focus has the renowned record of being the highest recalled car ever produced and now the Mustang is about to take that crown away.

    A former Ford Truck and Mustang owner
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I could've sworn for the last two years Toyota led the automakers in recalls.

    That is the ones that they did recall unlike the sludge issue. LOL!!
  • farmerrubefarmerrube Member Posts: 33
    Sludge is the way of the forien ones now. Them ones is know for bustin, rustin, and sludge, thats for sure! How come them forien ones always get that sludge now? That sludge sure is a mystery now, thats for sure! Do them tundra ones come with that hitch yet? Heard them taligates were bustin... so no hitch for them ones. Is that true for them ones? Good luck on this one now!
  • 05f15005f150 Member Posts: 4
    I'll agree that the Camry is a car but by the same logic so was the Flintstones' car, and the same for the Tundra. The only thing it brings to the table is fuel economy and even Toyota couldn't pull that off. I own an F-150 and have not had any recalls, at least not major ones. the bottom line for Ford other than building a solid truck is to be built by and for Americans. And PLEASE Tundra taking Ford's spot as No. 1, all the Tundra is is a photo copy of the F-150, Silverado, and Ram mixed together with toyota's name on it', even there marketing campaign with the toyota trucks logo oddly resembles the "Built Ford Tough" logo. The focus... your going to use the focus to represent Ford, the focus was built ford weak for those tree huggin hippies who'd follow Al Gore to the ends of the Earth and would buy that or what ever the smaller Toyota is called.
  • automan22automan22 Member Posts: 2
    I don't think Ford will have a problem holding that title. I own a GMC, but Ford makes great trucks
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Agreed on the F150. Though a lot of people are speculating if Ford will still be around and not the F150. Speculation is that the owners (Ford) aren't too happy with the way things are going and may just throw in the towel hoping some other conglomerate will buy them out.
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Member Posts: 118
    Tundra blows by GMC in sales. NEXT!
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Mar 08 / Mar 07 / +/- / CY 2008 / CY 2007 / +/-
    F-Series / 44,813 / 56,692 / -21.0 / 192,951 / 228,343 / -15.5
    Silverado / 37,231/ 49,436 / -24.7 / 160,010 / 202,151 / -20.8
    Ram / 24,206 / 31,503 / -23.0 / 93,068 / 122,816 / -24.0
    Sierra / 13,196 / 16,849 / -21.7 / 57,403 / 64,639 / -11.2
    Tundra / 13,350 / 14,200 / -6.0 / 54,134 / 43,386 / 24.8
    Titan / 2,407 / 4,922 / -54.9 / 13,762 / 23,769 / -42.7
    Mark LT / 385 / 678 / -43.2 / 1,512 / 2,906 / -48.0

    This is the first individual month that Tundra can be compared apples-to-apples, and in line with everyone else, they're down from last year.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    154 units is not "blowing by"...

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Forgot to change the header in my template... those are indeed the April numbers.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • snowbugcasnowbugca Member Posts: 5
    By the way if you combine the Sierra and Silverado they out sell the ford. Ford dropped the Mercury truck so they can say they are number 1. I think GM should drop one truck too. Jim (Oshawa)
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Sorry I'm late, but these numbers aren't anything to write home about anyway...

    May 08 / May 07 / +/- / CY 2008 / CY 2007 / +/-
    F-Series / 42,973 / 61,939 / -30.6 / 235,924 / 290,282 / -18.7
    Silverado / 37,020 / 63,790 / -42.0 / 197,030 / 265,941 / -25.9
    Ram / 19,727 / 31,327 / -37.0 / 112,795 / 154,143 / -27.0
    Sierra / 13,362 / 19,467 / -31.4 / 70,765 / 84,106 / -15.9
    Tundra / 12,144 / 17,727/ -31.5 / 66,278 / 61,113 / 8.5
    Titan / 2,163 / 4,899 / -57.5 / 15,925 / 28,668 / -45.3
    Mark LT / 309 / 670 / -53.9 / 1,821 / 3,576 / -49.1

    Front page story in this week's issue of Automotive News notes that Ford
    and Chrysler could be in deep trouble with the launch of the new F150
    and Ram. I would say Ford is in worse shape, as they bank far more on
    the F-Series and the new F150 was going to come in 7 different trim
    levels, from plain to three luxury levels including the
    "above-Lincoln" Platinum.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    To help us track the change in market trend away from trucks, you should also include sales numbers for the Toyota Camry.

    What I want to see is the price of gas stabilize. Remember we have gone up over a dollars a gallon since Feburary 2008.

    Once gas prices stabilize, then I think truck sales will stabilize. Also because Ford will be introducing higher MPGs on the 2009 thanks to 6 speed transmissions, there may be some tradeins from people who drive a truck for their living.

  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Feel free to add comments to my blog post regarding the F-Series sales slump: The Big Rigs - How the mighty have fallen

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    dismal, as expected...

    Jun 08 / Jun 07 / +/- / CY 2008 / CY 2007 / +/-
    F-Series 38,789 / 65,156 / -40.5 / 274,713 / 355,438 / -22.7
    Silverado 34,290 / 44,955 / -23.7 / 231,320 / 310,896 / -25.6
    Ram 16,149 / 31,114 / -48.0 / 128,944 / 185,257 / -30.0
    Sierra 12,409 / 15,187 / -18.3 / 83,174 / 99,293 / -16.2
    Tundra 10,238 / 21,727/ -47.0 / 76,516 / 82,840 / -7.0
    Titan 1,260 / 4,405 / -71.4 / 17,185 / 33,073 / -48.0
    Mark LT 405 / 756 / -46.4 / 2,226 / 4,332 / -48.6

    Toyota is finding out just how fickle Americans can be.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Nissan Titan down 48%. That makes Nissan look like they discontinued the Titan.

    Looks like the new Ram isn't doing so good either. It's a no brainer for Ford to delay the intro of the 2009 F150.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    The new Ram isn't out yet... production doesn't begin until September 8. This is all the current design for Dodge.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516

    Jul 08 Jul 07 +/- CY 2008 CY 2007 +/-
    F-Series 44,829 56,488 -20.6 319,542 411,926 -22.4
    Silverado 32,989 46,997 -29.8 264,309 357,893 -26.1
    Ram 21,328 29,312 -27.0 150,272 214,569 -30.0
    Sierra 11,596 15,892 -27.0 94,770 115,185 -17.7
    Tundra 13,413 23,150 -42.1 89,929 105,990 -15.2
    Titan 3,972 5,708 -30.4 21,157 38,781 -45.4
    Mark LT 488 758 -35.6 2,714 5,090 -46.7

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Aug 08 Aug 07 +/- CY 2008 CY 2007 +/-
    F-Series 40,429 69,220 -41.6 359,971 481,146 -25.2
    Silverado 55,765 67,486 -17.4 320,074 425,379 -24.8
    Ram 24,974 32,309 -23.0 175,246 246,878 -29.0
    Sierra 20,297 23,574 -13.9 115,067 138,759 -17.1
    Tundra 17,401 18,919 -8.0 107,330 124,909 -14.5
    Titan 5,871 6,985 -15.9 27,028 45,766 -40.9
    Mark LT 562 768 -26.8 3,276 5,858 -44.1

    Ford can't be happy that Chevy kicked their butt last month.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • iontrapiontrap Member Posts: 139
    Where can I find the monthly sales numbers for the Toyota Sequoia?
  • folsomjack2folsomjack2 Member Posts: 4
    beat! I need a basic truck, traded a basic Hyundai Santa fe and got this! I hope Dodge stays in Business as this will last me the rest of my life!
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I hope Dodge stays in Business as this will last me the rest of my life!

    Are you 84 years old? At those prices Dodge will need government intervention or they will be out of business in a couple of years.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    Actually, that's about right. A base 1500 regular cab shortbed 4x2 has an MSRP of $22,1 and an invoice of $19,8. There's currently up to 7-large in rebates available and another $1400 in factory-to-dealer, so $11,5 sounds about right from invoice. It's all to clear the old 1500s off the lots before the redesigned 1500 hits the street in a few weeks.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    It's OT here in Pickups, but... :)

    Sequoia sales are up, but it's kind of a false increase as the model was changing to the new Tundra chassis from the old one a year ago.

    Aug 08 - 3,195
    Aug 07 - 1,717 +86.1%
    2008 - 22,562
    2007 - 16,299 +37.8%

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    It's no wonder that Toyota closed a plant for retooling and shifted production on the Sequoia and Tundra. With sales of 3K per month the dealers must be loaded on those things.
  • folsomjack2folsomjack2 Member Posts: 4
    The msrp was 23,050. so 11,525, what I paid was zactly half! And with the warranty and a GREAT local dealer 3 miles down the road, I could NOT pass!S far I love it and will be trying to drive for milage if it is possible. A long time tech friend says for now DO NOT LUG the engine. Forget 6th until 55 at least! Great forum, i enjoy helping and having help available!
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    This was just a classic beating

    Sep 08 Sep 07 +/- CY 2008 CY 2007 +/-
    F-Series 32,727 56,065 -41.6 392,698 537,211 -26.9
    Silverado 50,428 52,480 -3.9 370,502 477,859 -22.5
    Ram 20,812 30,100 -31.0 196,058 276,978 -29.0
    Sierra 18,744 18,445 1.6 133,811 157,204 -14.9
    Tundra 7,696 19,571 -59.0 115,026 144,480 -20.4
    Titan 2,872 5,193 -44.7 29,900 50,959 -41.3
    Mark LT 383 795 -51.8 3,659 6,653 -45.0

    Chevy and GMC were helped big time by GM Employee pricing.

    If Ford doesn't get their act together, the F-Series could fall to
    second place for the first time in about 30 years.

    Toyota... right truck, 3 years too late.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • osellrosellr Member Posts: 6
    learn to spell and before you form an opinion, go find a tundra and put it "to work" on your farm and i guarantee you that you will be surprised. just because your a conservative farmer doesn't mean you HAVE to drive an american truck. the step that tundras had made in the past 4 years when it comes to size, power, and towing, has been bigger than fords step up in the past 10 years. be flexible and just because all the rednecks are so into american automobiles, doesn't mean you'll look weird driving a nice tundy around the farm.
  • farmerrubefarmerrube Member Posts: 33
    Folks who work that tundra in them fields is bustin them ones quick! We need full size trucks for haulin them tobacco trains now... facts is facts! Them forien pumpkins be popin if put too that haul now! Never heard a single tell on them tundra ones workin any field... just folks workin that hi-way with them shiney ones. They lack haul for farmin and such. What say? Any folks here workin that tundra in them fields? Good luck on this one now!
  • ashertruckingashertrucking Member Posts: 2
    I can't afford a new truck. Prices are way to high for any of them. I buy well used trucks and drive them up and down the road till they don't go anymore. I will continue to buy the 99 1/2 to 03 F350 SD 7.3 L till I can't find one anymore. As for nissan and Toyota I wouldn't buy one of those if I had the money and used a 1/2 ton. Sorry but I support my fellow American workers and American companies. I know Ford's sales aren't up like everyone elses but they also don't base thier company off of small little cheap cars. Thier company is built around trucks real trucks. The ones you see in farmers fields and on the road pulling trailers. If we as a country keep buying imports where will our kids work?
  • osellrosellr Member Posts: 6
    I would have kept buying American trucks but i switched to the tundra because it's more reliable. Tundras can do anything a F-150, a silverado, or a ram can do, except with more horsepower and torque. Tundras can tow 10,000 pounds like its nothing, and you can drop 1,600 pounds of anything in the bed and the truck will still have the get up and go like it does if it were dry.
  • morganvmorganv Member Posts: 49
    maybe its just coincidence but everytime i take my camry in for service i see a tundra with the transmission apart. maybe i wouldnt notice it but a friend has a 3 year old tundra and the teansmssion been apart 2 times.
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