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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?



  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    Prior to your purchasing your new Tundra. Were you aware of all the problems that have been posted on the net with regards to the cracking welds on the tailgate, the failing camshafts, the defective torque converters that are being replaced as I post this? or the peeling dash paint? or the thin paint that chips? I mean the lists goes on and on.

    Were you aware of these defects and still purchased a Tundra?

    If so I truely wish you luck on your new truck!!!! :sick:
  • mule4mule4 Posts: 36
    Were you aware of the problems chev.,gm. & ford were having as the same problems for years & still say they are normal before you bought one?.I've had both with the problems now I have a tundra had trouble with tork converter was fix Quick. If it had been the other brands it still would'nt be fixed.When have you ever heard a exec.of gm.or ford say his Co. was ashame of the Quality ? NEVER .At least toyota has admitted it They will fix it.As the exec. of gm. & ford are still in denial.
  • I bet that exec. fella aint workin them farms... is he is admittin to that one too? How does one work that tundra with no tailgate? We need ones that last long long and work hard on that farm, thats for sure! If them ones is rustin and bustin, how is that lastin long? We got us a 52 GMC that is still workin that farm hard.. it has lasted, thats for sure! Has anyone worked that tundra yet? Good luck on this one now!
  • Toyota is the new GM. Actually, since Toyota's quality has declined, they have become the old GM. They take care of problems when they are forced to. The Toyota engine sludge issue required a class action lawsuit to provide relief for 3.5 million Toyota customers.

    The Tacomas had the same weak tailgates as the Tundra, and it took them three years to fix it:

    Now their new big, badass Tundra truck has weak tailgates and weak sheetmetal in the beds. It may even be worse than the Tacoma. Toyota didn't learn anything - talk about dense. This gives "moving forward" a whole new meaning. Why did they put the same weak tailgate on their new badass truck that's "changing it all"? Toyota's response has apparently been to tell customers the tailgate was not designed to support weight. In other words, these trucks aren't intended to be anything but suburban grocery getters, despite the marketing to the contrary.

    I predict Tundra sales are going to decline into the crapper like the Nissan Titan did. The people these trucks appeal to are watching their house prices implode and gas prices go up. They can't justify to their wives spending money on a grocery getting gas hog that doubles as a desk job commuter.
  • Hell, ah fathered fave chillun that ah know of on the tailgate of a '67 Chevy. Now these Tayota fellers is makin truck fer us you cant father no chillun on. How's a feller sposed ta make chillun ta work the farm if the tailgate collapses when y'all is makin hawt love to Mary Jo?

    Seems ta me these Texas Tayota fellers ud know better.
  • My family have always owned a foreign(Japan) cars/trucks. We've had a Toyota, Honda, Isuzu(Trooper), Mazda and Subaru. I personally have never owned a Japanes car or truck that is made or is partly made in the U.S. It has nothing to do with anti American product loyalty but simply based on statistical reliability and experience. Believe me, I've gotten my money's worth. Things have drastically changed over the last plus decade. There's hardly any Japanese car or truck out there that is solely made in Japan. They're all mostly made here in the U.S. The reliability problem is now surfacing. I have to agree that the quality is not as good here in the U.S. as it is in Japan. This is based in my honest but very sad and disappointing observation.

    That said, this new Toyota Tundra is very dissapointing to say the least considering all the hype. Nobody in my family will even come close to buying this new truck. It's not the same old Toyota. This is an very new American made truck from top to bottom. Toyota wanted to capture the American big $$ truck market but they should've built the truck in Japan first and give it a thorough run before bringing it here to the U.S. This is an absolute flop. Toyota is relying on their badge but this will only hurt them in the long run. I do applaud Toyota for admitting the flaws and fixing the problems as they surfaces. But they really rushed this whole thing. This Tundra is not your standard Toyota quality product. Toyota loyalist will defend this truck but solely based on their brainwashed trust on Toyota. Can you blame them? Heck, I'd like to be considered smart too by buying a trusted reliable brand. This is not the case with the new Tundra however in my opinion. This is way too new of a truck, made from a country with a manufacturing system/culture that leads to mediocre product at times. But this is another topic.

    Now, to say that the Tundra will be worse than the Titan is still up in the air. Only time will tell. Nissan has been horrible in fixing the Titan. There has been complaints galore with Nissan dealers accross the country in addressing break issues and rear diff problems. Maybe it's the individual dealers and not Nissan per se but still it's still Nissan dealers. The new 08 Titan does appears to be promising as the front rotors has been enlarged. It's about time. It only took what, 4 years to hopefully get it right. That's very disappointing. For now, if I were to buy a truck, I'd have to go with either a Chevy or GMC. I'm going to wait til the end of the summer next year to make my final decision. Any of the Big 3 doesn't exactly have an excellent resume with Consumer Reports in terms of reliability.

    It's really good to see an American car/truck maker bettering the Japanese. But, is it really that an American manufacturer better or only appears to be so because the Japanese has gotten drastically bad? Toyota Tundra, bigger the hype, the bigger the flop.
  • We need one with haul. One that can haul and last long. Workin that farm will tell the truth on this one, thats for sure. Now we hear folks tellin on how they have sludge? First was them t100 ones... well them pumpkins went pop if you worked them ones any. Then came them littler tundra ones... well, them ones lacked haul, and had them same t100 pumpkins. Now comes them bigger tundra ones, but they got tailgates bustin? Well they sure don't sound like good ones for workin that farm now. As for that fella with all them forien ones... where is they now? Rustin and bustin, that is the way of them forien ones. Look about, where is all them forien ones gone? Yet we still workin that 52 GMC on that farm. Long lastin and hard workin, that is how them big3 ones are, thats for sure. Good luck on this one now!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    Glad you had your torque converter fixed under warranty. What about your rear propeller shaft? Are you one of those affected by the recall? Less than perfect was the term used for GM products, I see Toyota qualifies for that too. You ever check to see what your frame looks like past the cab? I think you will be surprised.

    BTW, ever seen the movie Gung Ho?

    Gung Ho
  • mule4mule4 Posts: 36
    You know i used to own all big three would'nt buy anything else. The Dodge diesel was the best .I bought my wife a new catl. sls $45000.00 car nothing but trouble.Then i bought a new chev. z71 off road all kinds of troublems all major. It was all ways a fuss to get any thing fixed. Factory rep. was a sorry a$$ hole Did'nt want to put a new rear in it. I had to go for the lemon law before they would do it .He said i was going to have live with it before he was made to fix it.I still did'nt get the trans. fixed got tired of the hassel. The car & truck was $79000.00 I got $10500.00 For it 3 Yrs. old was as clean as new.Got $19000.00 For the truck 30000 Mi.& clean.So you should know now why i bought the toyota It may have trouble but they will fix it.You should know about the gm. they are having problems too Do you ever bash them I believe you are in denial off any thing is wrong with them.So good luck with your truck.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    WOW!!!!!, before you delete this message or someone else will,(kcram) please have another drink and post another message.
  • Folks is tellin that them tundra ones is breakin... but that factory will fix it now. But can that factory fix them ones from "not lastin and workin a long time"? Look around... how many of them forien ones do you see that are still workin hard? The big3 ones... well you see them workin hard... even the old ones. We got us a 52 GMC, and we still work that one hard everyday now! On farms all about, you see them big3 ones workin hard.. even old ones. But how many of them hi-lux or t100 ones is even around now? Facts is facts on this one now. Good luck on this one now!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    I own a '02 GMC Yukon Denali that had one service visit under warranty to replace a shock sensor. No problems after that. I also own a '05 Titan CC which I had replaced the brake pads within the first 200 miles with ceramic and never suffered warped rotors. What was disappointing was replacing tires at 26K along with the rear brakes. You would think that they should last at least through the warranty period.

    I post a lot on the Sierra/Silverado boards as my experience with my '00 Silverado left me pretty much an expert as to what could go wrong. My service folder at the dealership was over 2" thick and I had qualified for buy back. Unfortunate for me I had over $10K in mods in the truck which I had no intention of removing so settled for the 5 year/100K no deductible Major Guard extended warranty which GM provided free of charge.

    That being said I also own much to my demise a '03 Ranger which IMO is an underpowered POS. I have no brand loyalty. I don't bash any make. I also don't believe that Toyotas that are manufactured in the USA are as reliable as their counterparts manufactured previously in Japan where Toyota pretty much oversees their suppliers as well as the assembly of their product. Here is seems that their suppliers are dropping the ball and their quality is suffering because of it. They are also at a lost as to what to do with their suppliers as Dr. W. Edward Deming never had a plan to deal with subpar suppliers. (Toyota's quest for quality was modeled after Dr. Deming and the Deming award but that's another story).

    The first generation Tundra manufactured in '99 and sold as a '00 model had no where near the problems of the current '07 Tundra. You could blame first year problems but still they exceed the '00. I won't speculate as to why. Bottom line, any Toyota loyalist who based his experience with a previous "quality" Toyota truck, in my opinion, will be in for a rude awakening.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    Motor Tread announced today just after 1PM that the 2008 Tundra is the truck of the year!

    I do stand to be corrected for the sales stats. By the end of this month Toyota could possibly see 200 thousand trucks sold in the year of 2007 All other pick up sales were down Tundra had an increase When comparing current Tundra sales against its former, smaller self, only the first two months of 2007 were lower than their comparable periods in 2006. Then, starting in March, Tundra sales exploded, and were up over 120% (i.e., more than double) in May, June, and July compared to the same period in 2006. In fact, if Toyota sells just 18,518 Tundras in August 2008 (it sold 23,150 in July), it will have already matched its total sales for 2006. Through the first seven months of 2007, Toyota has sold an average of 15,141 Tundras per month; extrapolating that through December 31, and Toyota is on pace to sell 181,692 trucks, which is almost 46% more than it did in 2006 (but short of its sales goal of 200,000 trucks in its first year). However, if Toyota can sell July's total of 23,150 trucks per month for the rest of 2007, it will have sold 221,740, and blown away its goal. I don't see any signs of the juggernaut slowing down; sales have increased in each month the truck has been on sale, so meeting their goals - which seemed laughable in the truck's first few months - seems almost inevitable now.

    Against its competition, the Tundra's sales are even more impressive. The full size pickup segment is down 4.7% so far in 2007, and every competitor is showing negative sales year to date but Toyota, which is up 56.5%. It's a tough market in which to sell a full size V8 powered pickup with the housing market slowing down and high gas prices, which makes this feat even more impressive. So, whose lunch is the Tundra eating, if its sales are way up in a falling segment.
  • That MotorTrend is for cars now... what about us folks who work them trucks? Can that tundra work that farm without bustin? Seem to recall that little tundra, that t100, and even them hilux ones got that same award from MotorTrend... yet none of them worked no farms or lasted long. What does that tell on this award now? Good luck on this one now!
  • mule4mule4 Posts: 36
    I doubt your a farmer . if you were you would'nt have time to be on a computer as much as you are. I was a cattle farmer I sure did'nt have the extra time.About that 1952 gm .I had a 1952 1/2 chev.power glide trans I think that was the yr. model.. With most of the older gms. rusted out bad, fenders, floor boards door jams to name a few. they had that problem several years.Your's problem not any different.The tundra will do all i want it to do.Thats all that matters I paid for it my self It may not be the best but it sure is better than the 2004 z71 I had time will tell.
  • Anyone with half a brain could tell you that the Tundra is the best truck by far.
    I would never need a magazine to tell me something so obvious. I guess these anti Toyota people need more proof about who builds the best truck. The Canadians also named the Tundra best truck as well.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    Anyone with half a brain could tell you that the Tundra is the best truck by far.

    you are correct, anyone with only half a brain probly would think the tundra is best by far
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
  • Motor Tread announced today just after 1PM that the 2008 Tundra is the truck of the year!

    Motor Trend picked the Silverado for 2007. The 2008 Silverado is essentially the same as the 2008 Tundra, except we now know how meaningless the Truck of the Year award is. They should have jumped on the Tundra tailgate and watched it crack, or taken into account the 2007 Tundra recalls. Oh well, Motor Trend never picks the same truck twice.

    However, if Toyota can sell July's total of 23,150 trucks per month for the rest of 2007, it will have sold 221,740, and blown away its goal.

    They need to sell something like 23,150 in December just to reach the 200K goal. That could be difficult, because they only sold 14,988 last month.

    I don't see any signs of the juggernaut slowing down; sales have increased in each month the truck has been on sale, so meeting their goals - which seemed laughable in the truck's first few months - seems almost inevitable now.

    The 200K goal is not inevitable. It's reachable if they up the already large incentives on the Tundra, but who knows if they're doing that?

    Against its competition, the Tundra's sales are even more impressive. The full size pickup segment is down 4.7% so far in 2007, and every competitor is showing negative sales year to date but Toyota, which is up 56.5%.

    Well, let's see. Up 56.5% for Toyota means they sell about, what, 5,000 extra Tundras a month? That's what Ford/GM sell in a day or two. It's not hard to grow sales like that when you develop a new model and have a huge marketing campaign. They spent $100 million to sell 60K more trucks this year. That works out to $1,600 per truck. Considering the incentives of up to $4600 they have offered to move these things all year, they are spending even more, not to mention that shiny new Texas factory they are officially ashamed of.

    So, whose lunch is the Tundra eating, if its sales are way up in a falling segment.

    Their own previous Tundra owners, mainly:

    This article states 10% conquest rate on trade-ins from the Big 3:

    I think they blew their own math, and it's actually about 20%. Any way you slice it, the Tundra conquest sales appear pretty insignificant.
  • Whoops, I forgot that Motor Trend TOTY is that absurd award that only applies to "new" trucks.

    To make the award even more absurd this year, they compare the Tundra to the only real new trucks this year, a few heavy duty 2500s and 3500s, and F450s if you can believe that. It's apples and oranges. Then they slam the big Chevy for it's fuel economy, and the F-450 for feeling "enormous and ponderous"? Of course it is compared to the Toyota, you morons, it's a totally different class of vehicle!

    No buyer in their right mind would ever be comparing the Toyota to these trucks.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    I remember thinking just like you 20 years ago about the Camry, Thinking why would people buy this car, well Camry is major seller if not the highest selling car in the market. In one year the Tundra sales figures are very impressive to say the least. If the Camry did what it has, the Tundra could very well eventually be in the same sales figures in the future. I sincerely am not here to kick stones rather I would like nothing better than seeing a better truck/car and in my opinion the Big Three is being challenged and that is good. If you are a Ford/ Dodge/ GM buyer rest assured your next truck will be built better and perhaps have a better resale value as a result of the Toyota Tundra raising the scale. That’s not bad now is it?
  • We work that tabacco farm with them trucks.. and we work them trucks hard now. Never head of no cattle farm now... was you meanin to say cattle ranch? That 52 GMC sure aint rustin or bustin, and we still workin it hard now. As for them tundra ones... we heard folks tellin of them tailgates bustin off, what say too this? How is them tunda ones gettin awarded for bustin tailgates? So much for them awards. We need ones that work hard and last long, not ones gettin awards from them magazines now. When is that forien factory goin figure this one out now? If your workin them farms and such, best stick with them big3 ones, thats for sure. Good luck on this one now!
  • Such nonsense posts here lambasting Toyota and its great truck, Tundra. It takes an adult to admit one has been "had." And Toyota has done just that to the GM truck world. The Tundra is a great vehicle. ALL Toyota has to do now is RAISE their cash incentives and they'll blow GM right out of the water. But they're afraid of the anti-Asian/Japanese back lash however.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    "But they're afraid of the anti-Asian/Japanese back lash however. "

    You've got to be kidding right?

    "ALL Toyota has to do now is RAISE their cash incentives and they'll blow GM right out of the water."

    What?? $6K isn't enough? Now I understand where the Kool-Aid comments come from... :shades:
  • Well, the Tundra, and it's predecessor have been around 16 years now, without makiking nary a dent in the domestic full-sized market. Toyota finally learned that 7/8ths of a truck wasn't going to cut it, so, they came out with this bloated Tundra, with some apparent intial success. People are discovering that if you actually want to use these trucks, however, they aren't up to the task, just like the predecessors weren't.

    I'm guessing Toyota won't come out with a bed with enough sheet metal and a truck frame up to the task of actually being used coupled with a totally debugged truck until 2010/2011. If they can deal with the coming sales decline in 2008/2009 without giving up on their quest, they'll need until 2016 at least to live down the bad reputation the current trucks are building up and lots of bucks for marketing. With very high loyalty rates for the Big 3, especially Chevy, it will take some suicidal moves or lack of competition by them, or a long, slow grind by Toyota to ever get close to becoming #1. They'll have to be consistently better, but they haven't displayed that they are up for it in the full-sized truck segment for the past 16 years.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    Interesting, your assumption is that Toyota which are close to becoming one of the biggest auto manufactures in North America with sales based on customer satisfaction, quality and higher resale will not be able to produce a full size pick up?

    Second you state that the Toyota pickups of the past are not up to the task when it comes to work? Why then has the Tacoma still such a hot selling truck with one of the highest resale values in history. I drove a 2006 Tundra 4x4 and I sold it privately in one day. It did lots of work, pulled my 26 foot travel trailer, my 20 foot boat, Numerous times in the mud and I did not have one issue with it.

    Consumers report is as follows. .htm
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    Consumer auto guide by how stuff works? What is that suppose to be?

    2006 Tundra is a winner compared to the 2007. I would've kept it if I were you. At least you know that your torque converter will last, your tailgate won't crack nor do you have to worry about your driveshaft being recalled.
  • I'm an adult, damn it! I'm (almost) 40.

    I absolutely agree that Toyota is way better company than GM but this particular truck is not up to the usual Toyota standard. As for autos, Toyota is great like Honda, but this new Tundra is all hype as of now. It definitely has the potential to be great but it is too new and has some issues that need resolving. The Big 3 should not relax. This is all good for us comsumers.

    But for now, if I have to buy, I'd go with a Chevy or GM. Maybe in a few years, Toyota will surpass GM.
  • mule4mule4 Posts: 36
    Why don'.t all of the folks that hate toyota so bad go look at the problems gm & chev. are having on their forums The 2007 & 2008 Are having as many things going wrong that toyota is having.Maybe you all don.t want to know.Your not going to change anybodys mind.Lots of people had rather drive a tunder with problems than gm & chev with their problems. You all act like a bunch of kids Saying mine is better than yours THINK ABOUT IT. Men or kids
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    The arguments made against the Tundra is to assist people in deciding whether to pull the trigger on a Tundra or not. I've seen numerous posts where potential buyers are now waiting to see how Toyota addresses the problems surrounding the Tundra. I don't see anything childish in that.
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