Honda Odyssey vibration

tsais

Mine is a 2006 EX-L with only 28,000 miles one it. Lee's Summit (MO) Honda has replaced the engine mount, transmission fluid flushed, but I am still having the juddering problem at 1400-1500 rpm, huming noise at 2100 rpm, and pining sound at start up. The service manager at Lee's Summit Honda told me that I am giving him a hard time because I keep reporting different problems (window noise, vibrations, door ratting, windshield molding deformed, and so on) with my Odyssey.

You said your dealer pulled out the bulletin that ssaid the torque converter needed to be repladed? Could you please share the bulletin information with us?

Thanks.

tsais

Is it true that Honda offers 5 year/60,000 mile transmission warranty from 2006 model and newer?

sreiss

tsais said: "Could you please share the bulletin information with us? "

See post 188: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1085e1/187#MSG187

4grandsons

I'm afraid our 2007 Odyssey had developed the same issue with power steering reservoir, but after living through the torque converter and the brake master cylinder, all before 49,000 miles I was not willing to give Honda the benefit of the doubt any longer. Reading posts on multiple forums and customer reviews on sites such as Edmunds.com and KBB.com about other problems including engine mounts and rack-and-pinion steering I was not comfortable with the possibility of continued problems after the 60,000 mile powertrain warranty expired. You were wise to get an extended warranty. Please let us know if the torque converter replacement fixes the problem, as others have noticed, it seems to be a temporary fix at best.

robho

Here is the service bulletin and it is the same one the service rep had on the counter when my problem was diagnosed. (funny, I never received a copy in the mail) I will share the result of my service as soon as I can.

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A09-053.PDF

robho

The new torque converter was installed and the transmission is smooth at all speed ranges again. I am once again a satisfied Odyeesy owner.

Thank you to the people at Martin Honda of Newark, DE. They did a GREAT job!

bunnyart

So I read all of your problems about Honda Odysseys,.
We have a 2008 H.O. EXL. 29000 miles. Just 2 weeks ago the engine light came on and the VSA light. The car started to shake and vibrate and also felt like something in the gas...not flowing thru properly to the engine???? Sorry I dont know anything about cars.
The biggest problem is that we are military overseas( Italy). There is a Honda dealer that I went last week. He hooked the car up the computer and said I have water in my gas tank....that's why the car was shaking and vibrating. When I drive it and try to accelerate sometime the car starts shaking and no matter how hard I am pushing the gas pedal its just slows down and shakes. Anyway. we live on the military base and we have an Autoport where they fix your car, so I took it thinking its the bad gas. They emptied my gas tank, washed it out. Also they hooked up the car to their computer and it said...I need new spark plugs and ignition coils!!! ????
I am so confused now after reading all these posts about torque converter???
Can the computer tell you exactly what is wrong with your car?
Unfortunately the Honda dealer here in Italy doesn't even have the parts for Odyssey...and I called honda about the warranty but they were not helpful at all.
I am kind of lost here..... any ideas?

my07

From my experience the torque converter issue does not make the check engine light come on. Also, during the first several visits I had to the dealer complaining about the transmission, they were not able to tell anything from the computer.

If you indeed had water in your gas you most likely still have water trapped somewhere. If it was my car I would try and add some gas dryer. If you can't find any there I would add some isopropyl alcohol to the tank as this is the main ingredient in most of the gas dryers. Be careful that you don't add regular rubbing alcohol as it is usually 70% alcohol and the rest is water but you can find 90% rubbing alcohol here in the US. Make sure it's isopropyl alcohol (also know as isopropanol) and nothing else. The alcohol mixes with whatever water it finds and suspends it in the gas and then it's carried through. You could add about two cups to a tank of gas.

BTW - Where are you based in Italy?

bunnyart

hi My07,

We are in Naples Italy.
And you have to be careful where you buy your gas at. We went to this mini gas station in town and since than we are having problems. Usually we buy gas from big stations on the highway like Agip. But you never know here.
This car is very sensitive to these things.
I am still kind of shocked that the ignition coils went bad after just only 29000 miles....????

thanks yes I bought that water dryer liquid and we will see. The car still shaking though.

thanks so much for your answer

bartman227

Would you happen to have Michelen tires on your Ody?

bunnyart

I think yes, but I can hear the motor is not running properly like not all cylinders are working???? I guess...its hard to explain...but the motor does not sound great as it did 2 weeks ago....it cant be tires...
Ignition coils? Spark plugs? I DONT KNOW.....driving me crazy...this car.

ricardo_33172

Yes. My van is 07 Honda Odyssey EX-L. The dealer has aligned them 4 times and now they are worn on the outside edges. This kind of wear is produced by a poor alignment. Even though they claim to have aligned the vehicle within Honda specs. I was complaining og my van pulling to the left. I think there could be a flaw on the design, that no matter how many times you align it, you will have problems.

ricardo_33172

I posteda reply without completely reading your post. What you have is a problem with the torque converter. There is a recall going on right now. Take it back to your dealer, they will reset the computer and change your torque converter. That will fix your problem.

tsais

I think you have defective tires. I had this kind of problem with my civic before, no matter how they try to align the four wheels, the car still pulls to the right. After the dealer told me to go to their contracted tire shop and replaced the defective tire, my civic ran straight again. I hope this helps.

cheapmom

How do you file the claim? I want to do the same.

bunnyart

Well, the car at a Honda Dealer in Napoli,Italy. I called Honda Corp. in US and they will call this dealer and will see what happens.....Honda Corp said they will send the parts to this dealer, since they do not have parts to Honda Odysseys here.
I guess its between the dealer here and Honda Corp.Usa.
Hopefully we don't have to pay anything since the car is under warranty.

cloudman23

As indicated in my earlier posting (#179) the Odyssey torque converter was replaced on 12-16-2009. That and the necessary alignment was performed without cost to me by the dealer where I purchased the vehicle, Honda of Ocala. In getting to the converter certain front end components must be moved which makes that alignment necessary. The service manager, Joe Olds, and mechanic, Mike Hunter, were on top of things. In fact, the business was having a Christmas luncheon and, in spite of my encouragement to "take a break," Mike Hunter worked right through the party. For a considerable time, he was the only mechanic working out there; while others were taking a break (which I felt was appropriate considering the occasion). I was prepared, with my laptop (they have a wireless link for customers) to stay the day but he got it done shortly after 2 pm, came out and assured me that I could count on him if there were further problems.

We have only driven it a little over 1000 miles since the repair. The slow speed chatter (or judder) is gone but the irritating indecisive jerking between 55 and 60 mph has persisted from the "get-go." I suspect that there is a real engineering/design issue with the torque converter and that it will become a monster for Honda as the months go by and people get more and more miles on their Odysseys. I don't think it will go away unless they come up with some compatible redesign and large-scale replacement which would be very costly. If they don't, I think they will lose a lot of customers just as Saturn did over their VTi (constant velocity) transmission.

I am totally satisfied with the efforts on the part of my dealer to fix the problem, now that I'm no longer being told that "It's just a characteristic of the vehicle" but I do not have the confidence to keep this vehicle much longer and because of this and other engineering and design decisions that Honda has made over the last few years, this could very well be the end of Honda being in my family. I bought my daughter a new Civic when she graduated from college and had expected to do the same for my son when he graduates but the brand may change. I think Honda really screwed up with the design of the 4-door Accord (and surprised a lot of people when it came out far removed from the prototypes we had been seeing) and the new CrossTour (I think that's what it's called) misses the mark too - in my opinion.

Because of the negative feelings (and the rational fear of a retired man on a modest fixed income) generated over this experience with such an expensive vehicle (the Odyssey) I intend to talk to my dealer to assess their attitude about future problems of the type I've been having. I will report to this forum once that happens.

Safe Driving!
Cloudman23

tsais

I have all the problems that people talked about on this forum with my '06 Odyssey EX-L (30,000 miles), and Lee's Summit Honda in Lee's Summit, MO couldn't and wouldn't solve the problems. I thought about selling it or trade it in but was not certain until I read your post. I have 3 Honda's and am ready to buy another vehicle for my college teen daughter, and the brand will certainly not a Honda.

sreiss

Cloudman - thank you for your extensive comments here.

I also had the judder issue and a broken front engine mount on my 2007 Ody (with 22,000 miles). I have owned something like 6 Hondas and have never seriously considered a different brand. This experience with this Ody, though, is causing me to have serious concerns. I have never experienced any technical issue anywhere near this severe with a Honda. On my 90 Acura, I think I changed the oil regularly and other scheduled maintenance, and that was it for 130K miles. I didn't even have to change the clutch on that manual 5-speed. When I talked with my mechanic about selling it, he said it was still a "pup" and would likely go 300K.

I just had the engine mount and torque converter replaced on my 07 Ody on Friday. The judder at 30-40 mph is definitely gone, which is great, because it was worsening fast and was very, very annoying. However, in general, I am leery of the behavior of the transmission. Of course, I only have a sample size of one, but it just does not feel to me like it is behaving smoothly and with confidence. I never felt this way for the first two years of ownership. Perhaps it is psychological on my part, but it just doesn't seem "right".

I had a discussion with the service advisor expressing my concerns about this being an inherent issue that, for all I knew, would recur in another 22K miles. He did his best to assure me that this was not something they see a lot of, and while serious and major, I should not presume that there was an increased likelihood of recurrence. I appreciate his position, but I am in a quandry because my confidence has been shaken. My wife and I are pretty conservative drivers and our vehicles typically last a long time because of it. As I told the service advisor, "it's not like we're going off-roading with the thing."

At the moment I am considering purchasing the extended warranty as a hedge, and as a less expensive alternative to swapping to another vehicle. When we got the 07, it was a trade-up from an 01 Ody, and it was my hope that the 07 would last 7+ years easily. Now I am not so sure.

ddssjsk

Cloudman: I feel the same way. I bought out 07 oddy thinking it would serve us into retirement and beyond. I'm not so sure now. This transmission converter issue seems to be wide spread throughout the 2005-2010 model years and subject to failure at any time or miles. I have read of them coming directly off the showroom with the converter judder. Mine initally failed at around 5,000 miles and made it about fourty miles before failing again after the converter was replaces as per the recall. I have no confidence it will be any different in the future. I am hearing there is another class action brewing. You know honda had similar issues with the 2001-2004 odyssey and was followed by class action.

tman22

Where can I find out about the recall on the 2005 transmission?

adg62

We own a 2008 it has had a vibration and pulls since the day we bought it. The dealer has turned the rotors twice, rotated the tire adjusted the air pressure, move tires from left to right and back. Still we have the vib.and pulling. They charged us for turning the rotors. I have turn off the VSA and that seems to help, but ever time they adjust the pressure the low press. lite comes on and then turns on the VSA.
We are now contacting Honda and hopefully they will fix it.
This is the first that i have heard it could be in the converter.
We will be calling the dealer and see what they say. :mad: :mad: :mad:

auburn6

The SB for the transmission vibration is for all 2007,08 and some 09. The vibration happens between 20mph and 45mph mostly. 2005 is not part of this issue, not to say that you dont have an issue just not this one..

The first step is to re-program the ECM/PCM then when that doesn't fix it replace the torque converter. Usually just the re-program is not enough..

Also for others this vibration would be had to confuse with a wheel balance or brake issue as it feels more like a engine misfire or clutch chatter.

4grandsons

If the vibration and pulling you're feeling is coming through the steering chances are it's not the brakes or the tires, but it's the transmission torque converter cavitating. This is caused when the torque converter will not go into lockup. We had a 2007 Odyssey EX-L that was recalled for the "transmission judder" and the problem was made worse by the fix. The torque converter was replaced, but within about another 1,000 miles the behavior returned. Your dealer needs to focus on the torque converter and hopefully that fixes it.

warrior_pr

My 2008 EX-L model start with a front noises during right or left turns. I went to the dealer and they said front axes have to be change. During the visit front axes was ordered to Honda and they ran torque converter campaign re-program without asked me. What an error, now my Odyssey has the torque converter symptons.I will keep all inform about my experience about this 23000 miles Odyssey

4grandsons

I've heard that noise from the front like you are describing is due to a faulty power steering reservoir. The noise seems to be much louder at low temperatures. It is caused by the reservoir allowing air into the power steering system. The fix is to replace the power steering reservoir. I don't know if there is a technical service bulletin for this or not. Perhaps others out there may have more information.

vsmith1

I had torque converter replaced, under warranty, on my 2007 EX-L Odyssey in about October 2009. The vibration came back and today they reprogrammed it and seems to be working ok now. The update came out on 1/07/2010 so if you had your TQ replaced before that go back for a reprogramming of transmission/TQ.

my07

How do you know that an update came out on 1/7/2010? Is there a new service bulletin you are aware of? The original service bulletin has not been updated since 7/14/2009. It has the software version codes in it so I would think, if there are newer versions, they would update that bulletin. But that's assuming that Honda has their act together....never mind....

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A09-053.PDF

deelee

I just had my 2007 Odyssey new software update from 1/7/2010 done a week ago. It is better but still has vibration and clunking gears at times. The manager of the dealership said his vice president had the same van and had his torque converter replaced twice. They insisted on doing the update as opposed to replacing the torque converter. He told me I had to drive it 1000 miles then I could come back and have the torque converter replaced. He told me that the software learns your particular pattern of driving and adjust to it over time. It sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me. I am not happy, what kind of long term problems could come from this. It can't be good for the engine. They told me that the warranty had been extended to 60,000 miles as opposed to 50,000 because of this issue. Maybe they should replace the transmission totally. Of course they aren't going to do this if they don't have to. I already had to have the steering column worked on with another service bulletin problem. I didn't expect this from a Honda with 40,000 miles on it!

ciao888

On a new 2010 LX Odyssey I have noticed a vibration I can turn on and off.

I can get rid of the vibration (feels like you're driving on a washboard) by turning off the overdrive. At 80KMH I can feel it the most and turning off and on the overdrive will turn off and on the vibration. On a slight incline I have the same vibration at about 60 KMH. This was verified by the HONDA mechanic who said to me it was the transmission trying to find the right gear. He had suggested that I turn off the overdrive. There was a 2009 courtesy Odyssey that we test drove and it had the same condition. In the end, he said this was not the judder noted in the TSB calling for a program or torque converter change.

Now I have the same droning noise when I have a "cold" start and it lasts for a few minutes. Do you have the same issue, that it is temporary?

So far I have BS from CSR and Case Manager who tell me this is a "normal" operating characteristic of the vehicle. Obviously if I can turn on and off the vibration by turning on and off the overdrive, it tells me there is a direct link or cause, especially if the HONDA tech tells me the transmission is trying to find the right gear. The game that is played is the dealership cannot replace parts if they cannot root cause the issue properly as HONDA will not compensate them if it doesn't fix the issue. I know this as I initially had the vibration issue and they re-balanced the tires. Issue is still there and they have not sent me my "work" order. They told me once HONDA gives approval for the dealership, I'll get the work order. So if there is no TSB (or product update), they may not get compensated for work done if it does not solve the issue.

I'll be escalating this issue to the next level. Anyone else have the same issue.

ddssjsk

ciao888

Same senerio as all the 2005-2010 models. Honda is still not being honest about the issue. Insist the dealer do a snap shot diagnosis. 99% they will find a defective torque converter. My 2007 is now pending arbitration. My symptoms started with the exhaust droan at about 5,000 miled on the odometer. Suggestion! set your average fuel economy meter to zero while on the interstate. You fuel economy shoud show 25-26 mpg. If it indicates below 22 mpg then your torgue converter is not engageing which is what gives you overdrive for fuel economy. Had the recall done about 60 days ago. Vehicle made it about 40 mile before failing again after picking vehicle up from dearler service dept. When you disengage the overdrive you are changeing the engine rpm which compensates for the shudder and also partially disengages the torque converter. I am seeing that this issue is extending into the 2010 model odysseys. I own two hondas. This will be my last.
This issue extends into the Acura line also.

tsais

ddssjsk,

I own 3 Hondas, and my 06 Odyssey will be my last Honda too. I have all the problems people talked about here on this forum. You mentioned that you had the recall done 60 days ago, would you mind telling me what recall you were refering to?

deelee

I love the expression clutch chatter. I got the new update out January 7th,2010. It is still doing it after 400 miles. I have to wait until 1000 miles before they will replace the torque converter. It is different than before the software. It sounds like a flatulent sound as if it is letting off air. It also seems to be guzzling gas like crazy! It is even doing that sound when I'm driving at a high speed on the interstate today! Is Honda going to pay me for my gas, time and headache? I am having my van serviced this week at Firestone. I'm going to ask them to drain and check the transmission fluid. I've heard that sometimes this causes metal shaving to get into the transmission. What is the torque converter? Is it part of the transmission? I have a feeling this problem is related to the transmission and Honda doesn't want to deal with that so they keep trying to do a quick fix so they don't have to pay to fix the real issue because it is so expensive! I call it aggravation in the highest! Dee Lee

deelee

The dealership told me that the clutch chatter was only on 2007 and 2008. If you just bought a 2010 and it's having some kind of gear/transmission vibration I would stay on top of it like a hawk!! Service it right away. I will be covered under warranty. Then you can be covered under the lemon law. With all the problems we have had with our vans I would raise hell if I bought a new one and was having any problem. I have found you can't always be nice about these things and they will tell you whatever to keep you off their backs. You have to stand your ground. Deelee

4grandsons

Yes, the torque converter is part of the transmission. In vehicles with automatic transmissions it replaces the mechanical clutch and is the device that transfers power from the engine to the transmission. The "clutch chatter" is caused by cavitations in the torque converter when it fails to go into lockup, which occurs at cruising speeds. We too noticed that fuel mileage fell off dramatically after the software fix for the transmission "judder" was performed and before the torque converter was replaced. Combined city/highway MPG fell below 19 MPG. After the torque converter was replaced, fuel mileage was restored. Sadly however, the symptoms you are describing returned after the torque converter was replaced and we started to hear the same song and dance about this being "normal" behavior. I can assure you it is not "normal" for any automatic transmission to behave this way. Honda has an inherent design flaw and needs to fix it.

4grandsons

When you turn off the overdrive you force the transmission to shift. This forces the torque converter to drop out of lockup mode when the shift occurs and back into lockup mode afterwards. This is the same as stepping on the accelerator. This is caused by the torque converter not going into lockup mode at cruising speeds and based on the number of comments here and our own experience, appears to be very common and continues to occur even after the torque converter is replaced. Essentially, the Honda mechanic is correct, by not going into lockup, the torque converter is telling the transmission to shift when it doesn't need to. We were told to tap the accelerator when this occurred, however I can tell you this is not normal by any means. As you suggest there appears to be a design flaw in this setup that does not work well together.

The droning noise you are hearing in cold temperatures may be unrelated. If the noise is coming from the front it could be the power steering reservoir. There is a known problem where air can enter the power steering system. The fix is to replace the power steering reservoir. You may want to have your dealer check this out.

ddssjsk

Tsais:
It's not a true NTSA recall but a TSB (technical service bulletin) issued by honda. Involves reprogramming the PCM ( powertrain control module ) which is supposed to control the shift points of the transmission. However the converter is controlled hydrolically by timing valves so I don't know why Honda would think that reprogramming the PCM would fix the torque converter shudder. The proceedure is first reprogram the PCM, If that doesn't stop the shudder then teplace the torque converter which is not correcting the problem either. You should get a notice in the mail, however I did not receive one either. Bad thing is, a lot of owners are not experienceing the shudder issue until after the PCM is reprogramed.

4grandsons:
The exhaust droan is a precurser to and created by the torque converter shudder. Makes the exhaust system vibrate like a guitar string. (resonance)
Fix the transmission the droaning will be eliminated also.

deelee

What are we going to do? Here we have fairly new vans and they are telling us too bad you're stuck with a defective engine. I am getting really upset about this. I wonder if there is a class action brewing over this. Several people who have wrote of this mentioned they were in arbitration. I wonder how to proceed with this? I am ready to get to the bottom of this! Deelee

4grandsons

I can certainly understand your frustration. For us we decided that we did not want to continue with a vehicle with less then 50,000 miles that appears to have chronic mechanical issues. We just weren't comfortable putting our young grandsons in such a vehicle. We decided to get rid of the Odyssey altogether. We still own a 2008 Honda Accord EX-L (4-cyl.) that has been trouble free for 30,000 miles, but I can tell you that I won't buy another Odyssey.

4grandsons

Understood. As I said, there is also a known issue with the power steering reservoir allowing air into the system. This can also make a horrible noise that seems to be louder at low temperatures. With problems around the transmission, brakes, and power steering it can be difficult to know which problem is occurring or if you have multiple issues like we did. It was only after the torque converter was replaced did we realize there was still a noise coming from the front of the vehicle. It was the power steering reservoir.

ddssjsk

I am well aware of the power steering noise (whine). "That was repaired at about 12,000 miles". However the transmissions can have a similar whine but usually at just above idle R.P.M. on initial acceleration. At times a complete power steering pump replacement is required and sometimes more than once. Honda's initial excuse was contaminated PS fluid.

deelee

My 2007 Honda Odyssey has a slipping gear and clunking gears which causes it to vibrate. I was told that it needed a software update and if that didn't work it needed a new torque converter, This issue is supposed to be on 2007 and 2008. They told me at the dealership that the 50,000 mile warranty on the power train has been extended to 60,000. I don't know if this is for 2007 and up, but you might want to check about this soon since you have 59,000 miles.

deelee

I read on the Honda Service Bulletins at in.honda.com that there was a problem with an engine mount. If you look at the service bulletins maybe that will help you. These are known problems that Honda has acknowledged and sent out to the dealership service departments.

4grandsons

Nice! Thanks for sharing the information. As I said, sometimes it's hard to determine which problem one may have depending on the noise. I had a 1989 Ford Bronco II that made a similar noise from the powering steering and it did require a power steering pump replacement so I was skeptical about just replacing the reservoir from the start.

pcanuel

I can't go to see the tsb on in.Honda.com. The dealer make update pcm and change the torque converter. Now i have problem and the dealer say to me i call honda and wait for he find the problem. Before the update my ody touring 07 have no problem

lordzordon

We have a 2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L. We bought a few months ago it with nearly 60k miles on it. Shortly after buying it, we noted poor gas mileage (about 17 mpg combined) and odd shifting behaviour/vibration. Took it to the local dealer (West Hills Honda) who insisted that the gas mileage is normal, did the "Judder" bulletin computer update and changed the transmission fluid. Like everyone else is saying, now the odd behaviour is worse! It shudders at low speeds, and acts like its trying to shift at all speeds. And I've passed the warranty period. I took it into an indepentent mechanic who said it was mechanically sound, but thinks there's problems with the transmission shift points. I took it back to West Hills Honda, and they intended to do a transmission diagnosis. They called me later that day and said they didn't notice any unusual driving behaviour. (Being located in a hilly area with older roads doesn't help for diagnoses.) Still acting up. I'd really like to see a solid solution to the problem. We bought Honda because they're never supposed to fail and get great gas mileage. Not pleased.

tsais

I am sorry to hear that you have the same problems that most Odyssey owners and I have. I have a '06 Odyssey EX-L with 30,000 miles on it, and I really don't want to deal with any Honda dealers anymore because I had enough bull sxxxs from them, they are helpless. However, I believe it's Honda should stand out and solve the problems, since all dealers are following Honda's service guide lines. I am too afraid to take my Odyssey to the dealer (Lee's Summit, MO) for any program updates or repairs just based on what people said here after they took their Odysseys to the dealer (the transmission juddering problem gets worse). Good luck.

doggrandma

I am really puzzled. The Odyssey is ranked as one of the vehicles that people would definitely buy again, according to Consumer Reports. Also, they seem to sell a lot of them. I need a larger vehicle for hauling dogs, stuff, grandkids, etc., and the Odyssey was at the top of my list. However, after reading about all these problems, I don't know if I should even consider it. :confuse:

commercialguy

These problems seem to cut across the years. I bought my Odyssey because I thought it would be a trouble free vehicle if I maintained it well and I just spent over $700 to get my torque converter fixed. If they had their way I would have spent $900 on a motor mount and $1800 on a torque converter. I would wait till next year of buy( I don't believe I'm saying this) a Sienna. I don't think Toyota will risk screwing up any more.

lordzordon

Aside from the juddering problems and the lower-than-expected gas mileage (which I think are related), the van is wonderful. If its correct that most people don't have problems then maybe they're still a good idea. I still intend to keep mine as long as it runs.