Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Thanks
For the tent, it is my belief the official one is no longer being made. You may still be able to find one online somewhere via a google search, or you may want to consider an alternative such as the sportz tent for mid-size suvs (one of those fitz many vehicle things). They don't fit quite as neatly, but reasonable, and can be left up if you are camping more the one day and want to drice around elsewhere.
With a little measurement you can find a mattress other then the official one also that will work ok.
Then, I decided to buy a new battery as I still had the original installed. I was quite pleased when everything worked perfectly and figured my BCM problems might be cared for. After approx 1 week, ALL of the BCM problem items returned all at the same time. Additionally, there was one day soon after that the car wouldn't start (with the new battery!!!!).......this was an entirely new problem. My first thought was that I had corroded connections coming off the battery......the positive lead going to the fuse box in the engine compartment and the negative going to the frame in front of the battery. I cleaned these both up as the surface on the fuse box (positive) and the cable ends (positive and negative) were quite dull. When I did this, the car started but all the other BCM problem items listed above remained.
Because everything worked so well after the new battery was installed, I am not 100% convinced I have a bad BCM and am thinking there is a small possibility I may have a bad connection or wire somewhere. Additionally, I would hate to buy a new BCM (now $170) and have it programmed (approx $80) only to find out that this isn't the problem. I read that 75% of the BCMs returned to the manufacturer (Motorola) under warranty were not defective and the most common reasons for this were listed as: wrong module replaced, service procedure not followed, wiring problems or system issues.
Is anyone aware of the GM diagnostic routine for trouble shooting a potentially faulty BCM? I was able to find some wiring diagrams (power distribution, window circuit, a/c circuit, etc) from my local library's ARRC (Auto Repair Reference Center) which I was able to access (and print) from my home computer and have begun to look at them to see if I can understand all the inputs and outputs to the BCM. If I find them not to be complete, does anyone know where I can get detailed layouts of the Aztek's electrical circuits even if there is a small fee for them? Worst, case, I'd like to see if I have 12 volts coming in to the BCM.......and then see where don't I have the proper voltage coming out.
I am hoping someone can forward me the info (location, pix, items to disassemble, tips, etc) about how to get at the BCM which I understand to be under the cup holder in the center panel. Whether I do my voltage readings and find a different problem or end up replacing the BCM, I am going to have to get at the BCM, so I would REALLY appreciate if someone could get me this info.
In turn, I will keep this forum updated with the results of my trouble shooting. Who knows what new information might be uncovered about this unfortunate problem.
For any of you interested in seeing some GM tech information about this problem, check out link title and either click on the Motorola BCM link in the gray Table of Contents area at the top of the page or just scroll down until you see the article "Motorola Body Control Modules". Some interesting reading.
In advance, Thank You,
Ron
I also think its important to add that the BCM I took out showed no signs of problems from the outside, no corrosion on it or the fuse junction box, but then I've never had a computer last 7 years either(I own a 2001).
Thanks, Brenda
Bill
The BCM was programmed through the dealer so I assumed they matched the key -- although it was the wives key, not mine. Not sure that makes a difference.
Joe
Thank you
Thanks to JPM1145's information packet, I was able to get the original BCM out of the car with relative ease so I could get an understanding of how I was going to attack the task of measuring the voltages in and out of the BCM. As mentioned in my 6/4 post, I was doing this to satisfy myself that I had a bad BCM and not some other problem (wiring, a different module, etc). After seeing all the wires in the 3 connectors on the end of the BCM and the two large connectors (one light gray, the other black) on the back of the center console fuse panel, I could see I was in for a sizable task. After thinking more, I decided to simplify the task by only measuring the incoming voltages for components that were not working that were BCM related (see the Motorola BCM article at link title - mediawurks.com/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLcme.html#story6).
To do this, I had to reinstall the original BCM and started working at the center console fuse panel. After hooking the negative lead of my voltmeter (using an alligator clip) to the passenger center door hinge, I then touched the positive lead of my voltmeter to the little tiny circles of metal at the top of each of the plastic fuses (on either side of where the amp rating is stamped) and found 12 volts (approx) at fuse 3 (power door locks), fuse 13 (liftglass and endgate), fuse 37 and 38 (both radio related), fuse 41 (instrument panel cluster, HVAC control, security LED and remote keyless entry module), fuse 42 (Pass-Key III) and fuse 43 (BCM). These were the components that were not working for me.
There was only one situation that I found 0 volts and that was for fuse 28 (power windows) which is an enclosed metal fuse which I temporarily substituted a spare 30 amp plastic fuse like all the others. I tested my theory with another metal enclosed fuse (#11) and here I had 12 volts. From the wiring diagrams, I traced fuse 28 back to RAP relay 33 in the engine compartment fuse block where I found 12 volts. For now, I am a loss as to how to explain the 0 voltage at fuse 28 of the center console fuse panel (power windows). With the one exception, this told me that power was getting from the battery to the center console fuse panel which then fed the BCM itself.
I did not have a wiring diagram that told me which of the wires at the 3 multi-wire connectors coming out of the BCM or the 2 large connectors (one light gray, one black) were for my non-working components so at this point I made the decision that it was a pretty good chance that it had to be the BCM.
Earlier this week I ordered a replacement BCM from BrightAuto.com for $169 including the shipping cost. It arrived in 2 days and is now installed. When starting the car, I was quite disappointed to see that absolutely nothing had changed.
I would appreciate hearing from others that could tell me that they also saw no improvements with their new BCM installed until they got it programmed by a Pontiac dealer. I'd hate to throw away another $80 to have this done if it will not make a difference.
A question for Bill Kitt.....are you able to tell me what the diagnostic procedure is that the dealerships use?......or is this propriatary information? I had asked that in my 6/4 post but did not hear back from anyone.
Again, all responses are appreciated.
Joe
I'd like your write up on the installation of the BCM for my 2001 Aztek if you can send it.
Thanks,
Dave
By a stroke of sheer luck, I came across an article about the class-action suit regarding this when I received my latest issue of "Parents" today. I have done some research this evening, and have seen in some forums that the repairs needed to be completed before 5/30/08. I've also read through the information on the dexcoolsettlement website, and couldn't find any 'cut-off' dates other than when you can file a claim, or the amount you get depending on when you had the repair done. If I am to receive the max amount they will offer, I need to get this fixed before 7/05/08. This will be the 5th anniversary of my purchase. Talk about cutting it close!!
So my question is, have I really passed the cut-off date for reimbursement, or should I at least try to get some money out if this? My step-father works for GM, and when I called him tonight, he mentioned possibly going to my dealer and asking them about a 'silent warranty' for this type of repair??? Anyone have any experience with that?
Any and all advice is appreciated!
Kim
The Secret Warranty
I'm not sure I qualify for the "dealer-loyalty" thing, though. We moved out-of-state for a few years just 2 years after I purchased the vehicle, but before that, I went to my dealer for everything. Now we are back in the same 'general' area as before, but far enough away that it's inconvenient to visit my old dealership. I will definitely have it looked at by a Pontiac dealer closer to my home now, though!
Joe
Here's the link:
Pontiac Aztek BCM removal and installation
There may also be a maximum # of miles that the car can be driven before the BCM becomes "SECURED". I am not sure of this.
Solution is to tow the vehicle to the servicing dealer and don't turn the engine over. Make sure that the service technician is aware of this, otherwise the service dept. could cause the same problem by just moving the car around the service bay 3 or 4 times.
If I don't solve this BCM problem, I will be rewiring several other circuits also. My priority will be: 1 - back lift gate, 2 - power door locks, 3 - A/C. Think I can live without everything else. If I can get my hands on the wiring diagram for the 2 large connectors on the back of the center console fuse panel and the 3 connectors on the BCM, I am tinkering with opening my old BCM and hardwiring everything inside the BCM.......then I would have almost everything working with possibly the exception of the radio because of the built in "theft deterrent" feature I've been reading about. The solution to that will be to replace the radio with one of the latest and greatest radios now available. I could live with that. I TOTALLY refuse to take this car in to a dealership and give them any money to fix this. I've read too many stories about huge repair bills and not always a solution. The only money they will get from me is $80 if someone can prove to me that my new BCM has to be programmed before all of my features will work.
You should have your email shortly with the requested wiring diagrams. Any Q's, let me know. If you discover anything to help solve this mystery, I hope you will share.
Ron
Then I started Googling and found this forum along with this
tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself. The tutorial and the dealership both mention that it would need be reprogrammed after replacing.
I've already retrieved my car without them doing the work (though I had to pay $90 just for the diagnostic!). I want to give it a try myself, but my only concern would be getting it to back to the dealer (or other repair shop with the capability to reprogram). Will it start or not after replacing the BCM? If so, I'm willing to give it a try ($170 for part + a couple hours of my time < $700).
Any recommendations on where to buy the part from? The dealer told me part #15235418. I see it on an Amazon webstore for $170. I see it for $162 on BrightAuto.com too. Is that a reliable place to order from?
Thanks for the input.
One word of warning.......hopefully you aren't afraid of a nice challenge as getting your bad BCM out out from the center console area will test your patience some but, it's definitely able to be removed in no more than an hour. I found my biggest problem with the removal was spreading the lower tab that faces the rear of the car......this one is very hard to see from the passenger side......and, the tab seems to bump up on part of the white inside part of the console housing. I had a neighbor come by to work from the drivers side......he slipped a small screwdriver between the fuse module/BCM combination and the holding bracket and once spread, was able to push the assembly toward me on the passenger side.
The link that you included in your note "tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself" did not lead me to a tutorial so I am not sure what you are looking at. If you need, I can forward you some darn good instructions that Joe (JPM1145) was kind enough to send to me. These are step by step complete with pix of critical steps in the process. It's quite possible that you already have this in your tutorial information.
To answer your question, after installing the new BCM, my car started up with no problem. As mentioned in my post (#229), everything was exactly the same as it was before replacing the BCM. All of the items that were not working previously were still not working. Like I mentioned in my post, it was as if I had put the old BCM back in instead of the new BCM. This is contrary to every post I've read here.......unless I've misunderstood which is certainly a possibility. For now, I am driving my car without getting it programmed as I am hesitant to put any more money until I get this confusion clarified. For all I know I have a different problem although I am at a loss to understand what that might be.
I ordered mine from BrightAuto.com.....came to $169 with shipping. It's an AC Delco unit.......the AC part # is 15235418. This is also the GM part #......both are shown on the box. It's covered by a 1 year warranty. Got my unit in 3 days.
Keep us up to date with your progress. One last thing, you didn't get into any detail about the problems you were experiencing.
My symptoms started with the back hatch not opening. By this I mean no sound or anything when trying either the remote, the dash release or even the key on the back. That started working not long after, but other symptoms started and that one returned. Other symptoms now are AC button does nothing, radio says LOCKED, dash light switches between "Service Vehicle Soon" and "Security". Also when I turn off the engine, instead of accessories staying available until timing out or the door opening, it powers off immediately. Remote key unlocking isn't working nor are the dashboard lights at night (and I've tried adjusting the interior knob).
I'm looking into another possibility or two, but may go ahead and buy the part and give it a go. Thanks for the feedback, Ron
You can also check eBay for the part, although that can take time. I bot mine on eBay for $78, brand new. Maybe you could make a deal with RonMan811 who bot one and it did not help.
Joe
But, our format really isn't set up for buying and selling - eBay is a better bet.
I want to inspect this wiring harness myself, do you guys know where it's located? Or is there some maintenance guide to the Aztek? I'm not big into cars, but I am a computer engineer so I might be able to fix mine.
I've been having this ABS/TractionControl problem for over a year now and have just been ignoring it (yes, it's dangerous) because I'm sick of fixing this car. I took it in for a noise issue and the mechanic told me to just drive the thing until it cant run anymore.
Unfortunately it cant run now. I had the ABS/Traction control system light come on again and now my car wont start for me. I turn the key and nothing happens. The battery is fine, everything seems normal, it's like the starter is disabled. The weird thing is that it seems like it's drawing current still, the engine is just not turning.
Does anyone know where this harness is or any ideas how to debug the engin not turning?
Thanks,
Dave