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If someone does have a detailed explanation on BCM replacement and would like to share it they could post it in the guides section here at Edmunds (click guides at top of page). Could be very helpful and easy to access for others.
sshh I don't want to say it to loud, but there is as of now a cooler on ebay (for the next day or so). It is in Canada but appears to ship to US also.
For the tent, it is my belief the official one is no longer being made. You may still be able to find one online somewhere via a google search, or you may want to consider an alternative such as the sportz tent for mid-size suvs (one of those fitz many vehicle things). They don't fit quite as neatly, but reasonable, and can be left up if you are camping more the one day and want to drice around elsewhere.
With a little measurement you can find a mattress other then the official one also that will work ok.
I tried to quickly paste my Word document containing the instructions and pictures and it appears that it is a little more involved than I can handle right at this moment. Maybe someone can get the instructions from me and host them. IF not I'll have more time next week and see whats involved.
I am having most of the same problems that many of you are having with your 2001 Pontiac Aztek. For me also, pulling fuse #28 used to work to get things going again. When this all started (18 months ago), pulling the fuse would keep me up and running for several weeks and the only problems I had were a tail gate that would not open and A/C that did not work. As time passed, fuse #28 needed to pulled more frequently and the kinds of problems expanded (radio displayed "locked", windows stopped working, car lock button on door panel stopped working, remote key stopped working, car alarm would go off after 1-2 minutes of shutting off the car, instrument panel lights and gauges stopped working, headlights not shutting off, continual clicking of what sounds like the door locking mechanism). Recently, pulling fuse #28 stopped working all-together as a solution to get me up and running temporarily.
Then, I decided to buy a new battery as I still had the original installed. I was quite pleased when everything worked perfectly and figured my BCM problems might be cared for. After approx 1 week, ALL of the BCM problem items returned all at the same time. Additionally, there was one day soon after that the car wouldn't start (with the new battery!!!!).......this was an entirely new problem. My first thought was that I had corroded connections coming off the battery......the positive lead going to the fuse box in the engine compartment and the negative going to the frame in front of the battery. I cleaned these both up as the surface on the fuse box (positive) and the cable ends (positive and negative) were quite dull. When I did this, the car started but all the other BCM problem items listed above remained.
Because everything worked so well after the new battery was installed, I am not 100% convinced I have a bad BCM and am thinking there is a small possibility I may have a bad connection or wire somewhere. Additionally, I would hate to buy a new BCM (now $170) and have it programmed (approx $80) only to find out that this isn't the problem. I read that 75% of the BCMs returned to the manufacturer (Motorola) under warranty were not defective and the most common reasons for this were listed as: wrong module replaced, service procedure not followed, wiring problems or system issues.
Is anyone aware of the GM diagnostic routine for trouble shooting a potentially faulty BCM? I was able to find some wiring diagrams (power distribution, window circuit, a/c circuit, etc) from my local library's ARRC (Auto Repair Reference Center) which I was able to access (and print) from my home computer and have begun to look at them to see if I can understand all the inputs and outputs to the BCM. If I find them not to be complete, does anyone know where I can get detailed layouts of the Aztek's electrical circuits even if there is a small fee for them? Worst, case, I'd like to see if I have 12 volts coming in to the BCM.......and then see where don't I have the proper voltage coming out.
I am hoping someone can forward me the info (location, pix, items to disassemble, tips, etc) about how to get at the BCM which I understand to be under the cup holder in the center panel. Whether I do my voltage readings and find a different problem or end up replacing the BCM, I am going to have to get at the BCM, so I would REALLY appreciate if someone could get me this info.
In turn, I will keep this forum updated with the results of my trouble shooting. Who knows what new information might be uncovered about this unfortunate problem.
For any of you interested in seeing some GM tech information about this problem, check out link title and either click on the Motorola BCM link in the gray Table of Contents area at the top of the page or just scroll down until you see the article "Motorola Body Control Modules". Some interesting reading.
Mine started one day on a 2 hour trip. The clicking of door locks while driving. The next day I could not start the car as the battery had died from evidently doing this all night and unlocking the rear hatch, which then made the interior lights go on and off to the point of wearing the battery down. It also would turn the radio on about 5 minutes after I left the car. It was the original battery, so I replaced it, thinking that was the problem. Worked for a day or two and then it started again. This time the car was parked in front of my family room window and at dark I could see the lights mysteriously go on and off. Then my key FOB stopped working. The last straw was when all of a sudden after pulling in the yard and turning the car off, everything started going off at once, the interior and exterior lights, clicking sounds of door locks, bells etc. So far after replacement, 2 days, no problems. I'm having it reprogrammed today. I also think its important to add that the BCM I took out showed no signs of problems from the outside, no corrosion on it or the fuse junction box, but then I've never had a computer last 7 years either(I own a 2001).
I have a 2003 Aztek. I went to get in car today and just got some clicking sounds and the gearshift wouldn't move out of park. A tow truck jumped it and I went off to get a new battery which was way past due anyway.. the problem is that the technician took off the cover of the relay box and one of the modules was buzzing.. he thinks this is what is causing my problems.. can anyone give me some insight on this? Thanks, Brenda
Those sensitive electronics can be troublesome sometimes. The clicking/buzzing stuff is usually an indication of improper voltage, either because battery is low or due to bad connection. Is the buzzing still happening? If so you may have to figure out which relay it is, then perhaps re-seat it or replace. That would be the first steps I'd take along with checking the fat wire connection the the underhood fuse box from battery.
Sounds like you are really doing your homework on this. I can't really help with what your asking, but would add at least a couple owners have corrected their BCM related problems by cleaning connecton area (and ensuring proper seating) of the BCM. One used product called 'DeOxit' (electircal contact cleaner)
Yes, I thought about that also, but when I removed the BCM everything looked brand new. I was hoping that it would be mild corrosion, but no such luck. If you don't need the car right away, pull it out and check. I put it back in in less than 1/2 hour. After you remove it, the experience makes putting it back in easy. I just don't see how anything could at it. It is such a sealed unit, and it actually sits under the radio area, making even spilling something on a stretch. But I'm sure once you get to look at it, you will probably be able to tell right away.
I have a 2003 Aztek, 76K miles. Sometimes I have trouble getting it started. When this happens the engine usually begins to turn over, but conks out quickly--sounds like its flooded--the car shakes a good bit and then it dies. Today, it was a little different: the car turned over, but quickly died (showing the same symptoms)--even after I was able to run the RPMs to about 3K for a few seconds. Sometimes, it will start after just a waiting a minute or two; other times 30-45 minutes. These episodes usually occur on warmer days (today it was 90 degrees), and usually after the car has been driven for 45 minutes or more. It was seen by a Goodyear place that replaced the battery and corroded cables, but that didn't help. Local Pontiac dealership had it for three days, but couldn't replicate the problem. Any ideas out there?
I've had my Aztec for 3-4 years now and I love it, but unfortunately they are no longer made. Currently, what is the vehicle that best compares to the Aztec? I am soon to be in the market.
Is it a HOT START problem? I:E: Shutting it down for just a few minutes (like getting fuel) after getting engine warm. If so I have never heard of a good fix for it, I just get around the problem by holding key in start position longer after it fails the first time. Other then that it may be something as simple as needing a new fuel filter.i
Thx, I'll try that, but I am little doubtful of success given my experience. A guy waiting to pay for his car repair at the Pontiac dealership told me had very similiar symptoms with a GM make and it turned out to be the ignition coils needed to be replaced.
I had the exact same problems as Ron. I had my BCM replace on Friday and drove the vehicle yesterday. No problems at all. However, I tried to start my Aztek last night and it would not start -- the headlights would go on but it would not turn over at all. It eventually turned over after about 5 minutes of trying. I tried again this afternoon and again it would not start. I tried my wives key and it finally started. I think that was probably a fluke. It's been starting since this afternoon. I'm now thinking it's an electrical problem -- maybe corroded wires? I hope replacing the BCM wasn't a mistake...
Did you get the BCM flashed(programmed)? The theft deterent module has to be introduced to the new BCM in order for it to be able to read the key. It starts after the theft deterent mod scrolls through codes and finally hits the right one. It will be hit and miss until you get it flashed.
The BCM was programmed through the dealer so I assumed they matched the key -- although it was the wives key, not mine. Not sure that makes a difference.
I have a 2005 pontiac Aztek. 1 year and 3 months ago I took it to the dealer because the transmission was slipping the interior dash lights quit working and the radio lights were dadiung in and out. I told them that something electrical was going on. They rebuilt my transmission (I had 58,000 miles on it) replaced the instrument cluster and the radio, saying it was because of an internall error. I am now having the same problems along with the air only blowing hot air. Went to the dearler. They said because I am out of warranty and bacause it has been 1 year and three months that it would not be covered and it would cost me around $400 for them to pull the dash out and see what the problem is. I do not know what to do. I feel like the problems I am having are the same as before and that the dealer or GM should be held responsible. Please help me figure out what to do. I am at a total loss. Anyone who can help please email me at melbumpus03@aol.com. I would greatly appreciate any input. Thank you
It's been over a week since my post on June 4th. During this time I've spent a good amount of time working with the wiring diagrams I was able to download from my library's Automotive Repair Reference Center (ARRC). The most helpful were the Power Distribution diagrams which were split up into 4 pages. It took me a while to understand them as there were connections between each of the pages and it was not overly easy to see where they went. Also, on these wiring diagrams, the fuses in the center console fuse block were not identified by number and the names did not always line up with the information in our owner's manual.......I had to write this all in on the wiring diagram.
Thanks to JPM1145's information packet, I was able to get the original BCM out of the car with relative ease so I could get an understanding of how I was going to attack the task of measuring the voltages in and out of the BCM. As mentioned in my 6/4 post, I was doing this to satisfy myself that I had a bad BCM and not some other problem (wiring, a different module, etc). After seeing all the wires in the 3 connectors on the end of the BCM and the two large connectors (one light gray, the other black) on the back of the center console fuse panel, I could see I was in for a sizable task. After thinking more, I decided to simplify the task by only measuring the incoming voltages for components that were not working that were BCM related (see the Motorola BCM article at link title - mediawurks.com/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLcme.html#story6).
To do this, I had to reinstall the original BCM and started working at the center console fuse panel. After hooking the negative lead of my voltmeter (using an alligator clip) to the passenger center door hinge, I then touched the positive lead of my voltmeter to the little tiny circles of metal at the top of each of the plastic fuses (on either side of where the amp rating is stamped) and found 12 volts (approx) at fuse 3 (power door locks), fuse 13 (liftglass and endgate), fuse 37 and 38 (both radio related), fuse 41 (instrument panel cluster, HVAC control, security LED and remote keyless entry module), fuse 42 (Pass-Key III) and fuse 43 (BCM). These were the components that were not working for me.
There was only one situation that I found 0 volts and that was for fuse 28 (power windows) which is an enclosed metal fuse which I temporarily substituted a spare 30 amp plastic fuse like all the others. I tested my theory with another metal enclosed fuse (#11) and here I had 12 volts. From the wiring diagrams, I traced fuse 28 back to RAP relay 33 in the engine compartment fuse block where I found 12 volts. For now, I am a loss as to how to explain the 0 voltage at fuse 28 of the center console fuse panel (power windows). With the one exception, this told me that power was getting from the battery to the center console fuse panel which then fed the BCM itself.
I did not have a wiring diagram that told me which of the wires at the 3 multi-wire connectors coming out of the BCM or the 2 large connectors (one light gray, one black) were for my non-working components so at this point I made the decision that it was a pretty good chance that it had to be the BCM.
Earlier this week I ordered a replacement BCM from BrightAuto.com for $169 including the shipping cost. It arrived in 2 days and is now installed. When starting the car, I was quite disappointed to see that absolutely nothing had changed. Every single item that did not work with the old BCM was still not working with the new BCM installed. There were no new problems either....at least in the short amount of time I had to observe what was going on. It was almost as though I had reinstalled the old BCM. This was not possible because I had marked "old BCM" with a marker on the old BCM label. The other possibility is that it has to be programmed before working. This is not what I understood from several posts (#129 by maraztek, #130 by likearainbow, #197 by tvplas). One or more of these mentioned that everything worked for them except the radio was still locked and the airbag warning light stayed on.
I would appreciate hearing from others that could tell me that they also saw no improvements with their new BCM installed until they got it programmed by a Pontiac dealer. I'd hate to throw away another $80 to have this done if it will not make a difference.
A question for Bill Kitt.....are you able to tell me what the diagnostic procedure is that the dealerships use?......or is this propriatary information? I had asked that in my 6/4 post but did not hear back from anyone.
All my problem disappeared after the BCM replacement. The only thing that did not work that I could tell was the radio, as it still showed locked. After the dealer re-programmed the radio was then operational. I'm sorry to hear that it did not solve your problems. Joe
Hi there! I own an '03 Aztek and was quite surprised to be told by my repairman a few weeks ago that my Intake Manifold Gasket needed to be replaced!! Yikes!
By a stroke of sheer luck, I came across an article about the class-action suit regarding this when I received my latest issue of "Parents" today. I have done some research this evening, and have seen in some forums that the repairs needed to be completed before 5/30/08. I've also read through the information on the dexcoolsettlement website, and couldn't find any 'cut-off' dates other than when you can file a claim, or the amount you get depending on when you had the repair done. If I am to receive the max amount they will offer, I need to get this fixed before 7/05/08. This will be the 5th anniversary of my purchase. Talk about cutting it close!!
So my question is, have I really passed the cut-off date for reimbursement, or should I at least try to get some money out if this? My step-father works for GM, and when I called him tonight, he mentioned possibly going to my dealer and asking them about a 'silent warranty' for this type of repair??? Anyone have any experience with that?
I'm not sure I qualify for the "dealer-loyalty" thing, though. We moved out-of-state for a few years just 2 years after I purchased the vehicle, but before that, I went to my dealer for everything. Now we are back in the same 'general' area as before, but far enough away that it's inconvenient to visit my old dealership. I will definitely have it looked at by a Pontiac dealer closer to my home now, though!
It sounds to me like this is EXACTLY the problem. I had my HUBS replaced in OCT. of 2007, the ABS/AWD DISABLE light stopped coming on. Then, around Jan. or Feb. of '08, it would come on sporatically. Now it comes on when I make a right hand turn. After reading the posts here, it makes perfect sense that a wire or wire harness is bad. I am not going to spend another $750 on replacing the hubs until the wiring is checked. I am also going to call Pontiac and find out why this is not a recall issue if SO MANY POEPLE are having this problem. After all, its only the brakes, you can always use the car if ront of you to stop :mad:
Update on my Aztek...It's been over a week since I had my BCM replaced and I'm happy to report no problems -- I initially had problems starting the vehicle but those have magically disappeared. The mechanic who replaced my BCM and actually towed it to the local GM dealer to have it programmed. He said that he had heard that you could break your BCM if you try to run your vehicle prior to having it programmed and he was taking no chances. He charged me around $370 for the whole repair which I thought was fair...
I don't think running it without programming the BCM would hurt it, but the BCM does interface with one of the engine modules (PCM I believe) and there could be issues with starting or running if it isn't programmed.
You are partially correct. If you start your engine too many times between replacing the BCM and re-programing it then the BCM becomes "SECURED" and must be replaced. Its like trying to login to a computer using the wrong password and getting locked out after 3 tries. The reason, according to my mechanic, is that the BCM feeds the odometer and so you could, if you were not a reputable person, drive the car for more miles than are shown on the odometer before having the BCM re-programmed.
There may also be a maximum # of miles that the car can be driven before the BCM becomes "SECURED". I am not sure of this.
Solution is to tow the vehicle to the servicing dealer and don't turn the engine over. Make sure that the service technician is aware of this, otherwise the service dept. could cause the same problem by just moving the car around the service bay 3 or 4 times.
Sorry for the delay getting back to you with the information you requested on 6/14. Among other things, I've been busy rewiring one of my circuits (power windows) so I can use my car for an upcoming class tomorrow thru Saturday. I was hoping for no rain in the forecast so I could use my motorcycle but of the 3 days, there is the possibility of rain on 2 of them.....I find no thrill getting wet on a motorcycle. Just a little bit ago, I now have my windows working again.
If I don't solve this BCM problem, I will be rewiring several other circuits also. My priority will be: 1 - back lift gate, 2 - power door locks, 3 - A/C. Think I can live without everything else. If I can get my hands on the wiring diagram for the 2 large connectors on the back of the center console fuse panel and the 3 connectors on the BCM, I am tinkering with opening my old BCM and hardwiring everything inside the BCM.......then I would have almost everything working with possibly the exception of the radio because of the built in "theft deterrent" feature I've been reading about. The solution to that will be to replace the radio with one of the latest and greatest radios now available. I could live with that. I TOTALLY refuse to take this car in to a dealership and give them any money to fix this. I've read too many stories about huge repair bills and not always a solution. The only money they will get from me is $80 if someone can prove to me that my new BCM has to be programmed before all of my features will work.
You should have your email shortly with the requested wiring diagrams. Any Q's, let me know. If you discover anything to help solve this mystery, I hope you will share.
i have a 2002 aztek and on the dash i see that there is an AUX button. this has to mean that there is a plug in somewhere for an ipod, right?? please help!
I took my '01 Aztek to a GM dealer this morning to diagnose similar electrical problems. The diagnostic said there is a "Loss of communication with BCM." They quoted $338 for the part plus $350 for labor. Almost $700 to fix! I said I would call back and let them know.
Then I started Googling and found this forum along with this tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself. The tutorial and the dealership both mention that it would need be reprogrammed after replacing.
I've already retrieved my car without them doing the work (though I had to pay $90 just for the diagnostic!). I want to give it a try myself, but my only concern would be getting it to back to the dealer (or other repair shop with the capability to reprogram). Will it start or not after replacing the BCM? If so, I'm willing to give it a try ($170 for part + a couple hours of my time < $700).
Any recommendations on where to buy the part from? The dealer told me part #15235418. I see it on an Amazon webstore for $170. I see it for $162 on BrightAuto.com too. Is that a reliable place to order from?
Welcome to the Bad BCM Club......hopefully the information found on this forum will help you solve your problem for the least amount of $$$ possible.
One word of warning.......hopefully you aren't afraid of a nice challenge as getting your bad BCM out out from the center console area will test your patience some but, it's definitely able to be removed in no more than an hour. I found my biggest problem with the removal was spreading the lower tab that faces the rear of the car......this one is very hard to see from the passenger side......and, the tab seems to bump up on part of the white inside part of the console housing. I had a neighbor come by to work from the drivers side......he slipped a small screwdriver between the fuse module/BCM combination and the holding bracket and once spread, was able to push the assembly toward me on the passenger side.
The link that you included in your note "tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself" did not lead me to a tutorial so I am not sure what you are looking at. If you need, I can forward you some darn good instructions that Joe (JPM1145) was kind enough to send to me. These are step by step complete with pix of critical steps in the process. It's quite possible that you already have this in your tutorial information.
To answer your question, after installing the new BCM, my car started up with no problem. As mentioned in my post (#229), everything was exactly the same as it was before replacing the BCM. All of the items that were not working previously were still not working. Like I mentioned in my post, it was as if I had put the old BCM back in instead of the new BCM. This is contrary to every post I've read here.......unless I've misunderstood which is certainly a possibility. For now, I am driving my car without getting it programmed as I am hesitant to put any more money until I get this confusion clarified. For all I know I have a different problem although I am at a loss to understand what that might be.
I ordered mine from BrightAuto.com.....came to $169 with shipping. It's an AC Delco unit.......the AC part # is 15235418. This is also the GM part #......both are shown on the box. It's covered by a 1 year warranty. Got my unit in 3 days.
Keep us up to date with your progress. One last thing, you didn't get into any detail about the problems you were experiencing.
My symptoms started with the back hatch not opening. By this I mean no sound or anything when trying either the remote, the dash release or even the key on the back. That started working not long after, but other symptoms started and that one returned. Other symptoms now are AC button does nothing, radio says LOCKED, dash light switches between "Service Vehicle Soon" and "Security". Also when I turn off the engine, instead of accessories staying available until timing out or the door opening, it powers off immediately. Remote key unlocking isn't working nor are the dashboard lights at night (and I've tried adjusting the interior knob).
I'm looking into another possibility or two, but may go ahead and buy the part and give it a go. Thanks for the feedback, Ron
One of the things that did tell me that it was the BCM was that I removed fuse #28 in the underhood fusebox and after about 30 seconds put it back in. In the early part of my problems, this fixed things for a few days. You might try that as it is a simple thing to do. Fuse #28 controls the BCM and removing for a while evidently resets it. You can also check eBay for the part, although that can take time. I bot mine on eBay for $78, brand new. Maybe you could make a deal with RonMan811 who bot one and it did not help. Joe
I would suggest that, although it may be possible that your BCM is bad, it may have been caused by a problem with wiring to the computer. My mechanic found that the wiring harness going to the BCM was rubbing on a metal hanger. The insulation had worn off and the wire was bare causing a ground, causing an unrecoverable crash of the BCM.
I have a 2001 Aztec with starting issues. About a year and a half ago I started having this problem. When I attempted to start the Aztec, it would not start, no clicking, turning over, nothing. When I released the key to the run position I had all my lights, radio, power windows ect. The key was locked into the ignition. I found that if I keep trying the ignition over and over it will eventually start. Some times it will fire right up, some times it will start and then die, then I have to keep trying the ignition over and over. I have tried to find the common denominator for why and when this happens. It is very inconsistant. Some times I can go several weeks without a problem, sometimes it happens several times throughout the day. There are also times that I will be actually driving the car and it will shut down. Never had this happen while doing a freeway speed, but several times while driving around town. Obviously it won't start back up, so I have to coast to a stop and then do my routine to get it started. I have noticed that when it is hot outside, like during the summer, it acts up more frequently. Sometimes when I finally get it to start, the traction control system will be turned off, and there will be a message reading Service traction control. Other times when I finally get it to start there will be a message reading, Security and I do not have any gauges working except the speedometer. Also the air conditioner will not turn on (but the fan will), and I can't turn on the radio. During this I do have all my lights and turn signals. Still other times when I get it to start there are no messages or other problems. I have also found instead of trying and trying to start the car, if I hold the key in the start position for a while (sometimes a long while, sometimes short) I will start. There is one thing that I have just started to notice. When I am trying and trying to start the car, or holding the key in the start position, just before it finally starts, I hear a little "click". I have actually heard this "click" while I was just sitting there taking a break from trying to start it. The key was in the on position, and I heard the "click" so I tried to start it, and it started. I am encouraged that mine is not the only one that has done this. If you have any insight, I'd love to hear from you. I am going to try to check out the battery cable and the hot wires into the fuse boxes like someone suggested. Thanks for your time.
Interesting, I also have a 2002 Aztek, about 61000 miles, and just in the last week or so started experiencing what sounds exactly like what you're describing. I second, any ideas out there about what that is?
In my case, the right wheel hub assembly needed to be replaced. Interestingly, the driver's side now seems to be doing the same thing and I read it's a known problem with 2002 Azteks. It costs about $350 to fix it, or maybe more if it gets so bad it affects something else (I'm not a mechanic so I don't know) but you may be able to work with your dealership on that because they know it's an Aztek problem. The lower intake gasket manifold did not do anything that would let me know it was leaking, but I found out about that when I took the car in for the hub.
my air conditioner controll switch just stopped working I took it to the shop and they are telling me that It's the air conditioner head switch which cost $500.00 plus dollars to fix it , of course not covered in our Gold Coverage Warranty. Does anyone have any suggestions.
My 2003 pontiac aztek's a/c and heater fan control switch stopped working.I took it to shop and they said it was the a/c head switch, and it would cost $400 for part and around $100 for labor. I'm low on funds right now and was thinking about getting one from a junkyard. how hard is it to replace myself.
I really like my 2002 Aztek, which is why I'm willing to go to such lengths to save it. The bad BCM was a little amusing when it was setting off the alarm and flashing the lights. However, it has now locked the windows shut. Not really pleasant here in FL when the AC is only working part time. I urge every one with this problem to go to www.NHTSA.dot.gov and file a formal complaint. If enough people complain, maybe they will make this a recall and we can be reimbursed for some of the money it takes to fix this problem. In the complaint, stress the safety issues this is causing, i.e.: gauges going blank, doors and windows locking, etc. Also, to those who have had to replace the intake manifold gasket, there is a class action lawsuit against GM and the dexcool antifreeze. Those of us with older models won't get much back for the cost of fixing, but something is better than nothing. Go to: www.dexcoolsettlement.com "you will need to send copies of repair records and vehicle registration. Again, I urge everyone to go to NHTSA and complain about the BCM issue. Numbers really do make a difference and the more we complain, the better chance of them doing something about this.
I want to inspect this wiring harness myself, do you guys know where it's located? Or is there some maintenance guide to the Aztek? I'm not big into cars, but I am a computer engineer so I might be able to fix mine.
I've been having this ABS/TractionControl problem for over a year now and have just been ignoring it (yes, it's dangerous) because I'm sick of fixing this car. I took it in for a noise issue and the mechanic told me to just drive the thing until it cant run anymore.
Unfortunately it cant run now. I had the ABS/Traction control system light come on again and now my car wont start for me. I turn the key and nothing happens. The battery is fine, everything seems normal, it's like the starter is disabled. The weird thing is that it seems like it's drawing current still, the engine is just not turning.
Does anyone know where this harness is or any ideas how to debug the engin not turning?
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Thanks
For the tent, it is my belief the official one is no longer being made. You may still be able to find one online somewhere via a google search, or you may want to consider an alternative such as the sportz tent for mid-size suvs (one of those fitz many vehicle things). They don't fit quite as neatly, but reasonable, and can be left up if you are camping more the one day and want to drice around elsewhere.
With a little measurement you can find a mattress other then the official one also that will work ok.
Then, I decided to buy a new battery as I still had the original installed. I was quite pleased when everything worked perfectly and figured my BCM problems might be cared for. After approx 1 week, ALL of the BCM problem items returned all at the same time. Additionally, there was one day soon after that the car wouldn't start (with the new battery!!!!).......this was an entirely new problem. My first thought was that I had corroded connections coming off the battery......the positive lead going to the fuse box in the engine compartment and the negative going to the frame in front of the battery. I cleaned these both up as the surface on the fuse box (positive) and the cable ends (positive and negative) were quite dull. When I did this, the car started but all the other BCM problem items listed above remained.
Because everything worked so well after the new battery was installed, I am not 100% convinced I have a bad BCM and am thinking there is a small possibility I may have a bad connection or wire somewhere. Additionally, I would hate to buy a new BCM (now $170) and have it programmed (approx $80) only to find out that this isn't the problem. I read that 75% of the BCMs returned to the manufacturer (Motorola) under warranty were not defective and the most common reasons for this were listed as: wrong module replaced, service procedure not followed, wiring problems or system issues.
Is anyone aware of the GM diagnostic routine for trouble shooting a potentially faulty BCM? I was able to find some wiring diagrams (power distribution, window circuit, a/c circuit, etc) from my local library's ARRC (Auto Repair Reference Center) which I was able to access (and print) from my home computer and have begun to look at them to see if I can understand all the inputs and outputs to the BCM. If I find them not to be complete, does anyone know where I can get detailed layouts of the Aztek's electrical circuits even if there is a small fee for them? Worst, case, I'd like to see if I have 12 volts coming in to the BCM.......and then see where don't I have the proper voltage coming out.
I am hoping someone can forward me the info (location, pix, items to disassemble, tips, etc) about how to get at the BCM which I understand to be under the cup holder in the center panel. Whether I do my voltage readings and find a different problem or end up replacing the BCM, I am going to have to get at the BCM, so I would REALLY appreciate if someone could get me this info.
In turn, I will keep this forum updated with the results of my trouble shooting. Who knows what new information might be uncovered about this unfortunate problem.
For any of you interested in seeing some GM tech information about this problem, check out link title and either click on the Motorola BCM link in the gray Table of Contents area at the top of the page or just scroll down until you see the article "Motorola Body Control Modules". Some interesting reading.
In advance, Thank You,
Ron
I also think its important to add that the BCM I took out showed no signs of problems from the outside, no corrosion on it or the fuse junction box, but then I've never had a computer last 7 years either(I own a 2001).
Thanks, Brenda
Bill
The BCM was programmed through the dealer so I assumed they matched the key -- although it was the wives key, not mine. Not sure that makes a difference.
Joe
Thank you
Thanks to JPM1145's information packet, I was able to get the original BCM out of the car with relative ease so I could get an understanding of how I was going to attack the task of measuring the voltages in and out of the BCM. As mentioned in my 6/4 post, I was doing this to satisfy myself that I had a bad BCM and not some other problem (wiring, a different module, etc). After seeing all the wires in the 3 connectors on the end of the BCM and the two large connectors (one light gray, the other black) on the back of the center console fuse panel, I could see I was in for a sizable task. After thinking more, I decided to simplify the task by only measuring the incoming voltages for components that were not working that were BCM related (see the Motorola BCM article at link title - mediawurks.com/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLcme.html#story6).
To do this, I had to reinstall the original BCM and started working at the center console fuse panel. After hooking the negative lead of my voltmeter (using an alligator clip) to the passenger center door hinge, I then touched the positive lead of my voltmeter to the little tiny circles of metal at the top of each of the plastic fuses (on either side of where the amp rating is stamped) and found 12 volts (approx) at fuse 3 (power door locks), fuse 13 (liftglass and endgate), fuse 37 and 38 (both radio related), fuse 41 (instrument panel cluster, HVAC control, security LED and remote keyless entry module), fuse 42 (Pass-Key III) and fuse 43 (BCM). These were the components that were not working for me.
There was only one situation that I found 0 volts and that was for fuse 28 (power windows) which is an enclosed metal fuse which I temporarily substituted a spare 30 amp plastic fuse like all the others. I tested my theory with another metal enclosed fuse (#11) and here I had 12 volts. From the wiring diagrams, I traced fuse 28 back to RAP relay 33 in the engine compartment fuse block where I found 12 volts. For now, I am a loss as to how to explain the 0 voltage at fuse 28 of the center console fuse panel (power windows). With the one exception, this told me that power was getting from the battery to the center console fuse panel which then fed the BCM itself.
I did not have a wiring diagram that told me which of the wires at the 3 multi-wire connectors coming out of the BCM or the 2 large connectors (one light gray, one black) were for my non-working components so at this point I made the decision that it was a pretty good chance that it had to be the BCM.
Earlier this week I ordered a replacement BCM from BrightAuto.com for $169 including the shipping cost. It arrived in 2 days and is now installed. When starting the car, I was quite disappointed to see that absolutely nothing had changed.
I would appreciate hearing from others that could tell me that they also saw no improvements with their new BCM installed until they got it programmed by a Pontiac dealer. I'd hate to throw away another $80 to have this done if it will not make a difference.
A question for Bill Kitt.....are you able to tell me what the diagnostic procedure is that the dealerships use?......or is this propriatary information? I had asked that in my 6/4 post but did not hear back from anyone.
Again, all responses are appreciated.
Joe
I'd like your write up on the installation of the BCM for my 2001 Aztek if you can send it.
Thanks,
Dave
By a stroke of sheer luck, I came across an article about the class-action suit regarding this when I received my latest issue of "Parents" today. I have done some research this evening, and have seen in some forums that the repairs needed to be completed before 5/30/08. I've also read through the information on the dexcoolsettlement website, and couldn't find any 'cut-off' dates other than when you can file a claim, or the amount you get depending on when you had the repair done. If I am to receive the max amount they will offer, I need to get this fixed before 7/05/08. This will be the 5th anniversary of my purchase. Talk about cutting it close!!
So my question is, have I really passed the cut-off date for reimbursement, or should I at least try to get some money out if this? My step-father works for GM, and when I called him tonight, he mentioned possibly going to my dealer and asking them about a 'silent warranty' for this type of repair??? Anyone have any experience with that?
Any and all advice is appreciated!
Kim
The Secret Warranty
I'm not sure I qualify for the "dealer-loyalty" thing, though. We moved out-of-state for a few years just 2 years after I purchased the vehicle, but before that, I went to my dealer for everything. Now we are back in the same 'general' area as before, but far enough away that it's inconvenient to visit my old dealership. I will definitely have it looked at by a Pontiac dealer closer to my home now, though!
Joe
Here's the link:
Pontiac Aztek BCM removal and installation
There may also be a maximum # of miles that the car can be driven before the BCM becomes "SECURED". I am not sure of this.
Solution is to tow the vehicle to the servicing dealer and don't turn the engine over. Make sure that the service technician is aware of this, otherwise the service dept. could cause the same problem by just moving the car around the service bay 3 or 4 times.
If I don't solve this BCM problem, I will be rewiring several other circuits also. My priority will be: 1 - back lift gate, 2 - power door locks, 3 - A/C. Think I can live without everything else. If I can get my hands on the wiring diagram for the 2 large connectors on the back of the center console fuse panel and the 3 connectors on the BCM, I am tinkering with opening my old BCM and hardwiring everything inside the BCM.......then I would have almost everything working with possibly the exception of the radio because of the built in "theft deterrent" feature I've been reading about. The solution to that will be to replace the radio with one of the latest and greatest radios now available. I could live with that. I TOTALLY refuse to take this car in to a dealership and give them any money to fix this. I've read too many stories about huge repair bills and not always a solution. The only money they will get from me is $80 if someone can prove to me that my new BCM has to be programmed before all of my features will work.
You should have your email shortly with the requested wiring diagrams. Any Q's, let me know. If you discover anything to help solve this mystery, I hope you will share.
Ron
Then I started Googling and found this forum along with this
tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself. The tutorial and the dealership both mention that it would need be reprogrammed after replacing.
I've already retrieved my car without them doing the work (though I had to pay $90 just for the diagnostic!). I want to give it a try myself, but my only concern would be getting it to back to the dealer (or other repair shop with the capability to reprogram). Will it start or not after replacing the BCM? If so, I'm willing to give it a try ($170 for part + a couple hours of my time < $700).
Any recommendations on where to buy the part from? The dealer told me part #15235418. I see it on an Amazon webstore for $170. I see it for $162 on BrightAuto.com too. Is that a reliable place to order from?
Thanks for the input.
One word of warning.......hopefully you aren't afraid of a nice challenge as getting your bad BCM out out from the center console area will test your patience some but, it's definitely able to be removed in no more than an hour. I found my biggest problem with the removal was spreading the lower tab that faces the rear of the car......this one is very hard to see from the passenger side......and, the tab seems to bump up on part of the white inside part of the console housing. I had a neighbor come by to work from the drivers side......he slipped a small screwdriver between the fuse module/BCM combination and the holding bracket and once spread, was able to push the assembly toward me on the passenger side.
The link that you included in your note "tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself" did not lead me to a tutorial so I am not sure what you are looking at. If you need, I can forward you some darn good instructions that Joe (JPM1145) was kind enough to send to me. These are step by step complete with pix of critical steps in the process. It's quite possible that you already have this in your tutorial information.
To answer your question, after installing the new BCM, my car started up with no problem. As mentioned in my post (#229), everything was exactly the same as it was before replacing the BCM. All of the items that were not working previously were still not working. Like I mentioned in my post, it was as if I had put the old BCM back in instead of the new BCM. This is contrary to every post I've read here.......unless I've misunderstood which is certainly a possibility. For now, I am driving my car without getting it programmed as I am hesitant to put any more money until I get this confusion clarified. For all I know I have a different problem although I am at a loss to understand what that might be.
I ordered mine from BrightAuto.com.....came to $169 with shipping. It's an AC Delco unit.......the AC part # is 15235418. This is also the GM part #......both are shown on the box. It's covered by a 1 year warranty. Got my unit in 3 days.
Keep us up to date with your progress. One last thing, you didn't get into any detail about the problems you were experiencing.
My symptoms started with the back hatch not opening. By this I mean no sound or anything when trying either the remote, the dash release or even the key on the back. That started working not long after, but other symptoms started and that one returned. Other symptoms now are AC button does nothing, radio says LOCKED, dash light switches between "Service Vehicle Soon" and "Security". Also when I turn off the engine, instead of accessories staying available until timing out or the door opening, it powers off immediately. Remote key unlocking isn't working nor are the dashboard lights at night (and I've tried adjusting the interior knob).
I'm looking into another possibility or two, but may go ahead and buy the part and give it a go. Thanks for the feedback, Ron
You can also check eBay for the part, although that can take time. I bot mine on eBay for $78, brand new. Maybe you could make a deal with RonMan811 who bot one and it did not help.
Joe
But, our format really isn't set up for buying and selling - eBay is a better bet.
I want to inspect this wiring harness myself, do you guys know where it's located? Or is there some maintenance guide to the Aztek? I'm not big into cars, but I am a computer engineer so I might be able to fix mine.
I've been having this ABS/TractionControl problem for over a year now and have just been ignoring it (yes, it's dangerous) because I'm sick of fixing this car. I took it in for a noise issue and the mechanic told me to just drive the thing until it cant run anymore.
Unfortunately it cant run now. I had the ABS/Traction control system light come on again and now my car wont start for me. I turn the key and nothing happens. The battery is fine, everything seems normal, it's like the starter is disabled. The weird thing is that it seems like it's drawing current still, the engine is just not turning.
Does anyone know where this harness is or any ideas how to debug the engin not turning?
Thanks,
Dave