Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.
Are Toyota's recent quality problems just a glitch?
My grandparents had a 92' Taurus that they bought from my folks in 95'(Dad's company car) when they moved to N.C. They just replaced it in 2003 after it was wrecked in an ice storm with something like 265 thousand miles. They drove it back and forth to N.E. once, even twice a year without breakdowns ever.
Original 3.8l motor, original head gasket and original transmission when it was taken away. They are currently racking up the miles on a 95' Taurus wagon because the first one was so good to them.
Funny how GM could build a decent 3.8 litre V-6 and Ford couldn't. I sure can't complain about the one in my '88 Park Ave! What's the fundemental difference between the Ford 3.8 and the GM 3800 engine?
There was a 210 on the cross country race the other night on Spike TV, if I recall the channel. A mixture of all kinds of cars doing a rally cross country with a Nissan on a flatbed truck and a Lamborghini(sp?) on a flatbed. They'd unload them to push them across the finish line! The 210 was a 57 black. It had only the thin chrome pieces on the sides. Right? Not filled in with buffed aluminum between the "sideways Y" shaped pieces.
GM just put more effort into its 3.8 V-6 than Ford did with its engine.
The perfect early late 1980s or early 1990s domestic car would have been a Ford Taurus or Mercury Sable with the GM 3.8 V-6 and automatic transmission.
...does "210delray" refer to the middle line Chevrolet from the 1950s or is it some reference to another car? The Chevrolet lineup was the low-end 150, mid-level 210, and the top end Bel Air until 1958. Then it became Del Ray, Biscayne, Bel Air, and Impala. This might seem silly, but I've always assumed your name was some reference to the low-end 1958 Chevrolet.
When I saw that cross country race TV show, I recognized the basic model of 57 Chev and wondered the same thing. After I posted for 210DelRay, I went searching.
The models were 150, 210, BelAire. The DelRay was an interior option for the 210. To quote Wiki, "upgraded vinyl upholstery with "waffle-like" pleating, color-keyed to the exterior, along with carpeting and other minor upgrades." The option name started in 1954 and in 1958 became a model line: DelRay, Biscayne, BelAire, and Impala.
150
210
So our friend here, who drives a Toyota :confuse: , has an upscale but midline Chev name.
I would love to have a few classic 60's Chevies in my garages and am pondering a 65'Chevy II restoration opportunity this summer but I wouldn't go near a GM product built in the past 25 years.
My older cousin had a yellow/black 56 when I was a youth. My brother-in-law had a 57 in baby blue and white (a 210, I'd guess). It rattled like a junkpile. We had Fords and they didn't rattle nearly as much. We lived in an area of rough roads. But I still love the 55 and 56, and like the 57 a lot. I'll try to get a picture of both from the sides. I'm not sure if they're for sale. They're outside a shop some days in our area.
The models were 150, 210, BelAire. The DelRay was an interior option for the 210. To quote Wiki, "upgraded vinyl upholstery with "waffle-like" pleating, color-keyed to the exterior, along with carpeting and other minor upgrades." The option name started in 1954 and in 1958 became a model line: DelRay, Biscayne, BelAire, and Impala
Actually, the top line was spelled "Bel Air." My mother had a '55 210 Delray club coupe (2-door sedan); hence my user name. It was baby blue with a white roof. Beautiful car -- wish we'd held onto it. On the car itself, the only nameplate was "Chevrolet."
The '57 210 has that year's side chrome trim from the Bel Air without the aluminum fill-in. The '57 150 adopted the side chrome from the '55 210 and Bel Air models.
As you can see from my profile, I grew up on GM iron, but now drive 2 Toyota Camrys and a Nissan Frontier. My mother also has switched to a Toyota Camry. And my wife had a '75 Toyota Corolla when I met her.
This was posted at another site: Although we've barely passed mid-February, Toyota has already recalled 533,417 vehicles this year in a mix that, according to http://www.AutoRecalls.us, includes Tundras Sequoias and Camrys. That puts Toyota on track to recall more than the over 1.76 million autos they recalled in the U.S. and Japan in 2006, and the 2.2 million they recalled in 2005 when they recalled more cars than they built.
What's more, the current recall related to the Turdra trucks and Sequioa SUVs is similar to the same defect in 800,000 of the same vehicles in 2005.
Maybe somebody at Toyota isn't paying attention?
Hopefully the American consumers are. Recall numbers by domestic companies (GM and Ford) so far this year are as follows: Ford, 128,163; Chevrolet,4,829; and Pontiac, 1,602. Chrysler - a German company masquerading as an American company with plans to start importing cars from China in 2008 - has recalled 77,432 vehicles so far in 2007.
The GM 3800 engine is basically a small block Buick V-8 with 2 cyl lopped off, Designed for Buick's compact Special and Skylark in 1960. I'm not sure of the Ford engine's pedigree.
Recalls don't really bother me too much unless it's for something that shows blatantly bad design. If anything it tells me that a company is trying to stand behind its product. When you have thousands and thousands of parts that are increasingly more complex, I expect them.
More important to me is how the company handles the problems when it finds them. If it tries to sweep them under the rug until forced to issue the recall or make things right, that bothers me. For example how Toyota handled the Sludge problem and how Ford handled the explorer fiasco and the power problems on their 99 Cobra (which I own). How the service departments handle the problems is also of more concern than just having a recall.
My car had 3 recalls, 2 of which made me begin to distrust Ford. One was a rear knuckle in the suspension that could cause the wheel to fall off (WTF?), the other was a lack of HP as advertised which owners were forced to sue to get corrected. The most frustrating thing about it was that the dealer wanted to keep my car for 8 days to do two minor recalls, even after making an appointment and giving the recall #'s in advance. No loaner was offered. When I told them I'd come get the car and bring it back when the parts were in, I was told they would have to send the parts back and reorder when I brought the car in again.
Again, for me it's not the number of recalls, it's what the recalls are for and how the company handles them.
I believe it is an offshoot of the German V6. Called here the "Cologne". Actually a very successful engine with one serious maintenance related problem. Most if no all the broken head and blown head gasket problems, (and this is about the only engine complaint) were because someone didn't bother to read the book on how to fill the coolant system when drained. Small shop after small shop, to say nothing about us DIY types, did not follow the instruction.
To fill the back of the head, you had to first pour coolant down the loosetend upper radiator hose. If you didn't it left a big bubble back there which allowed the heads, primarily the left hand side to overheat, without showing on the temp guage. If you weren't running hard and long, you may get away with only a head gasket; otherwise at some point when the engine was well heated, you would back off the gas, and hear a big "Crack" sound, as the coolant finally found its way into the bubble, and being much cooler, caused the head to break. Very commonly people would say "and I just had it serviced and the anti freeze replaced". Properly maintained, to this V6 was the first domestic 250,000 mile engine. Not particularily powerful, reasonably economical, very cheap to repair/rebuild, started as 2.8 then 2.9, 3.0, 3.8, 4.0 and who knows how many other versions.
I believe it's a completely different animal than that etymology might indicate to those not in the know. In some discussions people much more knowledgeable than I on the evolution have detailed the steps. I'll see if I can come up with that.
"Properly maintained, to this V6 was the first domestic 250,000 mile engine."
Where did you get this information from? Since when is there a time frame on how long an engine will last. You could find many GM 6 cylinder as well as even import 6 cylinder engines that could reach this or further. As with 4 cylinder engines, there is no exclusive 200,000 mile club as long as the engine is maintained.
Sigma transmissions for some of Cadillac's Sigma platform cars are built in FRANCE. The highly anticipated release of the 2008 Cadillac CTS will have it's transmission built in FRANCE
Realizing these sweeping changes, even a diehard foreign origin car guy like me may soon purchase a Caddy. __________________________
Thats OLD news !!!! That bulletproof GM transmission has been built overseas by the "frogs" for several years now. Not to mention being used by several NON-GM brands....... I wonder if all of the GL-50 production is being transferred there?
Perhaps toyota should give up their current troublesome auto unit in the new camry and use a GM unit!
My Prius has had a few recalls over the 3 plus yrs I've owned it. Given it is a Hybrid and I expected some possible differences from other cars. One recall was just to recalibrate the onboard computer. Another recall was for modification to the unusual "bladder" gastank. Another recall was for steering unit. Other than that the Prius has been exemplary in duty, form and function. I figure over $3,000 minimum savings each and every year in gas $$$.
I almost lost the swallow of coffee I was sipping when I read the statement, "At Toyota, we have a practice of disclosing problems quickly and with the highest priority,..." by the CEO at the SAE. Does that apply to sludge, transmission hesitation, flares?
Don't forget the embarrassing apology to the Japanese people for the steering problem cover-up. That was nearly a million vehicles around the world last year. Didn't they wait until someone died to recall that known problem. With the sludge and poor transmissions they just waited with fingers crossed hoping the cars would last out the warranty.
I got a chuckle out of Watanabe on that one also. In the picture he looks like a stupid teenager with a baseball cap down to his ears.
Recalls and minor problems were received with a sense of..."we want you satisfied." That's been my experience with my local dealership (Lakeshore Toyota in N.W. Indiana). Not only do they deliver on service, product and trust, they go out of their way to give me a desire to come back again for my next car. Of course owning a Prius puts my car-buying out there in the distant future. One thing though, I think the steering recall may need additional attention. All in all I have to say that with nearly 58K miles I never expected such a top shelf car for the $$$.
From my limited experience Toyota has had problems long before recent times.
I owned a 1986 Toyota pick-up and it was the worst piece of junk I have ever owned. In 10 years it blew out 7 (yea, seven) alternators, It had rusted completely through in just 3 years, blew two head gaskets before 40K and nickel and dimed me every other week with minor problems.
Parts were double the price of same vintage domestics. I once needed a muffler hanger (a small piece of metal like a piece of a coat hanger) and was told it would be $60 and another $100 to install. Oh, and it would take 6 weeks to arrive!
At 120k miles with the fenders actually flapping in the breeze this junker developed a severe lack of power which no one could figure out. Rather than spend thousands of dollars replacing everything from the cat. converter to the transmission I sold it for $200 (took me a month to find someone to take it).
The poor fool almost got killed 2 months later when the brakes suddenly failed and he crashed.
I also have a 1985 Ford F-150 with 250K on it and it still runs fine.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Seriously though, I don't see how anyone can look at todays cars and todays technology, with all the "formed" plastic and aerodynamic engineering and yet dismiss some of the years in American automotive design as "ugly". People like myself missed out on that era and yet looking at a 55 Chevy evokes more emotion that about 90% of the cars on the market today...
Counterpoint: my boss still has his 1986 Toyota pick-up (2WD), which is now at 240K miles, owned since new. No repairs as yet to the powertrain (5-speed manual), one new clutch over the years. He still uses it on weekends for home improvement duties and hauling to the dump, tells me it runs like a top and when his current SUV finally gets sold, he is seriously thinking about not replacing it, and just returning the '86 to daily driver duty.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm with you there. My favorite is still the 1957 Chevy Nomad. What classic lines.
I am having a difficult time finding a car today that I like. The last vehicle that really turned me on was the early 90s Lexus SC300/400 series. I find most vehicles today as grotesque visions conjured up in a drug controlled mind. Nothing out there says open your wallet and buy me. Aside from a Carrera or 550 Maranello. The wife says I am too old for those.
Heres a great comment from a current owner of another problematic 07 camry owner at Edmunds: I narrowed down my choices to the camry and the accord before I bought the camry.BIG MISTAKE.This is the worst car I have ever owned.How long do I give Toyota to fix it and what is my next option ?
And other one of many: Will never buy Toyota again....last new one I had had > $6K in waranty work.....current 2 GM vehicles = zero defects...very happy...great mileage....low price....
These are from the last couple of days.............. But what I LOVE the most is the fellow toyota fanboys with their "toyota is God and has no issues" mantra bustin' on these poor folks as being "trolls or troublemakers" posting here looking for help, answers and sympathy.................... :sick:
Big whoop -- 133 cars recalled! Is that about a couple of hours' worth of production?
And one or two negative ownership experiences mean squat! I'm sure I could pull ANY recent make/model name out of a hat and find someone on Edmunds badmouthing it!
As my algebra teacher would have asked, "What is the denominator?"
bustin' on these poor folks as being "trolls or troublemakers"
When people bash GM it is just telling the truth. When someone is unhappy with a ToyLex it is heresy. You do not want to go into the hybrid forum if you have a problem with your Toyota hybrid. They will do one of two things. Totally ignore you or call you a liar. It took a year to accept the stalling problem on the Prius Threads. One poor lady bought a Prius and and the NAV screen went out just past the warranty. The retort was "how stupid that you did not buy an extended warranty". It will catch up with Toyota.
i have encountereed multiple problems @< 5K mi. tranny slips, in cold weather carr shakes over 60MPH, pickup is horrible, gas mileage sucks, defog doesnt work
dealer says their techs cannot fix any of my problems because they cant find the cause,,,
Let's face it: no carmaker is going to please 100% of its customers 100% of the time. I'm signed on to most of the Prius forums and I haven't seen the backlash you've mentioned.
Some people have real problems with their Toyotas. I try to help where I can (forget electricals -- luckily Kiawah is there for the rescue). Others have problems with their GM cars.
Then there are those who, for want of a better word, have "car hypochondria." Every squeak, every rattle, sometimes any potential malady suggested by someone else, is a cause for angst and gnashing of teeth.
Like me, you must remember the bad old days of carbs and chokes when you were lucky that your car even started in the morning.
I have followed this forum in the hybrids from the get go. Those with Prius problems are not treated warmly. In the diesel forum people have problems with their VW TDI and several guys offer assistance. A whole different atmosphere. It comes from those that think Toyota is above reproach.
That 07 camry thread has HUNDREDS !!!!!!!!!!!! Sure is a lot for a car that has been out a few months! I can ignore the squeeking seat or rattling dashboard posts (of which there are a LOT !!!!!!!!!!)
But the auto. transmission "flare", hesitation issues sure are a hoot !!!!!!!!!
And I love the yota fanboys bustin' hard on anyone that DARES to post any problem............Sad.......... :sick: Yet trumpet the toyota virtues of "quality" on other threads..............
That 07 camry thread has HUNDREDS Just out of curiosity about those "hundreds" of problems. Are there a hundred different folks talking about their individual problems? Or..........are we seeing relatively few folks talking about their problems "hundreds" of times? I think it's more the latter myself.
Oh, and about that "sad" comment? What's really sad IMO is when people have to stoop to cheap shots like that to defend their thoughts and ideas.
Well, a lot of the comments are arguments back and forth, not necessarily individual woes. Plus as I've repeated ad nauseum, the Edmunds' hosts themselves have said many times that such "problems" boards can't be used as statistical indicators of reliability.
>Plus as I've repeated ad nauseum, the Edmunds' hosts themselves have said many times that such "problems" boards can't be used as statistical indicators of reliability.
And that would apply to other car discussions also, right, such as Ford, GM...? :confuse:
Of course, because the "problems" boards tend to draw those with complaints, not satisfied owners. I used to follow the Taurus problems board because I once owned a '90 Sable (Taurus rebadge). Lots of complaints, and I tried to be of assistance based on my experience with the car. But as you know, the Taurus was once the best selling car.
Well, I can understand loyalty to a particular make of automobile. I can also understand loyalists who support their choices with enthusiasm, and do so with rational, honest, (and believable) vigor. What I don't understand is how some who claim to be enthusiasts can get so far off center in these debates. Nine times out of ten, debates turn argumentative, civility goes out the door, and childish oneupmanship takes over. This forum is supposed to be a discussion about Toyota's quality, and whether or not some of the recent headlines are "Just a glitch". Sadly, what it seems to have turned into is a soap box for some who seem to want to use it to further a personal agenda.......to do as much harm to Toyota as they can. Makes one wonder if there's more to this than just free expression. Such is life I guess.
>Sadly, what it seems to have turned into is a soap box for some who seem to want to use it to further a personal agenda.......to do as much harm to Toyota GM, Ford, Chrysler as they can.
Your point is well-taken. You should read in the GM discussions how many people recite or synthesize stories about GMs they had troubles with in past and see how domination of discussions works there despite rules of the road.
I see Toyota's problems as a regression to the mean number of problems. The best-designed/styled cars they have are in the 90s where the size, appearance, and economy were great--before sludge and when they allegedly withheld recall information. It's interesting that some fans get really upset with that concept of the mean. But the quality problems and engineering problems cited here are representative of some problems existing somewhere.
Some have discussed whether the post here are representative of a cross-section of owners "out there"? I suspect it's closer than we think. I recall when another brand started having lots of problems a few years ago and the fans were rabid in treatment of anyone posting problems and anyone agreeing. But the reality is they existed and became known over months.
Whether the people of the demographics buying a particular car model are heavy computer users who know, understand, and are able to get on a discussion is such that they are the ones with problems or if they are they ones with positive attitudes come high water or hail, is up for grabs. I can argue both sides of which they were on that particular car. For the Camry, I see lots of older buyers in this area of the country (your experience may vary) and they are less likely to use the internet and are more easily put off by service writers who tell them it's normal or they will get used to it of the car will get used to them. The longer they drive, the more adjusted the driver becomes to a car's characteristics--and that's okay in some cases.
Comments
Original 3.8l motor, original head gasket and original transmission when it was taken away. They are currently racking up the miles on a 95' Taurus wagon because the first one was so good to them.
Sorry, didn't mean to get off track. :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Too bad about the drivetrain, because the original Taurus and Sable were very nice cars.
Ford should have had the ohc 3.0 V-6 out by 1989 at the lastest. And the tranny problems went on for way too long with those cars (and Windstar, too).
The perfect early late 1980s or early 1990s domestic car would have been a Ford Taurus or Mercury Sable with the GM 3.8 V-6 and automatic transmission.
The models were 150, 210, BelAire. The DelRay was an interior option for the 210. To quote Wiki, "upgraded vinyl upholstery with "waffle-like" pleating, color-keyed to the exterior, along with carpeting and other minor upgrades." The option name started in 1954 and in 1958 became a model line: DelRay, Biscayne, BelAire, and Impala.
150
210
So our friend here, who drives a Toyota :confuse: , has an upscale but midline Chev name.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm not sure why this would be confusing......he may very well have a nicely restored 210 DelRey in his garage.
Which I would find interesting and cool; but not confusing. What does current ownership of a Toyota have to do with it?
This isn't all or nothing here.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The models were 150, 210, BelAire. The DelRay was an interior option for the 210. To quote Wiki, "upgraded vinyl upholstery with "waffle-like" pleating, color-keyed to the exterior, along with carpeting and other minor upgrades." The option name started in 1954 and in 1958 became a model line: DelRay, Biscayne, BelAire, and Impala
Actually, the top line was spelled "Bel Air." My mother had a '55 210 Delray club coupe (2-door sedan); hence my user name. It was baby blue with a white roof. Beautiful car -- wish we'd held onto it. On the car itself, the only nameplate was "Chevrolet."
The '57 210 has that year's side chrome trim from the Bel Air without the aluminum fill-in. The '57 150 adopted the side chrome from the '55 210 and Bel Air models.
As you can see from my profile, I grew up on GM iron, but now drive 2 Toyota Camrys and a Nissan Frontier. My mother also has switched to a Toyota Camry. And my wife had a '75 Toyota Corolla when I met her.
Although we've barely passed mid-February, Toyota has already recalled 533,417 vehicles this year in a mix that, according to http://www.AutoRecalls.us, includes Tundras Sequoias and Camrys.
That puts Toyota on track to recall more than the over 1.76 million autos they recalled in the U.S. and Japan in 2006, and the 2.2 million they recalled in 2005 when they recalled
more cars than they built.
What's more, the current recall related to the Turdra trucks and Sequioa SUVs is similar to the same defect in 800,000 of the same vehicles in 2005.
Maybe somebody at Toyota isn't paying attention?
Hopefully the American consumers are.
Recall numbers by domestic companies (GM and Ford) so far this year are as follows: Ford, 128,163; Chevrolet,4,829; and Pontiac, 1,602. Chrysler - a German company masquerading as an American company with plans to start importing cars from China in 2008 - has recalled 77,432 vehicles so far in 2007.
More important to me is how the company handles the problems when it finds them. If it tries to sweep them under the rug until forced to issue the recall or make things right, that bothers me. For example how Toyota handled the Sludge problem and how Ford handled the explorer fiasco and the power problems on their 99 Cobra (which I own). How the service departments handle the problems is also of more concern than just having a recall.
My car had 3 recalls, 2 of which made me begin to distrust Ford. One was a rear knuckle in the suspension that could cause the wheel to fall off (WTF?), the other was a lack of HP as advertised which owners were forced to sue to get corrected. The most frustrating thing about it was that the dealer wanted to keep my car for 8 days to do two minor recalls, even after making an appointment and giving the recall #'s in advance. No loaner was offered. When I told them I'd come get the car and bring it back when the parts were in, I was told they would have to send the parts back and reorder when I brought the car in again.
Again, for me it's not the number of recalls, it's what the recalls are for and how the company handles them.
To fill the back of the head, you had to first pour coolant down the loosetend upper radiator hose. If you didn't it left a big bubble back there which allowed the heads, primarily the left hand side to overheat, without showing on the temp guage. If you weren't running hard and long, you may get away with only a head gasket; otherwise at some point when the engine was well heated, you would back off the gas, and hear a big "Crack" sound, as the coolant finally found its way into the bubble, and being much cooler, caused the head to break. Very commonly people would say "and I just had it serviced and the anti freeze replaced".
Properly maintained, to this V6 was the first domestic 250,000 mile engine. Not particularily powerful, reasonably economical, very cheap to repair/rebuild, started as 2.8 then 2.9, 3.0, 3.8, 4.0 and who knows how many other versions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanx geo9
Rocky
Where did you get this information from? Since when is there a time frame on how long an engine will last. You could find many GM 6 cylinder as well as even import 6 cylinder engines that could reach this or further. As with 4 cylinder engines, there is no exclusive 200,000 mile club as long as the engine is maintained.
Realizing these sweeping changes, even a diehard foreign origin car guy like me may soon purchase a Caddy.
__________________________
Facts about Sigma Transmissions
been built overseas by the "frogs" for several years now.
Not to mention being used by several NON-GM brands.......
I wonder if all of the GL-50 production is being transferred
there?
Perhaps toyota should give up their current troublesome
auto unit in the new camry and use a GM unit!
auto unit in the new camry and use a GM unit!
Other brands have used GM transmissions in the past along with air compressors. I wonder how many are doing that now? Who has data?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
read the last paragraph pal.
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/wip/1205wip04.html
Rocky
Pretty sure Bentley does also??????
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070420/AUTO01/704200370/1148-
Bob Carter, a former edmunds.com guest just got promoted. I discovered this website the day he was on almost 3 years ago.
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I got a chuckle out of Watanabe on that one also. In the picture he looks like a stupid teenager with a baseball cap down to his ears.
Rocky
Naaaaah. They wouldn't have done anything like that in the past--or present. Wouldn they?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They remind me of everything that's wrong with the U.S.A. today. Gluttony, obesity and tackiness. Why do those cars look so fat?
I owned a 1986 Toyota pick-up and it was the worst piece of junk I have ever owned. In 10 years it blew out 7 (yea, seven) alternators, It had rusted completely through in just 3 years, blew two head gaskets before 40K and nickel and dimed me every other week with minor problems.
Parts were double the price of same vintage domestics. I once needed a muffler hanger (a small piece of metal like a piece of a coat hanger) and was told it would be $60 and another $100 to install. Oh, and it would take 6 weeks to arrive!
At 120k miles with the fenders actually flapping in the breeze this junker developed a severe lack of power which no one could figure out. Rather than spend thousands of dollars replacing everything from the cat. converter to the transmission I sold it for $200 (took me a month to find someone to take it).
The poor fool almost got killed 2 months later when the brakes suddenly failed and he crashed.
I also have a 1985 Ford F-150 with 250K on it and it still runs fine.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Seriously though, I don't see how anyone can look at todays cars and todays technology, with all the "formed" plastic and aerodynamic engineering and yet dismiss some of the years in American automotive design as "ugly". People like myself missed out on that era and yet looking at a 55 Chevy evokes more emotion that about 90% of the cars on the market today...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am having a difficult time finding a car today that I like. The last vehicle that really turned me on was the early 90s Lexus SC300/400 series. I find most vehicles today as grotesque visions conjured up in a drug controlled mind. Nothing out there says open your wallet and buy me. Aside from a Carrera or 550 Maranello. The wife says I am too old for those.
Heres a great comment from a current owner of another problematic 07 camry owner at Edmunds:
I narrowed down my choices to the camry and the accord before I bought the camry.BIG MISTAKE.This is the worst car I have ever owned.How long do I give Toyota to fix it and what is my next option ?
And other one of many:
Will never buy Toyota again....last new one I had had > $6K in waranty work.....current 2 GM vehicles = zero defects...very happy...great mileage....low price....
These are from the last couple of days..............
But what I LOVE the most is the fellow toyota fanboys
with their "toyota is God and has no issues" mantra
bustin' on these poor folks as being "trolls or troublemakers" posting here looking for help, answers
and sympathy.................... :sick:
And one or two negative ownership experiences mean squat! I'm sure I could pull ANY recent make/model name out of a hat and find someone on Edmunds badmouthing it!
As my algebra teacher would have asked, "What is the denominator?"
When people bash GM it is just telling the truth. When someone is unhappy with a ToyLex it is heresy. You do not want to go into the hybrid forum if you have a problem with your Toyota hybrid. They will do one of two things. Totally ignore you or call you a liar. It took a year to accept the stalling problem on the Prius Threads. One poor lady bought a Prius and and the NAV screen went out just past the warranty. The retort was "how stupid that you did not buy an extended warranty". It will catch up with Toyota.
i have encountereed multiple problems @< 5K mi.
tranny slips,
in cold weather carr shakes over 60MPH,
pickup is horrible,
gas mileage sucks,
defog doesnt work
dealer says their techs cannot fix any of my problems because they cant find the cause,,,
Let's face it: no carmaker is going to please 100% of its customers 100% of the time. I'm signed on to most of the Prius forums and I haven't seen the backlash you've mentioned.
Some people have real problems with their Toyotas. I try to help where I can (forget electricals -- luckily Kiawah is there for the rescue). Others have problems with their GM cars.
Then there are those who, for want of a better word, have "car hypochondria." Every squeak, every rattle, sometimes any potential malady suggested by someone else, is a cause for angst and gnashing of teeth.
Like me, you must remember the bad old days of carbs and chokes when you were lucky that your car even started in the morning.
Enjoy your time in Hawaii!
Thank you, I have an early morning flight.
That 07 camry thread has HUNDREDS !!!!!!!!!!!!
Sure is a lot for a car that has been out a few months!
I can ignore the squeeking seat or rattling dashboard
posts (of which there are a LOT !!!!!!!!!!)
But the auto. transmission "flare", hesitation issues
sure are a hoot !!!!!!!!!
And I love the yota fanboys bustin' hard on anyone that
DARES to post any problem............Sad.......... :sick:
Yet trumpet the toyota virtues of "quality" on other
threads..............
Just out of curiosity about those "hundreds" of problems.
Are there a hundred different folks talking about their individual problems?
Or..........are we seeing relatively few folks talking about their problems "hundreds" of times?
I think it's more the latter myself.
Oh, and about that "sad" comment?
What's really sad IMO is when people have to stoop to cheap shots like that to defend their thoughts and ideas.
And that would apply to other car discussions also, right, such as Ford, GM...?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What I don't understand is how some who claim to be enthusiasts can get so far off center in these debates.
Nine times out of ten, debates turn argumentative, civility goes out the door, and childish oneupmanship takes over.
This forum is supposed to be a discussion about Toyota's quality, and whether or not some of the recent headlines are "Just a glitch".
Sadly, what it seems to have turned into is a soap box for some who seem to want to use it to further a personal agenda.......to do as much harm to Toyota as they can.
Makes one wonder if there's more to this than just free expression.
Such is life I guess.
ToyotaGM, Ford, Chrysler as they can.Your point is well-taken. You should read in the GM discussions how many people recite or synthesize stories about GMs they had troubles with in past and see how domination of discussions works there despite rules of the road.
I see Toyota's problems as a regression to the mean number of problems. The best-designed/styled cars they have are in the 90s where the size, appearance, and economy were great--before sludge and when they allegedly withheld recall information. It's interesting that some fans get really upset with that concept of the mean. But the quality problems and engineering problems cited here are representative of some problems existing somewhere.
Some have discussed whether the post here are representative of a cross-section of owners "out there"? I suspect it's closer than we think. I recall when another brand started having lots of problems a few years ago and the fans were rabid in treatment of anyone posting problems and anyone agreeing. But the reality is they existed and became known over months.
Whether the people of the demographics buying a particular car model are heavy computer users who know, understand, and are able to get on a discussion is such that they are the ones with problems or if they are they ones with positive attitudes come high water or hail, is up for grabs. I can argue both sides of which they were on that particular car. For the Camry, I see lots of older buyers in this area of the country (your experience may vary) and they are less likely to use the internet and are more easily put off by service writers who tell them it's normal or they will get used to it of the car will get used to them. The longer they drive, the more adjusted the driver becomes to a car's characteristics--and that's okay in some cases.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,