The Long-Haul warranty will cover all of those things if in fact your Santa Fe even has any of them when you start out. That's the thing about new vehicle purchases-you're taking a shot at a perfect vehicle when you buy new but it doesn't always happen. Cars sre very complex machines and Hyundai has warranted all of the important mechanical parts against their failure for you. I had my '99 Sephia recalled twice and had one part (the airbag control module)fail and have to be replaced. All of this work was done with very little inconvenience to me (I had to take a day or two off-thankfully I get pert-near a month of VAC every year!) and no cost whatsoever. I love my Sephia and I'm impressed with both Kia and my dealer. Hyundai and Kia are not the same makers they were several years ago. The Long Haul is their commitment to us that we don't need to worry about our car's mechanical workings and to just enjoy our rides. My Sephia doesn't have the Long-Haul but does have a warranty that I had extended to 100,000 miles bumper-to-bumper. It was worth it IMHO to pay for this. I never feel like my Sephia will leave me stranded and it's been a good performer. Hope this helps.
I read on every Car Forum and there are people mention about problem on the vehicle too. Even the X5, etc....So to speak; this is nothing much but every car have problem not just the Santa Fe. If you read the Escape the Tribute then you probably even heard it worst....I don't like to say bad thing about other...
I took a test drive over the weekend and really liked the vehicle except that the engine seemed sluggish and not too responsive. Had it up a big hill and with the downshift it had no problem at all, but on the flat out road it took a lot of pedal and RPM's to get it to pass a car going 55. The car wasn't prepped off the truck yet and that might have something to do with the very spongy brakes.
Didn't like the plastic door handles especially since I keep my car outside and the doors sometimes freeze. I can see my self pulling the handles off some cold winter day.
The price with AWD, upgrade stereo,cassette and CD, with crossbars, mats etc etc was 22,100. Sales guy said they are selling for list because they sell them right off the truck..I said I don't pay list and if they were selling so many how come I haave seen only 2 of them and that includes daily rides on the NJ turnpike, mall parking lits etc...
ON the 10-10 warranty. The guy said $1100. I said that was too much...anyone out there pay less for the 10-10 bumper to bumper.
Aside from the minor dislikes there were a lot of likes... thanks for the help Frank
I picked up my LX 4WD last Thursday and opted to tack on the extended warranty. The dealer quoted me $910.
As for the engine, I took mine for a 600 mile drive over the hills and valleys of western Pennsylvania this weekend and found the engine to be adequate...not great but not lame. It will give you some kick when you ask for it, but heading up steep grades it often downshifts to 2nd temporarily.
Tonight or tomorrow I'm going to take the time to post my observations on all of the aspects I can think of (gas mileage, seating space, etc.). All-in-all, after a two and a half month wait I'm very pleased.
PERPLEXED: You posted about alot of problems on the SF. I have several responses for you.
#1) ANY 1st year vehicle will not be 100% perfect. Look at some of the other 1st year SUV's out right now... Santa Fe has THE FEWEST problems of any 1st year out there.
#2) Of those problems, several of those posts were discussions of 1 instance.. so 1 problem could have 15 posts because of people discussing the issue. That is unfair to list every post.
#3) Hyundai was the biggest seller of the 2001 season... and Santa Fe had ALOT to do with that claim. For a vehicle that has sold so well.... for a freakin' HYUNDAI to be selling OVER LIST... and easily at that.. I am amazed.
#4) I have had VERY few problems with my Santa Fe. I had the timing belt issue, they adjusted it, replaced the cover, and it's been running fine since then.. except for the engine stutter at 40MPH. There just so happens to be a fix for that too. It is so simple it will only take 20 minutes. I need to have the firmware in the computer flashed with the latest software revision. That is supposed to fix the problem, I've heard nobody state that it hasn't.
#5) For an SUV that's $16-22k, it is AMAZINGLY reliable.
FKATU: you posted "on the flat out road it took a lot of pedal and RPM's to get it to pass a car going 55. The car wasn't prepped off the truck yet and that might have something to do with the very spongy brakes."
Mine seems to drive best at 70MPH.. and (i know, i'm bad) I've had it up to 110MPH.. I have the 2WD V4. It really enjoys going fast, and is nice & smooth at high speeds. I would test one that's been properly prepped.
As for the door handles, they are more solid than a Honda's. I'm in NY myself, and don't anticipate any problems with them. They are a rigid PVC type of plastic that won't easily break. I have however bent metal handles in the past.
you state: "Sales guy said they are selling for list because they sell them right off the truck..I said I don't pay list and if they were selling so many how come I haave seen only 2 of them and that includes daily rides on the NJ turnpike, mall parking lits etc..."
Well, it was the best selling SUV in it's class for 2001 model year. I see quite a few on the road now. The dealer never seems to have them on the lot for long.
As for the 10/100 B2B warranty, I'd say the average cost seems to be $1000, with some people paying as little as $875, and others as much as $1200. This is TOTALLY NEGOTIABLE.
I don't think so. The Santa Fe is a nice car, but the Ford and Mazda twins are leaving it in the dust in terms of sales. But that's only because Ford can produce much more Escapes than Hyundai's Santa Fe.
I read somewhere that Hyundai is even planning to open up a plant in the U.S. to help with demands.
Not only is the Santa Fe boosting sales for Hyundai, but so is its Elantra models (which I am seeing A LOT of on the road) and Elantra GT models (haven't seen one yet...neither at the dealership nor on the roads).
Actually, I can't find any stats to corraborate that fact. I can't find any stats on overall auto sales at all for so far this year. The only stats I can find are:
1) Hyundai continues to set new car sales records - Hyundai records, not overall records (mainly with elantra & santa fe).
2) Ford & GM both reported a DECREASE in sales so far this year. Except for the Ford Explorer, which is selling more vehicles than it did last year (tire probs & all!), and the TriScape.
3) Daimler/Chrysler had an increas in passenger car sales, but a decrease in suv sales. The Jeep Liberty however, is selling very well (according to them, I've yet to see one on the road).
4) I cannot find any sales statistics on the CR-V or the RAV4 so far this year. Personally, I don't see as many of them on the road as I used to... but there are still alot of them on the road... just very few NEW ones.
Personally, I can't wait to see the new Land Rover FREELANDER when it comes out over here this fall. It's in an entirely different class at around $40k, but it looks beautiful, and according to Motor Trend Magazine (the TV show), it handles like a dream. I was drooling over that thing.. if only i could get say... oh... a $20,000 raise, I might be interested in getting one myself! :-)
Hi all. After a two and a half month wait, I finally picked up my pewter LX 4WD last Thursday. Since this forum has been so helpful to me in my purchasing decision and process, I figured I would offer up some observations of my own. I've logged about 750 miles so far up and down the (occasionally very steep) hills of Western Pennsylvania. I've composed quite a few, so I might break this up into smaller posts. In any case, here are my thoughts (or lack thereof):
* Shiftronic - This feature is too fun and should not be used by anyone who is prone to bouts of giddiness. One practical note, though. I like being able to check on the automatic shifting by momentarily sticking into manual mode. In other words, I might be driving up a steep hill and think, "Hmmm, sounds like the engine is in 3rd. Is it?" I can just stick the car into Shiftronic mode for a moment and confirm that the transmission is doing what I think it's doing.
* Shiftronic (again) - Just another note....I've noticed while using the Shiftronic mode that I have a subliminal desire to pull the gear shift down when going from 1st to 2nd or 3rd to 4th, as one would normally do with a five-speed. Anybody else do this inadvertantly? It's not a big deal when in 1st, because when you pull down there's no downshifting that can be done, but downshifting from 3rd to 2nd when you really meant to shift up to 4th can be quite an eye-opener.
* Gawk factor - I pulled out the Hyundai lot for the first time and a guy test-driving a Jeep from the dealer down the street must have sprained his neck trying to read my name plate when I pulled up to the first stop light.
* Cruise control - My old Jeep had the cruise on the turn signal column, and with the SF's location I'm finding it easy to accidentally turn off the cruise by bumping the button. The location is very convenient, but it's something I need to adjust to.
* Leg and head room - I'm 6'6", so this was a priority for me. The head room is outstanding. I have about thee inches of clearance between my head and the ceiling and can easily wear a ball cap without making roof contact. The leg room is adequate, although I've found that my right knee rests up against the dash in a way that becomes uncomfortable on longer drives. That's nothing new for me, though.
More of my ramblings from my first few days with the Santa Fe:
* 7500 mile oil change? - According to the manual, the recommended maintenance calls for an oil change every 7500 miles. I know engine oil has progressed mightily over the past decade or so and the old "3 month/3,000 mile" rule is generally too strict nowadays, but 7,500 miles.....wow. Is anyone actually following this, or is 3,000-5,000 still the practice?
* Explanation of TCS in manual - This seemed jumbled and confusing. To paraphrase...."The TCS is off by default and if you want to turn it on then turn the vehicle off and then turn it on and then the TCS will be on until it's off." Or something like that.
* Engine power - Nothing to brag about, but adequate. My old Cherokee had to downshift to climb steep hills about as much as the SF does. If you want to drag race in your SUV, go for an Escape.
* Gas mileage - Gas mileage has been surprisingly good considering I'm still under the 1,200 mile break-in period. I'm currently averaging 22.1 mpg. Here's a tangent for anyone who owns a Palm device - I've been using a software program called TotalCar to track my mileage on my Palm Vx. It's a nice little program and only costs $10 to register, I think. So if anyone wants to track their auto information on their Palm device, check it out. You can also program reminders for maintenance, record repairs, etc.
* Stereo - I like the stereo quite a bit (cd/tape combo). I listen to sports stations on AM often and have found the reception to be good. One minor annoyance...removing a CD from the stereo resets the equalizer setting. So, if you had it on "jazz" and replaced the CD, you have to click it back over to jazz again from the default for the new CD.
* Stereo (again) - A puzzling observation....in the manual it says the equalizer rotates from classic to jazz to rock to "defeat". What in the heck is "defeat"? Did they meant to say "default", or have I missed out on some new, hip audiophile term?
* Cup Holders - They look deceptively small, but they can hold a super-sized Coke from McDonald's (for all of you who want a drink so big that puppies can drown in it). They also look shallow enough that a 20 oz bottle might tip over in them, but I put a bottle of Diet Pepsi in there and put it through some tight turns and brakes, and the bottle didn't budge an inch.
* Rain & gravel handling - I've been through two downpours so far when the sky has opened up and dumped copious amounts of water. The SF handled several inches of standing water on the highway without a problem at 45-50 mph. I also took it down some gravel trails and it has shown no signs of slippage. It handles beautifully.
Does anyone know what is the number of selling vehicle sell in Korea with the Following car: The Ford Escape, Honda CRV, RAV4, and Santa Fe...Which is sell more in Korea?...Well it is so obvious the Ford will sell more in its own local country as well as the Honda and Toyota have production build in US as well....
O.k., so the oil leak has been fixed. Wilson went back into the shop yesterday and was looked at and the hyundai big wigs were contacted as to the air bag light. What came out of that was that there is a 90% chance it is the "clock spring" in the steering column that is faulty and a replacement was ordered. This of course falls under the heading of murphys law that Sandiego hyundai parts warehouse is fresh out of clock springs and after a day of my car just sitting there now they will try LA.. At least this time there was no delay to getting a rent a car right off the bat with no fight. Don't get me wrong I love the car. Even though after owning it since July 12th and missing it for a total of five days Wilson and I are buds and I love the car. Of course my luck had to deal me another blow not related to the performance of the car but after a Padre game some %#@*& scraped my back bumper to the tune of $495. This is on hold to be fixed once I get the car back from the airbag woes. I figure while I am not driving it I might as well have the sunroof put in. As for the other most mentioned items on this board: no vibrations,17 mpg city/highway combined,no sulfer smell,all seems to be well and the v6 kicks but when I want it to.
That simply isn't true. Though I don't know what the sales data for the Santa Fe is in its native country, in today's market it's not always a case of 'home base' advantage.
Different parts of the world prefer different vehicle choices. In some areas of the world, a vehicle the size of a Santa Fe is considered to be very large. That population may prefer a smaller Ford Escape.
your little chart that you linked me ranks them by their June 2001 sales. If you re-rank them by Year to date, you'll see the santa fe coming in MUCH higher than #31.
it is not the color i wanted (on the inserts) so i might be taking it back for them to redo it. i initially asked that the inserts and door panel inserts match the window pillars and headliner.
people seem to like the color as it is though because it doesnt look too bad with the exterior color (sandstone)
you be the judge
(also slapped some rims on it in photoshop... my wife likes these.)
i did some research and made some calls... our SF rims are 5 x 114.3 with a 40mm offset and a 67.1 mm centerbore (huge) there are ALOT of vehicles with this bolt pattern (but smaller centerbores)
my brother has a set of 18 inch chromies in his yard that fit a lex... we are going to check it out this weekend.. maybe take a hole saw to the center. haha
oh yeah... also put some super white simulated HID h4 bulbs in the headlights.. what a difference... going to get the foglight bulbs next week.
>> your little chart that you linked me ranks them by their June 2001 sales. If you re-rank them by Year to date, you'll see the santa fe coming in MUCH higher than #31. <<
That's a bit of a stretch...I wouldn't exactly call 28th place MUCH higher than 31st, would you?
if you didnt buy one or arent planning on buying one... why are you even posting here (not saying this is the case... but you see what i am saying)
if the santa fe was dead last in sales i couldnt care less.
i have had NO problems with my new vehicle. it has over 7000 miles on it.
we got into a frontal offset collision with an 88 ford ranger at about 20 mph... no frame damage and even replacing the whole nose cost only 4000 bucks.
the guy at the body shop had a ford escape with almost the EXACT same hit and that car was totalled out by the insurance..
so does it matter if the guy next door and everyone in a 10 block radius bought a SF... not to me... just means i am not one of the herd...
'oh, there goes another one of those tin can escapes.'
My point has gone WAY OFF ON A TANGENT. My point is that there have been 24,000 Santa Fe's sold so far this year. You are bound to see SOME problems with those kinds of numbers, and I'm surprised at how FEW problems we've seen... and all of them very minor, with one or two rare & unusual posts several months ago being the exception.
And by the way diploid... there is a BIG difference between domestic & import truck sales. 83000 escapes sold, but only 23000 tributes. Same car, same company (although most people don't realize Ford owns Mazda), the US beats the "import". AND, that's with most reviews comparing the 2 vehicles favoring the sportier ride & handling of the Mazda. The top 10 sellers are all domestic trucks. There are only 9 imports in the top 25. Take a look at your own link.
Sure...try telling Hyundai that they shouldn't care how many Santa Fes are sold and see what their response is.
The point of my post was to clarify an inaccurate statement. When people post things like the Santa Fe being the best selling SUV in its class for 2001, well, expect to be called on it. Trouble is, when presented with actual facts many people get defensive and go ballistic.
the sole point of my post (irregardless of any other posts) is to say.... (is irregardless even a word???) haha 1. we are not hyundai or rival manufacturers. all i care about is if hyundai sold 1 SF. mine. i am concerned with THAT 1 SF... not the 23,999 others.
2. just because someone sells a lot of vehicles... quantity does not equal quality.
brand recognition and market saturation is the key here.
i DID NOT post my last response to reply to any specific post about numbers.. only to say... who cares? maybe the manufacturers.. but i doubt the consumer really gives two turds.
now look at my leather interior and give me some opinions.
Great leather seats. Good move on replacing the cloth with leather. Also, I like the gathered type of leather seating. A more comfortable plush feeling. Too bad Hyundai's leather seats weren't like that or they didn't have an option to get those.
In the end, though, you're the one that will have to be happy with the seats. Looks great and good luck on your decision.
Ford doesn't own Mazda. Ford owns Mercury and it owns Lincoln. It has a share in Mazda. As for the sales of the top 10 trucks...well this is America...what did you expect...eveyrone's going to go out and buy a small SUV when there's so much space out there?
Anyway, I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Your original post stated that the Hyundai Santa Fe was the best seller, which is hardly true at all. All I did was show you a link to the sales reports to disprove you. It's not like I insulted you or something, sheesh
diploid: I'm not getting defensive at all. I don't feel attacked, so why would I need to defend? Anyway, like I said that whole thread went on a tangent, and everyone keep posting about the tangent & not the point!!!! As for top 10 being domestic... you told hung:
"That simply isn't true. Though I don't know what the sales data for the Santa Fe is in its native country, in today's market it's not always a case of 'home base' advantage."
I was just pointing out that it IS TRUE, there IS a homebase advantage. The top 10 sales are of domestic vehicles. As for Ford owning Mazda... they sure do, they own a majority share of the stock. The majority shareholder is considered the owner.
Keith: I SURE CARE. How would you like it if it DIDN'T sell well? You can sure bet you'd have a serious problem getting replacement parts in the future, I can guarantee you that. I got burnt on a Daewoo. It took 9 days to get an alternator installed. 9 DAYS FOR AN ALTERNATOR!!! They had to ship one from Korea. And to top it off, the dealer I bought it from went under, I had to drive 45 minutes to the next closest one, and THEY DID NOT GIVE ME A RENTAL. Sales matter my friend.
Ford has a 33% stake in Mazda...that's a majority? Until Ford completely takes 100% of Mazda (like it did Volvo), Mazda will still be an autonomous and independent company from Ford.
"That simply isn't true. Though I don't know what the sales data for the Santa Fe is in its native country, in today's market it's not always a case of 'home base' advantage."
Like the case with the sales link, I specified that it was for the month of June this year. And yet you still pointed it out in your post. Redundant.
And here, I did say "...it's not ALWAYS a case of 'home base' advantage"---and you went out and confirmed that it was the case in the U.S. And that is true, but like I said, it's NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.
Um, yes. forget the June numbers alltogether. The YTD #'s still show Domestics dominating the chart. I gave YTD #'s comparing the Escape to the Tribute, not June #'s. Let me clarify the matter:
THIS YEAR, domestic suv's are dominating the imports in YTD sales numbers. PERIOD.
and, for the THIRD TIME... this WAS NOT THE POINT OF MY ORIGINAL POST.
ok.. i dont know what the hell people are talking about when i go into these stores... "oh.. santa fe.. we dont have any rims for that."
dummies.
i put an 18 x 8 set of chrome MOMOs from a lexus sc3000 on my SF tonight and they fit like a glove... tires were way too low profile though... 45 series. haha.
also for grins we slapped on my brother's chrome 5 star 17x9 mustang cobra r rims....
those fit sweetly too.
i didnt have a camera with me though... sorry.
looks like a whole new world of options have opened up with regards to rims... especially being here in NYC... wink wink. very cool. time to watch the classifieds.
It's a Ford website...what did you expect. Go to an unbiased source and you will see:
"Ford Motor started a manufacturing revolution with its mass production assembly lines in the early 1900s. Now Ford is firmly entrenched in the status quo as the world's largest pickup truck maker and the #2 maker of cars and trucks, behind General Motors. It makes vehicles under the Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Lincoln, Mercury, and Volvo brands. Two of its biggest successes are the Ford Taurus and the F-Series pickup. Ford also owns a controlling (33%) stake in Mazda and has purchased BMW's Land Rover SUV operations. Ford's finance subsidiary, Ford Motor Credit, is the US's #1 auto finance company. Ford also owns Hertz, the #1 car rental firm in the world. The Ford family owns about 40% of the firm's voting stock. "
READ CAREEFULLY. It says that Ford owns a controlling 33% stake in Mazda. Notice that when it lists all of Ford's vehicles, they are listed under Aston Martin,Ford, Jaguar,Lincoln, Mercury and Volvo. Does it say Mazda? NO.
Just got my Santa Fe back from body shop today... they had it five days to redo rear bumper after a rear-ending. BUT... I ordered the parts July 6 and they didn't arrive until July 18... this in very urban Southern California... so some of the fears about parts were realized. Total tab close to $700 ... probably could have let it go but want to keep it looking new... otherwise, it's been a perfect vehicle and I'm past the 10,000 mile mark.
Your own post show that what the other person said was correct. Ford may not own 100% of Mazda's stock, however, as stated in the article you posted, "Ford also owns a controlling (33%) stake in Mazda." You don't need to own 100% of the stock in a public corporation to control the corporation. Ford with 33% of the outstanding stock in Mazda controls what goes on at Mazda just as it determines what happens in Dearborn.
Controlling is the key word. Mazda IS Ford; just as much as Volvo is Ford.
" Ford also owns a controlling (33%) stake in Mazda"
a CONTROLLING interest. That means ownership. Mazda is autonomous because Ford lets them be that way. Now will you stop nitpicking at me? Your own arguments disprove you ON THIS 1 POINT.
Yes, these threads SEEM to have died 2 days ago, immediately after your post. First of all, fkatu hasn't logged in or responded to my post to him, so it is NOT dead. You have created this tangent topic which questioned my specific numbers, when my points were:
#1 that Santa Fe is very reliable. #2 it is selling well.
That's all I was trying to say. You chose to focus on picking apart the statistics which I didn't research very well. The point still stands, and you even agree with my 1st point in a seperate post:
"Those problems may seem like a lot, but in comparison to the people who have bought Santa Fes and have NO problems with it, I think you can answer your own inquiry. Besides, it's a great looking car with a very competitive price."
Well, that's all I was trying to say, but I was TRYING to back it up with something, not just have it be an opinion... and you ripped into me. Now lets just drop it.
How can 18x8 & 17x9 both fit? I guess I don't know diddly about rims! Did you actually try to drive with them, or just slap them on & see if the patterns match?
Overall Review: The 4cyl is perfectly fine, I zip right onto the highway & have no problems merging in. From a full stop, it accelerates nicely. If you are cruising along at say 40, and need to slow down for whatever reason, then accelerate back up to speed.. that's where this SUV is lacking. I feel it's mostly with the way the computer shifts the car, and not necessarily the engine itself. Unless you come to a complete stop, when you start to accelerate again, you are doing so from 2nd gear. You really need to punch it to get it to downshift. If you use the shiftronic, and shift it manually, it performs quite well. I'm scheduled to go into the dealer Friday to have new firmware flashed into my Santa Fe that is supposed to make it shift better. Hyundai has been right on top of things as far as customer satisfaction & problem fixes.
there is a good article in this month's TRUCKIN' magazine on plus sizing your rims.
i did drive with both rims to check for rubbing, etc. both were fine..
the offset of the rim has a lot to do with what fits as well as tire sidewall height.
i could probably drive around with 13inch rims with a reverse 12inch dish... but i wouldn;t hehe.
bottom line is that it is possible to put 20 inch rims (or maybe even 23) depending on the tire sidewall... as long as you keep a similar offset and overall outer diameter.
check out this months truckin' mag for more info on plus sizing your rims and tires...
steve_HOST: not sure what your question was about the offset.. i dont know what the offset on the rims i tried were but they werent off from stock by much either way.
the 9 inch wide rims a real low tire on it... (45's)
i am going to be going to a rim shop this weekend and they are going to give me exact measurements on what's the biggest wheels that will fit without rubbing.
"#3) Hyundai was the biggest seller of the 2001 season... and Santa Fe had ALOT to do with that claim. For a vehicle that has sold so well.... for a freakin' HYUNDAI to be selling OVER LIST... and easily at that.. I am amazed."
You did not say that it was selling well. And I did not take this on a tangent. When you said that it was the best seller, I posted numbers to prove to you that it was simply not the case. You then go on to tell me that you were referring to year's total when I distinctly stated in my post to you that those numbers were for the month of June this year. And even if you totaled the numbers for the year instead of just the month, the Santa Fe still wasn't the best seller.
Now, as for the Ford/Mazda debate. Let me break it down to you: ownership means 100%. Like the article stated, Volvo is owned by Ford because Ford has 100% control over Volvo when it bought the rest of the company last year.
Ford had stakes in Volvo before, just like it does in Mazda now, but it did not own Volvo yet. Only until last year when it fully bought Volvo did Volvo become a division of Ford.
So while Ford has a "controlling" (i.e. Mazda depends on Ford financially) 33% in Mazda, it does not own Mazda. Just because the two companies share car platforms doesn't mean that Ford owns Mazda.
Likewise, Toyota's upcoming Matrix is shared with the Pontiac Vibe. The Chevy Prizm shares its platform with the Toyota Corolla. Are you going to argue with me that GM owns Toyota as well?
I am not nitpicking on you, by the way. I too admire the Santa Fe, but I only wanted to show the numbers in respect to what you had said about the car's popularity, in which you may have exagerrated a little.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer, Sunday 6/26 reported that Hyundai Santa Fe took top position in small SUV's for customer satisfaction in their survey. I have had mine 6 months and 8400 miles, including one 6200 mile trip. No problems to report. By the way, anyone know whether dealers are furnishing and installing that engine splash shield under warranty?
#1: 1st, you tell me "You did not say that it was selling well.", and you follow that up by pasting a quote from me, which I will re-paste an excerpt from:
"For a vehicle that has sold so well...."
Does that not show me saying it sold well? If I was exaggerating a little, so what? It was not the point of my post....AGAIN, so knock it off already. Next time I'll be a little less dramatic & say "it was a really big seller", happy??? If I told you I played baseball yesterday, & hit the ball a mile, would you really think I was trying to convince people that I had it a mile & try to prove it impossible to do so? I refuse to respond to your posts on this topic anymore, it is off-topic & out of context.
#2: a controlling interest is considered ownership diploid. Do you need an economics lesson as well? Ford owns more of Mazda than Mazda does. That is what is meant by "Controlling". AGAIN, this is off-topic. I will not post about this anymore either.
You said it owns a significant amount of Mazda. You also backed up this claim by saying that the Mazda Tribute is Essentially a Ford Escape, so it must be owned by Ford. I pointed out that it only owns 33%. I also gave the example of the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe to disprove to you that just because 2 cars share a platform doesn't mean that one brand is owned by the other. Now you say that the 33% in Mazda is a controlling percent, which somehow equates to complete ownership. Economics has to do with...the economy. If you want to understand something like the Ford/Mazda arrangement, you would need a lesson in business and finance.
And once again, a controlling stake means that Mazda depends on Ford financially. Just like how Nissan has signed on with Renault, because Nissan is in a lot of debt and needs the financial crutch. If you think that just because a brand depends on another brand financially equates to complete ownership, then your argument would also imply that Renault owns Nissan.
I don't think I'm the one who needs a course in business and finance (not economics).
As for the "For a vehicle that has sold so well..." you said that AFTER you had said that the Hyundai Santa Fe was the best seller, which was what I was reponding to.
"3) [Hyundai was the biggest seller of the 2001 season...] and Santa Fe had ALOT to do with that claim. [For a vehicle that has sold so well....] for a freakin' HYUNDAI to be selling OVER LIST... and easily at that.. I am amazed."
i am really not loving my interior... not because it is poorly crafted but because it is not EXACTLY what i wanted.
i would rather uninstall it and sell the covers and door panel inserts (all of which could be EASILY reinstalled), reinstall my factory covers and find a direct manufaturer to get exactly what i want.
yes, i am that anal about my car.
if anyone is interested, drop me a line.
kcorcoran@bofasecurities.com
webguru@optonline.net
(please mail to both as one is work and one is home.)
For some reason, you were defensive towards me after my first post to you anyway:
"your little chart that you linked me ranks them by their June 2001 sales. If you re-rank them by Year to date, you'll see the santa fe coming in MUCH higher than #31."
"your little chart"---hmm, do i smell sarcasm? Meanwhile, I have responded to everyone of your post with civiility. So if you're annoyed that I'm somehow nitpicking at your claims, then I'm sorry. But I wasn't the one who took it personally to begin with. And if you don't want to respond anymore to my posts, that is fine with me.
Quit acting like a couple of freak jobs. Are there not more valid points in life to debate than the silly topics you two are argueing? Lighten up and have fun :-] maybe you can put your heads togehter and promote whirled peas!!
Comments
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Didn't like the plastic door handles especially since I keep my car outside and the doors sometimes freeze. I can see my self pulling the handles off some cold winter day.
The price with AWD, upgrade stereo,cassette and CD, with crossbars, mats etc etc was 22,100. Sales guy said they are selling for list because they sell them right off the truck..I said I don't pay list and if they were selling so many how come I haave seen only 2 of them and that includes daily rides on the NJ turnpike, mall parking lits etc...
ON the 10-10 warranty. The guy said $1100. I said that was too much...anyone out there pay less for the 10-10 bumper to bumper.
Aside from the minor dislikes there were a lot of likes...
thanks for the help
Frank
As for the engine, I took mine for a 600 mile drive over the hills and valleys of western Pennsylvania this weekend and found the engine to be adequate...not great but not lame. It will give you some kick when you ask for it, but heading up steep grades it often downshifts to 2nd temporarily.
Tonight or tomorrow I'm going to take the time to post my observations on all of the aspects I can think of (gas mileage, seating space, etc.). All-in-all, after a two and a half month wait I'm very pleased.
#1) ANY 1st year vehicle will not be 100% perfect. Look at some of the other 1st year SUV's out right now... Santa Fe has THE FEWEST problems of any 1st year out there.
#2) Of those problems, several of those posts were discussions of 1 instance.. so 1 problem could have 15 posts because of people discussing the issue. That is unfair to list every post.
#3) Hyundai was the biggest seller of the 2001 season... and Santa Fe had ALOT to do with that claim. For a vehicle that has sold so well.... for a freakin' HYUNDAI to be selling OVER LIST... and easily at that.. I am amazed.
#4) I have had VERY few problems with my Santa Fe. I had the timing belt issue, they adjusted it, replaced the cover, and it's been running fine since then.. except for the engine stutter at 40MPH. There just so happens to be a fix for that too. It is so simple it will only take 20 minutes. I need to have the firmware in the computer flashed with the latest software revision. That is supposed to fix the problem, I've heard nobody state that it hasn't.
#5) For an SUV that's $16-22k, it is AMAZINGLY reliable.
Mine seems to drive best at 70MPH.. and (i know, i'm bad) I've had it up to 110MPH.. I have the 2WD V4. It really enjoys going fast, and is nice & smooth at high speeds. I would test one that's been properly prepped.
As for the door handles, they are more solid than a Honda's. I'm in NY myself, and don't anticipate any problems with them. They are a rigid PVC type of plastic that won't easily break. I have however bent metal handles in the past.
you state: "Sales guy said they are selling for list because they sell them right off the truck..I said I don't pay list and if they were selling so many how come I haave seen only 2 of them and that includes daily rides on the NJ turnpike, mall parking lits etc..."
Well, it was the best selling SUV in it's class for 2001 model year. I see quite a few on the road now. The dealer never seems to have them on the lot for long.
As for the 10/100 B2B warranty, I'd say the average cost seems to be $1000, with some people paying as little as $875, and others as much as $1200. This is TOTALLY NEGOTIABLE.
I read somewhere that Hyundai is even planning to open up a plant in the U.S. to help with demands.
Not only is the Santa Fe boosting sales for Hyundai, but so is its Elantra models (which I am seeing A LOT of on the road) and Elantra GT models (haven't seen one yet...neither at the dealership nor on the roads).
But Hyundai still has a long way to go
1) Hyundai continues to set new car sales records - Hyundai records, not overall records (mainly with elantra & santa fe).
2) Ford & GM both reported a DECREASE in sales so far this year. Except for the Ford Explorer, which is selling more vehicles than it did last year (tire probs & all!), and the TriScape.
3) Daimler/Chrysler had an increas in passenger car sales, but a decrease in suv sales. The Jeep Liberty however, is selling very well (according to them, I've yet to see one on the road).
4) I cannot find any sales statistics on the CR-V or the RAV4 so far this year. Personally, I don't see as many of them on the road as I used to... but there are still alot of them on the road... just very few NEW ones.
* Shiftronic - This feature is too fun and should not be used by anyone who is prone to bouts of giddiness. One practical note, though. I like being able to check on the automatic shifting by momentarily sticking into manual mode. In other words, I might be driving up a steep hill and think, "Hmmm, sounds like the engine is in 3rd. Is it?" I can just stick the car into Shiftronic mode for a moment and confirm that the transmission is doing what I think it's doing.
* Shiftronic (again) - Just another note....I've noticed while using the Shiftronic mode that I have a subliminal desire to pull the gear shift down when going from 1st to 2nd or 3rd to 4th, as one would normally do with a five-speed. Anybody else do this inadvertantly? It's not a big deal when in 1st, because when you pull down there's no downshifting that can be done, but downshifting from 3rd to 2nd when you really meant to shift up to 4th can be quite an eye-opener.
* Gawk factor - I pulled out the Hyundai lot for the first time and a guy test-driving a Jeep from the dealer down the street must have sprained his neck trying to read my name plate when I pulled up to the first stop light.
* Cruise control - My old Jeep had the cruise on the turn signal column, and with the SF's location I'm finding it easy to accidentally turn off the cruise by bumping the button. The location is very convenient, but it's something I need to adjust to.
* Leg and head room - I'm 6'6", so this was a priority for me. The head room is outstanding. I have about thee inches of clearance between my head and the ceiling and can easily wear a ball cap without making roof contact. The leg room is adequate, although I've found that my right knee rests up against the dash in a way that becomes uncomfortable on longer drives. That's nothing new for me, though.
* 7500 mile oil change? - According to the manual, the recommended maintenance calls for an oil change every 7500 miles. I know engine oil has progressed mightily over the past decade or so and the old "3 month/3,000 mile" rule is generally too strict nowadays, but 7,500 miles.....wow. Is anyone actually following this, or is 3,000-5,000 still the practice?
* Explanation of TCS in manual - This seemed jumbled and confusing. To paraphrase...."The TCS is off by default and if you want to turn it on then turn the vehicle off and then turn it on and then the TCS will be on until it's off." Or something like that.
* Engine power - Nothing to brag about, but adequate. My old Cherokee had to downshift to climb steep hills about as much as the SF does. If you want to drag race in your SUV, go for an Escape.
* Gas mileage - Gas mileage has been surprisingly good considering I'm still under the 1,200 mile break-in period. I'm currently averaging 22.1 mpg. Here's a tangent for anyone who owns a Palm device - I've been using a software program called TotalCar to track my mileage on my Palm Vx. It's a nice little program and only costs $10 to register, I think. So if anyone wants to track their auto information on their Palm device, check it out. You can also program reminders for maintenance, record repairs, etc.
* Stereo - I like the stereo quite a bit (cd/tape combo). I listen to sports stations on AM often and have found the reception to be good. One minor annoyance...removing a CD from the stereo resets the equalizer setting. So, if you had it on "jazz" and replaced the CD, you have to click it back over to jazz again from the default for the new CD.
* Stereo (again) - A puzzling observation....in the manual it says the equalizer rotates from classic to jazz to rock to "defeat". What in the heck is "defeat"? Did they meant to say "default", or have I missed out on some new, hip audiophile term?
* Cup Holders - They look deceptively small, but they can hold a super-sized Coke from McDonald's (for all of you who want a drink so big that puppies can drown in it). They also look shallow enough that a 20 oz bottle might tip over in them, but I put a bottle of Diet Pepsi in there and put it through some tight turns and brakes, and the bottle didn't budge an inch.
* Rain & gravel handling - I've been through two downpours so far when the sky has opened up and dumped copious amounts of water. The SF handled several inches of standing water on the highway without a problem at 45-50 mph. I also took it down some gravel trails and it has shown no signs of slippage. It handles beautifully.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolsu.asp
As of June this year, the Ford Escape is the #6 selling SUV.
Its closest competitor is the Honda CR-V at #11.
The Hyundai Santa Fe is #31.
As for the RAV4, it's #18.
I figure while I am not driving it I might as well have the sunroof put in.
As for the other most mentioned items on this board: no vibrations,17 mpg city/highway combined,no sulfer smell,all seems to be well and the v6 kicks but when I want it to.
Different parts of the world prefer different vehicle choices. In some areas of the world, a vehicle the size of a Santa Fe is considered to be very large. That population may prefer a smaller Ford Escape.
thanks
http://www.fastlx.com/sf
it is not the color i wanted (on the inserts) so i might be taking it back for them to redo it. i initially asked that the inserts and door panel inserts match the window pillars and headliner.
people seem to like the color as it is though because it doesnt look too bad with the exterior color (sandstone)
you be the judge
(also slapped some rims on it in photoshop... my wife likes these.)
i did some research and made some calls... our SF rims are
5 x 114.3 with a 40mm offset and a 67.1 mm centerbore (huge)
there are ALOT of vehicles with this bolt pattern (but smaller centerbores)
my brother has a set of 18 inch chromies in his yard that fit a lex... we are going to check it out this weekend.. maybe take a hole saw to the center. haha
oh yeah... also put some super white simulated HID h4 bulbs in the headlights.. what a difference... going to get the foglight bulbs next week.
later
keith
That's a bit of a stretch...I wouldn't exactly call 28th place MUCH higher than 31st, would you?
if you didnt buy one or arent planning on buying one... why are you even posting here (not saying this is the case... but you see what i am saying)
if the santa fe was dead last in sales i couldnt care less.
i have had NO problems with my new vehicle. it has over 7000 miles on it.
we got into a frontal offset collision with an 88 ford ranger at about 20 mph... no frame damage and even replacing the whole nose cost only 4000 bucks.
the guy at the body shop had a ford escape with almost the EXACT same hit and that car was totalled out by the insurance..
so does it matter if the guy next door and everyone in a 10 block radius bought a SF... not to me... just means i am not one of the herd...
'oh, there goes another one of those tin can escapes.'
keith.
And by the way diploid... there is a BIG difference between domestic & import truck sales. 83000 escapes sold, but only 23000 tributes. Same car, same company (although most people don't realize Ford owns Mazda), the US beats the "import". AND, that's with most reviews comparing the 2 vehicles favoring the sportier ride & handling of the Mazda. The top 10 sellers are all domestic trucks. There are only 9 imports in the top 25. Take a look at your own link.
Sure...try telling Hyundai that they shouldn't care how many Santa Fes are sold and see what their response is.
The point of my post was to clarify an inaccurate statement. When people post things like the Santa Fe being the best selling SUV in its class for 2001, well, expect to be called on it. Trouble is, when presented with actual facts many people get defensive and go ballistic.
(is irregardless even a word???) haha
1. we are not hyundai or rival manufacturers. all i care about is if hyundai sold 1 SF. mine. i am concerned with THAT 1 SF... not the 23,999 others.
2. just because someone sells a lot of vehicles... quantity does not equal quality.
brand recognition and market saturation is the key here.
i DID NOT post my last response to reply to any specific post about numbers.. only to say... who cares? maybe the manufacturers.. but i doubt the consumer really gives two turds.
now look at my leather interior and give me some opinions.
thanks.
http://www.fastlx.com/sf
later.
In the end, though, you're the one that will have to be happy with the seats. Looks great and good luck on your decision.
And as for coming in 28th instead of 31st...it is still way behind the Ford Escape.
As for the sales of the top 10 trucks...well this is America...what did you expect...eveyrone's going to go out and buy a small SUV when there's so much space out there?
Anyway, I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Your original post stated that the Hyundai Santa Fe was the best seller, which is hardly true at all. All I did was show you a link to the sales reports to disprove you.
It's not like I insulted you or something, sheesh
"That simply isn't true. Though I don't know what the sales data for the Santa Fe is in its native country, in today's market it's not always a case of 'home base' advantage."
I was just pointing out that it IS TRUE, there IS a homebase advantage. The top 10 sales are of domestic vehicles. As for Ford owning Mazda... they sure do, they own a majority share of the stock. The majority shareholder is considered the owner.
Keith: I SURE CARE. How would you like it if it DIDN'T sell well? You can sure bet you'd have a serious problem getting replacement parts in the future, I can guarantee you that. I got burnt on a Daewoo. It took 9 days to get an alternator installed. 9 DAYS FOR AN ALTERNATOR!!! They had to ship one from Korea. And to top it off, the dealer I bought it from went under, I had to drive 45 minutes to the next closest one, and THEY DID NOT GIVE ME A RENTAL. Sales matter my friend.
Until Ford completely takes 100% of Mazda (like it did Volvo), Mazda will still be an autonomous and independent company from Ford.
"That simply isn't true. Though I don't know what the sales data for the Santa Fe is in its native country, in today's market it's not always a case of 'home base' advantage."
Like the case with the sales link, I specified that it was for the month of June this year. And yet you still pointed it out in your post. Redundant.
And here, I did say "...it's not ALWAYS a case of 'home base' advantage"---and you went out and confirmed that it was the case in the U.S. And that is true, but like I said, it's NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.
THIS YEAR, domestic suv's are dominating the imports in YTD sales numbers. PERIOD.
and, for the THIRD TIME... this WAS NOT THE POINT OF MY ORIGINAL POST.
http://www.ford.com/servlet/ecmcs/ford/index.jsp
according to FORD, MAZDA is a FORD brand. Are they lying to us??????
"oh.. santa fe.. we dont have any rims for that."
dummies.
i put an 18 x 8 set of chrome MOMOs from a lexus sc3000 on my SF tonight and they fit like a glove... tires were way too low profile though... 45 series. haha.
also for grins we slapped on my brother's chrome 5 star 17x9 mustang cobra r rims....
those fit sweetly too.
i didnt have a camera with me though... sorry.
looks like a whole new world of options have opened up with regards to rims... especially being here in NYC... wink wink. very cool.
time to watch the classifieds.
later!
keith
http://carpoint.msn.com/jump/windowshopping/jncbswin_4020223.asp
hyundai santa fe was named top small SUV
sweet.
keith
tireguy "Tires, tires, tires" Jul 7, 2001 3:11pm
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
"Ford Motor started a manufacturing revolution with its mass production assembly lines in the early 1900s. Now Ford is firmly entrenched in the status quo as the world's largest pickup truck maker and the #2 maker of cars and trucks, behind General Motors. It makes vehicles under the Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Lincoln, Mercury, and Volvo brands. Two of its biggest successes are the Ford Taurus and the F-Series pickup. Ford also owns a controlling (33%) stake in Mazda and has purchased BMW's Land Rover SUV operations. Ford's finance subsidiary, Ford Motor Credit, is the US's #1 auto finance company. Ford also owns Hertz, the #1 car rental firm in the world. The Ford family owns about 40% of the firm's voting stock. "
READ CAREEFULLY. It says that Ford owns a controlling 33% stake in Mazda. Notice that when it lists all of Ford's vehicles, they are listed under Aston Martin,Ford, Jaguar,Lincoln, Mercury and Volvo. Does it say Mazda? NO.
http://www.thestandard.com/companies/dossier/0,1922,264660,00.html
You can read it all here.
And for the THIRD TIME, your original post stated that the Hyundai Santa Fe was the top seller. I pointed out that the Ford Escape was the top seller.
This topic about domestic cars was in my response to hung's post about Hyundai being the top seller in its native country.
WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING YOUR TOPIC ANY LONGER. WE STOPPED THAT SEVERAL POSTS AGO.
Controlling is the key word. Mazda IS Ford; just as much as Volvo is Ford.
" Ford also owns a controlling (33%) stake in Mazda"
a CONTROLLING interest. That means ownership. Mazda is autonomous because Ford lets them be that way. Now will you stop nitpicking at me? Your own arguments disprove you ON THIS 1 POINT.
#1 that Santa Fe is very reliable.
#2 it is selling well.
That's all I was trying to say. You chose to focus on picking apart the statistics which I didn't research very well. The point still stands, and you even agree with my 1st point in a seperate post:
"Those problems may seem like a lot, but in comparison to the people who have bought Santa Fes and have NO problems with it, I think you can answer your own inquiry. Besides, it's a great looking car with a very competitive price."
Well, that's all I was trying to say, but I was TRYING to back it up with something, not just have it be an opinion... and you ripped into me. Now lets just drop it.
Bill
Pros:
Looks, Price, Features, Quality, Gas Mileage (I'm averaging 20mpg), Quality of service (from dealer & Hyundai)
Cons:
40-10-40 deceleration/acceleration performance
Overall Review:
The 4cyl is perfectly fine, I zip right onto the highway & have no problems merging in. From a full stop, it accelerates nicely. If you are cruising along at say 40, and need to slow down for whatever reason, then accelerate back up to speed.. that's where this SUV is lacking. I feel it's mostly with the way the computer shifts the car, and not necessarily the engine itself. Unless you come to a complete stop, when you start to accelerate again, you are doing so from 2nd gear. You really need to punch it to get it to downshift. If you use the shiftronic, and shift it manually, it performs quite well. I'm scheduled to go into the dealer Friday to have new firmware flashed into my Santa Fe that is supposed to make it shift better. Hyundai has been right on top of things as far as customer satisfaction & problem fixes.
i did drive with both rims to check for rubbing, etc. both were fine..
the offset of the rim has a lot to do with what fits as well as tire sidewall height.
i could probably drive around with 13inch rims with a reverse 12inch dish... but i wouldn;t hehe.
bottom line is that it is possible to put 20 inch rims (or maybe even 23) depending on the tire sidewall... as long as you keep a similar offset and overall outer diameter.
check out this months truckin' mag for more info on plus sizing your rims and tires...
steve_HOST: not sure what your question was about the offset.. i dont know what the offset on the rims i tried were but they werent off from stock by much either way.
the 9 inch wide rims a real low tire on it... (45's)
i am going to be going to a rim shop this weekend and they are going to give me exact measurements on what's the biggest wheels that will fit without rubbing.
"#3) Hyundai was the biggest seller of the 2001 season... and Santa Fe had ALOT to do with that claim. For a vehicle that has sold so well.... for a freakin' HYUNDAI to be selling OVER LIST... and easily at that.. I am amazed."
You did not say that it was selling well.
And I did not take this on a tangent. When you said that it was the best seller, I posted numbers to prove to you that it was simply not the case. You then go on to tell me that you were referring to year's total when I distinctly stated in my post to you that those numbers were for the month of June this year. And even if you totaled the numbers for the year instead of just the month, the Santa Fe still wasn't the best seller.
Now, as for the Ford/Mazda debate. Let me break it down to you: ownership means 100%. Like the article stated, Volvo is owned by Ford because Ford has 100% control over Volvo when it bought the rest of the company last year.
Ford had stakes in Volvo before, just like it does in Mazda now, but it did not own Volvo yet. Only until last year when it fully bought Volvo did Volvo become a division of Ford.
So while Ford has a "controlling" (i.e. Mazda depends on Ford financially) 33% in Mazda, it does not own Mazda. Just because the two companies share car platforms doesn't mean that Ford owns Mazda.
Likewise, Toyota's upcoming Matrix is shared with the Pontiac Vibe. The Chevy Prizm shares its platform with the Toyota Corolla. Are you going to argue with me that GM owns Toyota as well?
1st, you tell me "You did not say that it was selling well.", and you follow that up by pasting a quote from me, which I will re-paste an excerpt from:
"For a vehicle that has sold so well...."
Does that not show me saying it sold well? If I was exaggerating a little, so what? It was not the point of my post....AGAIN, so knock it off already. Next time I'll be a little less dramatic & say "it was a really big seller", happy??? If I told you I played baseball yesterday, & hit the ball a mile, would you really think I was trying to convince people that I had it a mile & try to prove it impossible to do so? I refuse to respond to your posts on this topic anymore, it is off-topic & out of context.
#2:
a controlling interest is considered ownership diploid. Do you need an economics lesson as well? Ford owns more of Mazda than Mazda does. That is what is meant by "Controlling". AGAIN, this is off-topic. I will not post about this anymore either.
I pointed out that it only owns 33%. I also gave the example of the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe to disprove to you that just because 2 cars share a platform doesn't mean that one brand is owned by the other. Now you say that the 33% in Mazda is a controlling percent, which somehow equates to complete ownership. Economics has to do with...the economy. If you want to understand something like the Ford/Mazda arrangement, you would need a lesson in business and finance.
And once again, a controlling stake means that Mazda depends on Ford financially. Just like how Nissan has signed on with Renault, because Nissan is in a lot of debt and needs the financial crutch. If you think that just because a brand depends on another brand financially equates to complete ownership, then your argument would also imply that Renault owns Nissan.
I don't think I'm the one who needs a course in business and finance (not economics).
As for the "For a vehicle that has sold so well..." you said that AFTER you had said that the Hyundai Santa Fe was the best seller, which was what I was reponding to.
"3) [Hyundai was the biggest seller of the 2001 season...] and Santa Fe had ALOT to do with that claim. [For a vehicle that has sold so well....] for a freakin' HYUNDAI to be selling OVER LIST... and easily at that.. I am amazed."
i would rather uninstall it and sell the covers and door panel inserts (all of which could be EASILY reinstalled), reinstall my factory covers and find a direct manufaturer to get exactly what i want.
yes, i am that anal about my car.
if anyone is interested, drop me a line.
kcorcoran@bofasecurities.com
webguru@optonline.net
(please mail to both as one is work and one is home.)
if you havent seen the leather...
http://www.keithcorcoran.com/sf/cuastomleather01.jpg
i will uninstall seat covers and door panel inserts perfectly without damage and ship anywhere in the US priority insured for $800.
i paid $1600 plus tax for the leather and install... right now to me it was money wasted so maybe i can minimize my loss and make someone else happy..
not sure there will be any takers but it is worth a shot...
i am just not feeling the color at all.
later,
keith
"your little chart that you linked me ranks them by their June 2001 sales. If you re-rank them by Year to date, you'll see the santa fe coming in MUCH higher than #31."
"your little chart"---hmm, do i smell sarcasm? Meanwhile, I have responded to everyone of your post with civiility. So if you're annoyed that I'm somehow nitpicking at your claims, then I'm sorry. But I wasn't the one who took it personally to begin with. And if you don't want to respond anymore to my posts, that is fine with me.