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Comments
It shouldn't hurt to run a tank occasionally (the computer retards timing to prevent detonation) but there's no reason to.
Is the DVD- rear entertainment decent? Is aftermarket better? Is the Ultimate package worth the extra money? Any other options you guys think I should get. Looks all Luxury models in MI has as the heated and cooled seats included. Silver/Silver or Silver/Beige ?
Thanks ahead
MILEAGE: I get a solid 13.0, all city driving on my 03 Nav.
VIBRATION: Never had that problem. I do have an 80 MPH vibration if this one particular tire is up front. ON the back, never notice it. I try to keep it on the back for that reason, however the obliging dealer seems to like to rotate the tires whether I like it or not. So right now, it's on the front. Makes me wonder if yours isn't the same. Hard to say from here.
Vibration... For me it comes and goes (weird I know)... had the tires balanced -- problem went away for a week and then returned. It is a 70mph +++ problem so it isn't a total headache. I'm turning in the truck this December so I'm living with it. If I get another navi you betcha I'm taking her on a looooooooooong test drive.
vibration when braking - could be warped rotors
Here's a link I stumbled on and posted on the EXPY board:
http://www.fordaxz.com/pdf/2005.EXPEDITION.OG.pdf
The only thing missing are the power liftgate and running boards.... what's the Navi getting next year to keep us interested? I heard ANT mention a 6-speed tranny a while back.. anything else?
cornellpinoy - No, you can't.
Bring in all your patio furniture in, there's a "hurricane" coming.
Remember "Cyclone" which was the in-house project name for the Duratec35 engine (3.5L V6) ?
There's a new project "Hurricane".... From the same Triton modular engine family 4.6L and 5.4L, comes a 6.2L V8 !!!
That'll blow the competition away once it starts being phased into products.
Wow, that sounds so HUGE, when actually, it's only about 380 cubes, isn't it? Hard to believe our sedans used to come with 390 CID engines standard, up to 500 CID in the Eldorados just 30 years ago, and they didn't put out as much HP either.
#1 Range Rover
#2 Lexus LX470
#3 Navigator
#4 Infiniti QX56
The Escalade was excluded because it lacked the features needed for the really rough stuff they put these trucks through.
Overall they were very comlimentary of the NAvi's power, interior looks, and hushed ride even through rough terrain.
They said the Infiniti was squeaking all over the place during the tests.
But this one seems to be about right, IF the point was to find out which of the lux SUV's worked well a rock climber. I have yet to read it, to understand where exactly they were going with this state, but as stated, this seems to be about right.
All very capable platforms in their right, provided with price. The Toyota Land Cruiser and Range Rover are internationally known for their durable abilities. Having the Navi next to them says quite a bit.
I'm not surprised about the Inifiniti QX56. The engine is the jewel, but their interiors feel as if they were lifted from a GM vehicle. Although it's a good overall effort in their part.
#1 Space and interior versatility
#2 Smooth, quiet ride
#3 Refined, luxurious interior accommodations
#4 Conservative yet "sporty" exterior looks.
I do not tow a boat, nor do I climb rocks. I guess that makes me a good candidate for a "luxury" minivan, but I haven't found one yet that I actually "want" to drive. The new Sienna comes close... but nah.
For the most part my 03 Navi fits the bill on all 4 of my priorities quite nicely.... still though, my truck has shown a few quality/design "glitches" that can be quite annoying.
For example:
1. The power liftgate can have a mind of its own.
2. Some black "tape" has begun protruding from the interior panels around the shifter and stereo.
3. Flapping exterior moldings have not been permenantly fixed.
4. High speed steering jiggle continues to be a problem at times.
5. Air suspension sometimes does not go "down" once parked -- making for quite a jump down or climb up afterwards.
6. Drivers seat has become loose -- if it is all the way back in the track it makes a "click, clack" sound when I make a turn or accelerate (easy solution -- move the seat up about a half inch).
7. For having such a LARGE windshield washer fluid reservoir my truck starts complaining about "Low Washer Fluid" WAAAAY too often for my tastes.
8. Nasty brake dust accumulates on the chrome rims... YES, I wash the truck quite often but the rims get mucked up way too much IMO.
9. The A/C has just begun to have a nasty musty odor on start-up.
You might think that with all of these little issues that I must hate my Navi... BUT NOT TRUE!!
Here are a few reasons why I LOVE this truck....
1. That power folding third row!!!
2. Exterior looks SHARP! Not too aggressive, not too dull -- just right for me.
3. Every seat in the truck has great head and legroom.
4. Interior looks/feels like you're in a Lear jet.
5. Dealership treats me like a king -- even if they don't fix things right the first time (perhaps I'd rather be treated like dirt but have my stuff fixed.. not sure on that one).
6. There's nothing like being able to load in two car seats, my brother and sister-in-law, my wife, AND my parents to go on a trip!!!!!
7. A price that is hard to beat for all the goodies you get. Still, though, I'd rather pay more to get more refinement. (If the Lexus LX had more room, more acceleration "umph", and a power-fold third row it would be bye-bye Lincoln for me!!)
Will I get another Navi when my lease expires in December?? The jury is still out on that one. Perhaps I'll go back to cars and leave the luxo barges to my sweetie.. perhaps I'll go for a smaller, "tighter" rig, perhaps I'll get a Segway Personal Mobility Device (er, standing scooter) and make up for my excessive gasoline consumption these last two years.... I just don't know.
1) POWER LIFTGATE - Mine does the same, but only at Wal-Mart. Finally decided it's a snob, and hates to be parked there. Almost never anywhere else - almost always there. Very embarrasing.
2) No black tape.
3) No flapping under 100 MPH. Did notice a little last Saturday, if you know what I mean.
4) My steering jiggle has been isolated to one offending tire. Put it on the back, no jiggle.
5) Air suspension - Occasionally mine hangs up too, but only when I've been off road, like it still thinks I'm not parking level or something. Never in the city.
6) No problem with driver's seat.
7) Washer Fluid Reservoir gives warning at about half full too.
8) Brake dust - Ditto.
9) No A/C odor from mine. Dry climate.
I agree with all of your reasons to love the truck. Will I get another one in 06? Possibly. Frankly, nobody else has a truck like it I'd consider better to replace. Certainly not GM, The QX has too many quirks so far. Nobody else is even close yet. But I too, may go back to a Sedan then, especially if gas prices remain so aggressive.
YMMV.
IF Ford has its act together, the '05 Navigator has no excuses but to be the best -- by the '05 model run the '03 redesign is hitting its "sweet spot" in terms of refinement and build -- I HOPE!
We had an early 02, I mean EARLY, like in the first 500 made, the first one to hit the dealership, she bought because she loved the new design. After 3 years of great service, lease was up, she replaced it with a Premier. Very little difference, still Black, got a V-8 this time with AWD. Otherwise, equipment is the same.
But the difference between the 02 and the 04 is amazing! The 04 is tons quieter, has no air leaks and just seems 10 times as solid. Now, the 02 never rattled or squeaked either, this one just feels like so much more quality. We are both astonished at how much they have refined a great design.
IF they do that to the Navigator as well, it should be a terrific vehicle. And I still think it's the design leader by far. Only the QX56 comes close in design, but not in appearance, luxury or quality yet. YMMV
gteach says:
'The power liftgate can have a mind of its own.'
and nv follows with:
'POWER LIFTGATE - Mine does the same'
So, what *is* it thinking/doing?
General comments: I have an '04 Ultimate. Best darn vehicle I've ever had, ridden in or seen. The level of refinement is quite high. I've got no complaints, though I am taking it in for first sched maint next week and have a laundry list of questions and little things. Like:
- How come the lights don't flash when I lock/unlock with the FOB? All other cars I've had do this and it's a nice confirmation that the car is un/locked. (I know the puddle lamps come on, but that's little help in daylight.)
- I want them to program the FOB so it unlocks everything with one press, not 2. I know they can do that. And I would like the car to unlock all doors when I stop and park. Hope they can do that. Wish there was more control over this type of stuff with the message center.
- The Lincoln emblem on the steering wheel is about 5 or 10 degrees rotated from straight up/down when the wheel is centered. I know, they're gonna have fun with me on that, but I say - with a sticker of over $60K,I want the darn thing to be aligned (I love symmetry - probly why I like the Inst Panel of this vehicle so much.) ANd if that's all I have to complain about, they should be happy.
We have an '02 Chevy Avalanche that's tight as a drum but will be trading it for an '04 Yukon XL soon and I wonder if we'll notice a difference like this too.
Every time I try to demonstrate this to the service department, it works fine, which is what it does 99% of the time. They would wear it out trying to get it to malfunction - so I just deal with it when it happens. As I said, at Wal-Mart for some reason.
Next time take the Mountaineer!
It is rare... it works just fine MOST of the time. Nvbanker is right, this is one of those problems that can't be easily "duplicated" so it can't be fixed unless I invite a tech to keep the truck for a few weeks (NOT!).... for something that happens only "once in a while" its just not worth it to me to fix.
By the way.. the lights should blink when the horn sounds after activating the alarm.. and a misaligned emblem on the wheel would drive this "neat freak" TOTALLY BONKERS!!! I would've had that fixed before I signed for the truck!!
gteach- I agree on the misaligned emblem. I would have chosen another one, actually, if they couldn't fix that before I took delivery. That's right in my face, can't handle it, and the steering wheel is one of the things that attracted me to this truck in the first place. It's just beautiful
I just got back from the 04 Nav test drive and here are my impressions:
- The Ultimate trim level has the HID lights and most of the other options I am interested in.
- I was turned off by the power lift gate, the motor seems underpowered and the linkage too light duty. Based on some of the complaints on the message board, this seems to be a poorly designed system.
- The ride is much lower than the 99. I prefer the higher ride.
- The steering on the 04 is much tighter and precise. Big plus here!
- The braking on the 04 is better than the 99.
- The seats in the 99 are much nicer except for the air conditioning feature in the 04.
- Some of the plastics in the 04 seem junkier than in the 99. Especially the front and second row center consoles.
- The 04 is much better looking in the interior. Although the speedo & tach gauges are harder to read in the 04.
- The 04 is much more practical for carrying large objects since the seats fold down. Another huge plus for the 04!
- My 99 also seems to not have lost a step in the power dept. The engine still sounds & performs identical in both models. I use synthetic oil, maybe that helps.
In the end, I decided that if I could get the 04 at invoice, minus the rebates, and fair trade-in for my 99 that I would go for it.
I would also have preferred to build up a Luxury with the options rather than going with an Ultimate so that I could avoid the power lift gate, but that does not seem to be how they do it and it is too late to order for this year.
Anyway, we were about $4000 apart and I decided that I was not loving it enough to haggle any further. We'll see how the gas prices go this summer and maybe they'll give me a call. I don't see the Navigators being a big seller in the next few months.
Oh well, maybe in 05...
In carsdirect, type in your zip, plug in the options you want and you'll get an instant quote. You can use this number to negotiate and if the dealer won't budge, you can purchase it through the service. I've personally never actually used it but it SEEMS like great way to buy a car without the hassle. I have successfully used their quotes in the past as a bargaining chip.
It seems like NOW is the best time to get the best price on a Navi. Your dealer has 53 (!!!) on the lot and they don't want to play? Something's wrong with that store.
A plus for the '05 is that it seems to be getting a few improvements here and there to make it a little bit juicier. Still though, I can't see prices getting ANY better than right now.
Also, with the liftgate... please don't let a few bad notches on this board scare you away from it. It really is a neat feature and I am CERTAIN that most of them perform flawlessly, otherwise we'd see a LOT more written on this issue. My Navi's liftgate just gets a little temperamental at times (perhaps she gets tee'd off with me??)
Good Luck!!
tidester, host
I guess I should further qualify my intentions for what I was looking for when I went to check out the 04 Navigator. I wanted to see just how low the dealer would go and just how much of an improvement the 04 is over the 5 year old 99.
Originally, I had intended to get another 4 years out of my 99 for when my son starts driving. To date, my 99 has been trouble free. After the test drive, I didn't feel that the 04 was a big enough leap forward to take on the expense. The dealer was not ready to "give it away" considering the current economic climate, otherwise I would have taken the opportunity to upgrade.
I'll check back with them over the summer to see if they are more motivated. Until then, I am happy with my 99 and no payments.
Thanks!
Try programming your seat a little further up in the track and see if the easy entry/exit features works then.
Have you checked in the message center to see if the feature is still showing "on"?
I pushed firmly on the brakes but I began to feel like I did not have enough room to stop safely. I guess the advance trac or antilock brakes kicked in and the brakes started to thump back and forth... the steering wheel also shimmied. The truck kept on a straight line and I felt in control.
I was able to bring the rig to a safe, complete stop just a few feet past the white line. I think that had my truck not been equipped with these advanced safety features I probably would have spun out of control and crashed. Now, was it the anti lock brakes that kicked in or the advance trac??
In any case, nice going navi... and whew!
IF at this time you would have jerked your steering wheel, then the forward momentum would have probably made the vehicle do a wobble skid instead, and to counter-act that, let go of the brake and the vehicle will come into control again.
Or if you practice threshold braking (for vehicles without ABS) you can bring the brakes to a point where they wouldn't have locked up, but enough to pump them and continue on your braking skid.
The shimmering you felt on the steering wheel is the front wheels slipping, then gripping, then slipping, then gripping, numerous times a second. (ABS). If Stability Control is kicking in (I myself feel it on the driver's seat-mentally) where one or more wheels will brake itself to keep you pointed to where your steering wheel is aimed.
And relating to SUV's, when in higher speed's (Such as highway) where full braking pressure must be applied, NEVER turn the wheel. Just slam the brakes, let ABS do the work and just brace to hit the object because if you jerk the wheel, your gonna flip. It's better to just hit the item and at least have the frontal structure absorb the impact (or kill whatever animal jumps in the way) then risking a flip where one hit on the roofing structure member's might leave you paralyzed.
But in your experience, that sort of braking issue is quite common and something we usually will utilize a few times a month when conditions are bad. I myself do that for fun whenever roads are slippery just to test out the system for giggles.
But on topic - I have been driving Lincolns since 90. All of them have had ABS, some of them Advance Trac more recently. The ABS has saved me numerous times, where I was able to stop the car way way before I should have been able to. I could tell you a story about almost eating the trunk of a cab once, but you know what I mean. Just know how totally surprised I was when I didn't! Time and motion equations usually calculated mentally did not apply!!
Still, it reminds me of how well equipped these trucks are to protect my family. ABS, antilock brakes, airbags EVERYWHERE.... I feel pretty safe putting my wife and two babies in my Navi.
Also, I usually take the red during these circumstances (little room to stop/stale green turning to red/etc.)... but "something" told me to stop on this particular day. Hmmmmmmm... Begin Twilight Zone music.
Just last weekend on the highway as I return from my lovely road trip in Orlando where people are civlized and not a 3rd world country unlike Miami, using my mother's POS MB CL500 someone did something quite stupid.
They slammed their brakes hard when the rain started getting stronger... This in front of a 18 wheeler truck, which had to swerve onto another lane, which freaked 2 people out pushed them into my lane, I had to squeeze between the 18 wheeler and those cars, slam the gas cut in front of another, dash to emergency lane and cut through the grass media...Having all the bells and whistle's of stability control system beep at me telling me it's working. Then jump back into an empty lane.
Then their "OnStar" service (which I nickname GHOST) called saying their computer detected a possible impact with the vehicle (But without airbag detonation), and if everything was ok.... I tell her "Oh no, just a regular day in Miami driving, testing out the safety gadgets."
Which is why I tell people (who choose cars that have ABS as optional), if your going to pick options, make that a priority. Usually it's a $350-500 option, and that's your insurance deductible right there. One panic stop you avoid with ABS, is enough to pay for it in the long run.
These trucks may be interesting in 10 years, when the suspension is shot or the brakes are old. I'll bet they're a nightmare to keep comfortable.