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Lincoln Navigator



  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    Check out this site for details on the lemon laws in your state along with general tips.

    tidester, host
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with your navigator. I'm curious though, what's the build date on your gator --was it one of the first after the redesign or no? Also, what was wrong with the radio and the liftgate that they required 3(!!!) repairs/replacements?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Wow! What kind of service is the dealer giving you? If not first class, I'd be calling the Lincoln Hotline tonight!
  • I have 31K on it and the noise coming from the wheel wells is starting to get louder. I am taking it back to the dealer on Friday. Are the Continentals that bad? Will try to get some type of credit and install Michelins. Anyone with the same year and problem?
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    Hi Blackrhino1. I had a 2000 gator with Continental tires... at 16K miles the truck started shaking wildly and the steering wheel felt like a portable massage unit... the culprit --yep, bad Continental tires. It turns out they were recalled just a few weeks after this happened to me. Initially, my dealer tried to sell me four new tires at a discount, but after calmly explaining to them that no logical and reasonable person would expect tires to go bad so soon (especially with a spotless dealer-performed maintenance record) they agreed to replace them with 4 Michelin SUV Cross Terrains. The truck drove wonderfully after that! Then, sensible man that I am(not), I dumped the truck for an '03 gator!

    BUT.. You've got more miles than I did (31K vs. 16K) and I assume your tires are NOT under recall otherwise they would have been changed by your dealer long ago -- so you've got less leverage.

    IF the tires are the proven reason for your issue, and IF you've had your truck regularly serviced through your dealer THEN you have a good case to get new wheels at a very good price. Think about it, every time you take your truck in for service, they perform their "quality" inspection, and if your tires were wearing poorly (or going bad for that matter) they SHOULD have mentioned it to you long ago. If the tires have suddenly gone bad then it suggests to me there's a factory defect with them and your tire warranty should cover them. If you have not had your dealer service your truck regularly however, then you are probably on your own.

    At the very least, check in your Lincoln Warranty papers, there's an often-overlooked booklet in there that has the specifics about your tire warranty. If I remember correctly, in my '00 gator it was a little blue and white booklet. Check it out to see what other protection you may have.

    Good Luck!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I have Michelin All Terrains on my 03 Gator, and they ride great, and are quiet. But they're lousy off road. FWIW
  • Thanks GTEACH26: I have an appointment on Friday to get the rumbling noise checked out. A friend was telling me that the wheel bearings on the truck sounded bad. Whatever it is Lincoln will want to take care of it. I have had regular service at the dealership so any errors / documentation will be easily found.
  • flipwflipw Posts: 2
    Geatch26: I am now getting a fourth radio - th last one's Cd/Nav player will not work properly, and the liftgate motors work just very weak. The build date is 04/02 so it is one of the first. I am looking into the lemon law in VA and have called Lincoln to complain. Any experience in buybacks?

    NVBanker: the service has not been great, almost disappointing, although I did get a follow up call today with out having to call them.

    I have also heard about the brake dust problem - any news on that front? Mine cakes up terribly and is hard to remove.

    Any experience in buybacks anyone?
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    Brake dust: Rumor has it that Lincoln is coming up with a "Fix" later this year. For now, my dealer has offered to install and provide a warranty for the "KleenWheels" brake dust covers --the catch is the customer has to pay for the covers. They'll install them free when you go in for service. I'm waiting for the fix from Ford to see what happens.

    Concerning Lemon Law/Buybacks: thankfully I've never had to look into this too carefully. From what I gather it's a "three strikes your out" policy. I'm not sure if it would apply to tech accessories (radio, liftgate, etc.) or if it must be a driveabilty issue that has not been fixed after 3 tries. I would HOPE Lincoln goes to bat for you and accommodates you. Just try to stay calm and composed throughout your "discussions" with them -- and forget about phone calls; for issues this serious I'd be sending certified letters to everyone concerned.

    Over on the Lexus GX board I've read that some customers are getting their SUV bought back from Lexus because they messed up on the weight of the vehicle (listed it as 6001 pounds vs. 6000) and it has had bad tax implications for some folks. Also, I've read in other Lexus boards that some people are clamoring for buybacks due to some vibration issues that have not been resolved successfully.

    Either way, I'm certain having ANY vehicle buyback accomplished is not an easy task. Let me know what happens... and good luck!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    My computer tech had an 00 Excursion that Ford bought back. They couldn't have been nicer, and volunteered to buy the car back. But he had a chronic braking problem that could be a safety concern. I think Ford wanted that truck off the road badly. Your problems aren't going to incent them to buy the truck, sadly. Unless you get road rage from no Radio.

    If a buyback is warranted, they will offer you a new truck off the lot, no extra charge, your current lease or loan if it's Ford Credit stays in place as is. If you don't like what's on the lot, they'll build your new truck for you. If you want to upgrade, they'll adjust your lease or loan for the extra equipment you want on your next one. I don't know what they do if you paid cash or have outside financing.

    They take the old truck to the morgue for an autopsy, and have the engineers dismantle it to see why it couldn't be fixed.

    I agree with gteach though, stay calm, but persistent, and escalate each time until you get to Bill Ford. It's a hassle, and you shouldn't have to, but it seems you do sometimes to get satisfaction. Unfortunately, how the manufacturer handles problems often is more influential about future purchases than how the car performs. My tech is a huge Ford fan now because they handled him so well, and he loves his new Excursion!
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Yes, the Six Sigma team disects the vehicles and look for the gremlin, they are also responsible for pre-viewing vehicles and going over them with a fine tooth comb, before they are introduced. Which is what the current F-150 is currently under going.
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    Just curious.. would this pre-viewing team have the power to stop/delay production if they find a problem? Also, what's the process like? Do they each get a "specimen" and drive it around for weeks while pressing every button in the vehicle, etc?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    It's a bit more complicated than that, but even on current vehicles already produced, if they find an item or component that can be further improved, they will rectify and remedy the situation if possible. Also, they can suggest improvement on certain components/items that might be cost effective in the long run. BUT do not confuse them as bean counters in any sense... Just on some items, if they know there's a better way, or better material, that can save money, they will rectify the situation.

    If you look at some of the Ford vehicles for '04, you will notice that various things might have changed, and while they might look minor, in the end it's for the better. Even the Taurus received real wood trim in some higher trim levels.

    Instead of just pressing buttons to see IF they work, they concentrate on HOW the button feels, how it rocks as you touch it. How the figure can grab and identify it in a easier manner. If a driver can execute it's action, without moving his eyes off the road. And that process continues into, how the assembly of the button works, can their be a better placement for it, how the mechanics work, how to upgrade the item itself for reliability issues, what pieces can be improved within it, following down to the it connects to the computer/electrical system, etc.

    It's a very long and tedious process. They mainly work with items that show a history of break down failures, or issues that might arise soon after a release. While ONE vehicle that's produced (and they test) might not exhibit flaws, one in which a customer has acquired and had issues with, are the one's the concentrate with, mainly because we all have different ways of treating vehicles. Therefore they are made to drop everything, to fix whatever known problem there might be on a vehicle.
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    Very interesting info.. thanks!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I continue to have a few little things to fix on my 03. Current list with temporary fixes is:

    1) Power liftgage intermittantly won't close without forcing it down by holding the button in. Does anybody know if a TSB has been issued on this problem yet?

    2) Rear A/C works property when controlled from the front, but puts out heat when controlled from the rear. Obviously, I just use front controls for now.

    3) Liftgate window has lost a stop grommett on lower right - probably car wash popped it out cleaning.

    These are what I consider second tier issues because I have a temporary solution until I need my next service. Or until something serious happens that makes me go in. I dearly love the truck - but you can tell it's a new design. It's not built like my old 99 was.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Actually I was much more scared for the first ever Expy/Navi's release, than these current generation. There were numerous supplier issues in the first generation.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    By the way, does anyone have any issues with the seats in their 2003 Navi ? As in, have they malfunctioned in any particular way, and if work was done to them, what type ?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    That's interesting, ANT. My 99 was bulletproof, and there are so many around me that seem to be holding up very well, I would have never guessed. On my little cul-de-sac of 8 homes alone, we have my Navigator, and 2 Expeditions, a 97 & a 99, along with 2 Rangers, 2 Explorers, a Bronco, a Sport Trac, an F-250 & a Mountaineer. Talk about Ford Country? And that's just the trucks! Of course, there are some households who don't get it yet.....
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Any of them happen to be 2003 Expeditions? There might be a seat issue, which is why I'm asking.
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    thankfully, no seat issues. Once in a while the easy-out feature doesn't kick in but I think it has to do with me turning off the truck's engine at the wrong time.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Oops, sorry, ANT, I got ranting and raving, and forgot the question. It's an age thing. NO SEAT PROBLEMS, except for exactly what gteach said. But I agree with him, sometimes you can screw up the sequence by opening the door, inserting the key or reversing it in the wrong order, or manually moving the seat can affect the easy-exit feature. And sadly, I'm the only guy on the block with an 03 so far. So much for trend-setting.
  • Took the 02 Navigator into the dealer last Friday. The manager and technician both heard the constant rumbling sounds. The manager states it is the left front tire "cupping" He said he will make some phone calls and see if something can be worked out. I will insist on replacing all four with the Michelins. I have no problem paying some, but the dealership has performed the checks on this suv from the start and the tires should last longer then 32K. The manager told me that driving the same route to work will have a negative effect on my tires. I looked at him like he was crazy. Hope someone at Lincoln will see the light and help me out.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Driving the same route my [non-permissible content removed].....some of the bull---- these guys try to feed us amazes me. Ask the guy who said that if he wants a shovel.

    A cupped tire does rumble, but the only thing I know that causes a tire to cupp is a bad suspension or improper alignment. Just changing the tires will help, but the problem may recurr, even if you vary your route to work... Sheesh, unless you repair what's wrong with the front end.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    It's funny how that techinician stated that advice. Maybe it the vehicle were some puny little economy car then it could be convincing for some. But sounds like he's saying that a full out rugged Body on Frame SUV can't handle ordinary everyday roads. That technician should ride with me when I'm testing out the Trucks and SUV, so he sees how much they must endure on rugged terrain, the normally paved streets. It's amazes me some of the B.S. that they dish out at the dealership.

    Ironically, Lincoln placed almost at the top of the list of dealership complaint satisfaction. As in, people were highly pleased with the repairs, when visiting the repair facility.
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    Blackrhino1: I almost threw up when I heard the "it happens when you ride the same route to work daily" excuse. I cannot believe someone would say this to a customer. "The tires suck and you have to buy new ones" -- THAT I can deal with but not this B.S.

    Also, nvbanker says the tire "cupped" for a reason (suspension,alignment,etc).. I would want to find out from the service rep what exactly caused this cup to happen (besides that the tire sucks), then have it fixed or else it will happen again. Also, wouldn't a "cup" develop gradually over time or would it just suddenly appear? If it happened over time then the "quality inspection" done when you went in for regular service should have flagged it -- if they did not tell you something was wrong then shame on them and they should pony up a new set of wheels for FREE -- you can offer to pay the alignment/balancing etc. Is that unreasonable?PLUS I've got to believe those tires have a better warranty than just 32K with proper care no?
  • jrc346jrc346 Posts: 337
    Just recently I had to change the passenger side front tire on my 1999 EB Expedition 4X4 with Air suspension due to bad cupping. The tires on the truck are Goodyear Wranglers with about 40,000 miles on them. The past three months I have been getting more and more noise from the front passenger side wheel well. So I checked it out and found two areas badly cupped. I went to a local tire store and told them I needed a new tire and explained why. The guy told me that if not rotated every 5,000 miles, the air suspension on the Expedition/Navigator will do that to the passenger front tire. He also said that he has seen this problem many times before. I don't know if this is true or not, but at least it seems logical. The thing I don't unuderstand is, why only the passenger side front, and what is it in the suspension that will do this to the tire(s)? Anyway, just my experience. This may or may not be the cause of your tire noise.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    In 65,000, I never had that problem on my 99 Navigator, but that doesn't mean it's not true on others. But cupping does happen gradually, but manifests itself suddenly when you start noticing the grinding howl from somewhere. Then, it's too late. It's hard to pick up visually until then.
  • kourykoury Posts: 225
    My '03 Gator's radio doesn't pick up any AM stations, and the FM sensitivity is horrible - lots of static on stations that should come in loud and clear. Could it be he aftermarket DVD system has cut into the circuitry, or does anyone else have the same issues with their radio? I mention the DVD connection because the dealer installed a kill switch button under the dash, and the FM sensitivity fluctuates depending on whether or not the button is engaged.

    Here's another question - why, on a $60K car, does Ford use CD technology that only allows you to play commercially pressed CD's, and not CD's burned on a home computer?
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    koury.. I can't help you with the radio reception.. BUT concerning the CD issue: I am able to burn Cd's on my home computer and they play fine on my '03 Navigator. I use Memorex CD-R recordable discs. I've burned 5 or 6 discs and they play with no problems. I doubt the gator can read CD-RW. I've noticed MOST cd players (except my computer's) can read those. Are you using CD-R to burn your music?
  • kourykoury Posts: 225
    gteach26 - I've tried both CD-RW and CD-R's to no avail. Maybe I'll try Memorex and see what happens. Thanks for the tip.
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