Lincoln Navigator

nvbanker

Went "window shopping" today as the weather was so nice. Found a really beautiful 05 Light Tundra Navigator Ultimate 4x4 with Camel interior, with split bench 2nd row, and stationary running boards. A perfect truck for my tastes. Stickered at $63. Pulled out the sticker on my 03 which is identical, except for the 4x2, and the THX/Navigation which was not available then. $51. Wow. Pretty stiff inflation even counting in the additional equipment. But love the new wheel design.

kennynmd

I'm new here so if my question has been answered, sorry. Anmyways, how is the access to the 3rd row seats on the Nav? What do you you have to do to get back there? I currently have a Sequoia andits not too bad but removing the 3rsd row seats are kind of a hassle.

Also, does anyone know when will the Nav be completely redesigned?

ANT14

Pretty easy, click, click, forward, done. You can take a look at the owner's manual, and not only see how it's done, but check out a few other toys. http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/ownerlit/default_retail.as- p?year=2005&vehCode=nav
 

 

This year, aside from some styling tweaks, the adoption of a 6 Speed Automatic, and updated 5.4L 3V engine.

 

Next redesign late calender year 2007, where it'll migrate into a platform to be shared with the next F-150. It'll also be available in extended length as well (Navigator XL).

kennynmd

thanks ant...just contemplating about trading my Sequoia for a Nav.

nvbanker

Bad news..... Was strolling around the dealership delivering a little Christmas present to my dealer this weekend, and happened upon an 05 Ultimate in Light Tundra with Camel interior, optioned exactly like I want it. Sticker on it is $62,000! Geesh! My 03 was only $53,000! Of course, with my A plan deal, it's lots less, but man, you guys are killing me! I'm gonna have to wait until my lease is up or I get an early out letter from Ford Credit! Great color combo though.... I would have done it otherwise....

heyjewel

Geez, talk about inflation! No, not Fords' - yours. 3 posts ago your '03 cost $51K, now it's $53K !

 

I think you might want to check again because there is no way and '03 Ultimate had a sticker price of $51-53,ooo.

heyjewel

kenny;

 

Access to the 3rd seat is as good as I've seen. ANd the power fold deal is quite well done. It's only on the Ultimate though (MAYBE otional on Luxury? I dunno) so be sure yours has it. It is also reasonably comfortable, though I recently sat back there for a 2+ hour drive and the seat belt anchor was diggin into me. They could have mounted those a couple inches more up or down and been better. IOW, it's a great place for kids to sit, but adults may not want to be there too long IMHO.

ANT14

I'm still trying to come up with some conclusion with the A/C LS/Avi/Navi, but my sampling rate is so low, I can't come up with a concrete case yet.

gteach26

ZERO problems. I drove in, they did a quick 5 minute inspection, I signed two forms and left. No pressure, no hassles, just a "thanks for your business and come back again."

 

What a class act!

 

I almost feel guilty for not taking another SUV from them but I really wanted to switch back to a car and none of Lincoln/Mercury's current offerings excite me (nope, the Montego doesn't do it to me at ALL). I hope Lincoln continues to make strides in the quality and styling department over the next several years. Just imagine a more modern and sporty-looking towncar with a first-rate, high-tech and ultra-cushy interior.... C'mon Lincoln... make it happen and like Arnold says... I'll be BACK.

nvbanker

I still have my sticker, heyjewel - want me to fax it to you? It's a 4x2, does that help you understand?

heyjewel

nv;

 

You posted twice about this. Once your sticker was 51. Next it was 53. Maybe you should fax it to yourself.

 

You say the new one is "Identical" to yours except for this ones 4x4 and has Nav. Well that's $6500 worth of increase so add that to 52 (ave of your numbers) and we're at 58500. All I have to do is check Edmunds to see that's just 9 hundred less than the correct sticker for an Ultimate 4x4 w/Nav (59,400) Which makes me think your 53 number is the correct one. So there has to be another 3600 worth of options on the new one. Simple addition.

 

I'm just about facts here, man. You made it sound like Ford had increased the price by 20% in 2 years. Not even close. Apples to apples, nv.

nvbanker

$53 was correct, George, the $51 was the result of medication, or self-medication or something else, sunspots, CNN, I don't know. It was a guess. I don't draw it that tight. My apologies..... Thanks for the correction.

 

I love the color

heyjewel

OK. Maybe switch from CNN to FOX :>)

nvbanker

Hmmmm, I'm happier already

texasmom

Its camel interior already has a slight smudge on the shotgun seat. Darn kids. Does anyone know what Lincoln recommends to clean their leather seats? I've had heated seats before, but never cooled and heated seats and never perforated seats. I'm afraid to put just any leather cleaner on there. Anybody know?

 

Also, got my first wash the other day and the lovely young men who cleaned the interior got dirty footprints on the part of the carpet that isn't covered by floor mats. Is it being outrageously picky to complain to the carwash manager about that? I mean, it costs 40 or 50 bucks to have it shampooed. I didn't even think it was my car when I went to get in it because of the dark footprint smudges. As I write this I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea of complaining...I mean, I took it there to get it cleaned, not to get it dirty.

 

And speaking of dirty carpet, does anybody have any recommendations for exact color matching weathertech-type floor mats? My last vehicle was a chrysler and they had factory color-matched weathertech-ish mats that held drink spills and little pieces of debris that fall off shoes. All I've seen on the internet for '05 Navigators is not exact color matching--just generic beige, gray and black. It really looks a lot better when the color matches the carpet perfectly.

 

Is there some sort of factory Lincoln accessories website? I think I need those rubber things that go on the edge of the doors to prevent chips, too. Somehow a tiny bit of paint got chipped off the driver's door ALREADY. It doesn't show much but if I get more then it's going to become noticeable. I already ordered some factory matched paint from the dealer where I bought it.

 

Thanks very much for any help you can give.

nvbanker

Ford makes these products, and your dealer's parts dept. should carry the leather & vinyl cleaner, carpet & upholstery spot cleaner, etc.

nvbanker

My brakes started grinding on my Navigator at 24,000 miles, which was a shock to me, since my 99 Nav went 65,000 miles on the original brakes linings. So, took it in, and to my amazement, the linings were gone, and so were the rotors! Since these were wear items, I expected to have to pay for the job, but was a little peeved at having to do so at this point, yet I know of a lot of cars that this is considered "normal". Not Lincolns, but some cars it is. When I picked up the car, Ford stepped up and covered it 100%, no questions asked. Now, that's commitment, and that's what I'm used to, and that's what has kept me driving Lincolns for the past 15 years. FWIW. Way to go Lincoln. YMMV, I understand. But I'm very satisfied, still. I just hope THIS set of linings doesn't blacken the wheels so badly, and lasts longer.

motoman44

I just bought a 2003 Ultimate 4wd Navigator. Mineral Grey with Black leather and 24K miles. I got it for $32,000. It has everything but Nav and DVD. I love the car but I wasn't aware of the mid year changes. If you get an early 03 you don't get tweeters in the door pillars, and the OD off button is on the side of the shifter not the back. Later models get all that and even later models get the radio with the SAT button that says SOUNDMARK which can have Siruis added directly. Why didn't they do that from the beginning??? Everyone I called says that I can't add an 04 Nav radio or a newer 04 6 disc. SUCKS.

nvbanker

So, let's narrow it down -

 

A: Does yours have the OD switch on the back of the shifter, or on the thumb side?

 

B: Does it have switches for the power third row seats behind the second row seats, accessible from the rear door, driver's side, or not?

 

C: I assume, it has no tweeters in the A pillars, neither does mine.This will tell me if you have an A, B, or C EC 03 Navigator.

 

If you have an A, these were a bit of a mess, but perhaps, yours has had all the issues repaired prior to now, and it will be good for you now. If it was a B, as was mine, should be pretty good, and if it was a C, you should like it just fine. Those three engineering changes pretty much mark each series change in 03.

 

The first few spit out of the line were a bit trouble prone, as most brand new models tend to be. So, which one do you own?

heyjewel

Well got back yesterday from a ski trip to Lake Tahoe in our 1 yr old Merlot Ultimate. 2 adults, 2 teenagers and 2 little ones in car seats. Even though we were in the Nav for appx 7 hours each way, everyone was quite comfortable. The 2 teens were in the double seat in the 3rd row and never complained. The single side was folded down as was the 2nd row seat in front of it to accomodate a snowboard. Next time, I'll have a roof carrier as the inside was pretty crowded with gear for 6 (only 1 sno board and boots though as the rest of us rented.)

The Nav performed flawlessly. What a great ride it is. Kids watching DVDs, wife and I listening to CD at same time. And navigation took us right to the front door of the little cabin we had rented. GOtta love it.

Used 4Lo and AWD and they worked as designed. Combo of AWD with AdvanceTrak proved to be fantastic in the ice/snow which came in heavy on our last day there and the drive back. In fact, the drive back was pretty harrowing. Chains required on hwy 80, well, for those other guys. 4WD w/mud and snows (like us) don't need no stinkin chains:>) I drove thru the snow til we were down below about 4,000 feet then my wife took over. She had to drive the last 3 hours in the dark and rain because one of the lenses in my eyeglasses fell out and is now in the snow under the Red Fox lift at Diamond Peak! My spare pair were sunglasses - not so good at night. The weather really turned bad - driving rain, gusts to 40mph we heard. She said her hands and arms are tired from gripping the steering wheel. But the Nav just felt so secure.

This is the first time we've had the car in winter conditions and I must say that the HVAC system in my Navigator worked great. With temps from low 20s to high 40s we were all very comfortable inside. I did need to switch to defrost mode occasionally but auto mode handled most situations.

Still very happy with my decision to get this vehicle.

motoman44

I do have the switches for the power seat behind the second row of seats. No tweeters. Does that tell you which one I have. Someone also told me that they changed the wiring harness mid year on the stereo from black to grey. On the grey ones you can add the 04 radio. On the black ones you are out of luck. I would assume that this change came with the tweeters.

nvbanker

That tells me you have an A or a B, moto, but you neglected to identify the position of your OD button on the shift selector - South, or West? That will tell me if you're an A or a B, respectively. You are not a C, or you'd have the Tweeters, and no second set of seat buttons.

 

Did I say contrats, by the way? You've joined a great family, personally, I just can't find a good competitor for the Navigator. The Dr. across the street from me was whining about his Armada just today. Says it's been one thing after another wrong with it, and it doesn't have half the great features of the Gator.... Welcome to the family.

 

George - great to hear about your trip! Also good to hear your HVAC worked correctly . I put mine in the shop while I was down in Florida for Christmas, and they found a TSB on my HVAC to correct the "freezing up on long trips" issue I had last summer, so we'll see in July, if I have that anymore. There was some kit they put on the Evaporator that supposedly corrects it. I think it's a hellova unit, myself. Interesting, you don't have the problem the LS & Aviator has.

murphdog

Has anyone driven an 04 (w/4 speed) vs 05 (w/ 6 speed)? Any major differences?

 

I was headed for an 04. With all the cash coming back from LM along with all the inventory, I thought I could catch a great deal. As I started digging in last night I saw that the 05 has the 6 speed. My wife and I drove the 04 yesterday, and were impressed (vs our 02 Sequioa).

 

I wanted peoples impressions based on their experiences if the 05 makes that much of a difference.

jb7227

I was at my local LM dealer today to get oil changed on my wife's 04 Aviator Ultimate. While I was waiting, test drove the 05 Nav Ultimate. Very impressed. Interior more plush than Aviator & lots more room inside - especially w/third seat folded down. Feels much smoother riding as well. I have read some comments about lack of power - certainly didnt notice any. Only concern - cant open the tailgate in the garage like the Aviator can! List was $63485 (Ultimate 4wd w/Nav system, DVD player, Monochrome Pkg, Trailer Pkg, HID lamps) - dealer said $ 51500 w/ all rebates. (including conquest $1000 because we own a caddy 05 sts)

Is that an OK price? not eligible for x/a plan or anything like that

cornellpinoy

Sorry for not replying sooner. I have a set of light gray Weathertech mats in my SUV. While they do use a lot of rubber to make it thick and heavy, it isn't very durable since the rubber they use is too soft. After only 2 years, there are holes worn through where the heel of my shoe rests on the mat. I'd suggest looking for a mat that is not as pliable. Costco sells a set of heavy duty mats that are holding up much better in one of my other cars.

murphdog

The Nav your looking at is the same one I am. The invoice looks to be 55,274. There is the 1st $2,000 customer cash, a 2nd $2000 customer cash w. free Rear DVD system worth another $1217 (@ cost). It looks like they added an additional $1,000 today for " Wish List" money.

Add your Conquest money (which I don't qualify for) and it looks like you could get this under $50K. I am going to offer the dealer $49.5K and see if he bites. At $49-50K, I think this would be a screaming buy!!

 

Anybody have an idea of current residuals on 3 yr/36K leases and money factors?

stever

Car_man would know over in Lease Questions - Ask Here if no one here steps in with the numbers.

 

Steve, Host

jb7227

Thx for the advice! Talked to the salesman today - invoice was a bit higher than you said. However, I'm down to 50750. The current incentives (wish list) are extended thru 1/10. Im also not sure if I like the monochromatic package(which was on the unit he located for me). Since we have a 2 year old, I need the 2nd row bench seat. Doesnt seem to be a popular option on the Nav. Color - we're leaning toward cashmere tri-coat or the oxford white - both w/camel leather. At least we have a better selection of colors than the Escalade - I think they offer only five colors. Thinking of pulling the trigger soon...

jb7227

btw murphdog - I got a lease quote and the residual for a 39 month 15,000/yr lease (that's what Ford Credit uses now) was a suprisingly high 44% - and the interest rate used was 2.25% (for money factor, divide .0225 by 24). Edmunds lease calculator has proven to be pretty accurate. Remember to add local property taxes to your pmt as well - at least we have to in Taxachusetts!!

jb7227

Has anyone out there had any experience with Sirius w/the navigation system? Is it integrated with the touch screen controls? I havent yet checked out the price - but now that I have XM in my other car, I couldnt live w/o it. Looking for feedback on the dealer installation & costs.

 

Thx

murphdog

I got some updates today as well. I was considering the 05 based on the new 6 speed auto. But then the dealer threw a 47K price at me on the 04 Black he has in stock w. all the same equipment as the 05. I may not be able to pass it up. He (Dealer GM) also is steering customers away from the power running boards. Mainly because they are a pain in the @$$, and the option is only available on the bucket seat combination (not conducive to 3 kids under 4 years old). I also got him to cough up the financial data. 46% residual at 3 yr/45K miles. Add 2% for to go to 36K miles. Money factor is 2%. Your color selections are the best, but they are new for 05. My wife is in to the Black w/monochrome package. Will let you know how I make out with negotiation tomorrow.

 

I am in Taxachusetts as well, which dealer are you working with? I have been going between Sentry, Clark and Acton

jb7227

I am going with Pride L-M in Lynn. I have purchased a LS, Mountaineer and Aviator thru them and have been very satisfied. Service dept is great too. Only problem is that they are a bit smaller than the dealers you are working with, so not too much inventory on the lot. I have to check out the residual - maybe I can squeeze 46% from them vs. 44%.

motoman44

My 03 Navigator has the O/D off switch on the thumb side. I just realized that the thumb is for the newer models. The later 03s and 04s have them on the thumb side. Mine must be a B model. I realized also that it has an engine block heater so it must have come from up north. It looks like it just rolled off the assembly line though.

nvbanker

You have a B, as I do. I've been happy with my

B, the issues have been minor "first year intro of new model" things. All major functions have been stellar and the design, features and performance of the truck can't be equalled in my opinion by any of the competition so far. Love the heated and COOLED seats, love the power folding third seat, the power, the handling, the competence of the climate control. I'm very pleased overall.

artd1

Hi, I live in NJ and I am also intersted in a 05 Black Monotone. I have worked out a deal but the dealer meets dead ends when trying to get one from another dealer. $47 for a new 04 sounds good. Good luck, Did you neg. a 2005?

murphdog

jb7227 got $50,750 including the $1K Conquest cash that I am not eligible for. I had a dealer quote me $52K over the phone after only a 3 minute discussion on a similarly equipped NAV that he is buying. That leads me to believe that jb7227 has a great price. 04's are still plentiful!! I would guess there as many 04's as there are 05's around here based on the inventory searches I've done for New England.

 

I am stalling the dealer on my 04. Their year ends officially Monday. I wouldn't worry however, the new incentives coming out will probably be better than the current ones on any remaining 04's.

jb7227

Murphdog - After back and forth with the wife, she wasnt crazy about the monotone (although I agree it looks great on the black Navs). I definitely want her to love the color for 50K+!

Decided to order one today - I get Automotive News and see the 1000's of Navs in inventory (over 100 days supply)- I'll take my chances that the programs will only get better from here.

 

I ordered:

Cashmere Tri-Coat 495

DVD player 1415

Navigation System 2995

HID Headlamps 495

Chrome Wheels 695

Trailer Pkg 350

40/20/40 bench seat

Dove Gray leather seats

 

MSRP should come out to around $63,680

Not sure how long it will take, since the Wayne MI plant is idle for "inventory adjustment" - my guess is 6 weeks.

 

My personal opinion - although the dealers have lots of 04's left and the deals are unbelievable, the 6 spd auto and the new engine (same hp, more torque) was worth paying for with the 2005.

motoman44

I drove the 05 ulitmate with Nav on friday. Owning an 03 I didn't get the feeling that I was missing out on anything. The six speed with the 3 valve engine didn't drive any different. The gas mileage was the same, Still drinks premium and now you must pay extra for HID headlights that were standard in 03 & 04 on ultimates. PLUS the 03 & 04 wheels look nicer. I would get the 04. They are offering 14,500 off 04 ultimates in NC.

founder

I love the Nav, and would get the 05 because of the increased HP, Torque, and new 6 speed trans(not much difference over the 04), but a fully loaded Nav is 64 grand. It's a bit steep cause the lower Expedition has the same engine, hp, and Torque. A toped out Expedition is about 50 grand. I just don't see what Lincoln has done to Nav to warrant a 12-14 thousand price increase over the EXP. I test drove both, and the EXp feels a little faster, but it's due to its less weight. I've also found that Navs depreciate like a brick in water. I'm so twisted cause I really want a lux suv, and my picks are the NAV or Infiniti's QX, but that truck has mechanical issues. I'm at a lost.

jb7227

I know what you mean - 12-14 large is a pretty steep premium - but when I see the Nav and the Expedition side by side, the Expy just doesnt look expensive - at least the Nav does (IMO). The grille, wheels, chrome touches on the Nav do make it look more exclusive. Of course, I realize I'm probably just the sucker Ford is looking for to pay up for the Nav - but if Im going to spend 50K, I want it to look the part (without being flashy like the Escalade). The interior is totally different from the Expedition as well. I would much rather spend my hard earned dollars on an American car (or truck) - even if some of the [non-permissible content removed]. trucks are built in the U.S. - the money still flows overseas...

nvbanker

After you get done cutting the deal between the topped out Expedition, and the Navigator, I'm betting for the difference, whatever that turns out to actually be, (less than $14K, probably), you'll have some real differences. Like

THX sound maybe, power running boards, the interior design is worth a lot to me, which the QX-56 can't touch, it is the same as the

Armada, with just more wood. Frankly, I'd pay $10K just for the interior of the Navigator alone vs. the Expedition. I believe the engine on the Navigator is tuned for premium to get you a little more power than you get from the engine in the Expedition on regular, even though the engine is essentially the same now. I own an Infiniti that I'm very disappointed in, and the Dr. on my block has an Armada he is very unhappy with, so I agree, I'd stay away from the QX-56.

ANT14

Armada-QX56, EKKK...reliability nightmare.

 

Many discounts available on Nav.

 

Expy might feel quicker because NAV has more insulation, it gives the impression your isolated, and slow.

 

Large SUV's are carrying a big discount and sales have slowed a bit because of gas issues. Market is moving towards car-based SUV's, and midsize class.

founder

Well I'm sure most will say go for the Nav once i say that my dad works for Ford, and I get a huge discount. The negative is that I live in FL and since the dealers here rarely get folks coming in with the FORD discount, the salesman whole disposition change for the worse when I mention it. That's not going to stop me, but there is so much to consider cuase of the good choices that are out there.

jb7227

If you are getting the "cold shoulder" from the salesman because of the x,a,z plan discounts, see the manager - i would assure you they are not losing money on the sale! I agree with the posts about the QX56 and Armada - who is Nissan kidding with that styling? It looks disjointed behind the rear doors. The interiors are awful too - just all gray. The Nav's seats and instrument panel blow them away.

akirby

The dealer isn't losing money but you've just taken the potential for extra profit away from the salesman. Just ask for the sales manager - I usually deal with them directly anyway unless I need a test drive. And if they won't help you find another dealer.

ladynav

I am picking up my Navigator on the Ford X plan today, and the dealer I used was totally a-ok about it, and did not give me any change in disposition. I used Longwood Lincoln in Orlando. Good luck to you!

pjb3

We are about to have our 3rd child and currently drive an AWD Mountaineer that I have loved but it doesn't have 3rd row seats so we need to move up. My husband wants me to get a minivan and I really, really want a Navigator. We can't afford to buy new so any tips on used models, what to look for, etc. are appreciated. Since I live in Denver and don't love driving in the snow, will 4WD Navigator be o.k. or should I go for the AWD minivan? And, is the 3rd row easy enough to get to with 2 car seats in the 2nd row? Any tips, advice?

 

Thanks.

akirby

I hate to say it but a minivan with captain's chairs in the second row (without a 2nd row center console) will be a lot easier to get in and out of the 3rd row with 2 car seats because you can walk between the seats.

 

In the Nav you have to fold down the rear seat which you can't really do with a car seat attached. I suppose you could remove the rear console in the Nav if you really wanted.

 

Either should be ok in the snow but you should probably use snow tires.

 

The new Aviators/Mountaineers with 3rd row seating actually have a lot of room compared to the previous generation. They handle better than the Nav because they're smaller and more nimble. I'd check out a 2002 AWD mountaineer or 2003 AWD Aviator before I decided.

stever

Get your speed control fixed:

 

Ford to Recall Trucks and SUVs (Inside Line)

 

Steve, Host

nvbanker

Not to disagree with akirby, he's a fine gentleman, however, a man who works for me, has a 99 Navigator, and he has 4 kids, 3 of which are in car seats. and loves the Navigator. He puts all 3 car seats in the 3rd seat, and can access them fine that way by folding down either of the ones in the second row on either side of the car. No question, a Minivan is the easiest kid hauler ever made, but if you like the size and strength of the large SUV, you can do it in the Gator if you want to.