I know this only is partially related to the whole xD vs Fit topic..but here goes!
If it were based on overall package..I think I would choose the Fit in a heart beat. Better looks, better stowage options, etc.
I'm a hatchback fan. I love the triangular shaped little guys! If I could have the GTI's looks and equipment with Toyota or Honda wiring and electronics...I would be in heaven!
Anywho...if my purchase decision was soley on the music system...the xD would get the prize.
Honda's radios are the worst in sound and quality that I have had experience with. The stock Scion radio...it is very nice for the vehicle price. The sound options, the sound quality, and the expandability of the Scion OEM radio blows the doors off any Honda OEM radio I have seen. The new Scions now also come with Pre-amp outputs, too. That was the biggest problem the Scion community had with the OEM unit.
I also know that all the new Scions come iPod capable. It does not only take the sound information (like an aux input)...but it is a dock connector so you get sound, power, ID3 tag info, and it charges it all at the same time. You also can control the iPod from the steering wheel and the radio which makes it many, many times safer than taking your eyes off the road to look down around your console to fiddle with your player.
Also (given the exact same song encoded the same way) the iPod dock connected player will sound better than *most* auxiliary input devices. I say *most* because 99.9% of the consumer aux inputs are dummied down. They are now a mix between a true auxiliary input and a true line input. So when you play your *insert any device, iPod included* through the aux input the sound is not going to be as accurate as the dock connector. You have a sound signal going through AT LEAST two signal processors changing the original signal to whatever the processor is setup to do. Could be an equalizer setting, it could be a noise reduction setting, could be volume output, and on and on. Again, you have at least two IC chips or processors doing this (one in the player, one in the headunit) so that is two times/chances the signal has been "edited" from the original. Whereas, the dock connector is a "true" line level output. You can try to change the settings on the iPod while you use the dock connector, but it does not change the signal. All controls for volume, effects, EQs...etc, are only completed by one IC or processor on a clean signal. I think you get the point.
My Scion iPod radio (2006 MY) has both a dock and an aux. Best of both worlds! I will never use the aux for music since I have been an iPod user since 3G. Nothing compares in the total package of the iPod/iTunes. Sure there are better sounding units and better programs, but no other device comes close to the support, 3rd party support, or "all togetherness" of an iPod.
One last thing...over 70% of the MP3 player market share are iPods. That means for every 30 of every other MP3 player there are 70 iPods. So it is either cater to the whole market with lower quality (aux in), a majority of the market with higher quality (iPod direct connection), or a mix of the two (best option).
Hey crabbyman. I've got a question that you might know the answer to. On the xD, when my ipod is hooked up to the thingy that the xD has, will the EQ in my ipod control the sound levels coming out of the speakers in the xD. I have the latest gen 30g ipod, if that means anything in relation to the question. thanks
honda has an answer for this too; its called honda music link and it allows you to control the ipod through the stereo and charges it.
so i guess honda has done the same as scion, and catered to the majority and minority.
didnt the fits stereo get rated better? i could care less about amp pre-out's, if i ever go aftermarket, its to get a new head unit and some good speakers; i'm not trying to force my music on the ENTIRE neighborhood.
having said that , the stock stereos in the old xb and xd are very nice, and i have always liked them.
Honda Music Link was buggy trash. They may have discontinued it by now. Maybe they will come out with an improved version that works properly in the future.
I heard the honda hookup was in the glove box and you had to run the wire out of it to the drivers seat to control it. The xD is right in front of the shifter which is an improvment at least in location of the port. I just want to control my sound levels through my ipod. It would be fantastic if I could adjust the levels on my ipod eq through the buttons on the steering wheel of the xD. The best of both worlds. What do you say crabbyman? Will it work.
the music link connected throught the glove box, but you could control it from the factory stereo...i have never heard of a wire coming from the drivers seat to do so...?
it worked for some people, for others no. and the point still stands: scions system/interface SHOULD be better, its 6 YEARS newer!
the fit is still holding its own if we can even compare them at all!
How can I connect it through the aux input and get it to work? Using one of those radio selection things that lets it play on a dead station. The nav is gonna be high. The always are at the dealer and you can usually do better for less elsewhere. Nav will probably be 800 to 1200. But very handy to have.
In order to use an IPOD on A fit you must pay a healthy sum for the adapter. You must also pay to have this part installed. All Scion cars come standard with the IPOD hookup
I doubt the Fits radio was rated better than the Scion XD's radio since the XD is not even out yet.
You would not use the Radio channel thing. You would just purchase a headphone jack that has male ends on both ends. This way would sound much better than using your radio adapter. You can purchase one of these cords for about $5 This is what I am doing on my 08 XB
You must purchase and have the Honda dealer install the IPOD adapter for the FIT. The Scion comes with both an AUX imput and an IPOD connector. The advantage of ther IPOD connector is: 1. The IPOD is charged via the Connector 2. The IPOD is controled and files are accessed via the Scions Radio and steering wheel controls.
I also like the Honda Fit I however am not going to pay $17000 for a stripped Fit. The dealers in California are marking these vehicle up $2000 or more. When the XD come out I will be trading in my wifes XA if the Honda continues to price gouge its customers. When the XD comes out it will be priced about the same as a Honda Fit but will come with more standard features.
I paid less for my 08 XB than I would have paid for a Honda Fit
The Matrix replacement is rumored to have the 1.8 or the optional 2.4 but I could be wrong. Toyota may drop the Matrix name and go with the Blade name. There may also be a model above the Blade I think that model would get the 2.4 or the 3.5. We will have to wait and see.
17k for a stripped fit? WOW I was in N.C a while back and they had the loaded fit sport for 16 and change and the dealers would deal with you on the price. No way would I pay those C.A prices. Its not a bad car but the car is not worth that kind of money. Even 17k for a loaded one is nuts. :confuse:
A man among boys in this price range (in terms of solid feel, power from a familiar respected source, and room).
An economy wagon version of the Camry (or 2WD RAV-4).
Its essentially still a micro-van with the chair like seating and gobs of space in a compact form, but feels much more substantial and doesn't come across as a joke anymore.
Fuel economy from the '08 xB is on par with many sub $20k cars. The xD should improve on that while retaining much of the xB's utility. From a purely practical perspective, I expect the new Corolla will have its hands full trying to compete with the xD.
Frankly I don't need all the space of an '08 xB and would like better mileage (I do about 27,000 miles per year). OTOH if prices are close and real world rural/highway mileage is close, I'd have no problem buying the xB.
i know you have to have the part installed, and it allows you to do what you want with the radio controls.
it also charged the ipod.
and the regular aux input is just fine.
honda isn't jacking up the price; the honda DEALERS you go to are. 17k for a fit usually means a unique trimmed interior, leather wrapped shifter, larger rims and sport muffler in nc.
and regardless of what ANYONE says; the xd SHOULD have/offer more/better features....
doubt the Fits radio was rated better than the Scion XD's radio since the XD is not even out yet
did you bother reading the review? they TESTED both of the cars, and favored the fits over all layout and lack of 'i just got a stereo from best buy' look, even if it lacked the bass of the scion.
My friend's Fit Sport automatic was nice in many ways, but...
It was extremely slow, making the paddle shifters a sick joke, like racing a 3 year old on a tricycle.
After having to change a number of headlight bulbs (between 50,000 miles per year, running lights, and country driving with low beam/high beam switching) I looked at how you'd change headlight bulbs on the Fit (since the hood comes down between the lights). Owner's manual confirms that you turn the front wheel and remove the wheel well liner to get to them. And of course its generally recommended to change both bulbs at the same time.
Here in the great white north, headlights usually get changed in the dark winters when we use/need lights the most and the wheel wells are caked with salty ice (what kids call snow buggers). If you bring the car inside to work on it, you catch the slow shower of salty slush and a wet back (if you don't have a mechanic's creeper).
The Fit isn't designed for drag racing, but I've found the paddle shifters very usefull for downshifting going down hills or going into curves. It's the great handling that I really like about the Fit.
I think if honda does a radical redesign on the fit the way the did on the civic and give it a bit more of a tough look, as opposed to the mini odessey look, and bump the hp up 20 it will be a fantastic car. Maybe even hondas best seller if gas prices continue their climb. I just wish they would get it done. Its at least a year away. Maybe more :mad: This fall the xD will be the best bang for the buck.
I agree with the intelligence of small hatches vs boy racers. But as a 8,000 Americans are turning 60 everyday the baby boomers are looking towards retirement, with the joys of fixed income and looming gas prices, my guess is that small hatches may again attract this same generation.
But over the years they've become spoiled, bigger, and conservative. They've gotten used to near luxury, realiability, quicker, and roomier rides (compared to hatches from 30+ years ago). And of course they don't want to give any of that up. An easy to afford, easy to access, and easy to drive vehicle with micro-van utility may be exactly what they really (deep down) want.
Those over (dare I say starting at age 50) start to give up on mid-life dreams for whats practical. Realiability is paramount for seniors as they little tolerance for breakdowns and most don't carry cellphones. As roads get more crowded and arthritis makes getting in and out of a car more difficult, a taller, more narrow 4-door makes sense. With fixed incomes a less expensive car that is cheaper to operate makes sense. And having the option to carry bulky items is always a plus.
As I approach that demographic, the xB and xD both push many of these buttons. I drive more like a grandmother than a boy racer, but the Fit Sport with automatic was painfully slow for anything but sedate (great grandmother) driving.
A lot of folks want practical small hatches and not a pimped-out rice burner...save that for the Civic SI crowd.
Man I'm not talking about a 200HP civic. But I do need more than 108 horses on nyc freeways. The fit is fine if you never leave surface streets but on the freeway, fugitaboutit.
Not to pile on regarding the anemic Fit acceleration, but there's more to performance than strictly the numbers. In the 70s a friend had a Fiat X-I9 (very small mid-engine two-seater). It was a blast! You sat very low, the engine was right behind you making nice sounds (that you could also feel), and it cornered like crazy so it seemed like you were going much faster than actual. But the Fit is smooth, quiet, and you sit tall so it provides no sense of exagerated speed.
i understand that how a car handles can add to the fun factor when driving, but when merging on to a freeway, you don't want exaggerated speed... you need real speed.
I agree completely, I was trying to address the fun or satisfaction aspects of acceleration. Around Detroit folks drive fast primarily to be aggressive. If they see a small foreign nameplate, its easy pickings for them. The older below grade freeways don't have acceleration lanes and you can't really see what's going on until you're down near the end of the entrance ramp.
That's the biggest reason why I wouldn't half "mind" going with the new xB versus the new xD.
I think folks that are having a problem merging on a highway either don't know how to drive or are carrying 1000lbs worth of passengers in their car!
I've put 10,000 miles on my Fit auto in 7 months of ownership and a lot of highway miles, taking several long road trips with my wife, daughter and so much stuff in the back that I had to use my side mirrors to see behind me, and I've never felt that the car was underpowered on the highways. Plus if you want to race, the VTEC kicks in around 3500rpm, so if you're willing to sacrifice MPG, then you can get more power that way too.
even the most under powered car is able to cruise nicely at highway speeds. the point i was trying to make is many on ramps are very short and a car has to get up to highway speeds quickly to merge. i know that it can be scary when the traffic is moving at 65-70 mph and you're on a short on ramp with a car full of people. the weight of the people and the luggage you were carrying had to slow down the small engine of the fit. anyway, i'm glad you're happy with your fit, but i think i'd want a few more horses under the hood to feel safe under those conditions.
There would be a lot less traffic on the freeways if everyone drove with a car load of people "and the luggage." Then merging on all these supposed dangerously short on ramps would be a major issue in their lives. Or maybe not since there would be so much less cars on the road if that was the case.
When you are driving in the slow lane and see someone trying to merge into traffic, you either speed up to get ahead and out of their way, slow down to let them in front, or move over to the next lane to give them space. You do not keep driving the same speed and rear end them. If you choose to do so, you are at fault.
There will always be vehicles that can't accelerate quickly, whether it is an 18 wheeler, someone pulling a trailer or someone who packed their car full of people and stuffed their trunk full of bags of heavy luggage. People will have to deal with it as part of driving in traffic.
The American fuel tax structure (and our "need" to have everything yesterday) subsidizes the trucking industry (that cause 99% of road damage). BTW my brother owns a small trucking business.
The American standard of living and relatively cheap fuel prices support excessive cars and driving.
In some states merging traffic, as per the signs posted, must yield to freeway traffic. Evidently jaxs1 you've not driven in Detroit either. Only until "enough" people are killed do roads get changed. I have no problem dying for a good cause, just don't want to be either the "enough" or "not enough yet" guy.
Its an important safety feature IME to be able to accelerate briskly and stop smartly. Car design is following the U.S. healthcare : concentrate on the cure but don't avoid the problem to start with. Sixteen is too young to drive. Drivers are very poorly trained. Drivers shouldn't be allowed to eat, make a phone call, etc. Enforcement overall is way too weak.
Instead we add weight and cost while taking control away from the driver with ABS, traction control, etc. and soon weaker engines again. I drive like a grandmother, but always liked Saab's idea to provide turbo power when needed with 4 cylinder economy the rest of the time. VTEC is another variation, but to date tuned for boy racers not the more routine real world needs.
thanks for the driving lesson, but i can see you never tried to merge on a freeway during rush hour. those cars are too close together and take my word for it... they don't slow down for anyone and can't speed up because there is a car 20 feet in front of them and they can't pull over to another lane because it's full like the entry lane. not worth arguing about, but your utopian driving scenario doesn't exist in the real world.
People merge onto freeways everyday in old cars and trucks slower than any car currently built today including a Honda Fit maxed out with passengers and cargo. If everyone was tailgating each other at 70 and never slow down to let anyone in as you say, then no one would be able to get on the freeway at any speed.
"If everyone was tailgating each other at 70 and never slow down to let anyone in as you say, then no one would be able to get on the freeway at any speed."
Happens everyday in the major metropolitian areas.
Yes I had a 1983 Nissan Sentra MPG with 4M that was very slow, especially in cold weather. But after a few trips to Detroit I sold it. The mean spirited out of work autoworkers forced me off the road more than once as I tried to merge on (with no acceleration lane and no visibility until the end of the on ramp).
Even out in the country around my house slow drivers on rolling two-lane roads that stretch for miles call for something more than great-grandmother acceleration.
People get rammed everyday in nyc. People don't slow down for you, they speed up so you can't get in front of them. Its is dog eat dog in here and having 108 hp under the hood is going to get you eaten up. It is not enough power on the freeway but fine on for poking around on surface streets. In reality the little xD might not have enough either. I'm going to have to test drive it first but I might end up with a mazda 3 instead due to its 148hp under the hood and good overall mpg.. You guys saying the fit has enough power have never been a daily driver in NY or LA. That is for sure.
the fit is fine for daily driving. while it has low hp, it also has a high hp to weight ratio. but its different strokes for different folks and the fit is quicker than a lot of cars that are currently being driven safely on roads everywhere.
A lot of folks want practical small hatches and not a pimped-out rice burner...save that for the Civic SI crowd.
i would hardly call the civic si a pimped out rice burner. Anyone who wants to 'pimp out' their civic has no real performance intentions in mind. and bob its actually the civic si crowd who is modifying the fit. Performance honda does not automatically mean rice burner. thats a common misconception. no quick honda looks like a ricer. pick up any honda tuning magazine and there is a total lack of huge wings and ugly body kits. as stock looking as possible.
When you are driving in the slow lane and see someone trying to merge into traffic, you either speed up to get ahead and out of their way, slow down to let them in front, or move over to the next lane to give them space. You do not keep driving the same speed and rear end them. If you choose to do so, you are at fault.
Completely wrong...the driver who is merging is supposed to speed up or slow down to merge. It's not the job of those driving in the right lane to figure out what a merging driver is trying to do. The best and safest thing for those in the right lane is to drive at a constant speed, then it's easier for those merging...not trying to guess what they'll do.
Anyway, there is plenty of HP to drive safely in any situation. If you want more HP, get another car. There are plenty of folks buying Fits so a few less folks buying them because they want more power isn't going to hurt sales.
You do not have to "figure out" what the person merging is doing. They only have one place they can go. I didn't say it was their "job" to do it. You just do it because it is common sense. If you are in such a hurry, you don't "ram" the car trying to merge into traffic and then deal with being involved at an accident scene for an hour or more. The other person says people just "ram" the cars merging into in NYC everyday rather than make room for them. If you can't move over to the next lane, then just slow down since you're in the "slow lane" anyway.
You can't slow down because most nyc hways on ramps end in about 100 feet or less. And if you stop you're as good as dead. You have to have power and you have to be very aggressive. Their is a reason why 96% of all cabs are crown vics. Power. But the fit is a fine car for its purpose, city surface streets, but it has no place on the BQE. If you live in a area where the majority of the drivers are U.S born and were raised with some form of manners, it is not a bad car. The 2nd gen should be outstanding and address the hp issue with a optional motor that big city drivers need to survive.
I went by a toyota dealer today and saw the little yaris hatchback. It is a cute little car but, like the fit, lacking in the hp and unlike the fit, I hear it has some handling issues like a ton of body roll. But TRD has solutions for the suspension issues so with the proper parts it would be a decent ride for someone outside of big cities. It is a very basic car but if it had the new 1.8 that the xD is going to have, it would be a solid little ride in a 5MT. I hear overseas they have a hot little yaris on the market. About two years ago at the car show hear they had it on display. I'd buy that car in a new york minute!
Let me try to explain in another way why it's best to maintain a constant speed in the right lane (that is, if you're driving a reasonable speed in the right lane).
When you're merging and looking at the traffic in the right lane, you're speeding up based on the moving cars in the right lane. If they just keep a constant speed, it's pretty easy to slip in front or behind a car, but if the car you're planning on slipping in behind then decides to slow down to "help you out" now you either have to slow down even more to get behind him or speed up and get in front of him.
Or the driver in the right lane may decide to speed up to "help you out" and make it easier for you to merge behind him. Again, all this "helping out" by the right lane drivers just causes more conjestion as compared to just maintaining a constant speed.
Now with really short entrance ramps with zero visibility you're right in that those are dangerous situations and I would agree that if you're driving on these short on-ramps with zero visibility during rush-hour traffic all of the time, I'd get a Crown Vic too! But that's not "normal" driving for most of America, but if you're in this situation with a bunch of rude drivers then get something big and old. Personally I'd never live in such a place.
Well, I've driven in NYC many times cause I got a lot of friends down there. Most of them drives mid to late 90's rollas,civics, nissans, cavs, accords... (what's the point of driving a brand new car in the tri-borough area?) that accelerates slower than the fit and yet they never had a problem getting around on a daily basis. I never had a car that goes from 0-60 quicker than 10 secs and again, driving in boston where the on ramps are on par with NYC, I never had a problem merging onto the highway.
I don't know what time or section of the BQE you're on, but everytime I got on there (mostly from brooklyn), traffic is crawling. The LIE though is different story.
Dude I ride on the BQE every single day. You don't know what you are talking about. I drive a Kawasaki ninja on that death trap and its pure murder. The only thing that keeps me alive is that I can go 0 to 60 in 3.7 seconds and quickly evade the nut jobs.
I have driven it too with a number of crap rental cars from PT Cruisers to Neons etc. Speed to merge was never any more of a problem than a lot of other places. You just have to know how to drive and that's all. A Fit manual would have done a much better job than 90 percent of the NYC compact rental cars.
Now motorcycles going 0-60 in 3.7 seconds on busy highways that does cause a lot of dangerous problems in many cities. The only good news is that the greatest danger usually lands the reckless motorcycle drivers in worse shape than cars going 0-60 in 13 seconds.
As luck would have it, I know how to drive my bike and it is not often I use the power it has. Only when the tourist who come into town riding on my roads clueless to where they are going who think they know everything about a city they do not live in. Stay in mayberry. We have enough people from Idaho already screwing up traffic.
It will be interesting to see how Toyota/Scion fit the pricing of the xD (and new Corolla) into the overall line-up.
My Toyota/Scion/Lexus dealer tells me that Scion pricing is simply based on removing the typical mark-up, which seems about right when trying to compare xA to Yaris, tC to Camry (I know that's more of the stretch), or the new xB to Camry (another bit of a stretch).
Another consideration is how the market will value a hatchback versus a sedan.
The new xB went up $3000 but jumped up two engine sizes. The old xA and xB were $1200 apart with the same engine.
I was getting ready to say the same thing about getting on topic!
Anyways...I was first under the impression that you were originally. The marketing/hype around Scion that was fed/marketed around here (Ohio) was that the dealer made $500 on the car and made most of their money on the added accesories.
Now this is still true. However, there is still the incentives and kickback included for the dealer that cannot be taken off. So think of most other dealers as Scion pricing plus any mark-up.
I, too, will be interested to see how this all fits into Toyota's pricing scheme since Scion is supposed to introduce you to their other brands.
The lack of mark-up also "hurts" the dealers a little. If they have a car that they have a hard time moving they cannot do what most dealers do and chop $3000 off the price. Well..they can but it would be a loss on the dealership, not breaking even because of the markup.
I'm still a fan of the xA and Gen 1 xB more than the replacements. Personally, I think unless they do something with the tC soon, the xB is now going to steal sales from the tC. People's biggest gripe was the small engine (which was one of the biggest selling points to me).
If there were cruise offered standard in the Great Lakes sales region when I got my tC, I would have opted for the xB or xA. Coming from a car without cruise and traveling frequently, it was on top of my "must have" list. Also...my Metro was 3 cylinder 78hp(?) so a 4 cylinder 104hp(?) xA/xB would still be enough for me. I know it would cost them money but I think it would be a nice move to offer 2 engines in the xB or xD. One being the newer frugal smaller engine and maybe one a step "below" the tC.
Comments
If it were based on overall package..I think I would choose the Fit in a heart beat. Better looks, better stowage options, etc.
I'm a hatchback fan. I love the triangular shaped little guys! If I could have the GTI's looks and equipment with Toyota or Honda wiring and electronics...I would be in heaven!
Anywho...if my purchase decision was soley on the music system...the xD would get the prize.
Honda's radios are the worst in sound and quality that I have had experience with. The stock Scion radio...it is very nice for the vehicle price. The sound options, the sound quality, and the expandability of the Scion OEM radio blows the doors off any Honda OEM radio I have seen. The new Scions now also come with Pre-amp outputs, too. That was the biggest problem the Scion community had with the OEM unit.
I also know that all the new Scions come iPod capable. It does not only take the sound information (like an aux input)...but it is a dock connector so you get sound, power, ID3 tag info, and it charges it all at the same time. You also can control the iPod from the steering wheel and the radio which makes it many, many times safer than taking your eyes off the road to look down around your console to fiddle with your player.
Also (given the exact same song encoded the same way) the iPod dock connected player will sound better than *most* auxiliary input devices. I say *most* because 99.9% of the consumer aux inputs are dummied down. They are now a mix between a true auxiliary input and a true line input. So when you play your *insert any device, iPod included* through the aux input the sound is not going to be as accurate as the dock connector. You have a sound signal going through AT LEAST two signal processors changing the original signal to whatever the processor is setup to do. Could be an equalizer setting, it could be a noise reduction setting, could be volume output, and on and on. Again, you have at least two IC chips or processors doing this (one in the player, one in the headunit) so that is two times/chances the signal has been "edited" from the original. Whereas, the dock connector is a "true" line level output. You can try to change the settings on the iPod while you use the dock connector, but it does not change the signal. All controls for volume, effects, EQs...etc, are only completed by one IC or processor on a clean signal. I think you get the point.
My Scion iPod radio (2006 MY) has both a dock and an aux. Best of both worlds! I will never use the aux for music since I have been an iPod user since 3G. Nothing compares in the total package of the iPod/iTunes. Sure there are better sounding units and better programs, but no other device comes close to the support, 3rd party support, or "all togetherness" of an iPod.
One last thing...over 70% of the MP3 player market share are iPods. That means for every 30 of every other MP3 player there are 70 iPods. So it is either cater to the whole market with lower quality (aux in), a majority of the market with higher quality (iPod direct connection), or a mix of the two (best option).
so i guess honda has done the same as scion, and catered to the majority and minority.
didnt the fits stereo get rated better? i could care less about amp pre-out's, if i ever go aftermarket, its to get a new head unit and some good speakers; i'm not trying to force my music on the ENTIRE neighborhood.
having said that , the stock stereos in the old xb and xd are very nice, and i have always liked them.
it worked for some people, for others no. and the point still stands: scions system/interface SHOULD be better, its 6 YEARS newer!
the fit is still holding its own if we can even compare them at all!
If you connect it through the iPod dock connector, it will use your stereo EQ settings.
What I REALLY would like is the new navigation unit for the 2008 Scions as options. ..nice!
All Scion cars come standard with the IPOD hookup
I doubt the Fits radio was rated better than the Scion XD's radio since the XD is not even out yet.
You would just purchase a headphone jack that has male ends on both ends. This way would sound much better than using your radio adapter.
You can purchase one of these cords for about $5
This is what I am doing on my 08 XB
The Scion comes with both an AUX imput and an IPOD connector.
The advantage of ther IPOD connector is:
1. The IPOD is charged via the Connector
2. The IPOD is controled and files are accessed via the Scions Radio and steering wheel controls.
I also like the Honda Fit I however am not going to pay $17000 for a stripped Fit. The dealers in California are marking these vehicle up $2000 or more.
When the XD come out I will be trading in my wifes XA if the Honda continues to price gouge its customers.
When the XD comes out it will be priced about the same as a Honda Fit but will come with more standard features.
I paid less for my 08 XB than I would have paid for a Honda Fit
A man among boys in this price range (in terms of solid feel, power from a familiar respected source, and room).
An economy wagon version of the Camry (or 2WD RAV-4).
Its essentially still a micro-van with the chair like seating and gobs of space in a compact form, but feels much more substantial and doesn't come across as a joke anymore.
Fuel economy from the '08 xB is on par with many sub $20k cars. The xD should improve on that while retaining much of the xB's utility. From a purely practical perspective, I expect the new Corolla will have its hands full trying to compete with the xD.
Frankly I don't need all the space of an '08 xB and would like better mileage (I do about 27,000 miles per year). OTOH if prices are close and real world rural/highway mileage is close, I'd have no problem
Another successful Toyota redesign.
DrFill
it also charged the ipod.
and the regular aux input is just fine.
honda isn't jacking up the price; the honda DEALERS you go to are. 17k for a fit usually means a unique trimmed interior, leather wrapped shifter, larger rims and sport muffler in nc.
and regardless of what ANYONE says; the xd SHOULD have/offer more/better features....
because its SIX YEARS NEWER.
just and fyi. :P
did you bother reading the review? they TESTED both of the cars, and favored the fits over all layout and lack of 'i just got a stereo from best buy' look, even if it lacked the bass of the scion.
It was extremely slow, making the paddle shifters a sick joke, like racing a 3 year old on a tricycle.
After having to change a number of headlight bulbs (between 50,000 miles per year, running lights, and country driving with low beam/high beam switching) I looked at how you'd change headlight bulbs on the Fit (since the hood comes down between the lights). Owner's manual confirms that you turn the front wheel and remove the wheel well liner to get to them. And of course its generally recommended to change both bulbs at the same time.
Here in the great white north, headlights usually get changed in the dark winters when we use/need lights the most and the wheel wells are caked with salty ice (what kids call snow buggers). If you bring the car inside to work on it, you catch the slow shower of salty slush and a wet back (if you don't have a mechanic's creeper).
This fall the xD will be the best bang for the buck.
But over the years they've become spoiled, bigger, and conservative. They've gotten used to near luxury, realiability, quicker, and roomier rides (compared to hatches from 30+ years ago). And of course they don't want to give any of that up. An easy to afford, easy to access, and easy to drive vehicle with micro-van utility may be exactly what they really (deep down) want.
Those over (dare I say starting at age 50) start to give up on mid-life dreams for whats practical. Realiability is paramount for seniors as they little tolerance for breakdowns and most don't carry cellphones. As roads get more crowded and arthritis makes getting in and out of a car more difficult, a taller, more narrow 4-door makes sense. With fixed incomes a less expensive car that is cheaper to operate makes sense. And having the option to carry bulky items is always a plus.
As I approach that demographic, the xB and xD both push many of these buttons. I drive more like a grandmother than a boy racer, but the Fit Sport with automatic was painfully slow for anything but sedate (great grandmother) driving.
Man I'm not talking about a 200HP civic. But I do need more than 108 horses on nyc freeways. The fit is fine if you never leave surface streets but on the freeway, fugitaboutit.
That's the biggest reason why I wouldn't half "mind" going with the new xB versus the new xD.
I've put 10,000 miles on my Fit auto in 7 months of ownership and a lot of highway miles, taking several long road trips with my wife, daughter and so much stuff in the back that I had to use my side mirrors to see behind me, and I've never felt that the car was underpowered on the highways. Plus if you want to race, the VTEC kicks in around 3500rpm, so if you're willing to sacrifice MPG, then you can get more power that way too.
anyway, i'm glad you're happy with your fit, but i think i'd want a few more horses under the hood to feel safe under those conditions.
When you are driving in the slow lane and see someone trying to merge into traffic, you either speed up to get ahead and out of their way, slow down to let them in front, or move over to the next lane to give them space. You do not keep driving the same speed and rear end them. If you choose to do so, you are at fault.
There will always be vehicles that can't accelerate quickly, whether it is an 18 wheeler, someone pulling a trailer or someone who packed their car full of people and stuffed their trunk full of bags of heavy luggage. People will have to deal with it as part of driving in traffic.
The American standard of living and relatively cheap fuel prices support excessive cars and driving.
In some states merging traffic, as per the signs posted, must yield to freeway traffic. Evidently jaxs1 you've not driven in Detroit either. Only until "enough" people are killed do roads get changed. I have no problem dying for a good cause, just don't want to be either the "enough" or "not enough yet" guy.
Its an important safety feature IME to be able to accelerate briskly and stop smartly. Car design is following the U.S. healthcare : concentrate on the cure but don't avoid the problem to start with. Sixteen is too young to drive. Drivers are very poorly trained. Drivers shouldn't be allowed to eat, make a phone call, etc. Enforcement overall is way too weak.
Instead we add weight and cost while taking control away from the driver with ABS, traction control, etc. and soon weaker engines again. I drive like a grandmother, but always liked Saab's idea to provide turbo power when needed with 4 cylinder economy the rest of the time. VTEC is another variation, but to date tuned for boy racers not the more routine real world needs.
not worth arguing about, but your utopian driving scenario doesn't exist in the real world.
If everyone was tailgating each other at 70 and never slow down to let anyone in as you say, then no one would be able to get on the freeway at any speed.
Happens everyday in the major metropolitian areas.
Yes I had a 1983 Nissan Sentra MPG with 4M that was very slow, especially in cold weather. But after a few trips to Detroit I sold it. The mean spirited out of work autoworkers forced me off the road more than once as I tried to merge on (with no acceleration lane and no visibility until the end of the on ramp).
Even out in the country around my house slow drivers on rolling two-lane roads that stretch for miles call for something more than great-grandmother acceleration.
i would hardly call the civic si a pimped out rice burner. Anyone who wants to 'pimp out' their civic has no real performance intentions in mind. and bob its actually the civic si crowd who is modifying the fit. Performance honda does not automatically mean rice burner. thats a common misconception. no quick honda looks like a ricer. pick up any honda tuning magazine and there is a total lack of huge wings and ugly body kits. as stock looking as possible.
Completely wrong...the driver who is merging is supposed to speed up or slow down to merge. It's not the job of those driving in the right lane to figure out what a merging driver is trying to do. The best and safest thing for those in the right lane is to drive at a constant speed, then it's easier for those merging...not trying to guess what they'll do.
I didn't say it was their "job" to do it. You just do it because it is common sense. If you are in such a hurry, you don't "ram" the car trying to merge into traffic and then deal with being involved at an accident scene for an hour or more.
The other person says people just "ram" the cars merging into in NYC everyday rather than make room for them. If you can't move over to the next lane, then just slow down since you're in the "slow lane" anyway.
I went by a toyota dealer today and saw the little yaris hatchback. It is a cute little car but, like the fit, lacking in the hp and unlike the fit, I hear it has some handling issues like a ton of body roll. But TRD has solutions for the suspension issues so with the proper parts it would be a decent ride for someone outside of big cities. It is a very basic car but if it had the new 1.8 that the xD is going to have, it would be a solid little ride in a 5MT. I hear overseas they have a hot little yaris on the market. About two years ago at the car show hear they had it on display. I'd buy that car in a new york minute!
When you're merging and looking at the traffic in the right lane, you're speeding up based on the moving cars in the right lane. If they just keep a constant speed, it's pretty easy to slip in front or behind a car, but if the car you're planning on slipping in behind then decides to slow down to "help you out" now you either have to slow down even more to get behind him or speed up and get in front of him.
Or the driver in the right lane may decide to speed up to "help you out" and make it easier for you to merge behind him. Again, all this "helping out" by the right lane drivers just causes more conjestion as compared to just maintaining a constant speed.
Now with really short entrance ramps with zero visibility you're right in that those are dangerous situations and I would agree that if you're driving on these short on-ramps with zero visibility during rush-hour traffic all of the time, I'd get a Crown Vic too! But that's not "normal" driving for most of America, but if you're in this situation with a bunch of rude drivers then get something big and old. Personally I'd never live in such a place.
I don't know what time or section of the BQE you're on, but everytime I got on there (mostly from brooklyn), traffic is crawling. The LIE though is different story.
Now motorcycles going 0-60 in 3.7 seconds on busy highways that does cause a lot of dangerous problems in many cities. The only good news is that the greatest danger usually lands the reckless motorcycle drivers in worse shape than cars going 0-60 in 13 seconds.
We have enough people from Idaho already screwing up traffic.
This forum is in dire need of a block function.
It will be interesting to see how Toyota/Scion fit the pricing of the xD (and new Corolla) into the overall line-up.
My Toyota/Scion/Lexus dealer tells me that Scion pricing is simply based on removing the typical mark-up, which seems about right when trying to compare xA to Yaris, tC to Camry (I know that's more of the stretch), or the new xB to Camry (another bit of a stretch).
Another consideration is how the market will value a hatchback versus a sedan.
The new xB went up $3000 but jumped up two engine sizes. The old xA and xB were $1200 apart with the same engine.
Anyways...I was first under the impression that you were originally. The marketing/hype around Scion that was fed/marketed around here (Ohio) was that the dealer made $500 on the car and made most of their money on the added accesories.
Now this is still true. However, there is still the incentives and kickback included for the dealer that cannot be taken off. So think of most other dealers as Scion pricing plus any mark-up.
I, too, will be interested to see how this all fits into Toyota's pricing scheme since Scion is supposed to introduce you to their other brands.
The lack of mark-up also "hurts" the dealers a little. If they have a car that they have a hard time moving they cannot do what most dealers do and chop $3000 off the price. Well..they can but it would be a loss on the dealership, not breaking even because of the markup.
I'm still a fan of the xA and Gen 1 xB more than the replacements. Personally, I think unless they do something with the tC soon, the xB is now going to steal sales from the tC. People's biggest gripe was the small engine (which was one of the biggest selling points to me).
If there were cruise offered standard in the Great Lakes sales region when I got my tC, I would have opted for the xB or xA. Coming from a car without cruise and traveling frequently, it was on top of my "must have" list. Also...my Metro was 3 cylinder 78hp(?) so a 4 cylinder 104hp(?) xA/xB would still be enough for me. I know it would cost them money but I think it would be a nice move to offer 2 engines in the xB or xD. One being the newer frugal smaller engine and maybe one a step "below" the tC.