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The New Scion 2008 xD
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However, from a marketing POV, I still think they will be shooting for some sort of "magic number", like $14,995. Which would make it about $650 less than the xB, unless that price were to include destination.
At $15-15.5K, it would be very competitively priced if you consider competing NON-Toyota vehicles, and the xD's standard feature set.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
very true, the xd has a long standard list; the only one to out do it for bang for buck would be the rabbit, which at this price only offers two doors (but a richer interior.)
And feature for feature the xD almost matches the base Rabbit - they are very close. You trade the power (and standard rear discs? I forget) of the Rabbit for the fuel economy and the two extra doors of the xD. With the Fit providing a third flavor for about the same money in the Sport trim.
And didja hear? For not much more money, there will soon be a Lancer Sportback available again, with power slotting in between the xD and Rabbit and most of the same standard amenities.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The rabbit will spend a lot of time sitting in the repair shop. I owned an original rabbit many years ago long before they changed the name to Golf.
I was run off the road on a blind corner and of course the guy didn't stop so my car was totalled by the time the estimate was finished. It was a good car handled great and got good economy but expensive to maintain and when something went wrong I would have no car for 2-3 days while they fixed it.
If you own a VW you really need a spare car for when it's in the shop and VW does not give you a loaner car either.
If the reliability went up (maybe actually make them in Germany?) it would be different but the Toyota built Scion and the Honda Fit are most likely going to be very reliable. I've already owned a 1.3L Jazz and it's a great city car more fun than my old rabbit but needs better tires. I'm going to need a second car for my wife and I think the Fit might be good but also the Scion xD is a real possibility. I sure won't pay sticker never mind OVER sticker for any car. Honda dealers have a bad habit of doing just that. :mad:
The local Toyota dealer here does not seem to ever have a Prius or Yaris on the lot. If they do, it lasts usually a few weeks at most.
I live in a dead industrial town turned truck stop with a lot of retired, poor industrial workers. So even in the recent month I have seen a slew of new-to-the-road scooters, Yaris, Priuses, Geo Metros,etc.
I, too, am a fan of the Yaris hatchback.
I have not researched this...but does VW still do the wonky wiring? ..didn't they run everything in series?
You can get a tach and the cruise by going with the sedan and buying the power package, but now you are looking at a $14-15K car, and the pedals are spaced too close together for my feet. Plus I much prefer the looks of the hatch to those of the sedan.
So I will stick with my old Echo for a while. The xD looks tempting, although I instantly dislike that silly looking gauge arrangement, with the tach arrayed like a fuel gauge on the other side of the speedo. And then it won't get near the Echo for fuel economy. The fuel economy of the current small cars on the market is very disappointing to me.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
pricing is going up a couple hundred bucks, but nothing out of the ordinairy. Yep rear discs are standard.
really? you know this for a fact? because mine has not spent anytime. (i'll assume you are still talking about the current gen rabbit, but basing your opinion on the prev gen golf.)
i guess vw dealers vary, but i don't see the need for a loaner anytime soon.
the rabbit is totally made in germany save for the engine which has german components and it sourced from mexico. Reliability for the mkV rabbits has much improved over their previous generation. I agree that reliability would probably be better on the fit, and the scion after a few years, but my bunny is no headache unless i go to the dealer and specifically ask for a '___mile service' and not just an oil change.
yup, DEF in your opinion, because not only is the power/torque (power is going to be up to 170 by the way) not only good on paper, but in real world driving too.
And the REALITY is that it hasn't been any kind of drain on patience...while probably not as cheap as an xd, it realatively low price makes up for its fuel disadvantage when compared to say a comparably equipped 20k civic or mazda 3. so the pocket is doing good.
i cant wait to see an xd in person. and with all the trd add ons it should be VERY fun to drive. I wish honda was more proactive about factory performance like toyota and vw are: lots of warranty safe mods that while a little expensive, have perfect fit and finish.
Lucky you! because I've owned a few VW's as has my family and many friends, yes including NEW models Jetta, Golf, Passat and New Beetle.
My ex-GF had a new beetle and loved it. She had the aftermarket wheels that looked like flowers. Anyway it was always in the shop for something. My friend who is a doctor he loved his Passat until after about a year the thing be came very problematic. Some of my co-workers have been real diehard VW fans but like Jeep owners wished their cars were more reliable. Many people like the VW but it just costs too damn much when something breaks out of warranty and they often have enough problems within warranty. I'm happy that you have no problems with yours....yet. But that just isn't the norm. i tried to find the JD Powers survey that shows manufacturer initial problems for various makes but I could only find the one with the 1-5 star rating.
VW's break, and often is my personal experience and that of people I know but they are loyal so they keep the car. One guy was royally screwed when he wanted a ride into work and found out I couldn't do it any longer as I had changed jobs, his VW Golf was always broken down it was like 3-4 years old, no idea how many miles on it. He bought it new. He loved that car but I'd say a Chevy Vega or a Ford Pinto or Fairmont would have been 10 times more reliable.
The dealers in my area were not the nicest people and always tried to squirm out of fixing anything under warranty.
So you can have VW, they blew their chance with me and probably many other people as well. But never fear I hear MINI is catching up to VW as far as poor service and poor reliability goes. Maybe VW won't be at the bottom any more?
When you get ripped off a few times you decide to not go through the hell that is VW again. Too bad because I would love to have a diesel.
Thank you! Yes! Who on Earth thought that stupid thing looked good? Not only ISN'T it very stylish, its functionality is compromised IMO. I am sure that it is going to be hard to read, with the speedo going the other direction on the same dial. Dumb.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
the new beetle was very poor in reliability the first couple years it was out. i know a couple of people who have later versions...and no problems.
newer golfs? ok. then they are not mkV's. Because the rabbit namplate is exclusive to the mkV platform and the only one you'll find with a 'golf' name plate is in germany. the difference between reliability/quality between the mkIV and mkV is HUGE.
if they are so awful, why did your family continue to buy newer vw's?
Fortunately our Scion/Toyota/Lexus dealer doesn't do any additional markups.
My family gave up on VW after many years of owning them and I think the last VW they owned was the dasher so that ought to date it for you. Me I bought a Golf back around 1990-91. I have had friends and others buy VW's and to put in in perspective the Dasher was on par according to my father far worse than the Chevy Vega he owned which he said was the absolute worst piece of trash he'd ever bought! My parents switched in Buicks for about 10 years then my Mom couldn't get what she wanted in a mid size wagon so she ended up going over to Subaru and was very happy with her Subaru's until she died. My father won't give up his Lesabre for any other car and his is like 10-11 years old and looks like it came out of the showroom.
Friends on the other hand have all tried VW, well not all, but more than a few and co-workers have as well.
VW has screwed them all over. I've heard the complaints again and again and I tell them VW did the same to me.
Ask around and you'll find that if a brand is always bad fro you you just vote with your wallet ad buy something else. What is VW going to offer me or anyone else to convince us that they are now reliable?
The cars are expensive and overpriced and the dealers are things I can't say in a public forum.
If the quality is so huge between the MkIV and the MkV, what does that tell you?
I've owned a LOT of cars both new and used and I have no intention of typing them all out for you. But I will NOT buy a VW, I will NEVER reccomend one to my family or friends under any circumstances and if they want to buy one it's ok, but I tell them don't come crying to me when you have problems with it. You deal with the dealer and the service depts yourself. I will not deal with the VW people any more I used to be the one who would sort it all out especially for co-workers but no longer.
I'm happy you like your VW and hope it serves you for many many trouble free miles. But nothing will make me buy a VW again. If I won their new R32 in a lottery I'd sell it as soon as I got the title!
I think it's probably going to be best if I don't really discuss the VW's any more. You like them as do others and I don't. I respect that you like and buy them.
I'd easily take the new Scion xD over the rabbit or any other VW. The scion should be reliable and as far as driving it goes I will try one when i get the chance.
Based on size, the Highlander (Camry platform) is a Camry wagon, the Matrix (Corolla platform) is the Corolla wagon, and the XD is the Yaris wagon.
Oh well...
I've never understood how a front wheel drive vehicle with unibody design (no separate frame) can be a "platform" at all. With finite element structural analysis and CAD seems like each body would be designed from the ground up with engines, brakes, and other parts pulled off the shelf.
So a tach ends up being pretty pointless. Howver I did test drive a 1989 Integra that was so quiet I needed the tach to know if the engine was running or not when the car was parked.
I've never understood how a front wheel drive vehicle with unibody design (no separate frame) can be a "platform" at all. With finite element structural analysis and CAD seems like each body would be designed from the ground up with engines, brakes, and other parts pulled off the shelf.
BTW while at the dealership we picked up a Scion brochere that included a section covering the xD. Notable differences with the new xB include larger turning radius, rear drum brakes vs. disc, VSC and traction control optional versus standard, and inclusion of active front headrests. EPA mileage is 25/32 manual and 27/33 automatic.
But overall is it worth squeezing the market with another medium sized SUV (and abandon the small SUV market)?
I'm certainly not impressed with 7 inches or several hundred pounds. If cubes are important, I'd get another Sienna. For me, any of these are plenty well enough equipped, so more equipment isn't a factor. As almost nobody "needs" a AWD SUV, the entire hybrid SUV concept is an oximoron IME. But price is a huge factor to me.
How well is the Highlander selling since introduction of the new RAV4?
Since the Camry is basically a 2.4L sedan the new xB is the long lost offspring of the old Gen 3 Camry. It rides and drives amazingly like a Camry. It's also a blast with a manual tranny with the 2.4L in such a relatively light weight vehicle.
Then you get VSC/Trac and all the airbags standard at a price $2000 less than the base CE Camry now. This may be Toyota's next Prius ( a hidden hit waiting to be discovered ).
If you want economy, get the xD. Want value, get the xB.
DrFill
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
BTW, C&D tested the Rabbit at 8.1, 0-60. :surprise:
My gas is 2.79 regular.
DrFill
Since wifey is sold on the new xB 5M, that leaves me with tough choices for a good alternate car. I'm thinking about an xD 4A, but it's expected price is virtually the same as a XB 5M. Does it make sense that they'd be the same price? Does it make sense to have two such similar cars?
I'm curious about your dealer macmanus? What is the "doc Fee" from the dealer.
I really like the dealership. I've seen their limits in terms of service (they can't fix my Mazda's overheating problem) and I've seen them take advantage of females in the service department (talking them into service that only a perfectionist would even consider). OTOH oil changes (including quicky car wash) are only $17 for our Sienna and $23 for the Mazda (didn't buy it there). Sales guys are nice. And they (very affordably) rent cars for a day/week/month. For under $30 I can rent a Corolla for a day (drive 200 miles), get the oil changed, and get reimbursed for the mileage from work (and clear money in the deal :shades: ).
Why don't all dealers rent cars? What a great way to really try one out. I brought home a RAV4 last summer for a night (while the dealer was waiting for Mazda parts that failed to be delivered) which made for a great chance for wifey to try it out.
They probably should post what they want to charge for doc fees next to the factory sticker since they charge the fee on all cars rather than springing it on you at the end. Maybe ths will be mandated in the future.
The dealers have no problem posting additional homemade stickers for their preinstalled dealer-installed accessories and "market adjustment."
The dealers should be mandated to also post all their self-made fees such as doc fees or "dealer prep" on these stickers. There is no reason for them to save this until you are signing papers to make the purchase.
Maybe being forced to post it on each car will give them incentive to lower it since they know other dealers might lower theirs as a competitive advantage.
The dealers make up and control these fees. It is not a mandatory fee such as sales tax, license and registration that you have to pay at any dealer.
They save the fees for last because the customer would not get to the papers if the fees were discussed up front.
On my xB, over a couple a visits to the salesman, I got a couple of prices written on the back of his business card. Not until I went to order the car and had to sign a purchase order, did I see there was $900 in 3 items called "documentation", "salesman", and "special benefits package". All were fees and non-negotiable under pure price. So I went to another dealer with lower fees. But evidently a lot of customers who get as far as the purchase order don't back out.
xD, I'll probably buy a year old honda civic ex.
I just wish the 2nd gen fit would be out this fall. I think honda is going to hit a home run on that one.
WITH shipping, the xD will be:
manual 15130
auto 15930
I will not likely be buying a xD this fall. I'm going home to honda or moving over to Mazda. Most likely I'll stay with Honda. My old prelude treated me good. Scion got greedy and lost a potential customer. 2k bump up from the xA.. Bad mojo