The New Scion 2008 xD

nippononly

Severa reviews now have quoted mileage numbers for the xD at 27/33, and that is in 2008-speak, which would be more like 30/36 in 2007 numbers.

And for the person who thought the Corolla is a much heavier car than the xD, think again. The Corolla weighs in at around 2500 pounds, barely heavier than the old xA. The xD will be heavier by 100-200 pounds, is my guess. However, the new engine has VVT-i on both intake and exhaust, which should flatten the torque curve even more, for better pep around town than the current Corolla.

719b

they must pack a lot into the xd to be heavier than a car that is 2 feet longer.
from reading some of the postings, the xd won't have cruise control. the few pics i've seen of the steering wheel and dash shows a stalk that looks like cruise to me... am i mistaken?

ohplezz

Eldaino its not only consumer reports. Do a do a internet search and the many vw owners whose experience mirrors the consumer report data. But lets face it. Neither one of us is going to convince the other of anything. We both feel strongly about the cars quality. Lets just call it a draw.

And the poster a while back was right about the motor being in both the corolla and the xD. You were right as well Eldaino. In the U.S the current gen corolla uses the old motor. In other countries the new motor, that will be in the xD, is being used in the new corolla that was released earlier this year.

And to the last poster, scion at first was going to be cheap and not offer cruise on the xD but people got pissed and started complaining to toyota and toyota coughed up the money for the cruise. Cruise control WILL be standard on the xD this fall.

http://www.toyota.com.au/corolla

http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007050338941

bobw3

VW is at the bottom of JD Powers as well as CR.

crabbyman

Is that 100% correct now? I have seen "press releases" "Standard Cruise" and releases saying that it won't have it. Then I have also seen release saying its a southwest thing only (similar to previous Gen's xA/xB).

If last Gen's xA/xB had standard cruise here in the Great Lakes area, I would have bought one of them instead of the tC. I did not want a dealer touching my electrical system, personally, unless it was absolutely necessary. So I went with the tC since it was the only Scion with standard cruise. :shades:

ohplezz

Its money in the bank brother. Nationwide cruise control standard on the xD. Check out toyota/scion press release page for conformation from the horses mouth.

Its gonna have.

mcmanus

The Aussies will get a 4 door Corolla hatch! Looks like a stretch Yaris hatch. So careful as we speculate regarding weight and mpg of the xD. With EPA's new mileage ratings down 20% from previous and gas over $3/gallon here in the U.S. its not a happy time for the frugally minded.

Cripe, my 2001 Mazda 626 with a V6 gets nearly the rated mileage of these cars. My 1983 Nissan Sentra got 40 mpg overall, real world. I'm sure vehicle weights in general have increased significantly, but has performance? Why can't manufacturers do better?

As the xA was $1200 cheaper than the old xB (with only a larger body and traction control as the main differences) I'm hopeful that the price gap between the new xB and xD will be bigger (like $2000 or more).

Both the hatch and sedan from the Aussie site look good to me. Wish we'd get the hatch here in the U.S. But if the Corolla costs $2-3000 more than the xD, they can keep it.

ohplezz

The mpg will be high20s/low 30s city and high30s/low 40s for hway if you don't gun the thing every where you go. The new epa ratings don't change a thing on what the real world mpg is gonna be. Its just numbers. But if you don't know how to drive to get good mpg then the new epa ratings are dead on.

And I think you are going to be disappointed with the xD price. At best I'm thinking the difference will be 1k between the 2 gen xB and the xD. Their is no way that its going to 2k. Not a chance.

iluvmysephia1

EPA numbers were re-calculated because people's "real-world" mileage was not matching what the manufacturer was putting on their car's sticker. So now they're lower than before.

But yes, they are just numbers. We can still calculate our gas mileage the same way and strive for better gas mileage figures.

mcmanus

I understand that they are just numbers. Trying to be sensitive to mileage and mechanical wear, I've always driven like a grandmother. So doing mostly rural/highway driving I hope to average over 35 mpg.

If the difference between Corolla and Camry is roughly $4000, the difference between xB and xD should be more than $2000. If not, I'll probably just go with the xB and with the kind of driving I do still hope to average over 30 mpg.

eldaino

funny, since the passat is reccomended by them, and they don't even have enough data to rate the rabbit/gti. and my point on who actually rates the cars (the subscribers of the magazine) still stands. Again,i'm not defending past vw's (even though there are many high mileage examples out there.), just the current generation.

oh well. back to the xd. anyone read the fitvsxd comparo? another testament that edmunds secretly has it out for honda...they just can't say it out loud. i read the full test for the fit sport after reading this, and was suprised at how much praise the fit was given on it drving dynamics...only to have its outstanding points dumbed down here. (i.e. ofcourse the xd is more stable...its a bit heavier!)

still, the fit certainly held its own...not bad for a almost six year old car. its nice to see the competition catching up.

ohplezz

Probably when it comes to bang for your buck, the xB is a better deal. But unless you do 90% of your driving on the Hway, you won't get a average of 30 with the xB. My sister bought one last week. She drives the way you do and in the city she is getting low/mid 20s but on the Hway she is geting in low/mid 30s. The xB is quite nice, good ride. She got a base model w/security system. You get a lot for your money with the xB. Probably the xB is a better value than the soon to be released xD.

ohplezz

Here is the comparo that Eldaino mentioned between the fit/xD. Myself I like the fit but its body and lack of horsepower kill the car for me. The car is in its 6th or 7th year of production so that makes it a outstanding car considering how long its been out. When the 2nd gen fit comes out it should be very nice if they update the body and bump up the pwoer up 20 or 25 horses. I love hondas. I've had a 96 si and it was/is a fantastic car. I might just hold off on buying anything this fall and see what the 09 model year has to offer from mazda and honda. A updated mazda 3 should also be very nice.

Introduction
By Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing Email | Blog
Date posted: 06-10-2007

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Kids today, eh? The 2007 Honda Fit Sport and 2008 Scion xD are meant to grab the attention of a generation that knows how to play it loud. These cars are supposed to be all about watts, speaker count and iPod inputs.

Yet they are both so sensible that you'd swear the coveted Gen-Y market was filled with aging no-bones consumers more interested in price and practicality than loud music. And in fact, older drivers are proving to be just as enthusiastic about sensible, stripped-down cars as younger drivers.

It's true that the 2007 Honda Fit Sport and 2008 Scion xD reflect the way in which cheap cars have been transformed into cool cars. But once you cut through the marketing hype, you discover that these cars capture our imagination precisely because they're about everything but loud music. Sorting them out is a matter of function, not flash.

Honda Has a Fit
While the Honda Civic has never shown a big thirst at the gas pump, its ever-increasing dimensions (and price) have squeezed it out of the entry-level market. Korean-built subcompacts have eagerly filled the void, hungry for the chance to secure new customers. And then, of course, Scion arrived in 2004, changing the rules in the entry-level market entirely.

Enter the Fit, which burst onto the U.S. market in 2006. First introduced in Japan, some 250,000 were sold there in 2002, which topped the country's sales charts. Just 35,000 examples of the Fit have been allocated yearly to American Honda, and 27,934 were sold over nine months in 2006.

Pricing for a base-model Fit starts at $14,445 and includes a full complement of safety features and most of the available convenience items. We tested the Honda Fit Sport, more fully equipped and vastly more popular as well. For $15,765 our Fit Sport features 15-inch alloy wheels carrying 195/55HR15 tires, cruise control, keyless entry, foglights, aero-style bodywork trim and a better stereo with an auxiliary input.

Every Fit features a 16-valve DOHC inline-4 with Honda's step-type VTEC variable valve timing, and the engine develops 109 horsepower.

Scion, You Crazy Diamond
As a branding exercise, the Scion experiment has been a huge success. Out of nowhere Scion has become the No. 1 Internet brand, with 80 percent name recognition among online shoppers under age 35. Even so, only 28,033 examples of the Scion xA were sold in 2006, less than half the number of Scion xB sales.

As a result, Scion has decided to renew the entry-level Scion's identity at the same time that it renews the hardware, so the xD has appeared. Banished is the anemic 103-hp 1.5-liter engine, and it's replaced by a 128-hp 1.8-liter mill with variable valve timing for both the intake and exhaust cams. The xD also makes side airbags standard, not optional as they were for the xA. The tires have grown to 195/60HR16s, and electronic stability control is available as an option. Features such as cruise control and keyless entry are now standard.

Standard content costs money, so a 2008 Scion xD will cost more than an xA when it goes on sale in August. Exact prices have not yet been announced, but expect the price of the xD to begin at about $15,080. Of course our test car had the optional stability control, a stereo upgrade and illuminated door sills, so we believe its as-tested price sits around $16,368, give or take a bit.

What Counts Is What's Inside
The Honda Fit and the Scion xD rest on nearly identical wheelbases, some 96.5 inches for the Honda and 96.9 inches for the Scion. Their other dimensions are also nearly the same, with the Fit measuring 2.7 inches longer while the Scion spreads 1.7 inches wider. These cars are both 60.0 inches tall.

Both of these front-wheel-drive cars have transverse four-cylinder engines. Both have strut-type front suspension. Both have a twist-beam rear axle (think of it as essentially a huge stabilizer bar with the wheels mounted on the ends) that helps to lower the height of the floor in the rear of the car even as it creates a void for a spare tire.

Honda even improves the Fit's space-efficiency by locating the fuel tank under the front seats. As a result, the floor height goes down farther still, enabling the second-row seatbacks to fold forward all the way into the footwells, creating a dead-flat loading floor and 41.9 cubic feet of cargo capacity. The seat bottoms can also be folded up to meet a normally positioned seatback, creating a "tall mode" suitable for standing a bicycle up in the backseat. In comparison, the Scion affords 35.7 cubic feet once the conventional split-back folding seats have been laid down.

The Honda Fit Sport offers 90.1 cubic feet of passenger volume and the Scion xD has 84.5 cubic feet of living space. In our experience, a wide variety of body shapes can find a comfortable fit behind the wheel of both cars, perhaps helped by the high hip point for the seating position. The Honda Fit's driving position and control layout did seem sized for smaller drivers, though, as the steering wheel fouled the knees of our tallest driver and the pedal action seemed designed for drivers who sit very close to the steering wheel.

Which One Is Go, Again?
Although we had VTEC-inspired expectations of extreme performance from the Fit Sport, our Honda hatch proved loath to accelerate without judicious rowing of the five-speed gearbox. This 16-valve DOHC inline-4's 109 hp and 105 pound-feet of torque aren't quite enough to move this 2,472-pound box smartly enough to make highway merges and passing maneuvers a matter of routine.

The Scion xD has 128 hp and 125 lb-ft of torque underfoot, so it moves out with much less fuss, despite weighing 2,615 pounds (143 pounds more than the Fit). Daily driving proved to be far less of a stress test, and fewer downshifts were required to summon up speed at the right moments.

At the test track, all this boiled down to an 8.4-second run to 60 mph in the Scion xD, compared to 9.0-second acceleration to 60 mph for the Fit.

Fuel economy laurels go to the 2007-model Fit, but just barely. At first the Fit's rating of 33 mpg city/38 highway seems to trounce the 2008-model Scion xD's estimated 27 city/33 highway. But

drfill

Has been sold in similar form in Japan since 2001, so it is really a 6-7 year old design.

Will Honda short-cycle it? 2010 is probably the earliest we'll see a redesign.

Toyota Yaris outsells Fit 2-1. :surprise:

DrFill

utherjorge

Is the Yaris a bigger seller because Toyota simply has more to sell? Where are the Yaris built? (tense change on purpose)

Dave Becker

bamacar

Both the Yaris and Fit are made in Japan. I have a Yaris and like it, but no doubt Honda could easily outsell the Yaris if they weren't limiting the import of the Fit to 3500 a year. Toyota has no constraints on Yaris production.

The article just about ignored the Fit's great advantage in handling, versatility, and nice shifter. It sure played up the xD's slight acceleration advantage, and Ipod compatibility. The exterior appearance and interior comments don't agree with any review anywhere. Neither the Fit or xD are lookers, but they are both okay looking. The Fit interior is nice quality; it is just missing a few features seen in newer designs.

No doubt, the xD has a number of nice qualities, but that review sure seemed written by someone out to cut the Fit down to size unlike the other dozen or more reviews written about the Fit.

nippononly

New Fit is coming as a 2009, next year. It will arrive in Japan earlier of course, so we will have six months to look on the Web at what the '09 will be before we can go out and get one.

Yaris is shooting for $14K sales and making its numbers that way, while Fit sells 2:1 Sport vs base model, which means it is selling much more at $16K. Two different philosophies, two different and successful ways to generate profits.

Then the xD will jump in to the fray, probably selling at exactly $14,995 (stick), $15,995 (automatic). Will it outsell the Fit in its first full year, despite being six years newer? Time will tell. We know how many Fits will sell: every one of the 35K Honda has allocated to the U.S. annually. And 35K is a little more than the old xA sold in its best year.

Me, I will be looking for Toyota to make good on its promise (well it wasn't a promise exactly, but more like a tentative suggestion) to sell the 5-door Yaris in the U.S., with a little more standard and optional content. That would probably sell around the $15K mark too, only it would have significantly better fuel economy than xD at the expense of acceleration speed. I wonder which would sell better? I think it would be the Yaris5...

ohplezz

Nippononly, do you think the fit will be a early release or a fall release? I check on TOV a lot but have not heard anything about the new fit. But about scion sales, I think just about any car will beat the scions in sales. Toyota does not seem to want to sell many of them. If they did their would be more of them on the lots at dealerships. I think the xD 5MT will come in at 1k less than the xB 5MT. Maybe even 1200 less due to less standard equipment on the little D.

nippononly

Well, $1200 less than the xB would be $15,030. I think you're right on about price! ;-)

As for the '09 Fit, I think it will be a spring release in Japan, and we will get it just before Christmas next year, but don't quote me. Honda is mum as usual.

I am just hoping they allocate more Fits to the U.S. in the next model run.

Scion, of course, wants to limit total sales to 200K per year. With the tC selling over a third, we will have to see how the sales mix shakes out between the the new xB and the xD. I am sure Toyota could sell a lot more than 35K xDs per year if the demand were there.

eldaino

yeah, it has a very strong overtone of someone who was tired of the rave reviews the fit has been getting. And even then, it was never like "the xd completely decimates the fit" which say WORLDS about the genius of the fits 6 year old design.

and yeah, they totally downplayed its attributes (i.e.handling, shifter) and with regards to the interior, sorry, the xd being as new as it is SHOULD have a nicer interior, and even then i bet its only slightly; the fit has had a hold on nicest interior in its class for awhile.

With regards to the ipod compatiability...the fit has an aux jack, which is the same thing! and if you don't have an ipod, you can still hook up your mp3 player, just because it doesn't say 'ipod' on it like the xd makes no difference. If the xd's connection is in fact ipod specific, it sucks for those who don't have one. If it has a second jack for other mp3's its unneccesary and the fit already has it covered.

drfill

I wouldn't hold my breathe on a 5-door Yaris, as the Matrix, or Blade, will hit that market well.

Honda doesn't have a Matrix-type vehicle, so they can push a 5-door at that price without cannibalizing sales.

Maybe that new engine technology Toyota is going to use will come out in the Toyota Blade next year, with a 2.0? :confuse:

DrFill

mcmanus

I've not seen an xD, but have driven a friend's Fit Sport. Smart looking/design (except for headlight bulb replacement is through the wheel well :sick: ), good handling/shifter, but it was soooooo slow. (And I've owned more 2.0L and smaller engines than above 2.0L.)

nwng

there are quite a few canadian license plate cars roaming the streets of boston. I've seen at least a handful of yaris 5 doors, am wondering if it's a big seller up north. Does Canada gets the xD as well? If they do, does yota worry about competition?

nippononly

get Scion, or is it U.S. only? I have a feeling it is only for the States.

The Yaris 5-door is always the most popular Yaris configuration north of the border. That's why it stinks that we can't have it down here, as similar as the automotive regulations are between the two countries.

Doc: the Matrix/Blade will be the next size up, using the next-size-up engine. I would imagine the Blade and Matrix will run pretty close to $20 grand at base price too, where the Yaris5 could come in around $15K.

ohplezz

This is America. Station wagons are not really cared for here by the majority of people. The folks who will respond to this post with anger are the exception. :P

jaxs1

Most cars of the size and class of the xD have pretty weak air conditioners to save cost and not overwhelm the little engine and to keep up the mpgs.

Has anyone driven an xD in temperatures over 100 degrees?
Is it any good?

nippononly

It's not available to the public until August. The initial reviews are all from the press.

jaxs1

August? I guess the first owners will find out pretty fast if the a/c performance is adequate.

ohplezz

All of the reviews by the press thus far have been fluff pieces. No real reviews yet..

mcmanus

Well I rented a Corolla for a month while my car was in the body shop and it was OK with A/C and automatic transmission.

1.5L engines shouldn't be put in modern (read heavier) cars with automatic transmissions. The difference jumping up to a 1.8L is significant (25 - 30% increase in power).

The Aussies get a 5 door Corolla, but fat chance it'll ever show up in the U.S.

With the expected $3000 difference in MSRP between Corolla and xD, the Corolla better be much better equipped and/or more luxurious. I'd vote for a more solid feel and smooth engine/ride, like my '89 Camry (that averaged 35 mpg in rural/highway driving). OTOH the xD would seem to offer every feature I want in a small car.